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Blaze Dragon posted:He can't. Noble Phantasm rules are clear, they're triggered by calling their names. None of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon NPs have names, as they will only be named in the future. Thus, they're very strong weapons, but they hold no special abilities, not yet. So he doesn't have Gae Bolg, he has a spear that will become Gae Bolg, thus it has no special properties beyond being a very good spear. Ytlaya posted:So what does Gil do if Cu Chulainn uses his "thrown Gae Bolg that will always hit its target and also makes a gently caress-off explosion"? I guess he probably has some sort of shield that can block it or something. Fun fact: in the Fate route Cu Chulainn is able to stall Gilgamesh for almost a whole day. YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 21:09
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Blaze Dragon posted:He can't. Noble Phantasm rules are clear, they're triggered by calling their names. None of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon NPs have names, as they will only be named in the future. Thus, they're very strong weapons, but they hold no special abilities, not yet. So he doesn't have Gae Bolg, he has a spear that will become Gae Bolg, thus it has no special properties beyond being a very good spear. Well he can use the abilities of a lot of things, like the flying ship, amulets, etc. His ability to recall those NP's back inside GoB is in of itself a NP he activates through his will. quote:You're confusing Gate of Babylon with Shirou/Archer's Tracing. The forgeries Archer creates are of one rank lower than the original NP, which he makes up for by turning them into Broken Phantasms. As far as I know, Gilgamesh's "Prototype Noble Phantasms" are of the same Rank as the versions that obtained names and legends, they just lack any special properties and abilities, being merely very strong weapons. GIl's weapons are actually "more real" by virtue of being the originals. He can use Gram to shatter Caliburn basically. YggdrasilTM posted:Fun fact: in the Fate route Cu Chulainn is able to stall Gilgamesh for almost a whole day. Protection from Arrows people.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:52
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It is a crime we don't get to see Gil vs Cu because I bet Gil was loving furious about it
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Jul 13, 2017 21:52
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Gil gets dunked on by a depressed king, a dumb child and a horny shadow. He doesn't have the greatest time in FSN.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:57
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Tbh it seems like lancelot as anything other than a berserker could probably dunk on him pretty hard as well.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:03
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Rodyle posted:It is a crime we don't get to see Gil vs Cu because I bet Gil was loving furious about it IIRC the whole fight happened basically as a game of chicken. Either Cu would help out the Heroes in escaping the Church or Gilgamesh would've if Cu wasn't going to. The Fate route is basically the route where Gil as an antagonist feels the most decent his passes at Saber aside. Gilgamesh arguably could have ended the fight as he did using Enkidu and his own original version of Calodabolg at any point, so he arguably was having fun during it until he lost interest.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:05
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Astro Ambulance posted:Tbh it seems like lancelot as anything other than a berserker could probably dunk on him pretty hard as well. this is difficult to say because Lancelot's Eternal Arms Mastership means that he was fighting exactly as well as a Berserker as he would as a Saber; regardless of his mental state he fights at the top of his abilities. The major thing Lancelot might have had is better access to Noble Phantasms, but Arondight isn't exactly Ea level.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:11
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Raenir Salazar posted:GIl's weapons are actually "more real" by virtue of being the originals. He can use Gram to shatter Caliburn basically.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:21
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Stallion Cabana posted:this is difficult to say because Lancelot's Eternal Arms Mastership means that he was fighting exactly as well as a Berserker as he would as a Saber; regardless of his mental state he fights at the top of his abilities. The major thing Lancelot might have had is better access to Noble Phantasms, but Arondight isn't exactly Ea level. Probably more like, a lancelot with a less garbage master instead of necessarily not a berserker.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:51
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I never got the impression Gil was trying that hard against Lancelot. Seemed like he was just messing around dogfighting with him for kicks.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:12
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Ytlaya posted:I never got the impression Gil was trying that hard against Lancelot. Seemed like he was just messing around dogfighting with him for kicks. I think the only time in which Gil "try hard" against someone is in Fate/Strange Fake.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:25
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The biggest disappointment of the fate metaseries, imo, is that at no point does a George Washington / Genghis Khan philosophy -off and battle ever happen
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Jul 13, 2017 23:41
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Given the previously mentioned power ranking calculation, I am surprised there is not some spin off where an individual say, jacks the Iron Crown of Lombardy then tries to summon Jesus using the supposed nail from the true cross in it. Or is there?
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Jul 13, 2017 23:42
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Ytlaya posted:I never got the impression Gil was trying that hard against Lancelot. Seemed like he was just messing around dogfighting with him for kicks. It seemed like he got pretty upset when Lancelot stole his weapons and used them against him. I never got why Gil is that powerful anyway; I know the whole 'four parts of Servant Strength' poo poo but Gilgamesh is like, not a very well known myth. At least where I am if I said 'name some ancient heroes' you'd get your Hercules and your King Arthur and your Musashis but I feel like even Beowulf has a stronger impact on the modern memory then Gilgamesh. Sure he's old, the oldest dude even, and he himself had a lot of personal power, but I feel like Beowulf should have been the idea of 'the oldest, strongest Servant' even if Gilgamesh was technically older; Beowulf is something you read in High School and has a ton of movies about him. I don't think you ever do that with Gilgamesh.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:42
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Patrat posted:Given the previously mentioned power ranking calculation, I am surprised there is not some spin off where an individual say, jacks the Iron Crown of Lombardy then tries to summon Jesus using the supposed nail from the true cross in it. Or is there? you can't summon gods they're too powerful. The closest you ever get is stranger fake where Enkidu is summoned. Also the bubonic plague.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:46
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Stallion Cabana posted:It seemed like he got pretty upset when Lancelot stole his weapons and used them against him. Why Beowulf though as by that logic it should be one of the Greek Heroes who reign supreme?
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Jul 13, 2017 23:46
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Hunt11 posted:Why Beowulf though as by that logic it should be one of the Greek Heroes who reign supreme? actually to be honest you're right; Odessyus and Beowulf should be cream of the crop even by the logic I'm using, stuff you're exposed to in high school that sticks with you. I don't ever remember reading the Illiad but I definitely read The Odyssey, or at least parts of it. Which makes me wonder if servants wax and wane in power; does the popularity of Dynasty Warriors make Lu Bu stronger
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Jul 13, 2017 23:51
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Stallion Cabana posted:Which makes me wonder if servants wax and wane in power; does the popularity of Dynasty Warriors make Lu Bu stronger Debatably. How much a Servant's legend is known affects their power, but how far that goes in terms of adaptations is never stated. It's perfectly possible that, say, Vlad would get a power boost from the Castlevania Netflix series (right now, or from the entire game series in general), but at the same time, it may be too far to actually count as Dracula's legend. If you remove any fourth wall, you could make an interesting metaplot about how the Fate series itself affects the Servants' powers.
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Jul 13, 2017 23:54
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Stallion Cabana posted:It seemed like he got pretty upset when Lancelot stole his weapons and used them against him. The scale is different. Beowulf was only 1000 AD or so, and is only really notable for being one of the earliest english language texts. That's long after both the greeks and most of the romans. Gilgamesh is thought to be based on a king from 2700 BC, and the stories about him are some of the first writing, like, anywhere. This is important in Nasuverse terms, because civilization and magecraft is generally presented as declining over time. Thus Gilgamesh, who's older than everyone else, lived in the strongest era. I don't know if you could consider Beowulf more popular or commonly known, either. American high school isn't the basis of the entire world. The epic of Gilgamesh isn't exactly unknown. And if you start getting nitpicky about how well known servants are and how that ties into their power level you'll just get a headache at all the Japanese servants who aren't well known at all outside of Japan but are still stupid strong because this was all made by a Japanese company. Patrat posted:Given the previously mentioned power ranking calculation, I am surprised there is not some spin off where an individual say, jacks the Iron Crown of Lombardy then tries to summon Jesus using the supposed nail from the true cross in it. Or is there? It might not be impossible? Buddha was summoned in Extra as a Saver, which is a class basically explicitly for messiah-type figures. That being said, if the writers wanted to make a reason why Jesus couldn't be summoned, there are several available. Gods can't be summoned under normal circumstances if you classify Jesus as one, and IIRC there are also some servants that are supposed to not normally be summonable (Scathach and Merlin, I think?) because they went to live eternally in some alternate realm, and thus never technically "died" to go to the throne of heroes. Jesus might fall under that category. It's not like they completely ignore biblical stuff, though. Several old testament figures like David and Solomon show up in FGO.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:10
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Stallion Cabana posted:It seemed like he got pretty upset when Lancelot stole his weapons and used them against him. I think he was just angry because Lancelot was using His poo poo. Gil does not take kindly to people stealing (or copying) his stuff. Also Gilgamesh is definitely up there as far as "recognizable mythical characters" go. Not to mention the whole "older generally means stronger" thing someone else mentioned, as well as the fact that the basic nature of the characters' abilities also factors in (and Gate of Babylon is inherently really strong, since it's basically a machine gun that works against servants, even if you ignore other uses of all the goodies inside).
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Jul 14, 2017 00:21
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Yes, there is also a compatibility component. Gilgamesh is the strongest Servant also because his power is the strongest against other Servants. To beat him you need to 1) Cheat (Avalon) 2) Use a similar kind of power (Emiya/Enkidu) 3) Or be on an higher step of the food chain (the shadow).
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Jul 14, 2017 00:41
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Worth noting that the shadow was going to get torn inside out by him also, so it had to force him down IMMEDIATELY.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:54
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YggdrasilTM posted:Yes, there is also a compatibility component. 4) Be a magical girl with literally limitless magic who turned her entire body into magic circuits.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:56
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Blaze Dragon posted:4) Be a magical girl with literally limitless magic who turned her entire body into magic circuits. did ilya not get owned by gilgamesh is something or is there someone else that did that
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Jul 14, 2017 01:02
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Maybe that's Sakura.
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Jul 14, 2017 01:05
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The Beowulf as better known than Gilgamesh is definitely very anglocentric. I've been aware of the the Epic of Gilgamesh since I was a kid while I only heard of Beowulf in biographies of JRR Tolkien. We do know that servants get a power boost from being summoned in an area where they're well known, so being relevant to the literary tradition of a country (and thus its school curriculum) is probably a significant advantage.
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Jul 14, 2017 01:12
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Blaze Dragon posted:He can't. Noble Phantasm rules are clear, they're triggered by calling their names. None of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon NPs have names, as they will only be named in the future. Thus, they're very strong weapons, but they hold no special abilities, not yet. So he doesn't have Gae Bolg, he has a spear that will become Gae Bolg, thus it has no special properties beyond being a very good spear. If they have an "activates on hit" ability that still works fine, eg Gae Dearg or whatever. Incidentially, EMIYA and Shirou both can activate a Noble Phantasm's true name and abilities, since they can replicate the skills of the original wielder. You can see them doing this several times; EMIYA uses Caladbolg and Hrunting on assorted occasions, and both of them project Rho Aias. In the Heaven's Feel's endings, Shirou can also project Excalibur at the cost of his own life, and uses Rule Breaker to save Sakura. That being said all the superpowered stuff can't be done by either due to the incredible energy consumption, and divine constructs can't be perfectly replicated no matter what. Even in the Moon Cell, where Servants have unlimited power, EMIYA can only make a degraded copy.
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Jul 14, 2017 02:32
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As the original hero with access to all the original artifacts nasu (or whomever is writing) can just handwave it as every hlnoble spirit's legend boosts Gil's power because he was the origin of the concept of a human legend.
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Jul 14, 2017 02:44
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https://twitter.com/KaroshiMyriad/status/885427418873319424 Well they know what the people (read: Twitter) want that's for sure
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Jul 14, 2017 02:45
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Rodyle posted:https://twitter.com/KaroshiMyriad/status/885427418873319424 The fanbase in general has a weak spot to fun loving riders.
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Jul 14, 2017 02:46
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Sanguinia posted:I did a Fate RP one time where we had a Caster Tesla. His noble phantasm was the ability to make a machine that could more or less do anything he imagined by cobbling together a sciency-looking container and then filling in the insides with magic. We kept finding surveillance devices and communicators and weird weapons, but any time we busted one open looking for clues it was basically elaborate scrap metal with magic residue we couldn't analyze at all inside, which made deducing his identity a chore for quite a long time. This actually sounds a lot like Archimedes. His NP is a doomlaser made from those mirrors of his, which use focus both sunlight and magical energy, hence why they can't me replicated in modern times.
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Jul 14, 2017 03:08
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Went into this with lukewarm expectations after being burned by the hour long commercial that was Fate/Grand Order. So far, this show is already good and fun! Astolfo is 
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Jul 14, 2017 03:16
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So the yggdemillenia golem user who keeps talking to Avicbron(sp) is going to be used as the special golems core, right? Or are they one of the masters?
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Jul 14, 2017 03:22
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GodFish posted:So the yggdemillenia golem user who keeps talking to Avicbron(sp) is going to be used as the special golems core, right? Or are they one of the masters? ... Yes ...
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Jul 14, 2017 03:30
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Got to say I absolutely could not stand all Fate works I've ever glanced at before this one, but for whatever reason the concept and execution of this one just really grips me. Probably helps its not about a dimensionless guy and based on an erotic visual novel with multiple branching paths and is just a 5 part light novel series.
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Jul 14, 2017 03:43
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Leonardo's inventions were also stuff that despite having detailed blueprints, virtually none of it works. Also I believe Isaac Newton built a bridge without any nails/screws/fastens, just physics and no one in hundreds of years has managed to figure out how to rebuild it. As for Gilgamesh, there's two root components to Servant power. Fame, and Mystery. Being Unknown is a bit of a handicap but being a sufficiently old, or mysterious Servant gives you a lot of power to compensate. Like Koschei the deathless is probably not well known outside of Russia but he's still the first Lich and my head canon is that he's basically Evil Schwienorg.
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Jul 14, 2017 03:54
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C-SPAN Caller posted:Got to say I absolutely could not stand all Fate works I've ever glanced at before this one, but for whatever reason the concept and execution of this one just really grips me. Probably helps its not about a dimensionless guy and based on an erotic visual novel with multiple branching paths and is just a 5 part light novel series. Check out Fate/Zero, it's none of those things and is also based on a novel like Apocrypha is. It's very good. EDIT: I found the worst tweet https://twitter.com/ChuckConcrete/status/885539246341337089
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Jul 14, 2017 04:51
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C-SPAN Caller posted:Got to say I absolutely could not stand all Fate works I've ever glanced at before this one, but for whatever reason the concept and execution of this one just really grips me. Probably helps its not about a dimensionless guy and based on an erotic visual novel with multiple branching paths and is just a 5 part light novel series. In fairness, Apocrypha doesn't have the most noble origins either. They wanted to make some sort of online game but the plan failed. All they were left with was a bunch of random character designs, so they somehow pieced them together into a book series.
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Jul 14, 2017 05:08
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Manatee Cannon posted:did ilya not get owned by gilgamesh is something or is there someone else that did that in prillya she jury rigs her body as magic circuits and overpowers Ea with a magical girl beam. it's also her NP in F/GO
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Jul 14, 2017 05:09
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Bakanogami posted:In fairness, Apocrypha doesn't have the most noble origins either. They wanted to make some sort of online game but the plan failed. All they were left with was a bunch of random character designs, so they somehow pieced them together into a book series. And then the online game became Fate/Grand Order where a good chunk of the Apocrypha Servants are playable and subject to fandom memes. Funny how stuff works out in Type-Moon sometimes.
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Jul 14, 2017 05:40
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