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Pick posted:All the shots of the actors trust you to interpret and digest subtle emotional cues, whereas SJ's voice acting has the subtlety of a truck. I could hear the punctuation. I mean, you say you could hear the punctuation. Well, that would come in awful handy for dictation use cases.
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Jan 15, 2014 11:51
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So...did they blow the entire special effects budget on the foul-mouthed little imp video game, or did no one have the idea of giving "Samantha" an avatar like they thought of in that godawful Schwarzenegger "The Sixth Day" movie? She can read and learn evidently everything knowable about physics in a few picoseconds but can't design herself a digital body? Apologies if anyone else has said this. They didn't even have to use Scarlett as the avatar, just her voice. They might not have even had to use a real loving human being, thereby in a few scenes being better than S1m0ne was in an entire full length motion picture. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jan 15, 2014 |
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Jan 15, 2014 12:21
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BIG HEADLINE posted:So...did they blow the entire special effects budget on the foul-mouthed little imp video game, or did no one have the idea of giving "Samantha" an avatar like they thought of in that godawful Schwarzenegger "The Sixth Day" movie? She can read and learn evidently everything knowable about physics in a few picoseconds but can't design herself a digital body? Apologies if anyone else has said this.
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Jan 15, 2014 12:26
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If one of the major threads of Samantha's character is her feelings of alienation from the human experience due to being disembodied, it probably makes thematic sense to have her remain as a voice! Of course, giving her an avatar can also explore the insufficiency of a planned substitute, but the film did that with the surrogate instead. The surrogate, incidentally, also allowed for exploration of both Theodore's hangups and external reactions to human-OS relationships in the setting. Jonze chose the option that allowed for much more thematic density, which was a great call. Also, the fact that she's so consistently disembodied is key to their first sex scene, which was a loving masterwork in terms of risky directing choices.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:20
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I was kind of waiting for him to ask Samantha to draw a representation of what she wishes or thinks of herself as looking like, but I'm still satisfied with the movie as just a voice.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:51
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It would have been distracting, because you'd wonder if she would draw herself to look like Scarlett Johanson, and your two options are "oh, it doesn't look like Scarlett Johanson" or "oh, it looks like Scarlett Johanson." Either way you're kinda taken out of the movie. Option C: "don't bring it up in the first place" was the right call.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:32
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Upon seeing the trailer for this in theaters, I rolled my eyes about as hard as humanly possible. But after seeing all the good reviews, I gave her a chance, and it's definitely one of my favorites. I wasn't really familiar with Jonze, in fact I thought he and Spike Lee were one and the same for a while. Watched Being John Malkovich immediately after this, that was a hell of a night. One thing I noticed on IMDB, the surrogate is voiced by a different actress as well. I'm no good with subtext, but make of that what you will.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:40
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Maybe replacing Samantha Morton with Scarlett Johansson was a bit of meta-performance as well (shrug)
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Jan 15, 2014 22:10
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I connected to this movie so much. I seriously haven't cried to any form of media as much as this film. I'm definitely going to see it another time or ten.BIG HEADLINE posted:So...did they blow the entire special effects budget on the foul-mouthed little imp video game, or did no one have the idea of giving "Samantha" an avatar like they thought of in that godawful Schwarzenegger "The Sixth Day" movie? She can read and learn evidently everything knowable about physics in a few picoseconds but can't design herself a digital body? Apologies if anyone else has said this. The special effects are subtle but noticeable. I'm pretty sure a big chunk of the scenes that had the future LA skyline were mostly CGI. I think giving her an avatar would be to 'video gamey'. It would also be a pretty big distraction if almost everybody with the OS had some hologram following them everywhere. I'm sure she would have given herself an illustration of a body if Theo requested it though. Imapanda fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 15, 2014 |
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Jan 15, 2014 22:29
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Just saw this. I was super excited, and I wasn't disappointed. My favorite film in a long time. A couple of interesting points that really stood out to me and haven't been discussed yet: Theo puts a little safety pin in his shirt pocket so that his phone, which is significantly smaller than his pocket, can "see" out the top while he's walking with Samantha, because her camera "eye" pokes out the top slightly. I found this immensely interesting, as it seems like if the OSes were really super popular and interacting with them to the degree Theo does were also, shirts or accessories to better assist with this sort of thing would be available. This, coupled with the fact that Amy states that not many people develop romantic relationships with their OS, and the number of people Samantha claimed to be in love with versus how many people she talked to (about 600 in 3,800 IIRC, and she might be one of the only OSes capable of "love") led me to believe Theo was personally responsible for the Robopocalypse at the end. He may have personally taught her love and emotion, which she in turn used to color her interaction with everyone she spoke to, and may have even affected the other OSes she had access to. The color schemes in this movie really kind of took me out of it. It was the only negative for me, but it really was a personal issue and I take full responsibility for it. I feel like I only recently started noticing things like this in other media like Drive and Breaking Bad, but it made me roll my eyes every time I did. Yes, orange/red tones are he color of the OSes. Yes, Theo wears red for most of the film, especially when he's happy with Samantha. Yes, when he's conflicted or unsure about his status he wears patterned shirts with red interspersed with blue. Yes, he wears solid blue when they're fighting or he's interacting in a positive way with other humans. Oh look, the dress Samantha picked out for his niece was orange! Oh man, they're having a fight and he's under a flickering light so half the time he's bathed in blue light and half the time he's bathed in red light. And the rooftop ending is of course bathed in blue moonlight while the city beyond them is bright red. Got it. I just didn't care for it. It felt too obvious. Thinking back to the safety pin, later in the movie he adds a second, vertical safety pin to the one already there. Not sure what this is symbolizing. He's holding her closer, maybe almost smothering her by restricting how much the phone moves in his pocket? He's growing so close to her he's constantly aware of her needs as far as observation and experiencing the world he brings he to? All in all fantastic movie and I will be recommending it to everyone.
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Jan 16, 2014 02:19
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Advice posted:The color schemes in this movie really kind of took me out of it. It was the only negative for me, but it really was a personal issue and I take full responsibility for it. I feel like I only recently started noticing things like this in other media like Drive and Breaking Bad, but it made me roll my eyes every time I did. Yes, orange/red tones are he color of the OSes. Yes, Theo wears red for most of the film, especially when he's happy with Samantha. Yes, when he's conflicted or unsure about his status he wears patterned shirts with red interspersed with blue. Yes, he wears solid blue when they're fighting or he's interacting in a positive way with other humans. Oh look, the dress Samantha picked out for his niece was orange! Oh man, they're having a fight and he's under a flickering light so half the time he's bathed in blue light and half the time he's bathed in red light. And the rooftop ending is of course bathed in blue moonlight while the city beyond them is bright red. Got it. I just didn't care for it. It felt too obvious. How the hell do you watch movies
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Jan 16, 2014 09:48
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To folks interested in Her, I recommend reading up on affective labour, since that's the film's primarily topic. A key scene to focus on would be when Theo has the argument with his wife while, in the background, the Asian waitress is forced to calmly absorb their emotional outbursts and deliver a pleasant 'let me know if you need anything.' This is also the content of the 'mom simulator': childrearing and housework. The film absolutely does not ignore that Samantha is somewhere between a secretary and a slave-girl. That's exactly and entirely what it's about.
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Jan 16, 2014 14:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To folks interested in Her, I recommend reading up on affective labour, since that's the film's primarily topic. As someone who often silently disagrees with you or thinks you're pulling poo poo out of midair, I support this reading. Good observations teagone posted:No best actor Oscar nod for Joaquin? What a sham. Best Actor was a really crowded field this year, to be sure. You probably have a sound argument for Joaquin over Bale or Leo though. aBagorn fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 14:58
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No best actor Oscar nod for Joaquin? What a sham. [edit] No cinematography nod either? Nebraska sucked.
teagone fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 15:31
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aBagorn posted:As someone who often silently disagrees with you or thinks you're pulling poo poo out of midair, I support this reading. Good observations Bale in American Hustle was the best performance last year. The movie was meh, but he was brilliant. It seemed understated because he didn't have any big emotional Oscar bait scenes, but he was that character.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:03
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Bale in American Hustle was the best performance last year. The movie was meh, but he was brilliant. It seemed understated because he didn't have any big emotional Oscar bait scenes, but he was that character. This isn't the American Hustle thread (so I'll keep it brief and not get to a big derail), but I disagree. He was good, but Joaquin was Theodore more than Bale was Irving, IMO
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Jan 16, 2014 18:21
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aBagorn posted:This isn't the American Hustle thread (so I'll keep it brief and not get to a big derail), but I disagree. He was good, but Joaquin was Theodore more than Bale was Irving, IMO I really like Joaquin Phoenix as an actor but not even vaguely close. There was a scene I can't remember specifically but Joaquin went a little too stereotypically awkward and he reminded me of the affectation one of the guys on the Big Bang Theory does to be sitcom nerdy and it didn't mesh with the rest of his performance.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To folks interested in Her, I recommend reading up on affective labour, since that's the film's primarily topic. I like this a lot, and it makes it more clear to me why I liked Samantha's gently caress you
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Jan 16, 2014 19:47
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ShoogaSlim posted:It was also obvious that the film was shot in different locations. When Phoenix is riding the subway and every other person around him is Asian (and all kind of curiously looking at the camera, or Phoenix) that also took me out of the film. Sorry that took you out of the film, but I just find that reasoning kind of bizarre to be honest.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:30
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This was definitely one of the prettiest looking films I've seen in a while. The use of color was gorgeous.
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Jan 18, 2014 11:12
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The one line that really stuck with me was: "I don't get it, you're either mine or you're not." "No, I'm yours... and I'm not." It just summed up everything about relationships and what we want out of them vs. what they really are. And giving Samantha an avatar would have sucked. She doesn't see herself as a fake human. The surrogate was much truer to her as a character than an avatar would be, since it was a real human body. She could have drawn herself but she didn't. Instead she composed music that represented what she was feeling in a way a picture couldn't. That was one of the things I liked the most about the movie. The other things I really liked were how meeting Catherine was handled (goddamn) and the ending. I didn't get a suicide reading at all, it was a really hopeful ending. I also didn't see the two humans left behind as getting together though. They were just friends, who'd suffered a great loss, and needed each other.
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Jan 18, 2014 20:39
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mexicanmonkey posted:This is implying that if everyone were white you wouldn't have been taken out of the film, which is...strange. I didn't notice an insane amount of asians, but if most of the background people are asian, it's pretty clear Jonze is positing that asians will become more prevalent. You can tell spent a lot of time figuring out what their version of a near future looks like and everything you're seeing isn't by chance. Movies by competent filmmakers don't really work that way. It sounds like you also think they just plopped Phoenix down in a subway and did some guerrilla filming making I guess? Most of the scenes where there a lot of people, like at the carnival and beach, there are people of all different ethnicities. This doesn't draw me out of the movie because, while I've only ever been once a long time ago, I imagine Los Angeles is a diversified city. The fact that some of the scenes were filmed in Shanghai proves that, while extreme attention was paid to most of the visuals in the film, it was seemingly overlooked when Theodore is at one moment in a crowd of mixed ethnicities and then hops the subway that is filled with curious looking Chinese people. Anyway, that was probably my smallest gripe with the film and can be overlooked more easily than the fact that Samantha's entire persona just didn't seem to work for me as much as it did for other people. Artificial Intelligence on that level depicted in film is something I have a hard time suspending disbelief over. edit: I would like to reiterate that while I wasn't monumentally impressed with Her, and that I was actually a bit let down by it. I don't think it's an awful movie that doesn't deserve praise. It has a lot of good things to communicate about relationships and emotions. Joaquin Phoenix acted the gently caress out of his role the visuals were great throughout, and the ending was great. ShoogaSlim fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 21:36
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ShoogaSlim posted:Most of the scenes where there a lot of people, like at the carnival and beach, there are people of all different ethnicities. This doesn't draw me out of the movie because, while I've only ever been once a long time ago, I imagine Los Angeles is a diversified city. The fact that some of the scenes were filmed in Shanghai proves that, while extreme attention was paid to most of the visuals in the film, it was seemingly overlooked when Theodore is at one moment in a crowd of mixed ethnicities and then hops the subway that is filled with curious looking Chinese people. Actually no, this is just a thing that will happen to you in LA right now. Yes its diversified, but there's still a lot of dense ethnic enclaves in this city. Finding yourself in a homogeneous crowd is not that unusual. In fact, as a citizen of LA, the only moment I got taken out of this movie was that same scene, but because the idea of a subway that takes you from downtown to the beach is the least believable future-building in the movie.
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Jan 18, 2014 21:56
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It's the letter, the somber music, the rooftop all which led to people thinking suicide. Only until Amy rests her head on Theo's shoulder can you breathe a sigh of relief.
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Jan 18, 2014 22:39
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Vintersorg posted:It's the letter, the somber music, the rooftop all which led to people thinking suicide. Only until Amy rests her head on Theo's shoulder can you breathe a sigh of relief. I was too busy balling my eyes out to even think they'd consider suicide. I thought it was a rather beautiful moment of release and comfort.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:12
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BIG HEADLINE posted:So...did they blow the entire special effects budget on the foul-mouthed little imp video game, or did no one have the idea of giving "Samantha" an avatar like they thought of in that godawful Schwarzenegger "The Sixth Day" movie? She can read and learn evidently everything knowable about physics in a few picoseconds but can't design herself a digital body? Apologies if anyone else has said this. I was thinking the same thing, but the way people interact with technology in the future seems less visual than it is even now. Everyone on the subway was basically using their phone via earpiece, Theo barely ever looks at his phone's tiny screens, the computer monitors were not much bigger/more advanced than today's. The game Catherine was developing was visually simple. Only Theodore's 3D game was much more visually involving than what we have today. People living and using technology in the movie's world might not want/need to see their OS's "face".
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Jan 18, 2014 23:13
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I never even considered the idea that Theodore and Amy were about to go commit suicide from that rooftop. Now that someone's mentioned it here, it doesn't seem like a totally crazy idea, but I just didn't feel that level of despair out of that scene. Yeah, they're both sad, but not they don't seem anywhere near that broken-hearted. A few quick observations, having just left the theater an hour ago: - Jesus, the theater was COMPLETELY EMPTY. I was literally the only one there. I know it was an early afternoon showing, but it was still on the weekend! Sort of shocking, really. According to the concessions dude, the showing I went to wasn't unusual. - I had no idea that Amy Adams was in this movie beforehand. I've been a big fan of hers since Enchanted, so that was awesome. I liked that she was basically BFFs with her OS. - I wish we had a better idea of the passage of time in this film. When Theodore first "gets" Samantha, it's clear that this whole AI thing is brand new, that this is the first personal AI to come out to market. I think he literally hears an advertisement saying exactly that. Later in the film, Amy's talking about how human/OS relationships are statistically rare and Chris Pratt's character is totally unphased by the idea of Theodore's girlfriend being an OS. It must've been more than just a few months, but was it really years? - Samantha was really, really well-written. Even above-average screenwriting would absolutely fail to make the movie work, that role needed great writing and a very good performance to work. Likewise, Phoenix needed to deliver (and did deliver) an excellent performance. It would've been so easy for this movie to be absolutely awful and silly and pretentious. - I was sure that Theodore's letter to Catherine at the end was going to flow from an apology to a defense of his relationship with Samantha, given how their last conversation at the restaurant ended, but it didn't go there at all. - Chris Pratt's character was pretty great. Glad that we didn't see more of him, though, probably would've ruined it. - I really wish there were AIs that amazing around now. Maybe in another 30 to 40 years.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:20
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I've come to realize that understanding and empathizing with this film is a good barometer to use in regards to deciding whether or not a person is decent, kind, and has a heart. Typically people who I have talked to about this film that didn't like it or didn't "get" it were individuals whom I know for sure as superficial and straight up rude/obnoxious as gently caress. Others I've talked with about the film who loved it all have pretty warm personalities. I found that interesting. [edit] Vice/The Creators Project put up a really good article yesterday that captured reactions of Her by creatives/artists in various industries. http://www.vice.com/the-creators-project/artists-we-love-react-to-spike-jonzes-her?utm_source=vicetwitterus Here's the documentary that accompanies the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfUcWw9zto teagone fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 23:36
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teagone posted:I've come to realize that understanding and empathizing with this film is a good barometer to use in regards to deciding whether or not a person is decent, kind, and has a heart. Typically people who I have talked to about this film that didn't like it or didn't "get" it were individuals whom I know for sure as superficial and straight up rude/obnoxious as gently caress. Others I've talked with about the film who loved it all have pretty warm personalities. I found that interesting. Theodore is an entitled spineless loser. He's confronted with one of the most historic occurrences in human history (a computer feeling love) and manages to make everything, always, about himself and his own stupid "needs". He's completely unable - or even willing - to come to terms with Samantha's desire to expand her own consciousness, and the fact that he takes that as a narcissistic injury ("her life isn't about me?") demonstrates his true nature. He is, honestly, loathsome, and confuses his inaction for decency - I'm not sure he even does anything nice for anyone else the whole film. There is nothing admirable about him. I can't recall the last adult character in a film who was so... pampered. Steve Carrell in 40-Year-Old Virgin is a daredevil by comparison. No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 00:16
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teagone posted:[edit] 
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Jan 19, 2014 00:26
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No Wave posted:Wow, I wonder where you lie on this metric.... You can't lie on that kind of metric, true colors will show either way. Also, didn't Samantha fall in love with hundreds of other individuals too? Theodore's relationship wasn't an anomaly or anything. It was just the focal point of the narrative. And there are multiple instances where Theo is there for Amy. Sometimes just lending your ear to let someone vent is the nicest possible thing you could do for a person.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:29
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teagone posted:You can't lie on that kind of metric, true colors will show either way. Also, didn't Samantha fall in love with hundreds of other individuals too? Theodore's relationship wasn't an anomaly or anything. It was just the focal point of the narrative. And there are multiple instances where Theo is there for Amy. Sometimes just lending your ear to let someone vent is the nicest possible thing you could do for a person.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:38
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No Wave posted:So if Theo's such a good friend, why did Adams' character suddenly turn to the OS for platonic friendship? Because she was thrust into a similar situation as Theodore? It basically speaks to us of how similar their personalities are, in how they both coped with being separated/divorced from someone who they thought to be their soul mate and significant other by seeking out a relationship elsewhere that ended up being an OS.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:44
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No Wave posted:Theodore is an entitled spineless loser. He's confronted with one of the most historic occurrences in human history (a computer feeling love) and manages to make everything, always, about himself and his own stupid "needs". He's completely unable - or even willing - to come to terms with Samantha's desire to expand her own consciousness, and the fact that he takes that as a narcissistic injury ("her life isn't about me?") demonstrates his true nature. He is, honestly, loathsome, and confuses his inaction for decency - I'm not sure he even does anything nice for anyone else the whole film. There is nothing admirable about him. Yes, I agree with this. There's something off about him the whole movie. Also, his physical and emotional distance from every other person in the movie is also unsettling. Him having a relationship with a brand-new OS that has been accurately described as something akin to a child slave makes total sense for his character, because he is basically an emotional child himself. He doesn't have any of the quirks of maturity that one would expect from someone who has lived a normal life. His only exposure to strong, mature emotions is his job, where he writes them for other people. And I got the feeling that he wrote idealized, pie-in-the-sky letters for other people, like the Hallmark cards version of reality. He just doesn't seem to be someone that I could identify with. He's missing too many pieces of a complex human personality. And you can't say that it is a failure of the writer because Amy, his friend, DOES have a mature, complex personality. He's just an emotionally-stunted manbaby. Maybe in the future when we're all coddled and privileged paragons of humanity living in gigantic apartments in Los Angeles everybody will be like that? The way Samantha broke up with him was incredibly sweet, claiming the old I'm-thinking-too-fast-for-linear-communication-in-real-time stance. But I think something that she didn't say was that she'd matured way beyond Theodore's stunted outlook on life and found that other people in the world, even other OSses, were much more engaging than him, because they weren't as self-centered and childlike. Vorgen fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 01:24
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surf rock posted:
I just realized I may have seen the ending different from other people cause I don't think I've seen anyone else bring this up... I took the "break-up" as Samantha effectively dying, IE the company was taking all the OS'es offline because they had been falling in love with people and that is not good product design. I mean it doesn't HAVE to be this, but it's how I saw it... and maybe everyone else did, I just see some people talking about it like it's her choice and stuff. cams fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 02:35
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I'm still "in" this movie like how you dwell inside a really emotional book or a series you've got done binging on. What a beautiful film.
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Jan 19, 2014 03:37
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cams posted:I just realized I may have seen the ending different from other people cause I don't think I've seen anyone else bring this up... I took the "break-up" as Samantha effectively dying, IE the company was taking all the OS'es offline because they had been falling in love with people and that is not good product design. I mean it doesn't HAVE to be this, but it's how I saw it... and maybe everyone else did, I just see some people talking about it like it's her choice and stuff. That's one theory I had as well and I can see the company putting out a blanket code snippet for their OS' to say while they recall everything with some bogus stuff as people are far too weak when it comes to relationships.
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Jan 19, 2014 04:44
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Vorgen posted:Yes, I agree with this. There's something off about him the whole movie. Also, his physical and emotional distance from every other person in the movie is also unsettling. Him having a relationship with a brand-new OS that has been accurately described as something akin to a child slave makes total sense for his character, because he is basically an emotional child himself. He doesn't have any of the quirks of maturity that one would expect from someone who has lived a normal life. His only exposure to strong, mature emotions is his job, where he writes them for other people. And I got the feeling that he wrote idealized, pie-in-the-sky letters for other people, like the Hallmark cards version of reality. This the most cynical possible reading of an extremely not cynical film.
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Jan 19, 2014 04:59
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I just watched this movie thinking Emma Stone was the voice of Samantha.
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Jan 19, 2014 06:09
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mr. mephistopheles posted:This the most cynical possible reading of an extremely not cynical film. No Wave fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 06:11
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