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cubicle gangster posted:Wait, what? Isnt hysterical pretty much exactly what she was, screaming in grief and a wreck? 'Hysterical/hysteria' is a term historically applied to women that posits their actions and emotions as less-than or beneath male reason due to their possession of a hustera, a uterus or womb. It is a term that has been used endlessly to demean women, their motivations/feelings, the legitimacy of the female perspective, and to tamp down on female agency. In more 'sophisticated' times women were expected to wear clothing that constricted breathing and conform to rigid social codes of attitude and behavior. When a woman got abrasive or emotional, or hell simply involved in just about...well anything....she was encouraged to take opiates to calm her hysteria (womb-ness) and regulate her shallow breathing until a more acceptable level of behavior was reestablished.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:39
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It's a little bit sillier. Before we knew everything about what went on inside the body, a diagnosis of hysteria was basically the doctor saying that a woman is acting crazy because her womb was moving around inside her body and it was in the wrong place.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:43
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Is every word that used to mean something different back in 1850 now not allowed to re-appropriated to mean something else? That was 170 years ago, I just read that in 1880 it was fully being used to add emphasis to something funny. I dont think there's a single person left alive on the planet from when that definition meant what it did, I cant see why thats been dug back up. Would anyone using it today know it had that connotation if bored english majors hadnt decided to try telling people that actually they shouldnt be using it? cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 01:44
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cubicle gangster posted:Is every word that used to mean something different back in 1850 now not allowed to re-appropriated to mean something else? That was 170 years ago. I dont think there's a single person left alive on the planet from when that definition meant what it did. Are you trying to say that no one uses hysterical as an attack against women because holy poo poo...
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Jun 14, 2018 01:45
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In the exact context of a woman freaking out in a way that would be handwaved away at the time it was in popular usage, yeah I’d have to admit it’s one to avoid. And I’m usually not all that picky about phrasing.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:47
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cubicle gangster posted:Is every word that used to mean something different back in 1850 now not allowed to re-appropriated to mean something else? That was 170 years ago. I dont think there's a single person left alive on the planet from when that definition meant what it did. Are you of the opinion that the struggle for women's rights...ended...at some point?
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Jun 14, 2018 01:47
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Anyways, I wasn't trying to start a 'thing', sorry thread.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:48
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What does the struggle for womens rights have to do with that? I was not aware people used that meaning in a modern sense, no. Sorry for starting a derail but apparently recently people decided it was a bad word again - and as such, people have been using it as a bad word again? i did not get the memo.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:49
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There are literally a million ways (grief stricken, dolorous, heartbroken, bereaved, unbridled, loving whatever) to describe Freya losing her son that aren't "hysterical".
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Jun 14, 2018 01:52
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cubicle gangster posted:What does the struggle for womens rights have to do with that? I was not aware people used that meaning in a modern sense, no. This is a constant and extremely public discussion in politics and the media so gently caress off with this.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:54
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JBP posted:There are literally a million ways (grief stricken, dolorous, heartbroken, bereaved, unbridled, loving whatever) to describe Freya losing her son that aren't "hysterical". That's irrelevant to what this was about. As far as i've been alive that's also what hysterical was for - and not in a negative way. It also describes a very specific type of grief. Take it up with merriam webster. Not everyone follows what i presume is american politics.
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Jun 14, 2018 01:55
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cubicle gangster posted:What does the struggle for womens rights have to do with that? I was not aware people used that word in a modern sense, no. "Hysteria" was the actual diagnosis that was given to women who were difficult or unhappy or rebellious or otherwise didn't fit the model of how a woman was expected to behave, thus blaming them for the systemic oppression that they were responding to. This may no longer happen literally, but gaslighting women and blaming them for their response is still a very modern thing (imagine the dumbass who blithely claims all his exes are "crazy"). There was a 2011 movie starring Maggie Gyllenhaal on this topic, it is called "Hysteria". Here have a wikipedia while we're at it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria#Modern_implications_and_feminist_theory cubicle gangster posted:That's irrelevant to what this was about. As far as i've been alive that's also what hysterical was for - and not in a negative way. It also describes a very specific type of grief. Take it up with merriam webster. Not everyone follows what i presume is american politics. You're responding defensively, like someone who compares a black person to an ape without realizing how offensive that is due to historical context. You should take this as an opportunity to learn something. acksplode fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 01:56
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acksplode posted:You're responding defensively, like someone who compares a black person to an ape without realizing how offensive that is due to historical context. You should take this as an opportunity to learn something. To one person, who has told me to 'gently caress off' and came in very hot. thanks for the wikipedia link.
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Jun 14, 2018 02:01
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cubicle gangster posted:That's irrelevant to what this was about. As far as i've been alive that's also what hysterical was for - and not in a negative way. It also describes a very specific type of grief. Take it up with merriam webster. Not everyone follows what i presume is american politics. It's more of an Enlightenment thing, actually. So like, a term that consistently represents certain aspects of the subjugation of women over at least the last 400 years.
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Jun 14, 2018 02:03
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cubicle gangster posted:That's irrelevant to what this was about. As far as i've been alive that's also what hysterical was for - and not in a negative way. It also describes a very specific type of grief. Take it up with merriam webster. Not everyone follows what i presume is american politics. American... politics... cubicle gangster posted:What does the struggle for womens rights have to do with that? I was not aware people used that meaning in a modern sense, no. cubicle gangster posted:That is a new one for me. I've only ever heard the word used when rarely a man but usually a woman is in a complete emotional wreck, almost always within the context of a recently deceased child. ie: 'it was upsetting, he/she was in complete hysterics' cubicle gangster posted:To one person, who has told me to 'gently caress off' and came in very hot. cubicle gangster posted:Is every word that used to mean something different back in 1850 now not allowed to re-appropriated to mean something else? That was 170 years ago, I just read that in 1880 it was fully being used to add emphasis to something funny. These are the posts of someone bullishly trying to push through what they're being told with "but what isn't banned these days" horseshit. JBP fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 02:08
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Nobody even used the word 'hysterical' except for you, BeanpolePeckerwood, saying several pages ago that other people calling her that is condescending- something that nobody had done at the time edit: Actually, one page further back nopantsjack used the word 'hysterical' in the context of being driven to anger and despair, so take that as you will
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Jun 14, 2018 02:09
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i think I did describe her reaction as hysterical but purposefully and sardonically as I thought her reaction was a bit of dodgy gendered characterisation. I think she's a well realised character but at the end of the day in that scene she is a crazy mum whose maternal instincts override her good sense. If someone had done it to Atreus Kratos woulda gone mad too but A) Atreus isn't an insane maniac and B) Kratos would have attacked them, rather than be magically banned from acting with agency in that scene. I think its a bit of a shame since she is legit the only woman in the game with a speaking part (bar a line or two from the valks) and her whole deal is she ruined her sons life by being overprotective and is magically incapable of fighting. The only other woman is dead before the game begins, despite how much the game tries to assure us of how cool and fleshed out she was. It still handles this stuff better than most games but it makes me raise my eyebrow when I see articles about how well the game handled Faye and Freya. My GF really liked the game which absolutely would not have happened with the previous GoWs but she (and I) were still wondering every time they were like "man, Faye was seriously cool, huh?" if she would ever show up and Baldrs death left us both feeling like it was a pretty dumb scene.
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Jun 14, 2018 02:10
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cubicle gangster posted:To one person, who has told me to 'gently caress off' and came in very hot. I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal attack, though I should choose my words more carefully. I meant "gently caress off" in general to people who are using that term in reference to what happens to Freya. If I have any problem with the game's writing it's that I feel like part of the writing team also (perhaps subconsciously) sees Freya as "hysterical" and wrote her into a corner to be mocked by a certain subset of the male audience, maybe not purposefully but at least out of habit. The mechanic where she futilely stops you from engaging in battle with her son over and over with the same repeated and distanced voice clips, while the game is making it quite obvious that it requires you to punch the poo poo out of this man (because there is no choice)...I dunno, I can see a fairly large percentage of gamers responding to that with "get out of my way, bitch." That's a sad way to design an interactive dramatic arc. BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 02:10
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal attack, though I should choose my words more carefully. I meant "gently caress off" in general to people who are using that term in reference to what happens to Freya. If I have any problem with the game's writing it's that I feel like part of the writing team also (perhaps subconsciously) sees Freya as "hysterical" and wrote her into a corner to be mocked by a certain subset of the male audience, maybe not purposefully but at least out of habit. I told him to gently caress off and I stand by it because I'm sick of reading drawn out "but what about reams of semantics and my opinion" responses when the reaction should be simply "poo poo I didn't know that" and move on.
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Jun 14, 2018 02:12
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'm sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal attack, though I should choose my words more carefully. I meant "gently caress off" in general to people who are using that term in reference to what happens to Freya. It wasnt you, you didnt direct it at me. You just made me curious why you had such an intense reaction to a theoretical use of a word I had up until an hour thought was fine. Anyway back to god of war. I found the ending a bit unsatisfying - it came at me sooner than expected and having seen what was under that last bit of curtain and then getting sequel bait instead of a proper drawn out epilogue was kind of hollow.
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Jun 14, 2018 02:18
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cubicle gangster posted:It wasnt you, you didnt direct it at me. You just made me curious why you had such an intense reaction to a theoretical use of a word I had up until an hour thought was fine. yeah I actually thought this, mostly because I had basically stopped right before jotunheim to finish everything off and level up for what I assumed was the final confrontation, not sure who i thought it would be with. I mainly expected some kind of big spectacle with thor or something, maybe the beginning of ragnarok to set up the next game. As kratos and BOY descended the mountain and the credits rolled I said "this isn't the end, they're just faking it" out loud a number of times lol
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Jun 14, 2018 02:20
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nopantsjack posted:yeah I actually thought this, mostly because I had basically stopped right before jotunheim to finish everything off and level up for what I assumed was the final confrontation, not sure who i thought it would be with. I mainly expected some kind of big spectacle with thor or something, maybe the beginning of ragnarok to set up the next game. Yeah, I stopped for dinner after that fight. Terrible move. I came back to a 20 minute walking sim and a 45 minute credits sequence. When the front door opened to thor in the dream I was like 'aw poo poo yeah, quickie epilogue final boss to set up the next one' and it cut to black before anything happened. Pointless. cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 02:25
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cubicle gangster posted:You just made me curious why you had such an intense reaction to a theoretical use of a word I had up until an hour thought was fine. You then also proceeded to try and defend your perception of its fineness in the face of people pointing out the word's history and context of, instead of going, "huh, I learned something. I'll think about how I use/see usage of 'hysterical' in future." Thus triggering a ton of shitposts (inlcuding mine I guess so ha) Anyway, I'm glad we all learned something today. I thought the ending was absolutely perfect. Some real catharsis without getting distracted by fighting. Osmosisch fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 12:17
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