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SoggyBobcat posted:I was stuck on one mission in the GDI campaign for OVER A loving DECADE from how badly the patches hosed over the campaign. Now imagine playing all the campaigns on Hard in 2022. It's quite a different experience - in the same manner as hitting yourself in the crotch with a mallet is a different experience to the standard manual mode. @OP, as I'm the wikicat guilty of running the OG CNC wiki for a while, want me to go over the finer details of the lore?
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Sep 12, 2022 08:00
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Tagaziel posted:Now imagine playing all the campaigns on Hard in 2022. It's quite a different experience - in the same manner as hitting yourself in the crotch with a mallet is a different experience to the standard manual mode. I'd like to hear more about this. Because I'd love to know what's happened here, and if there are exploits for getting around it all.
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Sep 12, 2022 08:03
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The primary issue is that the campaigns were designed around the release date balance, not the one it ultimately ended up with at the end of its life cycle. This isn't as noticeable in the early or sandbox missions, but is quite apparent when you play heavily scripted or commando missions. The biggest issue is the final Nod campaign mission, the defense of Kane's Tower, which was pleasantly challenging at release, but in the wake of buffs and nerfs it became a nightmare on Hard: Scrin are very passive and confused, GDI AI is immediately active and very aggressive against both you and Scrin, with two full bases + advanced resourcing, and a bonus platoon of Juggernauts bombing the force shield generators from the beginning of the mission. Essentially, you're multitasking from the moment the mission starts and you have razor-thin margins of error. If anything goes wrong - and it usually does - it cascades into mission failure. The only reliably sane way to do it is to immediately start capping the purple guys' structures and start teching up to storm towers and devastators/carriers, then pray that you have enough resources to win the attrition. Tagaziel fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 09:36
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Tagaziel posted:<LATE GAME DETAIL> Spoilers? Or y'know, you could not mention the factions? I know it's an old game, but let's pretend there might be someone who isn't familiar with it.
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Sep 12, 2022 09:46
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Oops. Fixed the post, sorry. I'm not accustomed to people being genuinely interested in C&C, mostly just us old fucks who know the games and the stories like the backs of our hands.
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Sep 12, 2022 10:11
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Might want to spoiler the units as well.
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Sep 12, 2022 10:15
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Looks like a GDI file after a FOIA request now xD Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll try to keep it mind from now on.
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Sep 12, 2022 10:21
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THE BAR posted:Has the cutscenes always stuttered this much? ??? Also yeah keep spoilers to a minimum, I honestly don't remember just where the story goes and like... 80% or the units I've forgotten and can onky vaguely guess at.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:30
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I didn't notice the cutscenes "stuttering," but there were moments of odd audio "ducking" at points during the GDI cutscene where the volume dipped for just a couple of seconds, like it would if you were adding commentary.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:48
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PurpleXVI posted:I didn't notice the cutscenes "stuttering," but there were moments of odd audio "ducking" at points during the GDI cutscene where the volume dipped for just a couple of seconds, like it would if you were adding commentary. Yeah on the first video, that is fixed for subsequent episodes 
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Sep 12, 2022 11:52
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I prefer Tiberian Sun over this almost solely due to the former's far better art direction/soundtrack and more entertaining characters. I don't care much for NOD basic soldiers devolving from their sci-fi aesthetic in Sun to war on terror militia looking dudes. Andrews AFB
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Sep 12, 2022 13:12
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Yeah, the fact that there's infantry that's not mutants outside of sealed suits makes the yellow zones look a lot less deadly than the world felt in 2, also now tiberium kills don't seem to cause visceroids and that just makes the hellworld climate crisis less bad.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:07
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SIGSEGV posted:Yeah, the fact that there's infantry that's not mutants outside of sealed suits makes the yellow zones look a lot less deadly than the world felt in 2, also now tiberium kills don't seem to cause visceroids and that just makes the hellworld climate crisis less bad. I think most of the Tiberian Sun hellworld stuff has been moved to the red zones in this game, and there are indications that GDI has learned how to contain and slowly push back the tiberium threat. One of my bugbears with the storytelling in the Tiberium series is that GDI perpetually feels like they're just maintaining the status quo instead of proactively making a difference to improve the world. I think that's half the appeal of Kane, he's the one actually moving and shaking things in the story while GDI just reacts and defends.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:11
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Well yeah, I think the series as a whole can't really decide if Kane is a comically evil menace or kinda soooorta right
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Sep 12, 2022 15:39
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Fangz posted:Well yeah, I think the series as a whole can't really decide if Kane is a comically evil menace or kinda soooorta right In the first C&C, Nod was pretty obviously evil. I remember intentional attacks on civilians. In Tiberian Sun, Nod was a bit less war crimey and Kane seemed notably smarter than the opposition. In my opinion, this game is the one where Kane comes across as the most... protagonisty? I recall it as being the one where Nod does the least blatantly evil stuff and where Kane most obviously has the upper hand, in terms of just being a smarter person who's got this all planned out, than GDI. We'll see if I recall it correctly, of course.  And I personally like that we see some of the Blue Zones this time around. Having a sense that there's something normal around worth fighting for, rather than endless beige wastelands, helps keep me invested.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:41
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PurpleXVI posted:In the first C&C, Nod was pretty obviously evil. I remember intentional attacks on civilians. Both sides had poo poo going for them. GDI openly devastates civilian villages in the final Nod missions (it's something they did not change for Remastered, indicating a deliberate choice), uses war-torn African countries for covert weapons development, and of course is fighting valiantly against a faction that implements cheap, efficient Tiberium harvesting methods that would give impoverished countries a shot at getting a proper industry. It's one of those things that are only really apparent once you abandon the unspoken assumption that West = Good and take a look at history. Kind of yikes with large-scale superweapon development on a UN budget in countries just out of a violent civil war. The characterization really goes on to make Kane correct over the course of the games. I might not be a fan of Tiberian Twilight, but it showed that once GDI gets over itself, the world recovers - working with Kane is a crucial part of that. In a way, this makes all of GDI's actions just making the world worse off - and really, the world does get worse every time GDI wins. Laughing Zealot posted:I don't care much for NOD basic soldiers devolving from their sci-fi aesthetic in Sun to war on terror militia looking dudes. That's kind of because Tiberium Wars puts much more emphasis on the social and political context of the Brotherhood than Westwood ever did. In Dawn and Sun you were playing as, essentially, commanders of elite forces tasked with very specific goals (in Dawn after you get Klingon promoted, ofc). Especially in Sun your choice of weapons reflects that status. In Wars, you're a commander of the general purpose land forces, so it's not all glamorous elites in proper armor. Wish Kane's Wrath would play with this and also rename the militant squad. Tagaziel fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 17:14
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Mordja posted:TW is the second best Sage-engine game after Generals, but it is definitely the ugliest C&C imo. It's just so washed out and I dislike many of its unit and building designs. I desperately realized I needed to update this post. The canonical Sage-engine order is: Generals/ZH>BFME2/RotWK>C&C3>BFME>RA3 
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Sep 12, 2022 17:38
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Tagaziel posted:Both sides had poo poo going for them. GDI openly devastates civilian villages in the final Nod missions (it's something they did not change for Remastered, indicating a deliberate choice), uses war-torn African countries for covert weapons development, and of course is fighting valiantly against a faction that implements cheap, efficient Tiberium harvesting methods that would give impoverished countries a shot at getting a proper industry. It's one of those things that are only really apparent once you abandon the unspoken assumption that West = Good and take a look at history. Kind of yikes with large-scale superweapon development on a UN budget in countries just out of a violent civil war. And all this would have been avoided had Kane told anyone the loving truth about anything.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:44
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Would they listen?
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Sep 12, 2022 17:56
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Tagaziel posted:Would they listen? If he provided any actual evidence? Probably! He just expects people to take him at his word and go along with it because he knows better, and takes it personally when people don't trust him. His entire beef with GDI is 'These people don't arbitrarily trust me and do everything I say, therefore they are the enemy.'
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Sep 12, 2022 17:59
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah on the first video, that is fixed for subsequent episodes Ah, that was probably it, yeah.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:03
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I kinda feel like the more positive side of Kane is something of a retcon. My impression from the first game is that Kane's pretty much another side of the Tiberium infestation, working to get the global economy addicted to it, sowing conflict and thus helping spread it everywhere.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:42
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Tagaziel posted:Oops. Fixed the post, sorry. I'm not accustomed to people being genuinely interested in C&C, mostly just us old fucks who know the games and the stories like the backs of our hands. i'm not sure how many people here are unspoiled on it either but that's been Jobbo's requested policy since the C&C1 thread, so we just sorta go with it Tagaziel posted:Both sides had poo poo going for them. GDI openly devastates civilian villages in the final Nod missions (it's something they did not change for Remastered, indicating a deliberate choice), oh this is probably what Killian was referring to, then Psion fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 19:06
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Psion posted:i'm not sure how many people here are unspoiled on it either but that's been Jobbo's requested policy since the C&C1 thread, so we just sorta go with it It seems like we have to go over it again in every new thread, though.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:10
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"new thread who dis" but also it's been a while since Generals/ZH, and at least among threads I read this is the outlier in spoiler policy. still, it's no big deal to just wait a couple videos to post something.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:11
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Fangz posted:I kinda feel like the more positive side of Kane is something of a retcon. My impression from the first game is that Kane's pretty much another side of the Tiberium infestation, working to get the global economy addicted to it, sowing conflict and thus helping spread it everywhere. This game really is the culmination from what Sun started with Tiberium as an oil+climate change analogy. You can see this with the blue zones roughly correlating with the developed world, and the red zones roughly mapping to the areas expected to be unsuitable to human life once climate change really start to hit the fan.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:06
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Tree Reformat posted:This game really is the culmination from what Sun started with Tiberium as an oil+climate change analogy. You can see this with the blue zones roughly correlating with the developed world, and the red zones roughly mapping to the areas expected to be unsuitable to human life once climate change really start to hit the fan. That's not really true at all though: some of the largest red and yellow zones are actually Europe and Australia, while blue zones include west Africa, the tip of south America, Oman and central Asia.
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Sep 12, 2022 23:14
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Fangz posted:I kinda feel like the more positive side of Kane is something of a retcon. My impression from the first game is that Kane's pretty much another side of the Tiberium infestation, working to get the global economy addicted to it, sowing conflict and thus helping spread it everywhere. He is also perfectly happy to encourage and promote psychos into positions of power. See: basically every single NOD character you ever see in any of the games.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:24
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Kane is a bad person, he just appears to have access to a lot of information he doesn't want to share because he doesn't really trust anyone, that lack of trust is a major weakness of Nod, as shown in the second game in which it just can't help blowing itself up. Incidentally, at this point the GDI and Nod have accused each other of being fascist states hellbent on world domination, both appear to be more or less entirely correct on that count. Kane may have an additional agenda on top, but he doesn't seem to mind being hellbent on world domination.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:31
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Psion posted:"new thread who dis" Generals was literally the only lp where jobbo hasn't had a gigantic no spoilers policy that people ignored and got chewed out for. And I would wager that has more to do with it having gently caress all for a plot and relatively tame units for the series
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Sep 13, 2022 00:41
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NOD 02: Andrews Air Force Base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hlSajjEZAY NOD 02: Andrews AFB  With the destruction of the Philadelphia, the GDI is reeling from the loss of their command structure, making them ripe for attack. Andrews Air Force Base is a critical link in GDI's airlift and airpower capability in the region, and destroying this will limit their ability to strike at us, or to reinforce any exposed or cut off troops. Strike fast, destroy everything - Do not waste this opportunity!   Something tells me we haven't quite moved away from Goddard Space Center...  Location: Washington, DC, USA. Objective: Destroy the GDI airfields and the Control Tower Okay I should probably add the actual briefings now... Briefing: Our Theater Command Cell has ordered a coordinated attack on all GDI air bases in this region to take out GDI's air support. Your target is Andrews Air Force Base in Washington, DC. You'll take command of a strike force near the base entrance. Start by clearing any GDI troops in the surrounding area, establish an outpost, and then infiltrate the base itself. Once you're inside the base, job one is to destroy the airfields used by Orca ground attack aircraft. Your very presence inside the base will also shut down GDI's use of military airlift capability. Author's note: Straightforward, which is to be expected, although with a small hiccup when tasked with taking out the Control Tower.   Name: Ajay (Arjay?) Aliases: None Affiliation: NOD Occupation: Military Planning Expert Voiced/Played by: Josh Holloway Ajay is NOD's military planning expert. A brilliant intelligence officer and a cunning tactician, Ajay has repeatedly proven his ability to create blueprints for complex - and very successful - military operations. An experienced soldier, Ajay is never far from the front lines where his brothers fight to execute his plans. Author's Note: Weird, creepy. Friendly, but in a weird way. Will probably take a bullet for you, or castrate you.   Raider Buggy RANGE: Short ARMOR: Buggy WEAPON: Machine Gun COST: 500 Equipped with burst-firing machineguns that can make short work of infantry and light targets, the Raider Buggy is the most common NOD vehicle. Author's Note: A straight upgrade from Tiberian Sun's Buggy, I absolutely love that they kept the original unit all the way back from TD while keeping it good/relevant, yet not overpowered or useless.  Attack Bike RANGE: Short-Medium ARMOR: Bike WEAPON: Side-mounted Rocket Launchers COST: 600 The Attack Bike - quick, armed and equipped with an advanced scanner array - is the ultimate scout for NOD forces. It is respectably powerful against aircraft, as well. Author's Note: While not quite as great as the Buggy, it feels a niche alongside it - providing heavier firepower - allowing the dynamic to continue and flourish. Their range is shorter than I'd expect, however.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:50
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Regarding spoilers, the big reason is that I legit don't remember where the stories go sometimes, and I like to have surprise reveals for myself. I think it also helps for people who follow these threads but haven't played the games, or kept the stories as a backdrop when playing, something I tend to do myself sometimes  . I know it can be frustrating for people to have to contend with the spoiler policy since, in C&C3's case it's been years in the making (or waiting) for some of the folks out there, which I truly appreciate you all for sticking around for it.We'll get to the story beats eventually, rest assured, and there's even characters/units that will come up that I am excited to see people's reactions of just because of what they are. I only wield oh-so-much-power (which is to say none), so thank you to those (and apologies to the same, and/or others) who followed the policy even if it meant I had to be a bit of a dick about it. (Also I've forgotten like... everything about RA3 and I've never played whatever C&C 4 is - this isn't an invitation to talk about them yet  )
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Sep 13, 2022 00:57
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Oh my god you have no idea what you're in for CnC4, You are in for a treat. I might however propose you LP a second game next to CnC4 so you can compare and contrast things.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:58
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SIGSEGV posted:Oh my god you have no idea what you're in for CnC4, You are in for a treat. I might however propose you LP a second game next to CnC4 so you can compare and contrast things. We'll see when we get there, but am open to it . You might have to remind me by the time we get there though, haha.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:59
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Since the main difference between the previous CnC games and CnC4 is moving production units, which I don't think can be a spoiler, aside from the game existing, which implies that on some level the story doesn't end at the end of CnC3, I propose you play Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak at the same time. DoK is six years older, but I'm of the opinion that in a post-Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance world (i.e. some abused our computers into doing all that), that means the limits in what tech put on RTS game design have more or less been ground into paste.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:06
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re: the novelization mentioned in this video - I've not read it, but it was apparently widely reviled by pretty much everyone who did lol
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Sep 13, 2022 01:59
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Set expectations low low low
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Sep 13, 2022 02:03
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Set expectations low low low Worse than the motion comic? It's meant to lead into 4 apparently, I misremembered it as being Tibarian Sun, but it was not very good either.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:09
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Chronische posted:Worse than the motion comic? It's meant to lead into 4 apparently, I misremembered it as being Tibarian Sun, but it was not very good either. Never heard of it  When I say I know nothing after Red Alert 3, I mean it.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:10
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Looks like youtube doesn't want to give out the video in anything higher than 360p.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:19
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