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FuzzySkinner posted:Christ that was awful. "Why do they hate my film so much!? What did my film ever do to them!!???" - Jamie Kennedy, star of Son of the Mask, and Malibu's Most Wanted. At least Kevin Smith has made some decent movies. Even his most boring and tepid isn't nearly as godawful as Son of the Mask.
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Jan 2, 2014 06:58
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I do find Malibu's Most Wanted endearing in a certain kind of way.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:09
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Son of the Mask is good if you need to induce vomiting in a hurry.
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Jan 2, 2014 09:02
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Yoshifan823 posted:He just posted on Facebook that he's been inspired by Book of Mormon and is writing this as a musical. If this makes it to the big screen before Book of Mormon does, I am going to rage.
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Jan 2, 2014 15:47
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Yoshifan823 posted:He just posted on Facebook that he's been inspired by Book of Mormon and is writing this as a musical. How much do you want to bet that he has no idea that Trey Parker (a guy who's written many musicals) actually co-wrote Book Of Mormon with a real songwriter (Robert Lopez) Although Kevin Smith lyrics over fan created music sounds like the best thing ever 
Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 16:08
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cat doter posted:Kevin Smith makes movies for people that don't know any better. Jay Dub posted:This will never happen. I would watch it if it did, though.
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Jan 2, 2014 16:38
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Here's the full post, so you can accurately grasp how this man's mind works:Kevin Smith posted:So I spent 24 hour feverishly writing another script based on an episode of SModcast - this time SModcast # 52: The (C)Rapture. I got about 20 pages in when I realized there was no way to write this inexpensively as a feature film. Everything was requiring too many effects that I could never achieve using in-camera tricks like forced perspective. It was starting to feel like a pricier project than I know I'd ever be able to find money to make. And then I remembered this is a SModcast Picture. What do we do on SModcast sometimes? We sing. We make up stupid songs. And my favorite piece of art ever produced by human hands is the glorious BOOK OF MORMON. So... I started reshaping the HELENA HANDBAG script as a piece of SMusical theater, with BOOK OF MORMON as my spirit animal. And holy poo poo... does THIS feel right! After making up all those goofy tunes on EDUMACATION and PLUS ONE, not to mention the FAT MAN ON BATMAN theme song, this feels like a logical progression. And it'll be fun (and way easier) to stage in a theater! I'm a marginally-straight 43 year old fat man who has always loved show tunes: I guess I'd better finally try writing a musical. So there you go: another look inside the creative process. One day, you think you're writing a movie. The next day, you realize it's a that tuner you've always wanted to write. And making up songs? That's the kind of whimsy I can push forward even if I'm standing in the shower (where I normally only masturbate and try to reach hard-to-wash areas with a loofah on a stick). Alright: I thought CLERKS: THE MUSICAL would be my first attempt at theater one day. So happy to realize it's gonna be something original instead. And with that, I look to the heavens and shout "FATHER! The fat sleeper who was in the Henry Hudson Regional late-80's performances of drat YANKEES and YOU'RE A GOOD MAN, CHARLIE BROWN, and GREASE has awakened! (Here is proof that theater is in my blood: me as Kenickie in GREASE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BafHPTNUDz4 ) Emphasis mine, because clearly someone has no idea how musical writing works.
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Jan 2, 2014 16:45
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quote:After making up all those goofy tunes on EDUMACATION and PLUS ONE, not to mention the FAT MAN ON BATMAN theme song, this feels like a logical progression.
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Jan 2, 2014 17:39
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egon_beeblebrox posted:The legal drama episode of the cartoon Clerks show is the best thing Smith has been involved with. It even beat "Arrested Development" to the 'Judge Reinhold' joke. 
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Jan 2, 2014 18:14
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I also liked Kevin Smith in high school but not as much as a lot of people. Even at 17 I though Mallrats was garbage and Clerks was fine, but man, Dogma and Chasing Amy. THOSE were great films (that I can barely stomach watching today because they are from the worldview of the worst kind of manchild). One Christmas my mother got me tickets to see him doing his stand-up/Q+A schtick in Red Bank and holy poo poo is this a dude who figuratively and literally loves the spotlight. He feeds off of the fact that these people are coming to idolize him and ask him to talk about himself and then has a tendency to poo poo on them anyway just for asking a question. Though he did tell a few really funny but clearly STDH stories, I found the whole experience extremely off-putting and ended up leaving at the three hour mark when there was no end in sight. He was gonna keep that goddamn train rolling as long as people would stick around and line up to ask questions and fawn over him. Born in the midwest with fundamentalist parents and we'd be talking about Kevin Smith the Joel Osteen-esque evangelist.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:19
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Most of Kevin Smith's movies range from bad to very bad but I still think Chasing Amy is kind of a mini masterpiece. Everybody's got one, I guess.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:37
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Chasing Amy was my favorite because it felt humble and personal after Mallrats flopped, but I haven't watched it in years, and I'm curious how much I'd still like it. It conveys the message that lesbians are confused, promiscuous women who would switch teams the moment Ben Affleck shows up, and that your lesbian friends will hate you if you sleep with a man. I wonder if lesbians find the movie insulting.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:57
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Toady posted:It conveys the message that lesbians are confused, promiscuous women who would switch teams the moment Ben Affleck shows up, and that your lesbian friends will hate you if you sleep with a man. I wonder if lesbians find the movie insulting. Lots of people have argued this and I entirely disagree. I think the movie conveys in a surprisingly mature way that most adults of either gender exist not as a sexual binary but as one point on a very wide spectrum. It's important to note that within the movie, Ben Affleck's character is an idiot and wrong about everything.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:02
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Lots of people have argued this and I entirely disagree. I think the movie conveys in a surprisingly mature way that most adults of either gender exist not as a sexual binary but as one point on a very wide spectrum. It's important to note that within the movie, Ben Affleck's character is an idiot and wrong about everything. Yeah, I never once got the impression that Chasing Amy was trying to make big broad statements about How Lesbianism Works. I think, especially 15 years ago, when there wasn't near as much acceptance of homosexuality, someone who is an out and proud lesbian ending up falling for a guy could and would be seen as a betrayal of a group like that, even/especially if that person is still attracted to women as well. Those women aren't angry at her simply for being attracted to a man because they're all evil man-hating lesbians, it's seen as a betrayal, or "giving up" or what have you. It's not the right thought to have, but that doesn't make it any less understandable. Chasing Amy is a surprisingly mature insight to the fluidity of sexuality, and Kevin Smith making his ostensibly self-insert main character a drat nitwit is him saying "all this poo poo is far beyond my comprehension". I mean, it's not perfect. I think actually having Banky have feelings towards Holden is kinda silly, because I think Holden just having absolutely no idea how human attraction works is much funnier. Edit: god, Chasing Amy is so loving depressing , because maybe if Kevin Smith had kept making movies like that, instead of poo poo that catered to his awful fans, we'd have more good movies and less Clerks 2/Zack and Miri/Cop Out. Yoshifan823 fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 19:14
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R. Mute posted:Please stop encouraging idiot manchildren by watching their stupid, oh so wacky projects. Don't act like you've never gawked at a train wreck.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:15
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Most of Kevin Smith's movies range from bad to very bad but I still think Chasing Amy is kind of a mini masterpiece. Everybody's got one, I guess. It's far and away my favorite of his but the emotional climax has some of the most cringeworthy dialogue I've heard.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:37
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I followed the traditional Kevin Smith fan cycle: got into him as a teen, then eventually outgrew his work by the time I hit my early 20s. That's not to say the writing wasn't on the wall before this, though; I remember buying the Mallrats DVD just to see the cut footage he wouldn't stop raving about, and barely got through the added 20 minutes of tedious, awkward scenes primarily featuring Jeremy London. I used to have an attitude of "gently caress that guy," but now I view him as more of a tragic figure -- as much as you can feel sorry for any millionaire who gets to indulge in fanboy fantasy every waking moment of his life. If you listen to the commentaries on his earlier movies, it's clear that he once wanted to improve as a director, and Scott Mosier was always the dude who lasered through Smith's self-deprecating defense mechanism to get him to stop with the excuses. But at this point it's clear he has no intent to entertain anyone other than the fans who've somehow stuck with him over the years, and basing entire film productions off of weed-fueled podcast improv is all the evidence you need. It's possible that early success stopped his personal growth, because, as his movies age, they strike me as coming from a person with very little life experience to speak of. At best, they're the edgy ramblings of that guy who wouldn't shut the gently caress up in your entry-level philosophy class. I'm also probably one of the few who doesn't think Chasing Amy holds up, but that's mainly because its sexual politics feel so dated. Gay and lesbian characters in this movie are essentially novelties, because that's where we were at in the late '90s. In 1997, people considered Ellen Degeneres' coming out to be the end of her career -- 15 years later, and she hosts a successful talk show while acting as the spokesperson for several products. In comparison, Chasing Amy has an adult male character seriously confused about how gay ladies have sex. At this point, I don't think he's redeemable, but I think he's given up on redemption. It's clear that he self-medicates constantly and wants to insulate himself from everyone except the people who unconditionally love him. I wouldn't be surprised if he gradually transitions into a Howard Hughes-type figure once he hits his 50s.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:44
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Justin Godscock posted:Now that I think about it; the evolution of adult comedies might have hurt Smith more than he realized (not just that "Hollywood has caught up to me with 40-Year Old Virgin!" like he thought around Zach and Miri). A major theme in today's comedies is the idea that "You're 25 year olds, grow the gently caress up because everyone else is and you don't want to be alone". It's not just Judd Apatow that explored this, even Edgar Wright did so in The Cornetto Trilogy (The World's End being the most relevant to this discussion as the Gary King character is around Kevin Smith's current age). Bringing up Edgar Wright, Quentin Tarantino, or maybe Peter Jackson just shows what a huge underachiever Kevin Smith is. They are people that started out as nerd wannabes just like Smith, but they have each honed their directorial skills to razor sharpness over the years while Kevin Smith just coasts along.
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Jan 2, 2014 20:46
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Toady posted:Chasing Amy was my favorite because it felt humble and personal after Mallrats flopped, but I haven't watched it in years, and I'm curious how much I'd still like it. It conveys the message that lesbians are confused, promiscuous women who would switch teams the moment Ben Affleck shows up, and that your lesbian friends will hate you if you sleep with a man. I wonder if lesbians find the movie insulting. Watch Evening With Kevin Smith, if only for the Superman and Prince stories. tldr- A lesbian stands up and asks, "so you think I just need a deep dicking?" Smith says along the lines of, "There's a reason the idiot character* says that line". Chasing Amy is dated in the sense that it was made in and is of the 90s. Gender politics are not necessarily as well-developed in all areas of the nation, and for someone in the right spot this can still be a very eye-opening movie. *e: The idiot character who turns out to be gay/bi, demonstrating his denial. revdrkevind fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 20:57
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Wabbit posted:Bringing up Edgar Wright, Quentin Tarantino, or maybe Peter Jackson just shows what a huge underachiever Kevin Smith is. They are people that started out as nerd wannabes just like Smith, but they have each honed their directorial skills to razor sharpness over the years while Kevin Smith just coasts along. Slight disagree, only because Smith really just cares about making stuff with his friends. He's done several international tours for the sole purpose of keeping Jason Mewes distracted and monitored so Mewes can't go back to drugs. It's valid to criticize him when he's trying to pretend to be anything other than what he is- the fat kid who got his comeuppance and will ride that poo poo-eating grin to the grave.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:04
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He's not a kid, though. He's a grown man.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:15
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Most of Kevin Smith's movies range from bad to very bad but I still think Chasing Amy is kind of a mini masterpiece. Everybody's got one, I guess. I couldn't get through the first ten minutes of Chasing Amy.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:47
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Casey Affleck wasn't a good actor back then
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Jan 2, 2014 22:49
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revdrkevind posted:Slight disagree, only because Smith really just cares about making stuff with his friends. He's done several international tours for the sole purpose of keeping Jason Mewes distracted and monitored so Mewes can't go back to drugs. That's touching and all but where does it say that working with friends and making good movies are mutually exclusive? Also "comeuppance" almost always has a negative connotation.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:50
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Yoshifan823 posted:Yeah, I never once got the impression that Chasing Amy was trying to make big broad statements about How Lesbianism Works. I think, especially 15 years ago, when there wasn't near as much acceptance of homosexuality, someone who is an out and proud lesbian ending up falling for a guy could and would be seen as a betrayal of a group like that, even/especially if that person is still attracted to women as well. Those women aren't angry at her simply for being attracted to a man because they're all evil man-hating lesbians, it's seen as a betrayal, or "giving up" or what have you. It's not the right thought to have, but that doesn't make it any less understandable. I don't think Chasing Amy was trying to make any statements about homosexuality. It was just about a guy who couldn't handle his girlfriend's promiscuous past, and the lesbianism was inserted to push the edge further. The portrayal is so shallow as to be nonsensical. Holden is ignorant not just of lesbian sex but any sex without a dick. It silly, because he's not established as a sheltered person. If anything, the opposite is established since he's friends with a gay black man. revdrkevind posted:Watch Evening With Kevin Smith, if only for the Superman and Prince stories. I've seen it, but I'm not referring to Banky's dialog. I'm talking about the movie's premise that a lesbian turned out to be a bitter bisexual once Ben Affleck showed up in her life. Also that lesbians only hang out with other lesbians and will expel you from the Scrapbooking Lesbian Club if you have sex with a man. This was silly even in 1997, which was hardly some sort of Stone Age when it came to homosexuality in pop culture. Will & Grace was on TV a year later. I'll have to re-watch the movie and see if any of this bothers me when watching it. I might be bothered more by the clunky beginning and the "I don't know how else to finish the script" ending.
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Jan 2, 2014 22:52
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revdrkevind posted:Slight disagree, only because Smith really just cares about making stuff with his friends. So he has no ambition? That's not a good quality in a director I think. The way Smith reacts to criticism and poor performance of a film at the box office shows that he absolutely cares. I think he wants the critical accolades and box office numbers but he lacks the talent or is simply unwilling to put in the effort to achieve those things. So he hides behind a facade of not caring.
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Jan 2, 2014 23:44
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It's really fun when one of my friends/coworker is a huge Kevin Smith apologist. I've grown out of liking him, and his podcasts. I had originally cut it down to only Hollywood Babble-On, but even now, it's two hosts acting like man children all the time. I should have known I was starting to dislike Kevin Smith when I loved the podcasts where he was out of town and replaced by a guest host. There is only so many times I can stand him making Star Wars and Batman references. Nobody brought this up, but I find this hilarious. Apparently, Hollywood accounting struck Clerks 2. This is not surprising, but Kevin Smith did not notice it until 2012. Just did not notice something like his major players, including himself, not getting paid for a half dozen years.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:01
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I'm another one of those people who used to like Kevin Smith in high school and then grew out of it. I listened to Smodcast for a while too, but I stopped after he didn't update for a while. How many podcasts does he have now? Back when I listened there was only one, but I've heard of Hollywood Babble-on and something with Steve-Dave in the title or whatever. And I guess that Fatman on Batman is just him talking about Batman for an hour? And did Clerks 2 really get a 10-minute standing ovation at Cannes? I think I remember him using that as a comeback when people made fun of him on the internet.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:08
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Wabbit posted:So he has no ambition? That's not a good quality in a director I think. Kevin Smith is really good at spinning webs of stories, entire perspectives on his life, and then shifting to a new one when it suits him. Compare and contrast 'I went into a depression when my movie tanked' with 'it's not about the box office, man, I'm just having fun with my friends.' Also compare and contrast 'Who needs film critics? Why talk about movies when you can be creative?' and 'For seventy-five hours every week me and my friends talk about movies, tune in online any time!!! Also check out my movies, where my characters voice my opinions about Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and countless others!'
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Jan 3, 2014 01:14
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revdrkevind posted:Slight disagree, only because Smith really just cares about making stuff with his friends. So does Edgar Wright. He's just really loving good at creating stories to put his friends in.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:21
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To put it in terms that Kevin Smith himself would understand, Edgar Wright and Kevin Smith are like Superman and Bizarro. They're both massive nerds and consumers of pop culture, but Wright is an order of magnitude better. Snoochie Boochies.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:35
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Dr. S.O. Feelgood posted:And I guess that Fatman on Batman is just him talking about Batman for an hour? Fortunately not. Only a couple episodes feature just Smith. He's had lots of great guests - Mark Hammill, Paul Dini, Kevin Conroy, Grant Morrison, Christopher Drake, Scott Snyder, Greg Capullo, etc. If you're a fan of Batman at all it's worth your while. While Smith's movies don't do it for me anymore, I look forward to every episode of Fatman on Batman. MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 01:43
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Grant Morrison spent an hour making bullshit up and Kevin Smith ate it up like candy. That alone makes the entire exercise worth it.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:48
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That was pretty hilarious. I usually skip that episode because it's kinda cringeworthy. The other Morrison episodes are great, though. And the Mark Hamill episodes are worth listening to even if you're not a Batman fan. Mark Hamill should have his own podcast where he just talks.
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Jan 3, 2014 01:54
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FuzzySkinner posted:Christ that was awful. http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew MeatwadIsGod posted:That was pretty hilarious. I usually skip that episode because it's kinda cringeworthy. The other Morrison episodes are great, though. And the Mark Hamill episodes are worth listening to even if you're not a Batman fan. Mark Hamill should have his own podcast where he just talks. 
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Jan 3, 2014 03:50
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Call Me Charlie posted:His brain broke when Zack and Miri didn't do Apatow numbers. Zack and Mira wasn't Apatow? That was a great movie. There is now a Kevin Smith movie I like for purposes other than pretending to be a radical hipster.
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Jan 3, 2014 05:57
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I mention this in another thread, but with Chasing Amy, Alyssa's sexual background heavily implies she was bisexual, though, so the controversy over her dating and falling in love with a guy in spite of her being a 'lesbian' should have been a moot one. It almost feels like Smith was maybe a draft away from making a subplot of the film explore a sense from the gay/lesbian communities on how they might react to the existence of bisexuals in there. Of course, I also have a strange reading of Alyssa's character arc, but since it's not actually directly addressed on screen I'm probably just imagining it.
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Jan 3, 2014 09:14
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Holligan posted:You do know that he didn't write Cop Out right? He went to the studio and wanted to see what it was like to film someone else work. Still I agree it was not that great and was really a fluff piece. And to be honest of lot of his work has not been great but I believe that he might have gotten some excitement back for this next movie. This is a common defense of Cop Out, but it doesn't excuse it. Cop Out has one of my favorite examples of Smith's failure as a director. The finale hinges around a shootout at a house where the baseball card (let's not forget what this movie is about, a baseball card) is. In watching the film it is impossible to tell how the house is laid out at all. The baseball card is in a vault on the second floor, but I'm unsure as to where on the second floor (Is it close to the stairs? Is it hard to get to?) it is, or how the rest of the house exists. In many instances, this is not vital knowledge. HOWEVER, when the scene is a shootout where the critical piece of importance is where characters are in relation to one another, the scene becomes a mess. Also in this scene is the big plot point of Kevin Pollack's character getting shot - it's impossible to tell who shot him, when he got shot, where he was when he got shot, etc. "Oh but he's a comedy director" Then second unit that poo poo. To be fair, Red State improves on these issues somewhat, but just because the people shooting at each other are either outside or inside depending on which side they're on. It's a little easier to tell. Red State is a mess for a lot of reasons beyond it's geography. Kevin Smith posted:Everything was requiring too many effects that I could never achieve using in-camera tricks like forced perspective. Haha. Ok, he is still funny sometimes.
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Jan 3, 2014 11:42
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NeuroticErotica posted:"Oh but he's a comedy director" Then second unit that poo poo. To be fair, Red State improves on these issues somewhat, but just because the people shooting at each other are either outside or inside depending on which side they're on. It's a little easier to tell. Red State is a mess for a lot of reasons beyond it's geography. God, Red State was dire. The best scene in the movie only works because the choice of actor, and even then the scene goes on for 5 minutes too long. Kevin Smith is also not a talented enough director to pull off switching who the main character in his film is. It jumps around from person to person, with no rhyme or reason, and it actively hurts the film. It's sloppy and unfocused.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:08
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JediTalentAgent posted:I mention this in another thread, but with Chasing Amy, Alyssa's sexual background heavily implies she was bisexual, though, so the controversy over her dating and falling in love with a guy in spite of her being a 'lesbian' should have been a moot one. She's clearly bisexual, but she's introduced as a lesbian who avoids men, and her lesbian friends shun her when they find out she's seeing a man. The movie validates Banky's man-hater stereotype by depicting a cultural animosity from lesbians toward other groups. Even the "serious deep-dicking" line, Banky's rendition of the cliche that lesbians just need a man to set 'em straight, is validated when Alyssa the lesbian falls for a man, and it turns out she's been hiding her actual sexuality for unexplained reasons. None of these issues are explored in the film, because the lesbianism is only there to make Alyssa's background more salacious. Like I said, I don't know how much this would really bother me today while watching it, but I can understand why someone might feel insulted.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:27
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