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Got a question for you goons. My internet connection tops out at about 38Mbps down, about 8Mbps up. Getting a fibre-to-the-premises connection is years away in my area so I'm basically stuck with those speeds. If I get something like an LG C9, the built-in streaming apps would automatically stream 4K content, correct? My concern is that I would just end up having video buffered all the time, either that or no one else in the house would be able to use the internet for much if the bandwidth is being taken up by the TV, neither of which is a suitable situation.
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Sep 5, 2019 12:22
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WattsvilleBlues posted:Got a question for you goons. Without good, reliable, well-wired fiber to the house they won't even usually stream 4K content and stay stable.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:59
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Without good, reliable, well-wired fiber to the house they won't even usually stream 4K content and stay stable. So would it drop video streams down to 1080p or something? What happens with HDR imagery if that's the case?
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Sep 5, 2019 18:27
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WattsvilleBlues posted:So would it drop video streams down to 1080p or something? What happens with HDR imagery if that's the case? Yes, and it goes away. It's rather jarring when it jumps between the two, unfortunately.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:51
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Yes, and it goes away. It's rather jarring when it jumps between the two, unfortunately. gently caress. I don't want to start buying 4K HDR blu-rays so the only content I'd have to take advantage of the TV would be my Xbox One X games. Does HDR in games really make a difference as much as people say?
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Sep 5, 2019 19:12
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WattsvilleBlues posted:gently caress. I don't want to start buying 4K HDR blu-rays so the only content I'd have to take advantage of the TV would be my Xbox One X games. Does HDR in games really make a difference as much as people say? Yes and no. Some games have done a really nice job with really nice implementation. Other games have struggled but gotten better. Some games it doesn't matter at all.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:14
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You don't need "well wired" fiber (fiber generally either consistently works 100% or 0% of the time) for UHD streams, and 38Mbps down should be totally fine for 4k streams while doing other things on the network. Vudu recommends 11+Mbps down for their 4k streams, and Netflix recommends 25, though howtogeek tested Netflix 4k streaming bitrate at 8000-16000 kbps. Once you get to the 30Mbps territory you're talking bitrates of uncompressed movies straight off a UHD disc. teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:17
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WattsvilleBlues posted:gently caress. I don't want to start buying 4K HDR blu-rays so the only content I'd have to take advantage of the TV would be my Xbox One X games. Does HDR in games really make a difference as much as people say? PS Also I've been plugging these folks for a while and still happy with 'em https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/Default.asp. They do 2 UHD disc rentals a month for $9. Not a complete selection, and shipping/processing isn't as snappy as say Netflix DVD, but hey stuff is there and the price is right. Most of my UHD stuff is from either there or Vudu streaming (better selection/convenience than the disc route, pay a couple bucks more per movie, stream quality is excellent).
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Sep 5, 2019 19:21
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teh_Broseph posted:You don't need "well wired" fiber (fiber generally either consistently works 100% or 0% of the time) for UHD streams, and 38Mbps down should be totally fine for 4k streams while doing other things on the network. A modern cable connection that doesn't suck will be plenty, even a good 4G connection or the very rare non-poo poo DSL would be fine in most cases.
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Sep 5, 2019 20:40
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Yeah, I had 35mb service for awhile when I was streaming 4k, no significant issues.
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Sep 5, 2019 20:45
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That's some reassurance, thanks. Cheers for the rental recommendation but I'm in the UK 
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Sep 5, 2019 20:58
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Yeah as long as those speeds are reliably solid and you don’t have someone else maxing out a torrent it’ll be fine for Netflix 4K and whatnot. It’s not near disc bitrate but it’s appreciably better, especially the HDR component.
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Sep 6, 2019 00:19
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teh_Broseph posted:Once you get to the 30Mbps territory you're talking bitrates of uncompressed movies straight off a UHD disc. Eh I just looked through a handful of discs and the lowest I saw was 55mbit, rest were 70-80mbit.
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Sep 6, 2019 05:06
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EL BROMANCE posted:Eh I just looked through a handful of discs and the lowest I saw was 55mbit, rest were 70-80mbit. That sounds about right. The highest one I have is, surprisingly, the original Ghost in the Shell, at 91mbps. Skyscraper is up there too at 90. The best 4K streaming from Vudu/Netflix etc. are about 20% of the bitrate of an average 4K blu ray. Here's the thing though, most people don't have a setup to really take advantage of 4K blu ray for a couple of reasons: 1) Most people have their TV too far away from their sitting position. Here is a chart from Rtings showing about what your viewing distances should be for each resolution  A lot of people simply aren't meeting these requirements. Either their TV is too small, or they sit too far away, or both. Therefore a ton of people who have 4K TVs don't even have the ability to discern the detail. These people don't need to care about high bitrate 4K as they literally will not and cannot see the difference. They will however receive HDR benefits, so it's not a total wash. 2) Even if you are one of the rare people who position yourself close enough to your 4K TV, the investment of 4K disc may not be worth it. In my mind you really need a nicer setup... ideally a 65 inch or larger TV that is either OLED or an LED that has relatively good contrast and pulls decent lumens. Add to that a decent amp to decode lossless 7.1 and nice speakers. All in all, it's a lot to ask. Physical discs could easily go the way of the dinosaur, which would suck for people like you and me, but I don't blame most people for not caring. Discs are cumbersome, archaic and expensive. Clearly the real future is 4K remux on digital but the infrastructure just isn't there for most people even if some company did offer it.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:23
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Personally I like owning the things I like watching, and I like streaming everything else. Like I will never, ever watch Handmaid’s Tale a second time, as good as it is, no human being should want to experience it multiple times. Whereas I will watch Broad City many times over, and buy the DVDs because I don’t want to be out in the cold when Comedy Central pulls them off Hulu. I wish they’d give them a proper Blu-ray release, though.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:35
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Taima posted:Clearly the real future is 4K remux on digital but the infrastructure just isn't there for most people even if some company did offer it. I disagree that the infrastructure isn't there. It's that no company sees the need to offer it. Back In The Day(tm) Amazon streaming would download the movie to your device (computer, TiVo) because generally people didn't have the bandwidth to reliably stream HD movies. They eventually got rid of it because the interface was kinda clunky, I think the studios were nervous about people carting around a file with their movie in it, and most people wanted on demand real time streaming. It's only recently come back with the advent of closed platforms w/ TPM's for "offline viewing" on Tablets and similar. There's nothing stopping my TiVo from downloading a 100mbps movie for playback later than no one offers it as a service.
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Sep 6, 2019 09:45
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H110Hawk posted:I disagree that the infrastructure isn't there. It's that no company sees the need to offer it. Back In The Day(tm) Amazon streaming would download the movie to your device (computer, TiVo) because generally people didn't have the bandwidth to reliably stream HD movies. They eventually got rid of it because the interface was kinda clunky, I think the studios were nervous about people carting around a file with their movie in it, and most people wanted on demand real time streaming. It's only recently come back with the advent of closed platforms w/ TPM's for "offline viewing" on Tablets and similar. There's nothing stopping my TiVo from downloading a 100mbps movie for playback later than no one offers it as a service. There's still the issue of being locked out of watching it by DRM because the studio decided to pull it from the service. The other day I tried to listen to a record I have downloaded on Tidal and got a message about the record label disabling streaming. Physical media fixes this but it's so overpriced.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:58
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H110Hawk posted:I disagree that the infrastructure isn't there. It's that no company sees the need to offer it...There's nothing stopping my TiVo from downloading a 100mbps movie for playback later than no one offers it as a service. To be fair that's not what I said. I said the infrastructure isn't there for *most people* which is true. A single 100mbps movie would take 1/10th of your entire monthly cap on xfinity. Data caps alone hamstring this conceptually for the time being, at least in the USA, even assuming you have fast enough internet AND the patience AND the hard drive space vs. streaming a more reasonably sized version off Vudu/Netflix with no wait or fuss. If we ever see a market-ready full quality 4K blu ray digital solution, it won't be for years. However I could see a service coming out that bumps the current 15mbps or so for streaming 4K up to, say, 30 or something.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:00
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I'm in the UK and it looks like most ISPs have unlimited data caps either by default or as affordable options. Our current government has said it's aiming for nationwide FTTP availability within 5 years. That'll never happen but it needs to be sooner than the previous target of 2033. Anyway, back to TV chat. I have an Amazon Fire TV 4K box. How does UI performance with modern smart TVs compare? Do they get software updates for a reasonable timeframe?
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Sep 6, 2019 23:15
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I'm in the UK and it looks like most ISPs have unlimited data caps either by default or as affordable options. I have cheap unlimited gigabit fiber in the USA, it’s just that like most things in the USA, it varies widely.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:25
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Random question: On the LG C8, if I’m on HDMI 1 using the ISF dark room setting, and I click the “copy these settings to all inputs” button, does it only copy the ISF dark room settings to all inputs? Or does it copy the settings for every mode to all inputs? IF it only copies the ISF Dark Room settings (or whatever mode you’re currently on), how can I copy Dolby Vision and HDR settings to other inputs without triggering them on the original input first?
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Sep 7, 2019 00:49
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Taima posted:To be fair that's not what I said. I said the infrastructure isn't there for *most people* which is true. I mean these are all artificial restrictions. Comcast being butthurt that people are dumping their highest margin item for their third highest margin item (behind phone service) and thus slapping people with caps isn't an infrastructure problem. You can bet that if Comcast were getting a cut of the action selling those they would zero-rate the download. Peoples DVRs also have a lot of storage space, and Comcast's DVR's apparently have the ability to slap a 1TB or 2TB disk on them to add even more storage. That's 45-90 hours of 100mbps content. Downloading asynchronously to watching is a hurdle at 6:1 real-time ratio at 15mbps for 100mbps content, but it's not insurmountable. I think the biggest hurdle here is 99% of people just don't care. On-demand 4k content off netflix at 15mbps is totally fine for them and they don't really know what they're missing. Most of this stuff is politics and rightsholder bullshit problems, not "infrastructure" as I see it. You could launch a functional service for this stuff "tomorrow" if you wanted to, whether people would pay you for it is another issue all together.
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Sep 7, 2019 02:07
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Jesus, don't post while drunk. My apologies. Content: LG C9 for $1899 on Rakuten: https://slickdeals.net/f/13365856-l...issed%3AControl Taima fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 05:04
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Also re: the bitrate discussion, higher bitrate is hardly a panacea for better image quality. A good example of this is John Wick 2 vs 3. The second movie is 84 mbps and the third is only 68, but the third movie definitely looks better in every way. I wonder what the "real" maximum bitrate is where differences wouldn't be perceived? Maybe around 40-50mbps? The lowest bitrate 4Ks in my library are around 40-45 mbps. Several of the Marvel 4K movies are this bit rate and look ok. an example of a lower bit rate movie that looks great is Annhilation at 52mbps. I'm guessing you could drop Annihilation to like 40mbps and it would still be amazing. If a service were to offer 4K at 40mbps streaming that would probably be taken as more or less full quality. That's also coincidentally where the top-end regular blu rays tend to max out (at least in my library, admittedly I don't have that many regular blu rays though). Maybe that's the route to a viable consumer application. Target a bit rate around regular blu ray but 4K and HDR/Dolby Vision. 35-40GB per file instead of 80+GB.
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Sep 7, 2019 17:49
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You can definitely do wonders in small file sizes. I’ve seen a 4K HDR copy of Captain Marvel that was 4GB in size and it looked like... fine. Sadly I don’t have two of the same screens to A/B it compared to the original disk, but man you can hold a lot of perfectly acceptable movies in a small space these days. Every Fire/Roku/etc needs to have HEVC decoding on it’s small stick like players now, rather than just the 4K models.
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Sep 7, 2019 18:39
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Oh poo poo so those are real? I've seen a few of those pop up here and there and just figured they were mislabeled or something. It seems almost impossible, right? 4x the number of pixels at such a low file size, that's all due to the magic of HEVC?
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Sep 7, 2019 19:15
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Taima posted:Oh poo poo so those are real? I've seen a few of those pop up here and there and just figured they were mislabeled or something. It seems almost impossible, right? 4x the number of pixels at such a low file size, that's all due to the magic of HEVC? HEVC is a pretty big jump forwards, kinda like H.264 was back in the day. As with all of these compression algorithms there are ways to make it look better or worse in exchange for CPU power and option tuning based on the content. Generally speaking more CPU power needed for encode/decode nets you smaller file sizes for a given visual quality. So in this example, even though it's 2GB/hour it's likely a pretty similar visual quality to a 2GB/hour 1080p copy in HEVC. Packing those pixels in is going to involve a ton of CPU time, and likely "rounding" color differences in pixels that are next to each other. I imagine the edges are also pretty rough, and high motion/action scenes are going to blur out faster. There are a ton of variables which go into video encoding, so many that seeing people talk about if X device can handle "4k hevc????" is generally pointless. Look at this chart for why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding_tiers_and_levels Re our previous drunken shenanigans: I think we were in violent agreement.  https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=violent%20agreement
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Sep 7, 2019 22:38
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I was just bein' a dick, thanks for the kindness in return though. That information about HEVC is super interesting. I'll have to get a few of those small files and see what's up. By the way, in 4K movie news there are reports/rumors of a pretty big push by Disney this fall/winter. We know that Finding Dory/Nemo are coming out in 4K on tuesday. Then there is more circumstantial evidence for Moana and Tangled coming out too, possibly other things. Good news if you're into that kind of stuff. I love Moana so I'm pretty stoked on that in particular.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:03
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More than Nemo and Dory are coming out on Tuesday. Tuesday's Disney releases on UHD are: Aladdin (1992) Ratatouille Inside Out Cars Brave Cars Cars 2 The Good Dinosaur Finding Nemo Finding Dory On Oct 1st: Frozen Guardians of the Galaxy Doctor Strange Ant Man Spider Man Far From Home Oct 8th Toy Story 4 So, the majority of the Pixar library is coming out Tuesday along with the ones already released. There are only a few left (Up!, Monster's Inc./University, WALL-E, A Bug's Life). The remainder of the Marvel library gets wrapped up on Oct 1st. Current theory is Disney is trying to get as much of their catalog out the door on physical before the launch of Disney+ since they'll be UHD on the service.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:28
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OMG that is loving awesome!!!!!! Looks like Nemo is already available on remux, places. Hopefully the Aladdin 4K is a better use of the format than the Lion King 4K, which I grabbed the steelbook of because it's one of my favorites, but I feel like it's not much different from 1080p.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:44
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TCL 55S421 $298 shipped TCL 65S421 $448 shipped
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Sep 8, 2019 18:59
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After dealing with a tiny 55" TV I decided to pull the trigger on the 75" TCL that was on sale last week. It's awesome, and of course doesn't fit on my tv stand. Got tons of room on the wall, so figure nows the time to mount it. Any recommendations for a good mount?
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Sep 8, 2019 19:23
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Honestly just read the reviews on amazon and see if you want it flush or on an arm. Make sure you mount them to studs and you’ll be fine. Also make sure you put it lower than you think. Looking up at your tv is the worst.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:43
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GreenNight posted:Honestly just read the reviews on amazon and see if you want it flush or on an arm. Make sure you mount them to studs and you’ll be fine. Also make sure you put it lower than you think. Looking up at your tv is the worst. Yeah I checked out Amazon before posting and there's a billion of them, and there's a bunch of highly reviewed cheap ones and expensive ones.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:55
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If you want it flush, it doesn't really matter. If you want one with an arm, pay more. In my experience the cheap ones tend to bend when fully pulled out.
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Sep 8, 2019 20:21
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Watching a little of the new Finding Nemo 4k and it's looking great. Really good HDR and the CGI itself stands up surprisingly well. And of course, the aspect ratio uses the entire panel. Highly recommend.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:03
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My local Costco got in the 65” C9. $2,499. Pretty tempting.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:36
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Ultimate Mango posted:My local Costco got in the 65” C9. $2,499. Pretty tempting. I don't think you deserve this. I practically gift wrapped those cubs for you...  https://slickdeals.net/f/13365856-lg-oled65c9pua-hdr-4k-uhd-smart-tv-2019-1899-ac-fs?src=catpagev2_catnav_tv
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Sep 9, 2019 02:45
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Oh, I know there are good deals out there. I just started a new job and haven’t even gotten my first paycheck. My panny plasma is still kicking just fine for now. It’s nearly a decade old, which feels really weird. But it’s fine despite heavy use.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:17
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How are the CG films handling the 4k? There's no negative to rescan and they were all usually DI'd in 2k right? Edit: I imagine some of the later ones were probably rendered at 4k.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:18
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