|
Ragnar34 posted:Get this: I literally want to redistribute your wealth. The poor work harder than you, comrade. Also, the people who really pay for these social programs are the people who already don't work for a living, so you might as well chill. It must be frustrating to support an ideology that will never eventuate. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 04:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
NSW_greens posted:I'd still do things, they would just benefit me and not society. I wouldn't be a slave to parasites who play videogames and watch TV all day. Why would mincome be enough to cause you to check out of work if you make significantly more than a mincome allowance? If this is truly how you feel, do you work for a few years, building up a tidy nest egg, and then quit and not work for a year? Or is this more of a noble stand and sacrifice you'd make in a futile attempt to hurt  parasites, if mincome did exist?Lastly, consumption helps society. You are not an island.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 04:41
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:I'd still do things, they would just benefit me and not society. I wouldn't be a slave to parasites who play videogames and watch TV all day. You still haven't lined up for your fentanyl reward. Don't you want it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 05:26
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:As your article says its likely because whites tend to sell more to friends and people they know, as opposed to dealing in more visible locations. That doesn't even get into the fact that white-collar crime is almost never prosecuted, as evidence of the perpetrators of the 2008 economic crisis basically all being ignored. This is evidence we cannot ignore of the justice system not functioning to prevent, reduce, or even properly punish crime. NSW_greens posted:Social safety net sure. Universal basic income is just another word for "wealth redistribution". I work hard (and to be blunt I am very good at my job) partially because I enjoy what I do but also because the income is nice.UBI means my taxes will go up to fund people who want to lie on the beach all day. I'd rather join the unproductive masses and I imagine many others would do the same. Politicians will promise to increase the UBI to win elections and the whole system will turn to poo poo. NSW_greens posted:I like the Sheriff Joe approach myself. If you actually care about decreasing crime, then you should use evidence to create policy, not what feels good. Uranium Phoenix fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Sep 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 05:57
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:The solution is not to put these people in jail in the first place. Prison should be for people who have done wrong and Increased harshness is almost completely ineffective as a deterrent. The thing that actually stops people is increased (perceived) risk of getting caught.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 06:04
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:Sheriff Joe 's policies are generally popular which is why he didn't get booted out years ago. gently caress you, and your loving stupid face.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 06:09
|
|
|
Uranium Phoenix posted:You may like it and it may be popular, but it doesn't actually work. While Arizona's violent crime rate went down 12%, Sheriff Joe's county's rate went up 58%. Setting aside Arpaio's racism and other corrupt and unconstitutional practices, his methods straight up don't work. It works at what they want it to achieve: punishment and suffering. Sycophant authoritarians don't actually care about improving society, they care about assuring themselves that there are people in society worse than them (a falsehood), and torturing those people. They'd bring back breaking on the wheel if we didn't control their sick impulses.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 07:13
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:I'd still do things, they would just benefit me and not society. I wouldn't be a slave to parasites who play videogames and watch TV all day. You sound like a person that at best people tolerate. Tell me, how long have you been a discipline of Rand? Do you think it makes you less or more tolerated by your peers? Is everyone in the world an rear end in a top hat or is it more likely it's just you? And in the absence of positive attention since your views are so awful do you enjoy the negative attention as an edgelord? You sound both boring, awful and selfish. That's an awful combination. Why don't you try working outside of your comfort zone and doing something kind for people who your more wretched moral compass would identify as people who can provide no benefit if you help? In the classical sense a parasite (as you were tossing that word around) is defined as an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. If that organism is society and you do nothing for it while reaping benefits, then you are a parasite. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Sep 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
NSW_greens posted:It must be frustrating to support an ideology that will never eventuate. More progressive taxation plus better welfare programs would be cool for now  But seriously, are you real? I'm 50-50 on this right now. A lot of the time you talk like a caricature, like I guess you're talking about Sheriff Joe now? The "lol, pink uniforms and no air conditioning" guy? Last time I read about him, it was in an email forward in yellow comic sans text with lots of exclamation points. e: It's like when the new drug dealer is using outdated slang to talk about his merchandise. If your Facebook authoritarian memes are this old, how do I know you're not an undercover cop? Ragnar34 fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Sep 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 07:31
|
|
|
valnas posted:If you are caught with drugs, your are a dealer in the eyes of the law. Get real lol. There is no distinction. I got caught with about 4 grams of cannabis once, and the cops wrote it up as 36 grams b/c it was in a nalgene container with other heavier objects. Now it's over a weight limit, and I'm a dealer until I capitulate to the legal system or pay a lawyer. Those who can't end up doing labour with murderers and rapists. So is your car legally registered as a boat and do you sign your name in crayon because that makes it so it's not your ~LEGAL NAME~ and therefore the state can't enter joiner with you and trick you with their lawyer magic?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 07:45
|
|
|
Lol you don't have to be a sovereign citizen to recognise that cops cut corners and that a cop's testimony is basically worth more the darker the defendant's skin tone is. The justice system is corrupt as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 07:54
|
|
|
woke wedding drone posted:You still haven't lined up for your fentanyl reward. Don't you want it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 08:09
|
|
|
Rockopolis posted:Fentanyl for everyone? Did you get NSW greens and me mixed up? I think so. After all, how many believers in authoritarianism do you have to add up to get one person?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 08:41
|
|
|
So, anyone got any news on them there prison strikes?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 09:49
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:"Prisoners have committed crimes against society so they should be made to work to enrich the wealthy." doesn't really make any sense. Replace slavery my rear end. Slavery is legal in the United States, read your own constitution.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 10:49
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:Replace slavery my rear end. Slavery is legal in the United States, read your own constitution. Uh, it's not my constitution but I thought they sort of amended that to explicitly say that chattel slavery isn't legal? They had a big war about it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 12:24
|
|
|
woke wedding drone posted:I think so. After all, how many believers in authoritarianism do you have to add up to get one person? OwlFancier posted:Uh, it's not my constitution but I thought they sort of amended that to explicitly say that chattel slavery isn't legal? Big loophole, they used(?) to arrest black people for poo poo like vagrancy, fine them, then lock them up when they couldn't pay so they could send them to work on literal plantations.  I think it's the MoJo article that goes into more detail.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 12:39
|
|
|
MikeCrotch posted:So, anyone got any news on them there prison strikes? No, but you're about to learn why the last prison thread didn't go places.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
MikeCrotch posted:So, anyone got any news on them there prison strikes? What strike?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
I'm going to come at this from a completely un-empathetic cold financial economic point of view, since I feel like both sides are speaking past each other a bit... one side is accusing the other of being monsters, the other is saying 'why should I care about prisoners?' But: every single job a prisoner is doing for $.50/hr or whatever is another job that is being taken away from hard working Americans. Think about that when you're buying that $40 piece of lingerie that was made for ten cents because of prison labor with a 'Made in USA' slapped on it. In 1990 two prisoners were placed in solitary because they leaked to the media that they were told to replace 'Made in Honduras' tags with 'Made in USA' tags. The stuff you're getting from grocery stores from 'sustainable American farms?' Prison labor. Whole Foods is especially bad about that. At the same time, because there is now economic incentive for big companies to use prison labor, there are lobby groups funded by said big companies pushing for 3 strikes laws (and similar) that are questionable in their efficacy BUT do provide lots of long term prisoners - all paid for by taxpayer dime, of course. Seems to me like if you care about securing American jobs and a strong American economy and working class, you'd not support for-profit prison labor. Don't even need to bring 'treat prisoners better' into it. OwlFancier posted:Uh, it's not my constitution but I thought they sort of amended that to explicitly say that chattel slavery isn't legal? 13th Amendment posted:"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Roylicious fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 21, 2016 |
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 18:41
|
|
NSW_greens posted:I'd still do things, they would just benefit me and not society. I wouldn't be a slave to parasites who play videogames and watch TV all day. Also, as a quick aside, this is because most of his voting base is a bunch of old white people. Joe has directly lost the county over $64 MILLION dollars in settlements and court fees because of his frankly outrageous actions (such as arresting a bunch of journalists who badmouthed him for no other reason than that). http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2016/05/12/taxpayer-costs-sheriff-joe-arpaios-profiling-case-another-13m-top-41m/84293950/ posted:The $41 million spending so far includes $10 million in attorney fees and $5 million for the monitoring staff. It represents only a part of the county’s heavy legal costs over Arpaio’s 23-year tenure. So again just from a purely cold financial point of view, his policies are not effectual and end up actually wasting obscene amounts of money. quote:“To spend this much money and find out we are nowhere close to being compliant is disturbing,” said Supervisor Steve Gallardo... "The money could have been used to pay for flood-control improvements, increases for county employees who have gone four years without raises, and other unfunded projects."
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
You're making the faulty assumption that people base their political preferences on rationality rather than emotion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Roylicious posted:Also, as a quick aside, this is because most of his voting base is a bunch of old white people. Joe has directly lost the county over $64 MILLION dollars in settlements and court fees because of his frankly outrageous actions (such as arresting a bunch of journalists who badmouthed him for no other reason than that). How exactly does he not get fired?
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:35
|
|
OwlFancier posted:How exactly does he not get fired? It's an elected position, most of his constituents are white racist retirees who love him for being tough on immigrants. People from AZ have told me that "it's the price you pay for an effective sheriff," effectiveness being measured simply by the amount of harassing non-white people get I guess (since as was already mentioned, his policies aren't actually effective at reducing crime or whatever).
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:41
|
|
|
Why is the chief of the county police an elected position? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Why is the chief of the county police an elected position? 'merica!!!!
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Yeah pretty much. The long answer is because the sheriff is a powerful position not necessarily beholden to the federal/state government and thus people see it as a check against the power of 'big government.' They like feeling like the sheriff represents them versus being appointed by someone else (who they would be electing but hey).
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:44
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Why is the chief of the county police an elected position? If you think that's bad, wait till you find out how many American states pick their judges.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
Roylicious posted:Also, as a quick aside, this is because most of his voting base is a bunch of old white people. Joe has directly lost the county over $64 MILLION dollars in settlements and court fees because of his frankly outrageous actions (such as arresting a bunch of journalists who badmouthed him for no other reason than that). It's around 142 million since 1993.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
Well, still not much to report. A few excerpts:The Intercept posted:A week into the strike, a couple of groups were providing updates on the action, which organizers say will carry on indefinitely, as well as outside demonstrations of solidarity. Pretty much every other article says the same thing: Media blackout, can't say much because the prisons are restricting information, and the leaders have been retaliated against. The one above did link to this, though, which apparently has occasional updates of some of the things going on. Here's some bits from Sept. 21st: Mask Magazine posted:“I would like you and supporters to know that there was a symbolic protest at Washington Correctional Center for Women in Gig Harbor on September 9. Three women refused to go to work in the prison library. The emergency response team was dispatched and the women were taken to Segregation. At their hearing last week, they were given 20 days in seg, and are facing reclassification and probably the loss of their jobs. In my opinion, this was a peaceful, non-violent expression of their opinions meant to draw attention to the issue of prison labor, and the response was much more disruptive than the event itself. The library has been closed since September 9. According to DOC, this was the only action in the entire state of Washington.”
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 05:11
|
|
|
Solitary confinement as a punishment method is pretty cruel if you ask me and I don't know that I like it being used so freely. I'm not for coddling anyone but at the same time if we could not just create hardened psycho criminals that'd be nice too.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
Solitary confinement is literal torture, as in it will literally drive someone insane. The effects of it as psychological torture have been pretty well documented, particularly as a lot of it probably has government funding.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:Solitary confinement is literal torture, as in it will literally drive someone insane. The effects of it as psychological torture have been pretty well documented, particularly as a lot of it probably has government funding. Didn't the u.n. actually declare it cruel and unusual rather recently? Social isolation is one of the worst things you can do to a person.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:28
|
|
|
The irony of solitary confinement is that when it was first brought in it was a seen as a humane, corrective alternative that would allow prisoners time for solemn contemplation. They didn't realise at the time that a savage beating would probably do less lasting damage.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:The irony of solitary confinement is that when it was first brought in it was a seen as a humane, corrective alternative that would allow prisoners time for solemn contemplation. They didn't realise at the time that a savage beating would probably do less lasting damage. http://www.clickhole.com/article/progress-prison-will-replace-solitary-confinement--4816
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Why is the chief of the county police an elected position? Sheriff's are largely elected everywhere and they have varying degrees of authority. In some states they also handle tax collection.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Why is the chief of the county police an elected position? County government structure varies widely across the U.S., but it is fairly common for certain executive positions like the treasurer and sheriff to be elected independently of the legislature, as many counties don't have a strong, independent chief executive equivalent to a mayor, governor, or president. Arpaio isn't an example of a flaw in this system, because his constituents know what they want, they're voting for it, and they're getting it. If his position was an appointed one, they'd just be voting for an executive who would promise to appoint a similarly belligerent rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Roylicious posted:Solitary confinement as a punishment method is pretty cruel if you ask me and I don't know that I like it being used so freely. I'm not for coddling anyone but at the same time if we could not just create hardened psycho criminals that'd be nice too. ToxicSlurpee posted:Didn't the u.n. actually declare it cruel and unusual rather recently? Social isolation is one of the worst things you can do to a person.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:County government structure varies widely across the U.S., but it is fairly common for certain executive positions like the treasurer and sheriff to be elected independently of the legislature, as many counties don't have a strong, independent chief executive equivalent to a mayor, governor, or president. Arpaio isn't an example of a flaw in this system, because his constituents know what they want, they're voting for it, and they're getting it. If his position was an appointed one, they'd just be voting for an executive who would promise to appoint a similarly belligerent rear end in a top hat. I would suggest that splitting things into many small elected roles makes it easier to fill each role with the most populist garbage you can find. E: vvvvv Also "lol what's a PCC?" because nobody turned out for it. I don't think they even do anything, I think they're just there to give suggestions. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Sep 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:48 |
|
|
BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Sheriff's are largely elected everywhere and they have varying degrees of authority. In some states they also handle tax collection. I think it's more that this is an insane proposition to a lot of people who aren't American The UK just started electing Police and Crime Commissioners and everyone's immediate response was "why the gently caress would we want to do that"
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 23:06
|
|