|
Does SMG write his analyses specifically to provoke reactions by looking at movies in a completely different way than most people? My first exposure to him was in the Pacific Rim thread and although I didn't agree with his look and interpretation (it's big robots fighting big monsters, come on!), I didn't think it was a calculated move or anything. So I'm not the only one that had trouble with Kazumi Magica? That's good. The art was way too damned busy all the time. The only other time I can remember having so much trouble following what was going on was in some full-color western comic with a million super heroes everywhere, and that was for only a few pages. Also, Kazumi, though introducing some very interesting things to examine like experimentation with soul gems and additional incubators and such, included obnoxious amounts of fanservice and some very confusing plot lines (though unprofessional translation might be partially to blame). I was rather disappointed overall; I'd love to see more of the universe with new characters and settings, seeing things played with and explored, but Kazumi was not the way to do it. I dropped the series sometime after the reveal about the MC. Are there any other materials that do explore the universe in a fresh manner?
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2013 22:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 05:05 |
|
|
Madoka Magica: The Different Story is a manga by hanokage (the artist of the official manga adaptation) that explores an alternate timeline where Mami survives. It's very good and adds a lot of extra depth to Mami, Sayaka, and Kyouko.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2013 00:26
|
|
|
I'll have to check that out then, but I'd love to see something neat with new characters in a different part of the world. Just got back from watching the Madoka movies with my friends. A few were disappointed that so very little is different from the series, but I really liked that they did a superb job of mixing everything together into a movie format. I thought they did a better job than, say, the Gurren Lagann movies. It did a good job of refreshing me on the series and getting me excited for the third movie. I hope they do some releases in the USA like they did with the other two.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 05:19
|
|
|
What made the movies for me weren't "what's different" but rather "wow these production values are way better than the original series". If you have a reasonable home theatre setup, there's plenty to appreciate just on that level. Huge jump in BG art, general animation, profiling, and a superb surround mix.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 06:10
|
|
|
Yeah, I was very impressed with the production quality. It felt polished, like this was the definitive version of Madoka out there. Plus, they made the naked space scene more reasonable than the Blurays or TV release; the galactic blanket covering them in the broadcast version was neat, but what they put in the Bluray is Not Alright(tm). The lace/cotton dress things were, I feel, more fitting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 07:08
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:Yeah, I was very impressed with the production quality. It felt polished, like this was the definitive version of Madoka out there. Plus, they made the naked space scene more reasonable than the Blurays or TV release; the galactic blanket covering them in the broadcast version was neat, but what they put in the Bluray is Not Alright(tm). The lace/cotton dress things were, I feel, more fitting. "No nudity" was one of the instructions Shinbo had for the staff going into the films (which is why there's none of that in the new transformation scenes either). As for the third movie, it's been confirmed that Aniplex is planning on doing another limited international release for it. France and US showings have already been confirmed, although US locations and dates have not as of yet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 07:32
|
|
|
Here's hoping they bring it to the Midwest. The first two had a few showings in Kansas City, so there's hope. If they'd just bring it to my city, though, and save me the drive...
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 16:33
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:Here's hoping they bring it to the Midwest. The first two had a few showings in Kansas City, so there's hope. If they'd just bring it to my city, though, and save me the drive... Everyone loves Perrine. Except for Aniplex USA.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 17:40
|
|
|
Takoluka posted:Everyone loves Perrine. Except for Aniplex USA. I dunno, I think a lot of Japanese-based companies are starting to warm up to this part of the country. This opinion may be skewed because it belongs to a poster who attended the Kalafina concert at Anime Central this year.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 18:25
|
|
|
Maybe they'll bring it to England
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
ActionZero posted:Maybe they'll bring it to England I laughed for about two minutes solid at that. It hurt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 19:13
|
|
|
C'mon, anime companies will totally love the UK after The Mystical Archives of Dantalian and Kin-iro Mosaic! Right?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 19:29
|
|
|
Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:C'mon, anime companies will totally love the UK after The Mystical Archives of Dantalian and Kin-iro Mosaic! They love anime UK not the real UK.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
Takoluka posted:Everyone loves Perrine. Except for Aniplex USA. Aniplex hates us, I couldn't believe the price of the LE Blurays for Madoka. We're not Japan, dammit (considering they still sold well, actually, maybe we are...). Also Aniplex loves Perrine too. They just don't know it yet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 20:19
|
|
|
Aniplex loves nerds who are willing to spend unreasonable amounts of money to buy a show they've already seen(like me).
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
So, there is one thing that I don't get. Why did Sayaka have to stay dead even after Madoka became the embodiment of hope? Also, do we still need spoiler tags?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 07:36
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:So, there is one thing that I don't get. Why did Sayaka have to stay dead even after Madoka became the embodiment of hope? She still fell into despair, even after that. She wasn't killed by a witch (which don't exist now) or by another magical girl or something; while what would happen to her after she died changed, what caused her death (being a magical girl and unrequited love for Kyosuke) still existed in the new universe. As for spoiler tags, the last thread didn't have them but I think this thread's bringing in new people now and it's early on, so I dunno? I didn't think about it until you mentioned them, really.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 08:14
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:So, there is one thing that I don't get. Why did Sayaka have to stay dead even after Madoka became the embodiment of hope? Sayaka was doomed from the moment she made her wish. One way or another, her personality would not make for a long lived magical girl. Whether falling into despair from heartbreak, or throwing herself recklessly into a fight she couldn't have won. The only way to save her is stop her from ever contracting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 08:34
|
|
|
So you're saying she still fell into a self-destructive rut? I assume they still found out that their souls are condensed into gems and kept separate from their bodies, which was the major reason why Sayaka felt like she couldn't even begin to compete against Hitomi anymore. Since Mami was still around and everyone else was alive, it looks like she took that a lot better than finding out magical girls turn into witches...Hmm. I do find it strange that all three of her friends in this timeline would have been unable to comfort her or purify her gem. They said something to the effect that Sayaka simply used up too much power fighting that demon, right? Because she didn't purify her gem because of the rut. Hmm... e: I suppose you're both right. I just wish it were better explained in that post-climax scene. That it was vague enough for myself and several of my friends to question it is an indication that it could have been made clearer. PerrineClostermann fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 08:34
|
|
|
She fancies herself a hero first of all. Her fighting style is extremely close combat. She is not unusually talented, nor experienced. Her powers grant her rapid healing(and a hallmark of fast healing characters is taking lots of risks because they can heal it off). She is stubborn, if faced with overwhelming odds, she'd go ahead and take the odds. She fights with a flashy, flamboyant style like Mami does, only without the energy to keep it up. All that combined means that she would quite inevitably burn out. Rememeber also the other girls and their capabilities: Mami - Wished to survive her car accident. Since the wish would have been granted, regardless of what she actually wished for(the transformation, amongst other things would have done it), Mami probably got a discount on her magic expenditure. She also did a lot of research so that she could fight at range by creating muskets, her primary magic are actually the ribbons. All that put together gives you a very good survivor. Kyouko - Wished for people to believe her father, and as such, got illusion powers. She fights at intermediate range with the extending spear, which, combined with sheer experience, was good for survival. She knows when to flee a fight if necessary. Homura - Wished for time travel, and being able to stop time means she'd almost always survive a fight unless she pushes beyond her limits. No offensive power(probably because she wished to protect), but she makes up for it with guns. Experience wise she is far far ahead of any other girl.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 08:49
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:So you're saying she still fell into a self-destructive rut? I assume they still found out that their souls are condensed into gems and kept separate from their bodies, which was the major reason why Sayaka felt like she couldn't even begin to compete against Hitomi anymore. Since Mami was still around and everyone else was alive, it looks like she took that a lot better than finding out magical girls turn into witches...Hmm. I do find it strange that all three of her friends in this timeline would have been unable to comfort her or purify her gem. They said something to the effect that Sayaka simply used up too much power fighting that demon, right? Because she didn't purify her gem because of the rut. It was probably the Kyosuke situation in general. Sayaka basically Nice Guy'd him instead of telling him how she really felt, and even without the magical girl stuff that doesn't seem like something she was likely to do, so there wasn't really any way for it to work out. He would not reciprocate her feelings because she wouldn't tell him her feelings, and the one-sided romance and whatnot would doom her to despair as she obsesses and anguishes over it instead of doing anything else. There are almost certainly more factors to it than that, but that's basically it as I see it. Despair over the magical girl thing is less likely, since, Kyuubey wanting them to stay alive and fight would have likely had him being more honest and less deliberately presenting information in the cruelest way at the worst time, at least. Probably would have gone a lot better if she had just communicated with him; even if he turned her down at the least she'd hopefully stop pining over a hopeless crush and move on. But, yeah. Pretty sure Urobochi himself has said Sayaka's more or less doomed no matter what timeline she's in. Being Sayaka is suffering. Edit: And what the post above me said, for how she fights and whatnot. Really, Sayaka's pretty self-destructive in general. Poor girl. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 08:51
|
|
|
If we think about it like convergence in Steins;Gate, everything becomes a lot easier to understand. Sayaka's death was one of the biggest moments of the series, as well as one of the most important, so her death must have become a convergence point. Mami's death was less important, even though it did have a large emotional impact on Madoka and Sayaka, and so her death wasn't defined by convergence. We just have to assume that the divergence between the original and Madoka's world was just enough to save Mami, but not enough to save Sayaka.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 14:49
|
|
|
Series ending spoiler chat. I simply thought that death was an illustration of the fact that it's still an unnatural transformation and that emotional entropy or whatever you want to call it still catches up with the girls. Magical girls still run out of juice eventually (or simply get owned and die), it's just that Madoka is now there to catch and vanish them before they can become witches. They are still trading their souls/humanity for wishes, and it's still an inherently unstable process. You see multiple other girls succumb as they would have before the rules change, but Madoka shows up and takes care of it at the last moment. She didn't wish for magical girls not to exist, or for them not to die. She simply didn't want their hope to turn into despair that would destroy the world. Homura is an exception. Could be because she is the only consciousness to predate reality version: Madoka, because of her time powers, because she's some kind of nexus of fate, or just because she is an eternally unflinching badass.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:So, there is one thing that I don't get. Why did Sayaka have to stay dead even after Madoka became the embodiment of hope? Sayaka, like the other magical girls that became witches, still couldn't escape her fate. Madoka's wish prevents the existence of witches, but not the fundamental process which creates them. Madoka just steps in at the end and stops their soul gems from becoming grief seeds. So because Sayaka became a which in the timeline that Madoka rewrote, there was no way to prevent it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:08
|
|
|
Redcrimson posted:Sayaka, like the other magical girls that became witches, still couldn't escape her fate. Madoka's wish prevents the existence of witches, but not the fundamental process which creates them. Madoka just steps in at the end and stops their soul gems from becoming grief seeds. So because Sayaka became a which in the timeline that Madoka rewrote, there was no way to prevent it. But that doesn't explain why Mami's now alive. By your logic, she should be dead too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:19
|
|
|
The simplest explanation for Sayaka is she Witched out already. Several times. Butch Gen says she always will. So Madoka's going to claim her soul at some point in the Episode 12 retrospective regardless, unless Sayaka gives up her wish.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
ViggyNash posted:But that doesn't explain why Mami's now alive. By your logic, she should be dead too. Mami was killed by a witch directly, a witch that doesn't exist anymore. Sayaka dies because she depletes her soul gem. They are completely different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
Actually, I think I can explain why Mami's alive. In the original version, minutes before her death she has Madoka promise that she will become a magical girl and be her partner. Maybe that got to her head and made her arrogant, so she never expected the gigantic face that bit her head off. Maybe without Madoka present, she was able keep her head straight, and was therefore wary of the head when it appeared and dodged, then eventually killed it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:29
|
|
|
Redcrimson posted:Mami was killed by a witch directly, a witch that doesn't exist anymore. Sayaka dies because she depletes her soul gem. They are completely different. This is a pretty good point. Sayaka was the only person to die in the series that was not killed in action. She had problems that would have been largely untouched by the removal of witches. Her crush was still injured and depressed, Hitomi still would have liked him, Sayaka...well, she definitely wasn't fit for being a "super hero" or anything. I wonder if they'd have learned about the Soul Gems in this timeline though; Madoka was never there to toss Sayaka's off the edge, you know? If they did, that's another blow to Sayaka.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:32
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:This is a pretty good point. Sayaka was the only person to die in the series that was not killed in action. She had problems that would have been largely untouched by the removal of witches. Her crush was still injured and depressed, Hitomi still would have liked him, Sayaka...well, she definitely wasn't fit for being a "super hero" or anything. I wonder if they'd have learned about the Soul Gems in this timeline though; Madoka was never there to toss Sayaka's off the edge, you know? If they did, that's another blow to Sayaka. I think they did know, in a way. After switching worlds, in the part where Sayaka disappears and leaves Mami, Kyoko, and Homura behind, Mami says, "She's gone. Led away by the indelible Law of the Cycle ... That is the fate of all magical girls ... before the hope we wished for summons an equal amount of misfortune, we have no choice but to vanish from this world." They know that being a magical girl creates an equal amount of the opposing force (misfortune), which is basically what their soul gems used to do in the previous world. It seems to be something they're told from the start.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
ViggyNash posted:I think they did know, in a way. After switching worlds, in the part where Sayaka disappears and leaves Mami, Kyoko, and Homura behind, Mami says, "She's gone. Led away by the indelible Law of the Cycle ... That is the fate of all magical girls ... before the hope we wished for summons an equal amount of misfortune, we have no choice but to vanish from this world." They know that being a magical girl creates an equal amount of the opposing force (misfortune), which is basically what their soul gems used to do in the previous world. It seems to be something they're told from the start. That's a different thing, though. They know that their wishes and the hope they try to bring to the world through it into chaos by messing with the balance of things, and that they have to make an exit stage left before things snap back and tons of misfortune gets spread. That doesn't mean they know about the soul gems, and given how Mami acted in other timelines when various things were revealed, I find it strange that Sayaka was the one that died and not Mami. Or both. I suppose it's possible the incubators are more forthcoming in general, since they can't abuse the Magical Girl/Witch cycle and thus would want magical girls to stay alive as long as possible without any chance of an early termination.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:16
|
|
|
ViggyNash posted:I think they did know, in a way. After switching worlds, in the part where Sayaka disappears and leaves Mami, Kyoko, and Homura behind, Mami says, "She's gone. Led away by the indelible Law of the Cycle ... That is the fate of all magical girls ... before the hope we wished for summons an equal amount of misfortune, we have no choice but to vanish from this world." They know that being a magical girl creates an equal amount of the opposing force (misfortune), which is basically what their soul gems used to do in the previous world. It seems to be something they're told from the start. It could also just be an inference she makes, equal parts noticing that when the soul gems are about to become completely corrupt people just vanish and philosophizing. It's not knowable for anyone in the cycle that a completely corrupt soul gem is dangerous, since Madoka magically takes care of it outside their frame of reference. Homura again being the exception. It's still a logical leap to make though, given that they know soul gems do gradually become corrupt and Newton's third law. Presumably not even the incubators know about the danger of a corrupt soul gem, being just as tied to the current cycle as anyone else. Besides, Kyubey is notably surprised and intrigued by Homura's story, but specifically points out that it's not something that's verifiable. Speaking of which, that reminds me of my favorite scene in the series. I love how Kyubey is obviously horrified by Madoka's reckless presumption when she makes her wish. It really underscores how hardcore she is being, as well as being a cathartic turnabout given that he has been playing God for the entire show.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Nathilus posted:It could also just be an inference she makes, equal parts noticing that when the soul gems are about to become completely corrupt people just vanish and philosophizing. It's not knowable for anyone in the cycle that a completely corrupt soul gem is dangerous, since Madoka magically takes care of it outside their frame of reference. Homura again being the exception. It's still a logical leap to make though, given that they know soul gems do gradually become corrupt and Newton's third law. Presumably not even the incubators know about the danger of a corrupt soul gem, being just as tied to the current cycle as anyone else. Besides, Kyubey is notably surprised and intrigued by Homura's story, but specifically points out that it's not something that's verifiable. He's been nudging her towards that the whole time though. "You could be a god" and all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
That leads me to another question. Was coobie against Madoka overturning the entire witch system? And if so, why didn't he just not grant her wish?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
veekie posted:He's been nudging her towards that the whole time though. "You could be a god" and all. He wanted her to become a magical girl, not rewrite the rules entirely. Presumably he figured she'd waste her power on some pathetic human desire and would then be able to harvest the energy eventually. It's clear that he didn't expect anything remotely like what she actually ended up doing: "...it's a sin against causality itself" (paraphrased) and, with trembling eyes, "Do you truly intend to become a god?" PerrineClostermann posted:That leads me to another question. Was coobie against Madoka overturning the entire witch system? And if so, why didn't he just not grant her wish? I think so. Incubators are cold-heartedly rational and only concerned with harvesting energy. Post reality change, he notes that the witch system would be a far more efficient means of gathering it and that if it existed, his plans would be very different. Furthermore as I mentioned, he's clearly horrified when he hears the wish. I presume that he can't refuse to grant it, which seems to be the nature of the contract. Nathilus fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:I suppose it's possible the incubators are more forthcoming in general, since they can't abuse the Magical Girl/Witch cycle and thus would want magical girls to stay alive as long as possible without any chance of an early termination. I think most of us have taken that as a given; note how Kyubey talks to Homura in the end and such, perfectly honest about more or less everything, even things that are a bit odd. Compare that to how he is throughout the series, withholding inconvenient information and dropping bombs exactly when it could cause the most pain and despair among the girls, even phrasing things in the nastiest way possible ("why'd you throw away your friend, Madoka?") while still maintaining his weird emotionless facade. And, well, consider that he now has to rely on the magical girls to achieve his goals rather than force them into failure. There's no reason for him not to be at least mostly honest, since the girls getting pissed off or self-destructing doesn't help him at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
He does bring up the god line too often for it to be entirely innocent though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
veekie posted:He does bring up the god line too often for it to be entirely innocent though. I thought it was pretty clear he was just trying to tempt her, regardless of the fact that what he said had a kernel of truth to it. He's not interested in making gods, he just wants the energy the process lets off.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:27
|
|
|
It's a tip off to allow the viewers to accept Madoka literally becoming Deus ex Machina by having it come from the only source who knows how this poo poo works. This is why you have to assume a modicum of truthfulness from QB; he is explaining the out on which the climax is predicated on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 05:05 |
|
|
veekie posted:He does bring up the god line too often for it to be entirely innocent though. Because a wish that gave her that kind of power would also generate a great deal of energy. He's trying to tempt her into doing what he wants while also pretty much giving away the ending.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 19:39
|
|
