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What are you talking about? Its perfectly legal in my country.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:49
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Caesar Saladin posted:What are you talking about? Its perfectly legal in my country. I'd go with technically legal instead of perfectly. The rules around it are all hosed up.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:51
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yikes, what the gently caress country do you live in where thats still illegal call girling was one of the things that got me through college and that was decades ago
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Apr 2, 2021 06:28
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It's not?
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Apr 2, 2021 06:50
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It was legal in Rhode Island until about ten years ago because of some weird loophole in the law and then legislators decided to fix that loophole.
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Apr 2, 2021 19:48
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Xenocides posted:The last time I looked the statistical consensus is that legalizing prostitution expands the market beyond the markets ability to supply it and areas where prostitution is legal generally have more undocumented sex workers and human trafficking than those that do not. The solution would be to increase the supply of sex workers but you cannot increase pay without pricing pushing people back into the black markets and most people understandably don’t want to be sex workers and using any kind of duress or incentive has all kinds of ethical issues. instead of artificially inflating the supply they should artificially restrict demand. make people get Sex Licenses before they're allowed to see a prostitute. you have to be able to parallel park and do a three point turn with a realdoll before they let you into the brothels
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Apr 2, 2021 19:54
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why would the government legalize what is almost certainly a cash transaction between two individuals that cant be taxed
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Apr 2, 2021 20:43
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Xenocides posted:The last time I looked the statistical consensus is that legalizing prostitution expands the market beyond the markets ability to supply it and areas where prostitution is legal generally have more undocumented sex workers and human trafficking than those that do not. The solution would be to increase the supply of sex workers but you cannot increase pay without pricing pushing people back into the black markets and most people understandably don’t want to be sex workers and using any kind of duress or incentive has all kinds of ethical issues. Why wouldn't the solution to too much demand just be to raise their prices? No more people would be "pushed" into the black market than are already currently willing to use the already existing black market. If sex workers currently are charging less than they "should" be, that is just yet another way they're currently being taken advantage of. Straight White Shark posted:instead of artificially inflating the supply they should artificially restrict demand. make people get Sex Licenses before they're allowed to see a prostitute. you have to be able to parallel park and do a three point turn with a realdoll before they let you into the brothels Coming up with extremely vague ways to poopoo the whole things sounds like "sure less sex workers will get literally murdered if we legalize it in ways that protect them, but also maybe some bad stuff could just kind of start happening for no reason if we do that? so who can say what really matters" e: it sounds like a lot of the extremely wishy-washy vague arguments against legalizing the sale of marijuana too, where people somehow get concerned that creating a legal market will somehow... also attract more attention to the black market? Even though the black market is currently the only available option? And then when they actually implement safe, easy, and yes, more expensive legal weed stores, it turns out a fuckton of people will go that route every time instead of black market stuff. o and as far as the answer to the question, imo it is literally nothing beyond "prostitution is illegal in order to control women and remove their economic freedom" Martman fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 20:55
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Specifically to jail your mom, op
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Apr 2, 2021 21:14
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Best way to ensure economic freedom is welfare state and not enabling people to self destruct for money easier
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Apr 2, 2021 21:15
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Martman posted:And then when they actually implement safe, easy, and yes, more expensive legal weed stores, it turns out a fuckton of people will go that route every time instead of black market stuff. has legal weed ever been more expensive than illegal weed? I've lived in multiple states that legalized and it got much much cheaper both times
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Apr 2, 2021 21:17
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Colonel Cancer posted:Best way to ensure economic freedom is welfare state and not enabling people to self destruct for money easier Tip posted:has legal weed ever been more expensive than illegal weed? I've lived in multiple states that legalized and it got much much cheaper both times Martman fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 21:17
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I didn't realize you had to be a woman to engage in prostitution 
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Apr 2, 2021 21:20
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Martman posted:This makes no sense to me. Of course sex workers are going to be focused in areas where they are able to do sex work more safely. Comparing a legal city/county/area to an illegal one and saying "look there are more undocumented workers here, obviously they are creating them here" doesn't sound like anything a statistician would say? In Massachusetts weed is legal but if you want to open up a store that sells it you have to pay something ridiculous like upwards of a hundred grand in all kinds of licensing fees to even get started. And that's before you even have a store front or any product. So unsurprisingly people go around that entirely and just sell poo poo on their own especially since it's legal to grow it yourself as long as you have under a certain number of plants. Basically what I'm saying is that the government getting involved in legal sex work would very likely result in some situation where people would be reluctant to obtain licenses or whatever documentation becomes necessary.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:20
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Right but my point is that that hypothetical black market already exists. Instead of some people getting licenses and some people not getting them, right now no one does (I mean for sex work, or e.g. states where weed is still illegal). So it is extremely suspicious to frame the argument as "this will lead to black market activity" instead of "this will create some amount of legal and regulated activity."
Martman fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 21:23
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Colonel Cancer posted:I didn't realize you had to be a woman to engage in prostitution I'm talking about harm reduction, not enforcing gender norms. All sex workers would benefit from legal systems that protect them, but right now there are tons of women doing very dangerous work and politically people are not finding that worth addressing.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:27
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Tip posted:has legal weed ever been more expensive than illegal weed? I've lived in multiple states that legalized and it got much much cheaper both times I live in Mass and I know a whole bunch of people who smoke weed and none of them regularly get it from stores. Martman posted:But the quality is also often way more consistent and good. Maybe you just need a better weed guy. Colonel Cancer posted:I didn't realize you had to be a woman to engage in prostitution I absolutely agree that male sex workers are usually completely ignored but I never hear any objections to sex work that aren't just some misogynist bullshit about what women are "supposed" to do. It's the same bullshit with abortion. None of these "pro-life" ghouls care about lives otherwise they'd stop voting for people who gut social services or protest the death penalty and wars. I should also add that I don't think male sex workers should be left out of the conversation either. It's just that this is how it's already framed for the most part. CPL593H fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 21:29
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How can I start selling my body?
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Apr 2, 2021 21:34
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Chinatown posted:I LOVE BIGFOOT TITTIES!!!
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Apr 2, 2021 21:35
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CPL593H posted:I live in Mass and I know a whole bunch of people who smoke weed and none of them regularly get it from stores. I'm really curious what the legal/illegal prices are like there. I just bought an eighth of weed tested at 21% thc for $6, and the cheapest eighths I could buy before legalization were $20. I remember before legalization there was a lot of talk about the right/wrong ways to legalize and how a bunch of states had screwed up. I think a big part of it involved making sure it would end up cheaper/easier than the black market to incentivize legal purchasing, but I don't remember what was specifically different about our plan.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:39
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Martman posted:Right but my point is that that hypothetical black market already exists. Instead of some people getting licenses and some people not getting them, right now no one does (I mean for sex work, or e.g. states where weed is still illegal). So it is extremely suspicious to frame the argument as "this will lead to black market activity" instead of "this will create some amount of legal and regulated activity." It’s not like there haven’t been studied on this. The mechanism is pretty straight forward. Legalization leads to increased demand, people who would be interested but are either too scared of the law or too incompetent to find illegal prostitution have entered the market. Supply doesn’t change as much: prostitution is near the bottom of things people are willing to do for money and the people who are desperate or willing when it’s legalized were often desperate or willing enough to do it when it was illegal. Demand outstrips the would be legal supply and encourages more sex trafficking, it’s not like the people who utilize these services are gonna look into their prostitute’s credentials to verify everything is on the up and up. I’m not personally saying I know one way or the other on this, but it’s not something you need to go to the ground for in a rumble with goons. You can just google it and read papers that address the idea that legalization increases trafficking, there’s plenty of evidence in support of that hypothesis and I’m sure there’s case studies on the other side too. It’s not a new idea though and it’s nothing like claiming weed is a gateway drug or whatever.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:40
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Tip posted:has legal weed ever been more expensive than illegal weed? I've lived in multiple states that legalized and it got much much cheaper both times Because of state taxes legal weed is slightly more expensive than what my former connect charged but I also don't have to blow away half a day hanging out pretending to be their friend or hearing their musings about the world before getting it and continuing on with my day. Cool guy and all, but fair price to pay to cut down on all of that and be in and out in under ten minutes, really. There's no expectation that I'm getting a certain amount or they won't bother to meet up, too.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:43
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Tip posted:I'm really curious what the legal/illegal prices are like there. I just bought an eighth of weed tested at 21% thc for $6, and the cheapest eighths I could buy before legalization were $20. I’m from Seattle and for the first couple years after legalizing in WA it was still way cheaper to just buy from friends and acquaintances that somewhere down the line knew someone with a medical grow operation. In the past so many years I’d say the prices about equalized and it’s not hard to find good deals at a dispensary. Plus there’s the main bonus of not having to pretend to enjoy the company of your friends dealer for however long is socially required to make them not feel like it’s just a drug deal. Can’t put a price on that.
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Apr 2, 2021 21:44
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I think when this information is abused so obviously in ways that just happen to create politically convenient ways to poo poo on certain groups of people it's important to be very skeptical of what's actually being claimed and proven in studies. I've seen all kinds of studies that love to doomsay about "human trafficking" in ways that completely obfuscate what kind of work is actually being done. And when you talk about one area legalizing sex work and seeing increases in demand, it seems really complicated to account for how much that one area is now becoming the only legal market for all surrounding areas, and then trying to extrapolate that to what it would be like if the whole region was legal. quote:Demand outstrips the would be legal supply and encourages more sex trafficking, it’s not like the people who utilize these services are gonna look into their prostitute’s credentials to verify everything is on the up and up. e: I guess I'm particularly confused because I think there's some implication that legalizing it like, pumps up an abstract Demand number, and then when the legal supply runs out, that Demand number is still all pumped up and and will now have to find even more black market options than before I think legal markets increase demand for legal options, and I don't think these studies are proving that supplying legal sex work leads to any increased demand for illegal sex work. Again, of course more sex workers are going to go to areas where they can do sex work safely. When this is all lumped in as "human trafficking" you encounter crazed groups of people who think that the Superbowl is catered to by thousands of women who were literally stolen "Taken"-style from American streets by Illuminati-like gangs Martman fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 21:52
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The same thing does happen with marijuana. People move to states where it is legal and often the illegal suppliers still make up a lot of the market. The difference is that legal sellers can grow more weed if demand goes up and if it is regulations making it too expensive those can be changed. With prostitution you cannot just grow more prostitutes. You can try to incentivize prostitution but I don’t think most people are comfortable with that idea. I’m not.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:04
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Legalization means accessibility, and every Christian wife knows her husband is sprinting to the gently caress barn (name pending) the second it opens. No way it could ever be voted in.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:06
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Martman posted:This makes no sense to me. Of course sex workers are going to be focused in areas where they are able to do sex work more safely. Comparing a legal city/county/area to an illegal one and saying "look there are more undocumented workers here, obviously they are creating them here" doesn't sound like anything a statistician would say? Martman posted:No more people would be "pushed" into the black market than are already currently willing to use the already existing black market. And on the other side, women are pushed into prostitution for many reasons and none of them go away just by legalization. Not everyone who does prostitution wants to be a sex worker. quote:If sex workers currently are charging less than they "should" be, that is just yet another way they're currently being taken advantage of. These are not arguments that legalizing sex work shouldn't be considered, but just that it's not an open and shut "and now everything is great for sex workers".
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Apr 2, 2021 22:07
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I think right now you have a ton of people who have been raised in a culture that would rather they be shamed and controlled by their sexuality rather than ever benefit from it. So I agree that is a complicated issue. But right now X number of people are still willing to do this work despite all its dangers, often because the money can be really good. What if they could make the same or more money, and it was also just flat out safer and easier? e: quote:but just that it's not an open and shut "and now everything is great for sex workers" quote:People who are being forced into prostitution have a harder time escaping because they have to prove the "forced" part, rather than just the whole activity being illegal. Martman fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 2, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2021 22:08
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Klyith posted:There are many ways that people can be taken advantage of, and one of the downsides of legalized sex work is that it's harder to prosecute some abuses when sex work in general is legal. Sex workers have their lives improved because they can call the cops on an abusive customer. People who are being forced into prostitution have a harder time escaping because they have to prove the "forced" part, rather than just the whole activity being illegal. While sex work is illegal then people who are being forced into prostitution can't escape because they'll go to prison if they call the cops. Not seeing how it becomes harder to escape once they are able to call the cops without fear of prison. Of course there's still the same amount of fear that they'll be raped and murdered by the cops, because cops are gonna cop.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:15
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Klyith posted:People who are being forced into prostitution have a harder time escaping because they have to prove the "forced" part, rather than just the whole activity being illegal. I don't get this. Currently if they get caught and they can't prove the forced thing they get charged with a crime. I'm having a hard time imagining this scenario, "Police, please help me! I'm being held against my will and forced to have sex with people for money!" "Sorry, prostitution is legal, so I'm gonna need you to provide more evidence."
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Apr 2, 2021 22:16
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I think in a larger sense it's frustrating to treat demand for "sex work" as some specific thing that's divorced from demand for sex. I am very skeptical that changing the legal status of sex work changes the actual underlying demand for sex itself, so then you have to get into the question of like... well ok if they're not getting it from sex work, are we saying that demand should just be left unmet? And isn't it weird how insane groups of men who feel like they will never get to have the sex they want are some of the most dangerous terrorists in the U.S.? So like, yes, the social stigma associated with using sex workers may go down if it is legalized. That is a good thing. Our country is full of incels and anti-sex puritans who want all sex to be shameful, and it is leading to awful awful consequences.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:19
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Martman posted:And isn't it weird how insane groups of men who feel like they will never get to have the sex they want are some of the most dangerous terrorists in the U.S.? we don't negotiate with sex terrorists
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Apr 2, 2021 22:21
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You aren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists bub
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Apr 2, 2021 22:21
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its illegal because it empowers women
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Apr 2, 2021 22:22
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Klyith posted:Yes. And then you have a portion of people who want to pay for sex, but are unable to afford the higher prices of the legal sex workers who are doing the job because they want to. Those people may turn elsewhere and seek out the black market. This doesn't make any sense. Look at the relationship between San Diego area and Tijuana. North of the border, sex work is illegal and the 'black market' exists and pricing is very high. South of the border sex work is legal (or at least decriminalized depending on how you read the laws) and sex workers are both incredibly abundant both inside the 'zone of tolerance' and outside it in the form of escorts, and very cheap (relative to the black market in San Diego). This real-life situation would indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying would happen if prostitution was legalized everywhere.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:22
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have prostitution be legal but not buying, very easy.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:23
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My point is to create less incels in the future, not coddle and provide for the ones that are already too dangerous.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:24
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No amount of sex will cure incels, the problem is their toxic masculinity and greater culture that encourages it
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Apr 2, 2021 22:26
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Martman posted:My point is to create less incels in the future, not coddle and provide for the ones that are already too dangerous. No sex worker should have to deal with incels. They need serious, intensive therapy and/or being fired into the sun by a very powerful cannon.
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Apr 2, 2021 22:28
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Martman posted:
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Apr 2, 2021 22:28
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