Religion Thread: I never metaphysics I didn't like

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Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

I've recently learned that the existence of Cathedrals is something of a critical component of Tartarian conspiracy theories. They don't understand how people could build such magnificent buildings while they lived in mud huts or shacks and have this invented the concept of a "mud flood" where a great flood deposited so much sediment that the whole society was buried except for the very tallest spires which became cathedrals and grand churches. Basement windows are evidence of this because people wouldn't build windows into the ground, even to let in light, rather they're upper windows that have been sealed after being buried to create a basement.

Very funny stuff. I love phantom history.

They also harvest energy I guess? Not sure what that means.

Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 3, 2024

# ? May 3, 2024 03:24

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 01:49

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Gaius Marius posted:

I've recently learned that the existence of Cathedrals is something of a critical component of Tartarian conspiracy theories. They don't understand how people could build such magnificent buildings while they lived in mud huts or shacks and have this invented the concept of a "mud flood" where a great flood deposited so much sediment that the whole society was buried except for the very tallest spires which became cathedrals and grand churches. Basement windows are evidence of this because people wouldn't build windows into the ground, even to let in light, rather they're upper windows that have been sealed after being buried to create a basement.

Very funny stuff. I love phantom history.

They also harvest energy I guess? Not sure what that means.

Presumably it is ethereal cosmic energy, or perhaps the orgone, which is drawn down by the spire and then stolen, most assuredly, by the Jews.

Well, they might not say the last part, but that's where most of these grand theories end up.

# ? May 3, 2024 03:30

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

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That's really funny, because I actually live in a city that raised its downtown one story early in the 20th century as an intended flood prevention measure, resulting in a lot of ground-level windows downtown. It's sort of obscure, but fairly well-documented.

# ? May 3, 2024 03:53

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

https://www.tennessean.com/story/ne...ts/73505594007/ posted:

United Methodists officially lift same-sex wedding ban in final blow to LGBTQ+ restrictions
The UMC General Conference lifted a 28-year-old prohibition on United Methodist clergy and churches blessing same-sex unions, the last major decision by the assembly to remove longstanding anti-LGBTQ+ restrictions.

A petition to remove what�s commonly understood as a ban on LGBTQ+ weddings received approval Friday. Earlier in the week, the assembly dismantled mechanisms for enforcing the wedding ban. Also, the assembly added a provision earlier in the week and Friday that allows clergy and churches not to bless same-sex unions according to their conscience.

Texas pastor Rev. John Stephens, who holds traditional views on marriage and sexuality, highlighted in a news conference Thursday the explicit protections for both those who choose to bless same-sex unions and who choose not to as an example of legislation that sought to accommodate conservatives and progressives alike.

�No one is being penalized,� Stephens said in a news conference. �That means some of that work is going to be pushed down to the local church to make that decision and those are hard conversations.�

Ohio Bishop Rev. Tracy Smith Malone, the new president of the UMC Council of Bishops, echoed Stephens at a Thursday news conference, saying the UMC will need to equip bishops and other regional leaders to educate congregations about these policy changes.

�How do we have these conversations so that when these conversations are being had to respond to the question, �should we host a wedding?� that it doesn�t tear a congregation apart,� Smith Malone said.

In addition to lifting the LGBTQ+ wedding ban Friday afternoon, the assembly approved a petition eliminating chargeable offenses for clergy who are a �self-avowed practicing homosexual� and who celebrate same-sex unions.

There were nearly 20 LGBTQ+ inclusion-related petitions the general conference voted on this week, some as part of a consent calendar and others on an individual basis. The delegates approved all of them.

Who'd have guessed, it passed without a problem. Still allows conservative ministers to say no, but frankly better that they get that out in the open so a couple knows that congregation's not going to be a welcoming place for them as far as I'm concerned.

# ? May 3, 2024 22:02

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

They rotate pastors at Methodist churches. They are only there for a year technically, but usually stick around for four on average.

They started out as circuit riders way back in the day, and that still was going on even up until like the 20�s.

# ? May 4, 2024 03:02

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Ohtori Akio posted:

I like the interpretation shared by (I believe) Gaius Marius under which the total oneness with God and creation of the afterlife is hell if you've rejected God and heaven if you've accepted God.

Jeremy Naydler posted:

It will be recalled that Maat was regarded as the divine substance upon which the gods feed (see chapter 5), and hence both their source of nourishment and their source of life. Maat is the divine bread that refreshes and sustains those who are in harmony with her being; but to those who are not in accord with her, the experience of Maat is like swallowing fire.7 The Judgment Hall is the interior space, entering which one comes directly before that which nourishes the divine in oneself. To the extent that one has transformed one�s nature so that it is brought into alignment with the essential divine core of oneself, becoming conscious of having entered the presence of Maat must feel like a homecoming. But to the extent that one is out of alignment with one�s divine core, the experience is of searing pain, for Maat�s gaze is like a knife that cuts through all false identifications.

the latter quote reminded me of the former

# ? May 4, 2024 17:31

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

the latter quote reminded me of the former

this is interesting because my shallow understanding of Egyptian soteriology is that it has a very strong distinct destination character. but i guess most folks understand Christianity the same way!

# ? May 4, 2024 18:59

Mad Hamish: Jun 15, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

the latter quote reminded me of the former

Ohhhhh I love this.

# ? May 4, 2024 19:49

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Yeah I understand that! I would be lying if I tried to say I have had a complete comprehension of Egyptian soteriology my whole life, and for that matter I think I would still be lying if I said I fully understand it now, but I certainly understand a lot more than I did in 2007 or whenever

I think just like the way "Left Behind" media dominated the public awareness of the Christian culturesphere for a while, the way there were so many exciting archaeological finds for a while that included esoteric wisdom about the trip through the Duat led to that dominating the modern idea of an Egyptian experience of religion. But everyone knowing "the scene of the weighing of the heart" really communicates about as much, within the greater context of the spiritual journey, as everyone knowing that "there comes a Kingdom of Heaven." For example one might say "ancient Egyptians believed the afterlife was just like Egypt itself!" However this would be the phenomenon of taking something true (I will borrow some quotes here from the Jeremy Naydler book, which is called "Temple of the Cosmos" by the way Mad Hamish and I recommend it, I intend to give the whole thing a re-read soon):

quote:

The Underworld is not so much an �other� world in a separate domain from the physical, but is rather the inner, metaphysical landscape that underlies the physical landscape of Egypt. Here the spiritual forces that are gathered to test and to judge the ba are none other than the very same spiritual forces that are active within the Egyptian landscape, distilled into the enigmatic personalities of the gods.

and expressing it in an untrue way. The Underworld as perceived here was not the Underworld as perceived as the final afterlife of the Dead; this is the liminal space, the last leg of a journey characterized by knowing and doing ma'at which until this point had been taken throughout the person's entire earthly spiritual life prior.

quote:

The journey through the Underworld is a purgatorial journey. In the course of it, the ba must free itself of all those elements in its nature that are inconsonant with maat. And this process of becoming free is pictured as involving three stages: first of all the negative energy presents itself to the traveller as an autonomous force, usually a beast of some description. This stage can of course be precipitated by the more conscious traveller who has learned how to objectify actively the blocking energy in a specific visual image. Second, the traveller and the opposing force engage in a struggle. The opposer wants to steal the traveller�s heart, take away the traveller�s magic power, or kill the traveller�s soul�that is, to cut the ba off from all contact with its spiritual source. The aim of the traveller, by contrast, is not to kill or eliminate the opposer, but rather to master it. This is often symbolized in the act of �turning the head� of the beast that comes against you. And this �turning of the head� may be thought of as the third stage of the process. For in accomplishing this difficult feat, one actually wins for oneself�for one�s higher purpose�all the negative energy by which one was initially opposed. This appropriation of negative energy�the transformation of one�s demons into beneficent daemons, as one modern psychologist has put it15�is crucial to the whole notion of journeying through the Underworld, in contrast to merely stagnating in it.

Now by the time a person gets to this final leg of their journey it would behoove them to already have, like a sunflower to the Sun, their face turned toward ma'at, as much as is possible; and in that way they have clear vision as they engage these final and most dangerous challenges to their Divine essential nature and have fewer blind spots and weak points where the demons of anger, insecurity, self-doubt, hopelessness, faithlessness, and the like might strike at them as they pass. But just as in our earthly life we must face the attacks and challenges of that which might damage our better nature or trick us into doing that which harms us, so in this last reflection of that life we lived must we demonstrate, finally, once and for all, that we conquer that which would conquer us.

quote:

In figure 11.5, three crocodiles suddenly appear on the path, and challenge the Underworld traveller (in this case Nakht), threatening to steal his magic power and destroy his soul. How are we to understand this image of the three crocodiles? One of the characteristics of this creature is that it can lurk in the depths of a river or canal, and one can have no idea that it is there. You may think that you are completely safe, and that there is no danger at all, because you cannot see any sign of the crocodile�s presence. The crocodile has this capacity to conceal itself beyond the range of human awareness, and this is what makes it so terrifying. It is an animal that can strike from complete concealment. Once in the grip of its deadly jaws, one�s fate is determined: there is no reprieve. This aspect of the crocodile�s nature is most significant for travellers of the Underworld. For in the Underworld one encounters crocodiles on the psychic plane that lie in wait in the depths of the unconscious, and whose object is to drag down the unwary traveller. The fate of the soul is then, like the fate of the body on the physical plane, to drown in dark waters and to become fodder for this merciless creature. The crocodile�s main desire is to consume the magic that is the soul�s principal possession. Travellers must therefore arm themselves with a knife and shout out these words of power:

quote:
Get back! Give way!
Get back you crocodile fiend!
You shall not come against me
for my magic lives in me!
May I not have to speak your name
to the Great God who has allowed you to appear.16

The traveller then proves that he knows the name of each crocodile. In so doing he brings the light of conscious knowledge to bear on the dark and fearful powers that oppose him. Were this conscious knowledge then to be held at the level of the divine consciousness of Ra, which is what the traveller threatens to do by �speaking� the name to the Great God, the crocodile opponents would be completely vanquished. For no crocodile can withstand Ra�s burning radiance. The ability to discern the true nature of the enemy, and then to name it, is perhaps symbolized by the long knife that Nakht holds. It is the knife of discernment, of clear consciousness that is blunted neither by fear nor desire, but is, as it were, sharpened by devotion to truth, or maat. The crocodiles blurt out: �Your face is turned towards maat.� Nakht then pronounces the words of an incantation in which he himself appropriates the essence of the crocodilian foes that would steal his magic. As he chants his words of power, he becomes visibly bigger than his opponents, who seem to shrink before him.

quote:
As the sky encloses the stars
and as magic [heka] encloses all that is within its power,
so does my mouth enclose the magic which is in it.
My teeth are knives of flint,
and my back teeth are fangs filled with venom.
O you crocodile who would swallow my magic, you shall not take it away!
No crocodile that lives on magic shall take my magic away!17

Now if you'll permit me I'd just like to point out something there. I've tried to articulate in past conversations the way I perceive "heka" to be, a little more precisely understood, not as "magic" but as "creative power," the creative Divine power the use of which some men attribute solely to God and others conceptualize as a shared and guided process. Go back and try reconceptualizing these exchanges as one protecting their connection to God, to the Divine, if you had not been already; as opposed to a vulgar "magic." You shall not come against me, for the Divine lives in me. O you beast who would swallow my creative power, you shall not take it away.

quote:

That which exists is in the hollow of my hand,
that which does not yet exist is in my belly.
I am clothed and equipped with your magic, O Ra. . . .
My face is open, my heart is upon its seat,
and the uraeus serpent is with me day by day.
I am Ra, who through himself protects himself
and nothing shall cast me down.

Now this ties back to the Christian idea of the Christ's role in salvation, I think, because while it is undeniable in the Egyptian literature that it is having a relationship with the Gods (to put it simply) which will allow one to emerge triumphant into the day at the end of this long journey of reconciliation which does not end at death; the relationship with Christ elides the portion of the journey which would occur after death entirely. In either faith, the faithful must live a life in tune with ma'at, or the Divine, with acts of charity and kindness

Book of Coming Forth By Day, Spell 125 posted:

I have given bread to the hungry, and water to the thirsty, clothes to the naked and a boat to him who was boatless.

Matthew 25 posted:

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me.

Teaching of Ani, v10 posted:

Do not refuse your hand to one whom you do not know who comes to you in mortal poverty.

Proverbs 3:27 posted:

Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.

and adhering to true Justice

Instructions of Ptah-Hotep posted:

Do not defraud a man in the law court,
Or remove the just man.
Do not pay attention to a man in fine clothes
Or heed him who is shabbily dressed
Do not receive the gift of a strong man
And oppress the powerless for him.

Deuteronomy 16 posted:

Do not pervert justice or show partiality. Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the innocent.

One is to spend one's life seeking and doing ma'at. In fact it's made clear that behaving as a God in life is the most important way to honor and respect the Gods you love.

Teachings of Meri-Kare, 128 posted:

Righteousness is more important as an act of worship than attention to detail of the ritual sacrifice:
More acceptable is the character of one upright of heart, than the ox of the evil-doer.

1 Samuel 15:22 posted:

Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold to obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams.

But that all gets lost in the chaff of long lost day-to-day experience, and forgotten.

# ? May 5, 2024 19:12

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Then of course that last journey bit is real important, one must stick the landing, so the Christ doing that part for his people is significant from the one perspective and from the other, it makes sense Egyptian philosophers and scribes would spend so much time focusing on understanding the journey after the barrier and what might be expected of the Dead, how they might be best prepared. I felt that post getting away from me though and had to cut myself short a little :lmao:

# ? May 5, 2024 19:16

Mad Hamish: Jun 15, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

LAB what do you think of Normandi Ellis' Awakening Osiris?

# ? May 5, 2024 19:28

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Oh!! I was unfamiliar and now I'm so excited to read this, thank you Hamish!!!

# ? May 5, 2024 19:35

XavierAlexander: Mar 22, 2024; by Pragmatica

Happy Easter goons. I got to have a wonderful time eating a whole lamb from Petaluma, only 8 months old, with many people that I loved. A lot of suckered were up since last night and had to kneel 42 times but I just got to bring good whiskey and party.

Be gay and do crimes or don't and be straight and do penance. It is all a party.

# ? May 6, 2024 06:12

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

It's been a weird one

# ? May 6, 2024 06:21

Prurient Squid: Jul 21, 2008; Tiddy cat Buddha improving your day.

Plotinus gives an interesting interpretation of the Narcissus myth. That it's the soul entranced with it's own reflection in matter.

# ? May 7, 2024 12:11

Prurient Squid: Jul 21, 2008; Tiddy cat Buddha improving your day.

I finally managed to recite the Heart Sutra from memory.

https://sndup.net/dyrb/

# ? May 7, 2024 15:00

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

I have a question for you Christians that's been bugging me for years. Excuse me if I've asked this before (I use to drink alot).

Was Jesus God himself or the literal Son of God? I need to figure this out before I go crazy.

# ? May 7, 2024 23:46

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

Spacegrass posted:

I have a question for you Christians that's been bugging me for years. Excuse me if I've asked this before (I use to drink alot).

Was Jesus God himself or the literal Son of God? I need to figure this out before I go crazy.

both and more op.

# ? May 7, 2024 23:48

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

Spacegrass posted:

I have a question for you Christians that's been bugging me for years. Excuse me if I've asked this before (I use to drink alot).

Was Jesus God himself or the literal Son of God? I need to figure this out before I go crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGqD7H4Ys3c

# ? May 8, 2024 00:07

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

Squizzle posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGqD7H4Ys3c

Made me laugh. Thanks.

# ? May 8, 2024 00:27

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Ohtori Akio posted:

both and more op.

Where does the Holy Ghost come in? Is that what the Spiritualists are up to? Dan Aykroyd seems like a good fellow, maybe we should hear them out.

# ? May 8, 2024 01:06

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

Nessus posted:

Where does the Holy Ghost come in? Is that what the Spiritualists are up to? Dan Aykroyd seems like a good fellow, maybe we should hear them out.

also god OP...

# ? May 8, 2024 01:09

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Spacegrass posted:

I have a question for you Christians that's been bugging me for years. Excuse me if I've asked this before (I use to drink alot).

Was Jesus God himself or the literal Son of God? I need to figure this out before I go crazy.

how much do you know about javascript type conversions

# ? May 8, 2024 01:52

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Spacegrass posted:

I have a question for you Christians that's been bugging me for years. Excuse me if I've asked this before (I use to drink alot).

Was Jesus God himself or the literal Son of God? I need to figure this out before I go crazy.

Yes.

God is one Being in three coeternal, uncreated Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son is begotten from the Father, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father. Each one is God, and the three together are one God. Jesus is the incarnation of God the Son, being the Son of God both cosmically (having existed before creation) and biologically (being born from the Virgin Mary within history), and has both a fully human and fully divine nature, making his divinity available to humanity.

# ? May 8, 2024 02:04

Thirteen Orphans: Dec 2, 2012; I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

Keromaru5 posted:

Yes.

God is one Being in three coeternal, uncreated Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son is begotten from the Father, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father. Each one is God, and the three together are one God. Jesus is the incarnation of God the Son, being the Son of God both cosmically (having existed before creation) and biologically (being born from the Virgin Mary within history), and has both a fully human and fully divine nature, making his divinity available to humanity.

Says I without a dog in the race.

# ? May 8, 2024 03:40

Pellisworth: Jun 20, 2005

Filio por que no los dos?

# ? May 8, 2024 03:48

Keromaru5: Dec 28, 2012; Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Tee hee

# ? May 8, 2024 04:06

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Thirteen Orphans posted:

Says I without a dog in the race.

Funny you should mention dogs.

# ? May 8, 2024 04:50

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Dogs go to heaven.

# ? May 8, 2024 04:52

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Gaius Marius posted:

Dogs go to heaven.

All dogs?

# ? May 8, 2024 04:55

XavierAlexander: Mar 22, 2024; by Pragmatica

"spririt" is really "raush" or "breath" but it's actually (and grammatically) feminine. This is what we lose by defaulting to Jerome.

# ? May 8, 2024 05:42

Neon Noodle: Nov 11, 2016; there's nothing wrong here in montana

https://youtu.be/KJEiDRi4Itc

# ? May 8, 2024 10:22

Prurient Squid: Jul 21, 2008; Tiddy cat Buddha improving your day.

I think there's an accrual process with the relationship between Mythos and Logos.

Because the Greeks have a vivid mythology to begin with. Then the philosophers dispute the meaning of the mythology in subtle discourses. But what happens is that those philosophers become legendary figures in their own rights and their arguments are reinterpreted. They become a new Mythos leading to a new Logos.

# ? May 8, 2024 11:25

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Nessus posted:

All dogs?

There is of course Hitlers dog, and also the one bad Lassie.

# ? May 8, 2024 11:43

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Nessus posted:

All dogs?

except those class traitors in the Paw Patrol

# ? May 8, 2024 12:06

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/ijgy0h/comment/g3eig0l/

# ? May 8, 2024 13:34

Shaddak: Nov 13, 2011

Nessus posted:

Funny you should mention dogs.

# ? May 8, 2024 14:17

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

did the warp 10 salamander babies have souls and if so, was the crew damned by their neglect for the children?? if not did janeway lose her soul while she was a salamander???

did the hologram doctor have to reënsoul the captain

# ? May 8, 2024 14:23

Spacegrass: May 1, 2013

Keromaru5 posted:

Yes.

God is one Being in three coeternal, uncreated Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son is begotten from the Father, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father. Each one is God, and the three together are one God. Jesus is the incarnation of God the Son, being the Son of God both cosmically (having existed before creation) and biologically (being born from the Virgin Mary within history), and has both a fully human and fully divine nature, making his divinity available to humanity.

I don't understand that too well. I need a clear simple answer.

Was he an actual son? Was he born from the Lord like our souls/spirits were (if you believe that) or was he just the lord in the flesh?

# ? May 8, 2024 18:38

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 01:49

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Spacegrass posted:

I don't understand that too well. I need a clear simple answer.

Was he an actual son? Was he born from the Lord like our souls/spirits were (if you believe that) or was he just the lord in the flesh?

There is no clear simple answer. Christians argued about it for a millennium to get to where we are.

Jesus was God in the flesh, fully God and fully human simultaneously.

# ? May 8, 2024 18:48

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