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I'm gonna post scans of the characters as they join Grandma's party. So here's Serge. 
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Sep 6, 2020 08:07
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McNally posted:Chrono Cross: Terrible story, amazing soundtrack. That's one of the most frustrating things about this game to me. The gorgeous settings and amazing music playing in the background make me want to like this game so much. Moments like this, when the wistful music kicks in on the beach, or you arrive in Another World and that overworld music starts playing, they feel like they should be really deep and emotional and significant... but then they're just not. They never pay off since the story doesn't play out in any satisfying way and the characters have no real interaction or significance to each other. Drives me loving insane.
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Sep 6, 2020 08:09
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The music manages to get to me, regardless. Can't really explain why.Dirt Road Junglist posted:I'm gonna post scans of the characters as they join Grandma's party. Please do. I haven't seen this strategy guide since I was a kid.
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Sep 6, 2020 08:27
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DeTosh posted:The music manages to get to me, regardless. Can't really explain why.
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Sep 6, 2020 09:12
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Solitair posted:This is what happens when Home Opinion collides with Another Opinion. I was talking more about the stat increases. Stars is universal! And yeah, I've changed the mix level so the music is audible unlike older lps. Junglist, you are a treasure.
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Sep 6, 2020 13:39
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McNally posted:Chrono Cross: Terrible story, amazing soundtrack. Abysmal story, A few great songs, several good ones and the crime against humanity that is the regular battle theme.
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Sep 6, 2020 14:06
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Persona has nothing on the Trails games for being just turgid with content. Trails of Cold Steel 1 even has a Steam achievement (Trails in the Couch) for playing for 100+ hours; if you aren't actively avoiding the side stuff you'll pick that up late in Chapter 6 or early in Chapter 7. On topic why is that dog using caveman speak in addition to her dumb lisp? There are way less dumb ways to write a comedy speech disability and yet half the writers who try just default to this dumb nonsense. NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 02:19
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Sep 7, 2020 04:02
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The automatic accent generator was as a terrible idea as it sounds. It means most characters are literally an accent, with nothing else interesting about them.
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Sep 7, 2020 04:58
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Peachfart posted:The automatic accent generator was as a terrible idea as it sounds. It means most characters are literally an accent, with nothing else interesting about them. That's more a side effect of the sheer number of characters.
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Sep 7, 2020 05:06
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Sep 7, 2020 05:43
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Were the wacky accents present in the original, or were they an invention (or exaggeration) of the localization? I can't blame him for trying to give the many, many characters some kind of unique characterization with the accents. Of course, even if were done well, the accents are just a band-aid on the real issue: too many characters and not enough space to develop any of them. To attack the core of the problem, the team would need to trim more characters earlier in development and proceed with a smaller but denser roster.
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Sep 7, 2020 05:47
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Christ, even though I knew about the accent generator, I still almost went off on you for writing out an exaggerated Japanese accent, that’s how awful Poshul is. And the other big thing is that some characters come so late in the game that you basically get no chance of getting any characterization out of them unless you drag them along for a NG+. And it doesn’t help that most of the earliest members are the ones that actually have any plot significance to them... And some of them are only available on certain story paths. I get that they were experimenting with making an RPG with a massive cast of party members, but in retrospect, the story probably would have had a better chance of being salvageable if they had cut the number of recruitable characters at least in half.
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Sep 7, 2020 06:58
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Regalingualius posted:Christ, even though I knew about the accent generator, I still almost went off on you for writing out an exaggerated Japanese accent, that’s how awful Poshul is. This is making me want to look into Suikoden and see how they do it. I've never seen anyone complain about that game having too many characters, and they have more than twice what Chrono Cross has.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:16
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Holy poo poo, I was not prepared for a Bhagavad Gita reference in this thread, or on any part of SA for that matter. Thtunning work, my dude.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:23
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Solitair posted:This is making me want to look into Suikoden and see how they do it. I've never seen anyone complain about that game having too many characters, and they have more than twice what Chrono Cross has. And you, in turn, just reminded me of how Trails the 3rd had a final party that clocks in at somewhere around 20 that all have their own fully fleshed out stories... though I’ll concede that that’s because you’ve already had two games to get to see all but one of them in action already.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:37
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Regalingualius posted:Christ, even though I knew about the accent generator, I still almost went off on you for writing out an exaggerated Japanese accent, that’s how awful Poshul is.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:53
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Mizuti posted:Were the wacky accents present in the original, or were they an invention (or exaggeration) of the localization? Iirc, in the JPN script each character has a specific speech pattern* (like, whether they used atashi/watashi/boku/ore/their name/whatever, what particles they preferred, things like that) overlaid over a generic script. The accent generator was a modification of that that, uh, doesn't work as well as just changing what version of "I" someone uses. *Even in better-written games, this sort of thing doesn't translate very well to English to the point where often such nuance is flattened in translation unless care is taken to deal with that.
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Sep 7, 2020 08:54
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Mizuti posted:Of course, even if were done well, the accents are just a band-aid on the real issue: too many characters and not enough space to develop any of them. To attack the core of the problem, the team would need to trim more characters earlier in development and proceed with a smaller but denser roster. It might've worked with a stronger and visible divide of 'these are story characters' and 'these are random NPCs that aren't story that you can recruit if you want', and limit the former to five or six and really focus on them and don't waste time on the others. Just have them available if you really have an urge to play the game with a fat pink dog.
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Sep 7, 2020 10:26
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Solitair posted:This is making me want to look into Suikoden and see how they do it. I've never seen anyone complain about that game having too many characters, and they have more than twice what Chrono Cross has. They do it considerably better by doing 2 things. Double the active party size so that you can actually USE them. About 1/3 or 1/4 of them are non-combatants and purely support. Then there's 2 other indirectly useful things they do as well. Remember how Chrono Trigger was just loaded with combo attacks? Cross has like... 5. Not 5 per team pairing, just 5. Total. Suikoden games have quite a few Suikoden has a weighted leveling system like Symphony of the Night. 1000exp per level, but what you get per fight is based on the differences between your level and the enemy. So as long as you can keep a really weak character alive at the end of a hard fight, they'll gain huge. As in, someone at level 5 or something could get to level 99 against a single final dungeon trash mob.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:21
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God I am #blessed. Thank you both for these awful things. I think after we unlock some more characters I'll expand the fan art. I hate that stupid clown skeleton. FeyerbrandX posted:They do it considerably better by doing 2 things. They also have some characterization in that they do things outside of your party. The gardener is growing crops on the roof. Pahn is hanging out with Cleo and the empire guys are hanging out together. It may be only a short couple of snippets but they're doing something, which really adds to who they are. I played through Suikoden with Katherine within the past 3 years otherwise I would have TOTALLY done a VLP of suikoden.
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Sep 7, 2020 15:50
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Its truly telling when Pahn saying "When's dinner" 96% of the game is more characterization than most of the cast of Cross combined. Also Suikoden 2 has a stage in the castle that randomly has Kobold dancing.
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Sep 7, 2020 17:16
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Those mostly connected or adjacent to main plot in Suikoden get some things. I couldn't even tell you who the armorer is in the first game because "is an armorer" is all the character they get. The series gets way better about it as things go along both from better recruitment and things like the detective. By 5 the armorer is a staunch patriot who's honest and fair in all his dealings and working to better provide quality armor to the troops at the best prices possible.
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Sep 7, 2020 19:49
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FeyerbrandX posted:Remember how Chrono Trigger was just loaded with combo attacks? Cross has like... 5. Not 5 per team pairing, just 5. Total. Suikoden games have quite a few This is my biggest bummer regarding the Chrono Cross roster. I'm actually not as down on the game's story as most people in the thread are, but now that I'm familiar with Chrono Trigger it's easy to miss a lot of gameplay elements that were dropped in the transition to Cross.
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Sep 7, 2020 20:51
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Hell, they could have phoned it in slightly less in that regard by just making double/triple techs only require the characters in question to have a certain combination of innate elements to be useable, and not just combinations of specific characters.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:26
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Some of the triple techs involve a combination excluding Serge, who cant be removed from the party until New Game +. Also I will die on the hill of this game being good actually, both ironically and unironically
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Sep 8, 2020 02:38
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I really do sincerely love the music and visuals for a lot of the game, even if I think the story is a hot mess overall.
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Sep 8, 2020 03:05
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Danaru posted:Some of the triple techs involve a combination excluding Serge, who cant be removed from the party until New Game +. You're misremembering a bit. There are only 2 triple techs and both involve Serge, though you're right that one of them can't be done until New Game + (you need Sprigg to have the Dopplegang from a NG+ only boss).
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Sep 8, 2020 03:33
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One big thing I like about this game that I don't think any other turn based RPG does is that you can run away from any fight with 100% success, even the final boss. The only drawback is that some bosses will immediately draw you back in.
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Sep 8, 2020 04:36
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Running away is for cowards and people who don't want poshul or their weird skeleton to be buff as hell.
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Sep 8, 2020 04:47
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GrandmaParty posted:Running away is for cowards and people who don't want poshul or their weird skeleton to be buff as hell. I suddenly want to make fanart of the voodoo straw doll, but yoked //EDIT: I realize I already did this with Garfield for your Discord, so sorry for being repetitive.
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Sep 8, 2020 06:47
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Danaru posted:Also I will die on the hill of this game being good actually, both ironically and unironically E: the ending condition is absolute bullshit, though. Fionordequester posted:Really, the game's biggest crime, for me, is killing off the heroes of the last game. Reminds me of the Star Wars Sequel trilogy, where Han & Leia got divorced, their son became an angsty jerk, Luke ended up alone and miserable, the Emperor lived, and the Empire came back with a new name.
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Sep 8, 2020 07:57
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I actually do like the concept of a sequel that explored the larger ramifications of the time travel from CT, and the horror vibes from having an avatar of the people who were inadvertently erased from the timeline who are fully aware of their predicament. This... Just wasn’t the game to execute that potential very well. And then there’s the stuff that’s just indefensibly dumb, like everything involving the dwarves when they pop up. Or how half the plot happened because some dumbasses accidentally locked themselves out of their office.
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Sep 8, 2020 08:33
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Regalingualius posted:And then there’s the stuff that’s just indefensibly dumb, like everything involving the dwarves when they pop up. Or how half the plot happened because some dumbasses accidentally locked themselves out of their office. This post gave me a vision of Chrono Cross with Idiot Doom Spiral as the main character, and it seems like it would be a lot more entertaining.
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Sep 8, 2020 08:55
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I've held the belief that this game is really good and compelling right up until you explore the Dead Sea. Then the game drops off a cliff into convolution. I should really play the game again and confirm this.
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Sep 8, 2020 14:39
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FeyerbrandX posted:Suikoden has a weighted leveling system like Symphony of the Night. 1000exp per level, but what you get per fight is based on the differences between your level and the enemy. So as long as you can keep a really weak character alive at the end of a hard fight, they'll gain huge. As in, someone at level 5 or something could get to level 99 against a single final dungeon trash mob.
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Sep 8, 2020 16:13
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I think the big beefy stat ups after beating a boss are silently carried on through the nonactive party (if this includes characters yeeted from the party completely and not just actively chosen to not participate I have no idea.) But yeah those (completely random and not even guaranteed) trickles after a boss? pretty sure those are just the active party.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:41
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Commander Keene posted:Yeah, I like this game, and I just finished a playthrough in like June, so it's probably not nostalgia. There's a good, if somewhat flawed, game in there. Probably would've been better received if it hadn't been billed as a sequel to CT, though. They probably could have gotten away with the older heroes being dead if they said the heroes had died peacefully of old age rather than have them lose to a joke of a boss like F***ing Dalton, but what they did to Robo was just inexcusable.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:23
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megamariox posted:They probably could have gotten away with the older heroes being dead if they said the heroes had died peacefully of old age rather than have them lose to a joke of a boss like F***ing Dalton, but what they did to Robo was just inexcusable. I want to tell myself "At least Ayla and Frog were fine because they were too far back in history to have the need to shove under a bus for drama" but I don't think I've played this since the year it was released. So who knows, maybe I was just to dumb to grasp that certain derivative party members were a sign things were horrible for them too.
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Sep 9, 2020 00:18
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We do get something that hints at Ayla, but it's cute as a button and has the highest strength stat in the game.
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Sep 9, 2020 00:31
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