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As a manga reader, I request more theorizing from non-readers before the season ends, preferably sooner rather than later. If the pacing continues as it is, you're gonna see some Serious poo poo. Note this is not confirmation or denial of any of the posted theories.
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Aug 17, 2018 08:25
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Yeah these are very enjoyable posts and they make me feel like the gifs are paying off! Thank you and don't stop!
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Aug 17, 2018 10:40
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I'm non-reader. I have no idea what direction the whole political thing will go, but I think there's some other mind fuckery going on. The first two seasons start with flash-forwards before Eren wakes up to see Mikasa, followed by shots of flowers and bright blue skys or godrays. Furthermore, in the flashback in episode 9 of season 1, Eren's father says Eren's memories will be messed up, and I'm pretty sure his father said Eren will have to rely on "their" memories. I've seen several subs, so that might have been a mistranslation... Still, it makes me wonder if what we've seen so far are memories, and not the present. It doesn't entirely make sense, since we're getting the stories of people who are way outside of Eren's circle of friends, but this could be an unreliable narrator kind of deal, where Eren has to piece together with happened to fix something in the yet-to-be-seen present. I don't know. The only thing I know for sure is that the show is hiding something in plain sight, just like it hid the human titans. I wouldn't have given this stuff a second thought if goons hadn't been talking about how this series becomes completely batshit insane. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 13:03
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Hey. I don't post much but i recently finished season 2 and am looking forward to starting season 3. Love reading all the theories.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:19
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Loving all the theories, hoping to see more.
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Aug 17, 2018 13:40
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I'm also a non-manga-reader, and every episode I'm more and more convinced that the whole "humanity only lives inside the Walls" is total bullshit. Last season already left me wondering considering Annie, Bertholdt and Reiner had to come from somewhere and I genuinely doubt everyone in their society is a Titan-shifter (even if they are, that's still humans that can regain human form), but now I'm even more convinced because we know there's a big conspiracy going on. I feel that maybe there was some big war at some point, the "other society" (Annie's birthplace) created the Titans as an offensive weapon, with a variety of powers with Eren's Coordinate as the biggest of them all (since it can control the rest), and managed to drive "the Wall society" to protect themselves behind the Walls. Without the goverment's knowledge, Grisha had gotten the enemy's trump card, but he refused to use it for a society that only grew more and more corrupt below a fake leader (maybe in the war the Reiss family was taken down by the current fake royalty). Him giving Eren that power may be for the sake of a revolution, but he never got to actually transmit that, hence why he left his answers in the basement. Thus, we have a big conflict of three sides, none of them are exactly pillars of morality: the Scouts, who are now seen as criminals and whose methods have grown, by neccesity, more vile and will likely only get worse with time; the government which wants to keep their fascist, absolute control over the Walls even when people suffer; and the Titan society which wants to finally finish the war they started. And all three sides know that there's one person that can horribly tip the scales, Eren himself, who is blissfully unaware of the scheming and corruption but nonetheless is a massively powerful weapon that could win the war alone if he learned how to properly utilize his Titan powers. All the while you have character-driven conflicts like Levi's with Kenny, who according to the opening seems to have known each other since childhood, seeing the situation I expect Kenny was a father figure to Levi, but now sold himself to the highest bidder in the government. He's likely the person that taught Levi his particular morality as well. And of course, Kenny brings another mystery with him: the Ackermann surname, which connects him to Mikasa of all people, a person he hasn't interacted with at all yet. And inside the goverment, you have a conflict between the fake royalty and the real royalty, with Reiss and Historia, and the people who'd want to put them in power. And whatever the hell Erwin is planning that'll likely make a gigantic difference as well! Man, we have some serious poo poo going on and I can only imagine it'll get even more serious. Can't wait to see where this leads.
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Aug 17, 2018 14:03
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Blaze Dragon posted:I'm also a non-manga-reader, and every episode I'm more and more convinced that the whole "humanity only lives inside the Walls" is total bullshit. Last season already left me wondering considering Annie, Bertholdt and Reiner had to come from somewhere and I genuinely doubt everyone in their society is a Titan-shifter (even if they are, that's still humans that can regain human form), but now I'm even more convinced because we know there's a big conspiracy going on. Eren being ~the coordinate~ is the equivalent of the Tsar Bomba becoming sentient: it will not turn out well. I'm guessing Kenny is Super Deep State Secret Police, like doing some serious CIA-deep cover poo poo working as a "bad guy" for the government. The Kenpeitai are obviously burtalizing anyone who even thinks too much about the Walls (must be why Eren's family was practically living on the Outer Wall) with the purpose of keeping society blissfully ignorant. I love how the show starts within that proletariat, accepting all of their "truths" as axioms. It really puts you into the peasant-mindset of states like North Korea or WWII-era Japan and how those societies survive through the manipulation of "common purpose."
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Aug 17, 2018 17:31
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Adding a bit from the manga that was kind of glossed over here, Erwin's dad's theory is based around the idea that it just doesn't make sense that humanity all but completely 'forgot' its history prior to entering the walls, as even the most comprehensive, aggressive suppression of pre-walls knowledge couldn't have possibly led to the current living situation given the number of people and scant few generations that have passed since (little more than a hundred years). When he said that the king must've erased people's memories, it wasn't a figure of speech. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 18:56
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Maybe Eren's dad stole it from the government and hid it in his son? It seems like titan powers are passed when a titan eats a human ala Ymir's comments, so Eren's dad may get shittiest parent ever award. quote:I dunno...Ol' Armothy may bite the big one now that he can't fly around with the other scouts. It would make for a shocking moment. I'm a little confused by the Ackerman family tree at this point. What happened that we have Mikasa in the middle of the woods and Levi and Kenny underground? Blaze Dragon posted:I feel that maybe there was some big war at some point, the "other society" (Annie's birthplace) created the Titans as an offensive weapon, with a variety of powers with Eren's Coordinate as the biggest of them all (since it can control the rest), and managed to drive "the Wall society" to protect themselves behind the Walls. Without the goverment's knowledge, Grisha had gotten the enemy's trump card, but he refused to use it for a society that only grew more and more corrupt below a fake leader (maybe in the war the Reiss family was taken down by the current fake royalty). Him giving Eren that power may be for the sake of a revolution, but he never got to actually transmit that, hence why he left his answers in the basement. Thus, we have a big conflict of three sides, none of them are exactly pillars of morality: the Scouts, who are now seen as criminals and whose methods have grown, by neccesity, more vile and will likely only get worse with time; the government which wants to keep their fascist, absolute control over the Walls even when people suffer; and the Titan society which wants to finally finish the war they started. And all three sides know that there's one person that can horribly tip the scales, Eren himself, who is blissfully unaware of the scheming and corruption but nonetheless is a massively powerful weapon that could win the war alone if he learned how to properly utilize his Titan powers. Wow, I'm a moron. Somehow I never put together the fact that the Coordinate had to be inside the walls with Grisha having it. New theory with two possible flavors: Grisha came from outside the walls. Version A is that he was sent after the Coordinate, had a change of heart before or after stealing (eating) it, and passed it to Eren when things went to poo poo. Version B is that he was angry at the Outside (government? religion? transformation as punishment? other?), fled inside the walls, somehow found the Coordinate, stole (ate) it for some reason (another corrupt government?), and passed it to Eren when things went to poo poo. Maera Sior fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 19:27
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Another far off thought I'm having is that this show is going to have a similar reveal as Shyamalan's the Village, where it turns out this whole time the population is cloistered from a much more modern one. Maybe this shows population of humans is like an experimental colony that lost its way.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:51
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Another far off thought I'm having is that this show is going to have a similar reveal as Shyamalan's the Village, where it turns out this whole time the population is cloistered from a much more modern one. Maybe this shows population of humans is like an experimental colony that lost its way. I find this really likely. At the very least, we know the outside has a much greater biological engineering knowledge, enough to turn humans into Titans. Inside the Wall, the only person who seemed to know how that worked was Grisha. It's not far-fetched to believe that that isn't their only upgrade over the Wall society, and that overall they're much more advanced. That said, they may be completely war-oriented, and just as bad as a society as the one we know, it's clearly a massively hosed up place as well considering it brainwashes children and turns them into broken, obedient soldiers even if it means mentally breaking them like Reiner.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:54
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Blaze Dragon posted:I find this really likely. At the very least, we know the outside has a much greater biological engineering knowledge, enough to turn humans into Titans. Inside the Wall, the only person who seemed to know how that worked was Grisha. I'll also buy this. Tech inside the walls is very unevenly distributed in its practical use, which further suggests that general scientific knowledge is being suppressed.
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Aug 17, 2018 20:07
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Blaze Dragon posted:I find this really likely. At the very least, we know the outside has a much greater biological engineering knowledge, enough to turn humans into Titans. Inside the Wall, the only person who seemed to know how that worked was Grisha. I'm not convinced that Ymir was born outside the walls. ARB+Dead Guy I am convinced were born ~outside~ the Walls, but Ymir came from within society. I'm guessing if you are serious enough blashpmerer, you get turned into a mindless Titan to roam outside the walls. poo poo, off-the-wall (  ) thought: maybe ALL of the mindless Titans are just former prisoners/exiles from within the Walls who are slowly destroying the world outside the Walls, in addition to penning the Walled population in.  Maera Sior posted:I'll also buy this. Tech inside the walls is very unevenly distributed in its practical use, which further suggests that general scientific knowledge is being suppressed. Definitely...where Eren grew up firearms were a rare sight, they needed a Napoleonic firing line just to take out 4 titans in S1 with rifles. Now people have buckshot pistols they can actually aim with...
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Aug 17, 2018 22:35
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My thoughts: I think the coordinator is something the king/government had control over at one point. The walls are full of titans right? How'd they get in there? The walls must've been built with a coordinator's help. My big question there is: why? Why are there titans in the walls? What practical purpose does that serve? Did they just run low on stone and used the titans as filler? Anyways, if society was created by someone with power over the coordinator, early wall society probably thought of titans much differently than current society. This could be the society ymir came from, with memory of that society being erased by the king. Which brings about a few questions 1. If early society had the coordinator, why did they build the walls? They were able to build the walls OUT of titans, surely the walls weren't there to protect them FROM titans. So what are the walls actually protecting them from? 2. How did the government lose power over the coordinator? I doubt eren's dad was responsible, he seemed relatively high profile for someone who'd be on the government's mega-shitlist. Presumably losing power over the coordinator was why the king altered the history books. 3. Were the titans even always hostile to humans? History was rewritten, so can we even trust stuff like "pre-wall humanity was fighting the titans?" After the government lost the coordinator, maybe whoever got control over it decided to make all humans look delicious to the titans, and previous to that titans were some kind of worker-class of people
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Aug 17, 2018 23:16
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Count me in as a manga-reader who enjoys this show and is enjoying the speculation. It's fun seeing reactions to the same things that threw me for a loop when I got to that part 4 years ago, like Kenny and Mikasa being connected through the same last name . I'm glad to see the discussion too, because I've always loved this arc, and it's very polarizing because it switches to a man vs. man conflict from a man vs. unknown conflict. I personally like this season's world building, and how loving dark it gets with human nature. Donnerberg posted:I'm non-reader. I have no idea what direction the whole political thing will go, but I think there's some other mind fuckery going on. I've bought both the DVD's an the manga, so I have the official translations from Funimation, and that was how that line was translated there. Though take that with a grain of salt, they've had a few hiccups in the official translation, also messed up the German names of characters by guessing from the sounds it's transcribed to in Japanese, rather than considering the specific meaning that was meant I'm a few chapters behind in the manga, so at great personal risk to myself accidentally seeing major spoilers, I looked up that flashback scene because I can understand a rudimentary bit of Japanese, and uh...from what I can understand, that it what he's saying. From what I hear, he's using a plural, and not saying "I" or "our". Yes, I am a meganerd for this show.
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Aug 18, 2018 02:52
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ninjewtsu posted:My thoughts: I think the coordinator is something the king/government had control over at one point. The walls are full of titans right? How'd they get in there? The walls must've been built with a coordinator's help. I think that it was stated that the walls are made of a similar material to Annie-titan's stasis cocoon (and other hardening parts). I surmised that the titans inside were somehow made to produce the walls' outer coating.
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Aug 18, 2018 02:59
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but the outer coating is clearly, visibly man-made, not weird crystal stuff i think the crystal stuff might be an anime original visual thing but like, those walls are clearly made out of stone bricks right? are the inside titans making brick shaped coatings???
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Aug 18, 2018 04:21
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ninjewtsu posted:but the outer coating is clearly, visibly man-made, not weird crystal stuff Look, we had a LOT of grey paint left over
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Aug 18, 2018 04:24
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ninjewtsu posted:but the outer coating is clearly, visibly man-made, not weird crystal stuff Yeah, the big reveal at the end of S1 was that the walls were made of Titans, presumably using Eren's ~coordinate~ power and Annie's ~crystalization~ power. If you know how to control it, it could be as easy as just making a bunch of titans like MonkeyMan, then giving them a specific command to form a wall. As for the bricks, didn't they make a big deal in S1 about how they can't even really construct upon the walls? Isn't damaging them at all supposed to be nearly impossible? I think the real question now is the Wall's purpose to keep titans out (I'm thinking no) or to keep the peasants in (probably yes).
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Aug 18, 2018 05:22
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i thought the big deal was the church was saying that construction on the walls is blasphemy (presumably to prevent people from discovering the titans within)
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Aug 18, 2018 05:27
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Yeah, even before the fall of Wall Maria the Garrison was tasked with doing regular maintenance on the walls, so they're subject to weathering etc. The big deal was the Wall Church opposing any kind of modifications (ie building transport rails and cannon emplacements), as mentioned, presumably to conceal the existence of titans within.
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Aug 18, 2018 05:39
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Non-manga reader, I hate committing to an overall theory, but I want to believe given how brutal the scouts have been with the torturing and stuff that their plan is going to blow up in their face. There's the potential for Historia ending up in a similar situation as Ymir. She's being pressured into a leadership role she isn't prepared for. I also think Pixis is waiting to play his hand, being another secret shifter.
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Aug 18, 2018 09:51
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New theory: Grisha was involved in the Reiss family's deaths, since I don't think just eating the previous coordinate would be "unforgivable."
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Aug 20, 2018 00:49
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Maera Sior posted:New theory: Grisha was involved in the Reiss family's deaths, since I don't think just eating the previous coordinate would be "unforgivable." Or maybe Grisha turned Eren into a titan and had his son do all of the murdering...that would be pretty unforgivable and the sin could be shared.  And where the gently caress did all of these bandits come from prior to the walls coming down? If there was that much lawlessness, did the central government really have any control?
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Aug 20, 2018 03:42
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Or maybe Grisha turned Eren into a titan and had his son do all of the murdering...that would be pretty unforgivable and the sin could be shared. The Walls cover more land then most European countries. Like I believe someone did the math and said that you could fit the entirety of Germany into the walls. And crime is still a thing in those countries.
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Aug 20, 2018 03:57
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Walls cover more land then most European countries. Like I believe someone did the math and said that you could fit the entirety of Germany into the walls. And crime is still a thing in those countries. Well, the math was also wrong. They say over and over that losing the outer wall was a third of humanity's territory. Not sure if that was a mistranslation, but that's not how surface area works in a circle. 
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Aug 20, 2018 04:02
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:And where the gently caress did all of these bandits come from prior to the walls coming down? If there was that much lawlessness, did the central government really have any control? As it happened the night Wall Maria fell, it's implied to have been common folk or petty criminals that banded up and went on a rampage during the ensuing chaos. Currently the government faces the consequences of poverty and overpopulation, but before then they seemed to have had a good grip over the interior of Sina and Rose and especially the districts (the economic and social centers of humanity). It was only the vast territory encircled by Maria that was truly the boondocks, as the Garrison could be as much as a day's distance away from the scattered villages and homesteads.
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Aug 20, 2018 04:05
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Well, the math was also wrong. They say over and over that losing the outer wall was a third of humanity's territory. Not sure if that was a mistranslation, but that's not how surface area works in a circle. It works as long as the second outermost wall is ~80% the radius of the outermost. As far as I can recall, the few illustrations we see of them are either very basic diagrams or otherwise marked to be not necessarily accurate, so that's possible (if unlikely). That, or the actual usable territory in the outermost section is different from the surface area.
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Aug 20, 2018 04:13
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Zomborgon posted:It works as long as the second outermost wall is ~80% the radius of the outermost. As far as I can recall, the few illustrations we see of them are either very basic diagrams or otherwise marked to be not necessarily accurate, so that's possible (if unlikely). I think it's just the simple we have three walls and just lost one.
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Aug 20, 2018 04:51
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Or maybe Grisha turned Eren into a titan and had his son do all of the murdering...that would be pretty unforgivable and the sin could be shared. The timeline in Eren's head is a bit of a mess, but I think there might be a clue in how things played out. Grisha told Eren he would show him the basement, went off for some period of time, the walls came down, and then he reappeared just to inject Eren and get eaten. He probably went to the Reiss estate for what he thought would be an easy mission. Maera Sior fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 12:49
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Something that's been perplexing me: Why do the scouts think anyone will give a poo poo that the Reiss family is "the true royal line"? Like, I get that Fritz was a lovely puppet, but presumably his family have been on the throne for ages. I've read the manga, so I know why the Reiss family is the "real" royal family, but the scouts don't know that history at this point, do they? Why do they think it's important?
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Aug 20, 2018 13:29
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The thing is, you probably could feed humanity off the potential productivity off everything encompassed by Wall Rose. But the problem is, the farms that used to keep Wall Sina's resident's fed were lost and no longer under the control of Sina's residents. So when Sina flooded into Rose, it strained the productivity of Rose's agriculture, and it took a long time for land inside Rose to be cleared, grain sown and harvested. Plus, the best land was already under cultivation, and what land agriculture was expanded into was likely marginal at best.
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Aug 20, 2018 13:50
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The_White_Crane posted:Something that's been perplexing me: Considering that government by monarchy's kind of a crock of poo poo in the first place, arbitrary things like "This person is of real actual royal blood, actually!" carries about as much weight as anything else. They made a point in this episode talking about how people are going to be anxious due to the change in the status quo no matter what. I think the idea is to use their ties to the private sector (the business kind, not the nobles who probably just own land and sit on money) and the press to keep any flareups from occurring. Plus, "We'll reclaim the outer wall" is a better platform to people who are desperate for work and food/rich people getting anxious about said refugees and encroachment than "We're gonna keep on doing what we've been doing"
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Aug 20, 2018 13:57
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The_White_Crane posted:Something that's been perplexing me: The scouts are probably down with it because they have Historia. Whether the common folk truly believe in divine right if kings or whatever will influence whether they give a poo poo about the “true” royal family.
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Aug 20, 2018 15:43
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The_White_Crane posted:Something that's been perplexing me: Figureheads and traditions are important. People are used to there being a king - it's a fundamental part of their world - and for a coup d'etat to garner as much popular support as possible it must both legitimize its actions while shaking the status quo the least possible beyond their aspired goals. This is why when dictators and oligarchs take control of democracies they install themselves as presidents-for-life rather than declaring themselves monarchs. In the case of AoT then, the military legitimizes their actions by declaring the current King of the Walls and the nobles serving him to be an illegal government only interested in their own wealth and not in the well-being of humanity, who they've led astray since the fall of Wall Maria. And to further strengthen this claim they intend to present Historia Reiss, daughter of a well-known noble family, as the true heir to the throne and craft a sympathetic narrative around her. As for what knowledge the scouts have at this point: - They know the Church is privy to the secrets of this world. - They know the Government is likewise, evidenced by the MPs murdering Pastor Nick. - They know Historia is Rod Reiss' illegitimate child. - They know the Reiss are the true royal family, as later divulged by the captured MPs. - Erwin's theory is that the Government possesses or possessed a power that let them control humanity and possibly build the walls. - However, the Government has been either unable or unwilling to use it in the 5 years since Wall Maria fell. Erwin's gambles have been correctly guessing that Historia was more than just some noble's illegitimate child, and that the Crown does not currently possess the power to stop the titans (or the coup d'etat). His later confirmed guess that Historia was specifically a royal came from betting that whoever held the power to create this world could've set themselves as kings, but just as easily control it behind a figurehead, so with Historia being connected to the secrets of the world then it was natural to assume she - and the Reiss noble family - were the ones directly tied to this power.
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Aug 20, 2018 15:57
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So, how does the whole titan's eating shifters to gain their powers line up with Eren first showing off his powers after getting eaten in the first season.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:44
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Sam Faust posted:So, how does the whole titan's eating shifters to gain their powers line up with Eren first showing off his powers after getting eaten in the first season.  M...maybe they have to die ~all the way~?
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Aug 20, 2018 17:45
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Yeah there is probably a digestion time.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:49
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Stallman Titan didn't chew.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:56
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| # ? May 29, 2024 13:47 |
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So seeing where the episodes so far have gotten, based on its current pacing, there is a specific end point the anime is beelining towards. I highly, highly recommend sticking with the show no matter how much some may dislike the current stuff because the stuff they're going to hit before this season is over is easily the best in the entire series. God I can't wait to see some things animated, especially considering those shots of Levi spidermanning through crowded streets from the episodes out so far, I cannot wait.
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Aug 20, 2018 22:57
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