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Pick posted:Sven is the reindeer I know, but the in the original Snow Queen story the robber girl gives Gerda a reindeer who knows the way to Snow Queen's palace. In Frozen Anna meets Kristoff (and his sidekick reindeer) who knows the way to the North Mountain. So instead of a talking reindeer, we get a dude who occasionally does voice-overs for his reindeer pal. I don't think the robber girl herself is represented in Frozen in any form. mousku fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Nov 21, 2013 |
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Nov 21, 2013 18:50
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The creators said Kristoff is based on the robber girl. That's why Tumblr got mad at them taking a female character out of the film.
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Nov 21, 2013 22:21
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Pick posted:The creators said Kristoff is based on the robber girl. That's why Tumblr got mad at them taking a female character out of the film. Jesus. My sister is all grumpy about this movie, and boom, that'd be why
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Nov 21, 2013 22:32
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Pick posted:The creators said Kristoff is based on the robber girl. That's why Tumblr got mad at them taking a female character out of the film.
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Nov 21, 2013 22:50
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I'm echoing others when they say that interest in this is definitely higher than it would have been otherwise, were it not for the delightful surprise that was Tangled. I also realise that even if I do not enjoy Frozen as a story it certainly looks like it'll be a delight to watch in action anyway. The animation we've seen so far looks lovely, and I'm a sucker for ice/snow and watery visuals already. Olaf... I know I'm coming at this from an almost pretentious place but I'm still mostly wary of the character. I'll try and go in without a mindset of "nope, gotta hate this guy" though. As mentioned, Princess and the Frog's Ray was a far more enjoyable character than the previews led him to be, and this could be the same for Olaf. (I also admit I snickered at the 'you paused' joke in one of the trailers. Sorry.) The more personal thing though is that it's just so nice to see more stuff that focuses on female relationships. It's a really reassuring trend to see. I at least hope it is an indicator of other such female focused stories. This is a huge reason Lilo and Stitch is one of my favourite Disney films. If this story of sisters can be just as honest and relatable as Lilo's and Nani's, then I'm all for it. I'm there.
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Nov 22, 2013 00:05
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Pick posted:The creators said Kristoff is based on the robber girl. That's why Tumblr got mad at them taking a female character out of the film. TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Jesus. My sister is all grumpy about this movie, and boom, that'd be why I don't think the creators explicitly mentioned Kristoff as an analogue to the robber girl. They've actually tried to distance themselves from the original fairy tale, saying that they were only inspired by it and it is its own story now. (I happen to think it is more faithful than it appears at first glance) Yes, Tumblr have been very annoyed though for the lack of female supporting characters (complaints here may be justified) and for turning a female centred story into a male one (complaints are bullshit). And TheBigBudgetSequel, there have been many critics who have been praising the film on feminist grounds. mousku posted:Oh, okay. I recall seeing some theories on why the robber girl was removed. One was that because Tangled had the thugs, the creators were afraid of seeming repetitive. The reason was probably that the source material was very episodic and the creators probably believed that they needed supporting characters with a more consistent presence, hence the whole-scale changes. Qindarka fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 01:48
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Qindarka posted:The reason was probably that the source material was very episodic and the creators probably believed that they needed supporting characters with a more consistent presence, hence the whole-scale changes. Yeah, I really have no idea how a faithful adaptation of Anderson's Snow Queen could have ever possibly worked as a film, let alone a Disney musical. It really is for the best that they've abandoned everything except having snow and maybe a queen. It seems kind of the inverse of Tangled, which kept the core of the Rapunzel premise (girl, tower, hair) and added a bunch of new stuff to it. Frozen looks to just incorporate some of the peripheral trappings (ice, castle, reindeer) while completely changing the main characters and plot. Sort of makes sense in that respect to change the title, similar to the reasoning of how There Will Be Blood wasn't a close enough adaptation of Oil! to justify keeping the name.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:45
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Robber Girl looks awesome this guy looks utterly generic and boring, lame.
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Nov 22, 2013 02:56
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P-Mack posted:Yeah, I really have no idea how a faithful adaptation of Anderson's Snow Queen could have ever possibly worked as a film, let alone a Disney musical. It really is for the best that they've abandoned everything except having snow and maybe a queen. There are pretty significant similarities. The obvious one would be that both stories centre around the protagonist going off on a journey to rescue their loved one. Also, some thematic similarities in regards to childhood. The original fairy tale is essentially a celebration of childhood, with Gerda's pure-hearted, innocent love leading to salvation. Kai's corruption, induced by the mirror shard, is also a metaphor for puberty, how people are change for the worse as they grow up. Some lines from the source: quote:The grandmother sat in the bright sunshine, and read aloud from the Bible: "Unless ye become as little children, ye cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." quote:There sat the two grown-up persons; grown-up, and yet children; children at least in heart; and it was summer-time; summer, glorious summer! Not that major SPOILERS for Frozen, it covers information from the first act only, but I'll tag it just in case: Frozen also essentially celebrates these childhood bonds, of Anna and Elsa. Olaf is a significant part of this, he was originally an inanimate snowman created when they were playing together. Anna's injury then leads to a premature ending of childhood, there is a visual whereby the snowman crumbles after Anna is hurt. Elsa then shies away from her emotions and her relationship with her sister, she is trying to 'grow up', to be more 'mature'. Later on in the film, amid Elsa's self-imposed isolation and her embrace of her powers, amid her majestic creations, she inadvertently recreates Olaf, his crude form being a representation of her childhood and her bond with her sister, a sign that she has not forgotten. I'm sure some of you guys will be able to articulate this better after watching the film. On another point, continuing on with the feminist discussion, it's worth noting that the source material really isn't all that progressive. Yes, there are plenty of female supporting characters which is commendable but they are either antagonists or exist purely to help Gerda along her way. Also, Kai's corruption being a metaphor for puberty, the message is that only the love of a woman will be able to change a man's negative traits. And then there is the portrayal of the empowered woman as being literally cold. Anyway, five tracks from the score have been shared here: http://waltdisneystudiosawards.com/#/frozen/music Qindarka fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 22, 2013 |
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Nov 22, 2013 03:15
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I've heard people say that he doesn't, but I'm still really holding out hope that Olaf dies. Not because I dislike him; no, I think he's a perfectly fine character. Just because with his whole love affair with summer, it seems like the only reasonable non-copout resolution to his character arc.
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Nov 22, 2013 03:36
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I've heard people say that he doesn't, but I'm still really holding out hope that Olaf dies. Not because I dislike him; no, I think he's a perfectly fine character. Just because with his whole love affair with summer, it seems like the only reasonable non-copout resolution to his character arc. I really don't think the comic relief character is going to die in a Disney movie. There have been pieces of merchandise already released with him with sunglasses on, chilling in the sun. So there will be some magic whatever that makes him not melt when the rest of the world warms up, and he'll just be hanging out in a hammock or by a pool or something in the end. Unrelated, but what is up with the vague one word movie titles that Disney is putting out these days, like Brave, Tangled, Frozen? Did their test groups say that they hate titles like "The Princess and the Frog"? If that were made today, it would be called "Croak". Little Mermaid would be "Gills", Pinocchio would be "Strings", Aladdin would be "Lamp", Hercules would be "Hero", 101 Dalmations would be "Spots". They still have their original names internationally, but I guess Americans are too weird to go to a movie with someone's name in the title.
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Nov 22, 2013 07:22
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Fish Of Doom posted:I really don't think the comic relief character is going to die in a Disney movie. All the comparisons to Ray kinda mess up that assertion, though. I mean, think about it: they're both comic relief characters in love with something they don't seem to totally understand, and that logically requires their death to attain.
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Nov 22, 2013 07:25
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I'd not expect them to stick close to the original story regardless of what they're adapting. It's not just Tangled that's been that way, Disney fairy tale movies have often played really fast and loose with the stories--Little Mermaid, Mulan, what have you. Hercules is probably the most glaring example.
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Nov 22, 2013 14:29
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Yeah, to be honest I don't care at all how close a Disney movie is to its original product, only how good it is as its own product. It's not like the original text of The Snow Queen is going to burst into flames, lost to time, once this comes out.
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Nov 22, 2013 16:47
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It really depends. Little Mermaid for example has its charms, but if you go just one level beneath the subtext then you get a pretty weird story to be delivering to children. The original story might be dark, but the film is gross. Pocahontas is also a pretty troubling film, but a lot of that has more to do with the stereotyping of Native Americans as magical tree people than its deviations from who Pocahontas actually was. Then there is stuff like Hunchback of Notre-Dame or The Fox and the Hound where it's baffling why they would ever want to adapt those pieces into children's films. It's not a matter of right or wrong, and I like The Fox and the Hound, but I just can't fathom how those adaptations came to be.
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Nov 22, 2013 18:43
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Timeless Appeal posted:Then there is stuff like Hunchback of Notre-Dame or The Fox and the Hound where it's baffling why they would ever want to adapt those pieces into children's films. It's not a matter of right or wrong, and I like The Fox and the Hound, but I just can't fathom how those adaptations came to be. Bambi was honestly an odd choice too. It goes back a ways.
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Nov 24, 2013 07:44
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The Little Mermaid was chosen, if I remember correctly, because Walt had originally wanted to adapt it very early on but never found a way to make it work. So when Disney was floundering in the '80s and looking back to capture the original magic, they started looking back to "what Walt would have done" and picked that. (A number of the changes, including the ending, dated back to the original Walt Disney-supervised script.) They probably should have considered that the whole sell-your-soul-for-a-man thing wouldn't play all that well post-second wave, but--as a woman--I've always found the idea that Eric wanted a woman for her voice rather than her looks to be a really positive, interesting metaphor that feminist critiques of the movie largely ignore. Ariel looked like the woman Eric wanted, but he would rather have the woman with the voice than the looks. It seems like Disney is moving further in the direction of "inspired by fairytales" rather than more closely adapting them--this one, Tangled, The Princess and the Frog, even going back to Lilo & Stitch with its nods to "The Ugly Duckling"--all seem to take not much more than the premise. It doesn't bug me that they're changing the stories--I had a pretty bastardized book version of The Snow Queen as a kid, so it's not like Disney is the first one to do this.
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Nov 24, 2013 08:44
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aslan posted:The Little Mermaid was chosen, if I remember correctly, because Walt had originally wanted to adapt it very early on but never found a way to make it work. So when Disney was floundering in the '80s and looking back to capture the original magic, they started looking back to "what Walt would have done" and picked that. (A number of the changes, including the ending, dated back to the original Walt Disney-supervised script.) They probably should have considered that the whole sell-your-soul-for-a-man thing wouldn't play all that well post-second wave, but--as a woman--I've always found the idea that Eric wanted a woman for her voice rather than her looks to be a really positive, interesting metaphor that feminist critiques of the movie largely ignore. Ariel looked like the woman Eric wanted, but he would rather have the woman with the voice than the looks. It's also kind of cool that a man insists on marrying a woman because she saved his life, and not the other way around. Although it's still not exactly the most feminist movie. e: autocorrect typo! mareep fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 17:01
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Well, the movie does stick up for a woman's right of choice and her freedom from her father being endorsed can be seen as progressive. Ariel perhaps does focus a bit too much on Eric though, despite wanting to live on land before she met him. And the movie doesn't encourage giving up her voice, it is presented as being a bad deal and when she does finally get together with Eric, it is not a by-product of the agreement with Ursula.
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Nov 24, 2013 17:40
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Yeah, it really grates on me when people present quotes from Poor Unfortunate Souls as examples of how TLM is antifeminist.
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Nov 24, 2013 18:52
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Qindarka posted:Well, the movie does stick up for a woman's right of choice and her freedom from her father being endorsed can be seen as progressive. Ariel perhaps does focus a bit too much on Eric though, despite wanting to live on land before she met him. And if you REALLY want to get into Disney movies with hellish development, look no further than the Emperor's New Groove - it was meant to be a hugely spectacular and epic musical adaptation of The Prince and the Pauper set in ancient South America, and then it got absolutely loving gutted. ENG was saved by the skin of its teeth and has become a quirky classic based ENTIRELY on the heroic efforts of the writing team and the performances of the cast. Goodness knows the cobbled-together animation wasn't anything special, but I've heard ENG quoted more often than ANY other Disney movie. "Why do we even HAVE that lever?" In many ways, The Emperor's New Groove is the polar opposite of Sleeping Beauty - SB was a gorgeously-animated movie with a piss-poor plot and characters (never joined Maleficent's fan club, sorry I'm not sorry), whereas ENG was an okay-animated but ridiculously hilarious film. And maybe it's just me, but I've noticed that the Disney films after Enchanted have been a little more self-aware, and there's a lot more snarky, deadpan humour in them which I've really liked. Princess and the Frog showed a complete awareness of the Frog Prince source material and explicitly joked about it, while Tangled had some pretty killer lines ("You broke my smoulder") and some of the BEST animated sidekicks in Disney's history. I haven't written off Olaf and Sven because I'm still hoarding goodwill points from Pascal and Maximus.
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Nov 24, 2013 19:10
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AnimeJune posted:and some of the BEST animated sidekicks in Disney's history. I object; I thought the multitude of sidekicks were Tangled's most obvious weak point. 
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Nov 24, 2013 19:18
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I LOVE Enchanted. I loving adore that movie.
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Nov 24, 2013 19:23
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I object; I thought the multitude of sidekicks were Tangled's most obvious weak point. I … I can't tell if you're being ironic or not. For my money, I thought they were used incredibly effectively. And maybe it's unfair to judge Olaf and Sven by that same measure since probably the best aspect of Tangled's sidekicks were that they were silent. Physical comedy (and Pascal's  face) at its finest. Macaluso: Oh HELL yes. Watching it in theatres sent me rocketing back ten years to when I saw Beauty and the Beast in theatres. It was elaborate and funny but also had such great low-key touches - Patrick Dempsey can't sing for poo poo but that one time he tries to speak-sing during "So Close" was amazing. If I had any niggle with Enchanted is was only that Idina Menzel didn't sing (like seriously her presence in that movie was like hiring Elton John to do the balloon animals at your piano party) and that James Marsden didn't sing enough. My God, his voice.  Make him the hero in Disney's next musical and give him a solo, dammit!
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Nov 24, 2013 19:47
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Pascal was my least favorite; he contributed nothing to the plot, detracted from the tragedy of Rapunzel being locked in a tower alone for her entire life, didn't fit into the story, and worst of all I didn't think he was funny. Maximus helped to establish Flynn's infamy, and his gimmick was pretty funny, if unfitting, but most of the time spent with him was filler and could have been cut. The thugs from the bar were the best; they got a decent musical number and fit in well, but I still thought that their showing up in the climax was a distractingly obvious and unnecessary payoff, but I probably wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't already think the movie was overloaded with sidekicks. To be fair, I've thought this was a weakness in many Disney films. I swear The Little Mermaid would have been a substantially better movie if Flounder and the seagull were cut.
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Nov 24, 2013 20:01
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LaughMyselfTo posted:Pascal was my least favorite I stopped reading after this. Pascal is the very representation of Rapunzel's end goal; someone who can blend in with the rest of the world and is able to live freely outside of the tower. Ever stop to think about that Pascal was simply being a good friend that helped keep Rapunzel sane by letting her dress him up in little chameleon sized outfits?
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Nov 24, 2013 21:01
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teagone posted:I stopped reading after this. Pascal is the very representation of Rapunzel's end goal; someone who can blend in with the rest of the world and is able to live freely outside of the tower. Ever stop to think about that Pascal was simply being a good friend that helped keep Rapunzel sane by letting her dress him up in little chameleon sized outfits? That's why I've always personally enjoyed the Second Golden Age Disney flicks over the older classics. I still enjoy Snow White and Cinderella (Sleeping Beauty can fall down a well, thanks), but in all three of those movies, the sidekicks ran the whole show while the princesses stayed put in the background. The dwarves, the mice, and the those ridiculously annoying fairies were the real protagonists of those movies. The Little Mermaid and the movies that followed established a better balance, IMO - the sidekicks were there to be cute, lighten the mood, and support the protagonists, but it was up to the heroine to propel the actual story.
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Nov 24, 2013 21:38
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While I grant you it doesn't send a good message about the princess herself, I love the mice from Cinderella and would be quite happy with a movie about a bunch of mice cleverly and valiantly trying to do (something) in a house with a cat named Lucifer. 
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Nov 24, 2013 21:40
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teagone posted:Ever stop to think about that Pascal was simply being a good friend that helped keep Rapunzel sane I think giving Rapunzel a friend to keep her sane was a cop-out.
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Nov 24, 2013 21:59
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LaughMyselfTo posted:I think giving Rapunzel a friend to keep her sane was a cop-out. Secondly, one of the themes of Tangled that differs from the original fairy tale is Rapunzel's choice to leave the tower or return to it. In the fairy tale, she was locked up in the tower and couldn't leave of her own free will and considered herself a prisoner. In the film, she is fully capable of leaving the tower on her own but has remained there thanks to Mother Gothel's emotional manipulation and scary stories. Having a friend in Pascal gives credence to the idea that Rapunzel could be content and safe - if not happy or fulfilled - if she stayed in the tower, which contrasts with the idea of going out into the exciting real world that is also scary and uncertain. At the same time, Pascal is not a human and can't talk - so even though he's friendly and communicative, there are definite limits to the extent of how much he can communicate with Rapunzel which demonstrates how Rapunzel is still missing out on a lot of social interaction in her tower. And as Teagone indicated, we do need a narrative explanation for Rapunzel being relatively well-adjusted and not a tower-bound version of Nell.
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Nov 24, 2013 23:34
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AnimeJune posted:Firstly, how dark did you really expect Disney to go with Rapunzel? Were you expecting a musical animated version of Oldboy?
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Nov 25, 2013 01:49
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This thread is making me wonder why we don't have a dedicated Disney Animation thread. Edit: VVVThanksVV BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 02:30
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BigRed0427 posted:This thread is making me wonder why we don't have a dedicated Disney Animation thread. We have a dedicated animation thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3326621
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Nov 25, 2013 02:44
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Pascal performs the helpful task of being there in the Tower so Rapunzel has someone to interact with. "Boy, I sure do hate living in this tower", she says to no one in particular. Same with the gargoyles in Hunchback, they're there to give protagonists who are supposed to be isolated someone to talk to so we can get a sense for their character without just watching somebody monologue about how sad they are.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:45
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Pascal is also pretty low-key for a sidekick; there are huge sections you don't see him at all (heh). I wanted a dedicated Frozen thread because I am psyched for this movie.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:54
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Pick posted:Pascal is also pretty low-key for a sidekick; there are huge sections you don't see him at all (heh). The poison for Kuzco, Kuzco's poison. That poison? What I wish I could do was find the old Enchanted and Tangled threads for Something Awful but I can't find them in the archives.
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Nov 25, 2013 04:22
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The soundtrack was released in full for some reason. There's an Arrested Development joke in one, I think  . Some people are posting about it (I don't have the ST personally at this time).e: The clip of Olaf singing has leaked. It's... kind of charming .
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Nov 25, 2013 06:21
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Pick posted:The soundtrack was released in full for some reason. There's an Arrested Development joke in one, I think Awww. That's a good sign! I won't be listening to the soundtrack until I see the movie first. Never have. It always feels like peeking at Christmas presents for some reason.
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Nov 25, 2013 14:22
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Macaluso posted:We have a dedicated animation thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3326621
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Nov 25, 2013 15:22
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AnimeJune posted:Awww. That's a good sign! It's like... vaguely sinister, or it should be, but it kind of isn't at the same time? Definitely, definitely reminds me of Ray.
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Nov 25, 2013 16:15
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