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I thought I had but I'm willing to try it again.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:33
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Leyburn posted:I thought I had but I'm willing to try it again. The carts inside the mine aren't connected to the one wedged under the door.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:38
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AllisonByProxy posted:I'm sorry but I just don't get all the praise. It was fine but I didn't really see anything it did that wasn't just a rehash of ideas from Ico and and to a lesser extent SOTC. Can anyone better articulate what this game brought to the table? Have I just become soulless in my old age? No you're exactly right. What you have to do is not look at what this game is innovating for the year 2016. It was only innovative for probably the original release date over five years ago. It's just a nice story done right and like others said, it's ico that's done better and looks more beautiful. And it's good that ueda finished his vision of his story of companionship and how to bring that into the video game medium by using an ai for trico.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:55
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I think team Ico did a really good job animating Trico and although it has a few issues, I never really had that many problems with the AI for him. That's mostly what sold me on the game, as well as the incredible environments. The only frustrating thing about the game was the camera/controls: apart from that, loading times seemed to be non-existent, if you died you respawned quickly and you didn't lose too much progress (usually). I still prefer SOTC over this (which is a masterpiece of mood, pacing and setting, IMO), but Last Guardian achieves what it sets out to do, and does it better than Ico.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:07
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AllisonByProxy posted:I'm sorry but I just don't get all the praise. It was fine but I didn't really see anything it did that wasn't just a rehash of ideas from Ico and and to a lesser extent SOTC. Can anyone better articulate what this game brought to the table? Have I just become soulless in my old age? Even as someone who really liked SotC, I get the sense that you're just kind of predisposed to like TLG. Its charms are going to be your jam to an extent that the technical issues won't meaningfully detract, or the entire package just isn't for you.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:16
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Thinking on the ending I kinda get the feeling the Trico are actually engineered rather than natural creatures. Aside from being a mix of mammal and bird, it's things like the laser cannon the tail (with a very well hidden Colossus-esque green mark at the tip) and the way they "pair" with the shield by those eye flashes. Nevermind the regenerative abilities or the crystal resonance antennae controlling them via their horns. I can't help but think they're an offshoot of whatever technology created the Colossi, considering their haunting stares and semi-organic construction.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:24
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Thinking on the ending I kinda get the feeling the Trico are actually engineered rather than natural creatures. Aside from being a mix of mammal and bird, it's things like the laser cannon the tail (with a very well hidden Colossus-esque green mark at the tip) and the way they "pair" with the shield by those eye flashes. Nevermind the regenerative abilities or the crystal resonance antennae controlling them via their horns. I can't help but think they're an offshoot of whatever technology created the Colossi, considering their haunting stares and semi-organic construction.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:30
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Tekopo posted:Ending spoilers as well: building on the above, was it clear to anyone else what they were using the kidnapped children for? The game seems to suggest that they kidnap children in order to turn them in new Tricos (mostly based on the way the eyes flashed when the protagonist was kidnapped and how his fellow villagers said that he had 'been chosen'. Am I stating something that's obvious to everyone or did anyone feel that the game wasn't going for this narrative route? Big spoilers Nope, the kids are processed into food barrels. The villagers likely have no idea what happens to the boys after a Trico snatches them away, so they all they can do is hope and pray they're chosen for something good  . The Trico's flashing eyes as it scanned them just means it wants specific traits for processing in its barrel of child meat, I guess.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:33
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It seemed to me that the children were creating the barrels. As in, each barrel you fed Trico was a captured child. As soon as the child is dropped into the chute, a barrel was produced. I guess it could have just been a reward for bringing a child? I think best case, they're being used to power the master somehow, if the Tricos aren't literally eating them...
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Dec 12, 2016 12:36
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Big spoilers Nope, the kids are processed into food barrels. The villagers likely have no idea what happens to the boys after a Trico snatches them away, so they all they can do is hope and pray they're chosen for something good
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Dec 12, 2016 12:36
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The completely hosed framerate just adds to that authentic team ico feel.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:36
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Big spoilers Nope, the kids are processed into food barrels. The villagers likely have no idea what happens to the boys after a Trico snatches them away, so they all they can do is hope and pray they're chosen for something good I think there is probably more to it, because why cant the Trico just eat the child if they want food? There must be some other reason to bring them back, it seems like the Trico may be engineered like someone said - the barrel might contain fuel for them, and the master can use the child somehow, maybe to power the suits of armour. Our Trico eats the player a few times throughout the game but just spits him up again. The towns people say the player is chosen, so perhaps they are aware of the master as some kind of deity figure who takes sacrifices. The player narration also says that he learns later that the area is called the nest, so he must have learned about that from his village, since he is still there as an adult.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:49
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I'm pretty sure the captures children are the green energy that animates the armor, powers the technology, and feeds the Trico all in one. The fact that the tattoos created by dwelling in a Trico's stomach serve to bind and control you especially backs them being what is within the armor imo. And yeah, I agree that the Trico seem to be engineered. The statues of the armorless (and hornless?) Tricos make me think they were a creature that existed naturally, but the current versions which have shield controlled laser tails, mind controlled horns, and can magically bind swallowed children in their stomachs have been modified by the Master, or whoever created the Master.
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Dec 12, 2016 13:06
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How much better is the frame rate on the ps pro? I'm on a pro (playing at 4K output) and it's not bothered me at all. I was under the impression the pro only gave an improvement if you forced 1080p so I'm curious how close my performance is to standard PS4. Also absolutely loving this so far, probably going to be my favourite of the ueda games.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:09
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Tgent posted:How much better is the frame rate on the ps pro? I'm on a pro (playing at 4K output) and it's not bothered me at all. I was under the impression the pro only gave an improvement if you forced 1080p so I'm curious how close my performance is to standard PS4. The pro is apparently buttery smooth compared to a regular ps4. I think I saw somewhere it's mostly a steady 30fps with occasional dip to 25 and rarely 20.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:44
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The purpose of the children not being adequately hinted at is the biggest potential point of failure in my - admittedly somewhat unhinged - Unifying Timeline Theory of TLG/SotC/ICO. They're not cateagle food, because then the system is completely circular and pointless. They're probably not providing power, because human bodies are terribly inefficient as fuel. Most likely answer is that TLG mirrors ICO in that the "chosen ones" are raw materials for the guards. Which is also dangerously close to circular, unless the guards serve some purpose in keeping the cryopod sleeper in the "shield room" alive - or interred.
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Dec 12, 2016 14:59
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LordMune posted:The purpose of the children not being adequately hinted at is the biggest potential point of failure in my - admittedly somewhat unhinged - Unifying Timeline Theory of TLG/SotC/ICO. They're not cateagle food, because then the system is completely circular and pointless. They're probably not providing power, because human bodies are terribly inefficient as fuel. Most likely answer is that TLG mirrors ICO in that the "chosen ones" are raw materials for the guards. Which is also dangerously close to circular, unless the guards serve some purpose in keeping the cryopod sleeper in the "shield room" alive - or interred.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:06
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Tekopo posted:I think that's largely the point: the system is circular and pointless. The clue is in the name of the game I feel: the Last Guardian is the Master of the Nest, and he was originally created to look after the place and protect the people within it by using the Tricos and the robot guards. The civilization that built the place vanished, but the Master remained. His existence is now pointless, but his directives are to keep protecting the nest, even though it is not actually protecting anything anymore. I dunno about protecting or looking after anything. I don't really buy that The Master ever had any loyalties to anyone except, maybe, to the Emissary sleeping in the basement of the tower/ship, who is likely still alive/capable of being resurrected. If it ever coexisted with humans, it must have been a parasitical relationship with ulterior motives similar to how it twisted the cateagles. LordMune fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 15:25
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LordMune posted:I dunno about protecting or looking after anything. I don't really buy that The Master ever had any loyalties to anyone except, maybe, to the Emissary sleeping in the basement of the tower/ship, who is likely still alive/capable of being resurrected. If it ever coexisted with humans, it must have been a parasitical relationship with ulterior motives similar to how it twisted the cateagles.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:38
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Tekopo posted:I don't really see anyone else to which the title 'Last Guardian' applies to, to be honest. Unless the protagonist himself is the Last Guardian, in that the Tricos were originally reared/nurtured by humans, and were subverted by the Master who mind-controlled them for his evil purposes. Thinking about it, this might actually make sense, because it explains why the structures of the Master tower look so alien: maybe the Master invaded the Nest, took it over and enslaved the Tricos from their previous Guardians. Certainly a possibility. Recently I've been leaning more towards the Master being the "Last Guardian" of the Emissary's kind. The tragedy in TLG's otherwise unambiguously happy ending would then be the extinction of the Master's sleeping ward. Unless, of course, it is not the Emissary's life-support that fails with the death of the Master, but its confinement protocols. Considering the technology on display in the ship, it would not be much of a stretch to assume the Emissary's name starts with a "D" and ends with "ormin." Then it's tragic for a different reason.
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Dec 12, 2016 15:56
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Not directly related to the current conversation - but something else that I've been thinking about - I wonder if the villagers are the descendants of the civilization from the valley. They seem to still share a tradition of building tall, vertical structures, albeit now limited to wood.
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Dec 12, 2016 16:50
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So I'm on the fence buying this. I never really played ICO, but I loved Shadow of the Colossus. Should I pay 50 Euros getting TLG?
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Dec 12, 2016 17:04
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I'm sure we always assume spoiler chat is only if you best the game so here goeswhat's the stuff about the emissary? Can you tell me where you should see that stuff? I barely remember anything about that and I don't remember a ship or anything.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:14
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Ineffiable posted:I'm sure we always assume spoiler chat is only if you best the game so here goeswhat's the stuff about the emissary? Can you tell me where you should see that stuff? I barely remember anything about that and I don't remember a ship or anything. I call it the Emissary after the Trophy names for the game - Fleet Emissary, Swift Emissary etc. It's never mentioned in-game, and you only see (what little you can see of) the Emissary in the room where you get the mirror shield from the mummy sarcophagus thing - or rather, where you retrieve the master control key from its slot in the cryo pod. That room is actually inside the final tower which, if you look closely, contrasts pretty sharply with surrounding architecture and is reminiscent of a multi-stage rocket or even a present-day space station. It was aliens all along.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:11
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LordMune posted:I call it the Emissary after the Trophy names for the game - Fleet Emissary, Swift Emissary etc. It's never mentioned in-game, and you only see (what little you can see of) the Emissary in the room where you get the mirror shield from the mummy sarcophagus thing - or rather, where you retrieve the master control key from its slot in the cryo pod. That room is actually inside the final tower which, if you look closely, contrasts pretty sharply with surrounding architecture and is reminiscent of a multi-stage rocket or even a present-day space station. I have no idea why you're using that trophy to apply the name to sarcophagus dude. The trophy title is referring to the speed and skill of the player. An emissary is someone on a specific mission, normally on behalf of another party. If you beat the game in under five hours you are a Lightning Emissary, because you saved the Tricos super fast. Under 15 hours and you were a Fleet Emissary, under 30 and you were a Spry Emissary, and if you never die you were an Untouchable Emissary. The title refers to the player unambiguously, connecting to whoever is in the sarcophagus or built the tower seems arbitrary as hell. I thought the sarcophagus room was in the tower as well originally too, but it's actually deep within the mountain. The tower is in the opposite direction of where the room was when you first exit the cave, and it doesn't connect with the ground at all until much further down into the valley, below the mist. No way the cave even connected to it. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 00:33
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I'm just having fun. You're right in that the sarcophagus room likely isn't directly connected to the tower, but it's interesting that those are the only two places in the game that break so distinctly with everything else. Personally I find that the antennas, obvious biological weaponization of the cat-eagles, the large-scale cooling mechanism and sci-fi aesthetics of the tower, and quasi-spacesuit imagery of the sarcophagus all add up to a pretty neat take on the "ancient mythological beings/gods were aliens" trope.
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Dec 13, 2016 00:57
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My biggest issue with this so far besides the usual camera/framerate stuff is the constant tutorials. Hint popups, control reminders, that constant irritating voice-over. Wish there was a way to shut it all off.
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Dec 13, 2016 03:43
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TheMostFrench posted:Our Trico eats the player a few times throughout the game but just spits him up again. Trico isn't fully under control of the master during those segments though. It fades to black and Trico is back to normal. I think the red-eyed mask-wearing Tricos are fully under control, so they collect and regurgitate the children for processing into barrels.
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Dec 13, 2016 05:24
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LordMune posted:I'm just having fun. You're right in that the sarcophagus room likely isn't directly connected to the tower, but it's interesting that those are the only two places in the game that break so distinctly with everything else. While we're having fun speculating about that room and connections to previous Ueda games, this is an interesting similarity posted on reddit (From the start of each game, but spoilered just in case): 
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Dec 13, 2016 07:26
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I'm loving this as a game, but I can't agree with those saying the framerate isn't a big deal. When I hit an outdoors area I want to stop playing because of how uncomfortable it is to look at. I wouldn't expect this from a £10 Wii game let alone a full price, highly anticipated title. On the flip side I'm not really understanding the complaints about Trico. I'm only around 90 minutes in but I've not really had any problems with him doing what needs to be done. He doesn't race over and will be hesitant or explorative, but when I've needed him to go to a place he generally just does it. The only frustration in terms of gameplay are that the terrible camera makes some jumps easy to miss, and the constant reminders of the controls. stev fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 08:28
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Bugblatter posted:While we're having fun speculating about that room and connections to previous Ueda games, this is an interesting similarity posted on reddit (From the start of each game, but spoilered just in case): That's the good stuff. The reoccurrence of that little pool - how it's associated with sealing and rebirth in SotC - and the icy mist in the room is what eventually made me settle on the sarcophagus being a cryo pod. Another obvious parallel: in SotC a light-reflecting sword is thrown into the pool to seal something. In TLG a light-projecting shield is removed from the room - unsealing something? Also, the dimensions are way off but layout-wise, the sarcophagus is placed analogously to where the colossi statues and resurrection altar are in SotC (across from the entrance, several floors up in SotC and walled-up in TLG but still visible at the boy's 1 o'clock in that image).
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Dec 13, 2016 08:57
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I decided not to read this thread until I beat the game so now that I'm done I can say I really liked it. One of the few games in a while that I've actually liked enough that I played it for a really long time without wanting to take a break. Now to just wait if there's any crazy hidden stuff like in SotC. TheMostFrench posted:I am also biased because I had been looking forward to it, heard it was cancelled, and then heard about it again a week before it came out. There's a degree of personal closure from all the years I thought 'man it would have been cool to see them finish The Last Guardian'. I'm with you, I was looking forward to this ever since it was first announced. Then every year or two I would google to see if there was any word on if it was coming out or not. I remember checking what E3 news there had been while I was asleep and got super exited when this was shown. I'm glad I was finally able to play it. Demicol fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 18:01
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Okey, I waited about a half hour before asking this... I'm pretty early in the game; Trico and I are outside again after our first handful of encounters with the samurai spearchucker robots. Specifically, there's an area on the other side of a huge gap with a robot sitting on a ledge. However, on this side of the gap, there's a lever about Trico's height, as well as a food barrel, but the motherfucker just doesn't get it. He won't stand up to give me the leverage I need to get up there. Am I supposed to go back later once I'm given the ability to issue him specific commands?
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Dec 13, 2016 21:04
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Could you post a screenshot? I'm having trouble thinking of a place that matches the description.
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Dec 13, 2016 23:09
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This game's been an uneven experience so far but the bit after the second antenna cage room kind of hurt. It kind of hurt a lot. You can see the gears in poor Trico's head turning as he tries to figure out how to resuscitate the kid. "Ok, you don't feel like moving right now, that's fine, I'll just carry you up to the next ledge myself! Great, all done! Now get up, this is the part where you tell me what to do next. Right? ...right? ...no?" 
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Dec 14, 2016 02:57
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Man just wait... But yeah that sequence is good. The animation is fantastic. I especially like that on my second playthrough after the kid gets up I had him pet Trico's snout and Trico did a joyful little jumping dance in response. It was adorable. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 04:37
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This voiceover seriously needs to go, though. It's so obvious that it was added in post.
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Dec 14, 2016 04:49
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Oxxidation posted:This voiceover seriously needs to go, though. It's so obvious that it was added in post. So far as clarifying narration goes, it's not the worst. It's at least silent for most of the key dramatic moments. I do wish the hints could be turned off, especially the last one. On my first one, when I got to the end realizing on my own that I had to send Trico away was quite a punch to the gut. The second time, the narrator said the player had to do as much before I did it. I was glad to have been faster than him the first time, as it would have lessened to moment if it hadn't felt as much like my choice.
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Dec 14, 2016 08:46
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So does anyone know how this sold? I'm guessing not brilliantly by the overwhelming silence surrounding it.
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Dec 16, 2016 11:15
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enojy posted:Okey, I waited about a half hour before asking this... There's a gate you can fit through below where that lever is. Go through there.
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Dec 16, 2016 11:56
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