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The HBO show How To With John Wilson has an episode with avatar super fans and it honestly made me respect the movie way more
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May 6, 2022 21:45
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Bottom Liner posted:Avatar 2 will be much like the first. Fun as hell to watch and exceeding stupid to think about. Bleeding edge still. I've followed the production a little, and he tried to push for glasses free stereo 3D, but the technology isn't there yet I guess? Someone else probably knows more. The biggest leap he made from what I've read is utilizing high frame rate to smooth out the film judder in 3D during action scenes. I imagine 70mm IMAX 3D is still the best way to view the film, which is how I watched the first one and it was crazy. [edit] https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/james-cameron-disagrees-ang-lee-high-frame-rate-avatar-1202184115/ quote:Cameron said that he only shot select scenes of his “Avatar” sequels at 120 frames per second so that he could smooth out some of the 3D. Unlike “Gemini Man,” the “Avatar” sequels were not entirely filmed at 120 frames per second. teagone fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 21:45
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Bottom Liner posted:Actual standalone stories would be exploring different characters/tribes/times. This is very much a continuation of the characters' story even if the events of this movie are their own arc. Its pretty lame that they're just repeating human vs alien conflict already though. I more so meant that there won't be cliffhangers or sequel hooks between the films. Cameron and his producer have been saying this for years, but yes, the movies are all going to follow Sully and his family on different adventures. It's an argument of semantics I guess if you wanna be goony about it lol. [edit] Rumor for a while now is that there's a civil war going on between Na'vi tribes since other tribes don't like the idea of a hybrid being the leader of one. Dunno how credible that is, but it's hard to cull any information about the story from the 90 second teaser. teagone fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 21:51
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back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff).
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May 6, 2022 21:57
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Bottom Liner posted:back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff). Movie Rule #1: Don't see the body. Not dead.
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May 6, 2022 22:00
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Bottom Liner posted:back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff). superheroes love to die apparently and then show up later. Maybe she's got a bubble around her while she thinks about how much she hosed up
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May 6, 2022 22:02
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Bottom Liner posted:back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? We didn't see a body, Elizabeth Olson is excited to return to the character if they ask her to, and how dirty this movie did Wanda is something that isn't sitting right (arguably rightfully so) with her and the character's very large fanbase, so I imagine it's very unlikely that that sticks.
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May 6, 2022 22:03
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Bottom Liner posted:back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff). They're gonna bring her back and everyone will gasp when it happens. She's supposed to be a hero and she died at the end of her worst moments as a villain. The setup for a redemption arc seems like an absolutely resonable one and almost blatantly clear tbh lmao. Also yeah, no body no death lol. Horror movie 101 poo poo.
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May 6, 2022 22:03
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Was this perhaps the lowest stakes of an MCU movie in quite some time? The only real danger/threat was Wanda wanting to kill America, right? More self-contained stories like this, please.
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May 6, 2022 22:07
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Gin_Rummy posted:Was this perhaps the lowest stakes of an MCU movie in quite some time? The only real danger/threat was Wanda wanting to kill America, right? More self-contained stories like this, please. She was likely going to cause an incursion and kill trillions of people too. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 22:08
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More thoughts: - Really liked the Ultron callbacks with the rubble (which I assume was a Sokovia throwback) and Wanda using her suggestion powers. - The "you never told me her name" bit was great - Elizabeth Olsen kills it in this movie, generally. Wonderfully menacing acting, wonderful moments of vulnerability, and those moments where she breaks into more formal speech as evidence of her corruption carry really well. - It's very funny that Stephen and Mordo have off-screen adventures we will never know about. That's real comic book hours - Re: the Mordo scene at the Illuminati HQ: I love that Stephen's other superpower is being extremely loving annoying. The guy at the beginning who's like "thank you for asking" at him is a fun character moment that underscores the fact that Stephen is a naturally alienating and unlikable person. But the moment at the end where he cops to his fear of emotional intimacy doesn't really feel earned. More could've been done to highlight the fact that him pep-talking America was him "giving up the knife," as people keep telling him to do. You don't really get the sense that his control issues have been meaningfully confronted otherwise. I think this was the case in the first movie too, though; in general I think the character is subject to being under-written, to a point where I wonder if they were too hesitant to make him at all an unlikable person. - Re: the Illuminati in general: kind of bummed we didn't get Tom Cruise Iron Man; Peggy's costume fit was weird; Jim Halpert Reed Richards sucks rear end and I'm glad he's dead; in general Wanda massacring these dudes was very rewarding - The camerawork and cinematography are delightful, just as you'd expect from a Raimi film. I love his style; it feels really well-suited to magic chicanery. All in all, very fun. I love my dumb bastard wizard man. I will probably be dead before we get a Strange and Clea movie.
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May 6, 2022 22:09
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Gin_Rummy posted:Was this perhaps the lowest stakes of an MCU movie in quite some time? The only real danger/threat was Wanda wanting to kill America, right? More self-contained stories like this, please. Wanda had been corrupted by the dark hold so whatever that entails if continued combined with the power to travel about the multiverse seems like a big deal because of the whole incursion thing?
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May 6, 2022 22:09
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Gin_Rummy posted:Was this perhaps the lowest stakes of an MCU movie in quite some time? The only real danger/threat was Wanda wanting to kill America, right? More self-contained stories like this, please. They throw the incursion stuff in there but honestly I doubt most viewers would care if they didn't read a pretty specific timeframe of avengers comics.
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May 6, 2022 22:10
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Wanda's body count in this movie was pretty high. Is she still an Avenger? Avengers are cool with killing, right? Lol.
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May 6, 2022 22:13
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I'm sure Avatar 2 will look great but the Na'vi have a '00s CGI vibe that can't really be undone.
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May 6, 2022 22:14
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Gin_Rummy posted:Was this perhaps the lowest stakes of an MCU movie in quite some time? The only real danger/threat was Wanda wanting to kill America, right? More self-contained stories like this, please. If Wanda got America's powers, she would be able to travel the multiverse at will. Remember when Wong asks her why she needs to take America's power, and Wanda says because what if her kids get sick? There will be a universe with a cure she can go to? It follows along the same path that she will never be happy even if she has her kids, she wants a perfect world and will kill anyone to get it. And with the Darkhold corruption, Wanda as the Scarlet Witch would either rule the multiverse or annihilate it. The incursions also seem to be a side effect of multiversal traversal.
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May 6, 2022 22:16
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teagone posted:Wanda's body count in this movie was pretty high. Is she still an Avenger? Avengers are cool with killing, right? Lol. Wanda's body count was the inciting incident for the Sokovia Accords. She'll bounce back from this, too. They lampshaded the fact that the Darkhold was corrupting her, so with that out of the way she has a narrative path back to being the hero. Not to mention Strange's pointed comment about her doing the right thing at the end re: Westview.
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May 6, 2022 22:21
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teagone posted:Wanda's body count in this movie was pretty high. Is she still an Avenger? Avengers are cool with killing, right? Lol. There's officially no Avengers anymore. They all definitely killed.
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May 6, 2022 22:22
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There's officially no Avengers anymore. Strange explicitly talked about the Avengers lunchbox though  And yeah, I forgot about Clint going on a rampage lmao. Also Falcon literally blowing up dudes in Civil War lol. [edit] Rental Sting posted:I'm sure Avatar 2 will look great but the Na'vi have a '00s CGI vibe that can't really be undone. That's gonna be part of the movie's charm imo. teagone fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 6, 2022 |
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May 6, 2022 22:29
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The Illuminati/838 Universe Avengers being chumps was pretty funny, but also thematically appropriate. They basically cheated to defeat Thanos in their universe, killed the guy who made it possible, and then got lazy because they had never had a real threat to deal with. Even their Ultron was just a glorified security robot/Alexa for their office because he worked perfectly and didn't go insane.
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May 6, 2022 22:40
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teagone posted:Strange explicitly talked about the Avengers lunchbox though Even Clint's poo poo can be rationalised as they were bad people who had escape justice a la the Punisher. Wanda just straight up merks the majority of the forces of Kamer Taj, a full team of superheroes and one Sorcerer Supreme
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May 6, 2022 22:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Illuminati/838 Universe Avengers being chumps was pretty funny, but also thematically appropriate. They basically cheated to defeat Thanos in their universe, killed the guy who made it possible, and then got lazy because they had never had a real threat to deal with. I mean, they had pizza balls. Rarity posted:Even Clint's poo poo can be rationalised as they were bad people who had escape justice a la the Punisher. Wanda just straight up merks the majority of the forces of Kamer Taj, a full team of superheroes and one Sorcerer Supreme Lol, true.
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May 6, 2022 23:10
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I had a blast watching this tonight. I'm far from a fan of Barbiturate Cirencester but he loving rules in this, he plays Strange Prime better than he ever has and all the variants of the character are hella fun. I was so happy seeing Wong and particularly McAdams having more active roles as they're both great. Sam Raimi utterly crushes the direction. The film is funny, dramatic and terrifying whenever it needs to be and I admired that it gets straight the gently caress on with it and the tempo never lets up. Scarlet Witch is possibly the best villain the MCU has ever had, Raimi did an amazing job of making her legitimately terrifying and the scale of her powers was really impressive. I thought the Illuminati scene was fun, especially when the fight scene starts and Raimi takes the opportunity to really cut loose and have them all be cut down in increasingly horrible ways. I'm happy that this movie is how they finally got Some Good News to play Reed Richards and hope they leave it at that, I thought he was a charisma vortex and clearly couldn't be all that bothered, I can't imagine him carrying a movie.
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May 6, 2022 23:32
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I gather I'm in the minority here but I enjoyed America Chavez / Xochitl Gomez, too. For me they managed to avoid the usual pitfalls of a character like that - she wasn't overly whiny, she wasn't a smartass 100% of the time, she was neither completely helpless nor completely overpowered, and her character was actually important to the plot. I will say that the star portals on paper are a completely stupid thing, but the WHAM noise and the fact that she punches holes in dimensions is enjoyably comic booky for me. Marvel is quicky gathering a lot of people that have cosmic laser bolty powers, though, which isn't quite as fun overall. At some point they're going to have to explain why just one universe has/had Captain America, Second Captain America, Captain Marvel, Second Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Miss America, with all of the women having the power to shoot blasts of glowing stuff from nothing. Granted, I doubt they'll actually go to the "Miss America" title. Jackie D posted:
This movie establishes that the Illuminati people we saw are all from that particular universe (834 or whatever) and they are not travelers. I'm also wondering about the whole "cartoon universes" aspect. It seems they are implying that shows like What If aren't just being artistically depicted as animated, that's just what life looks like in those universes. At the same time, Strange and America turn into animations when they go into that world, so you'd think that if the Captain Carter from What If were to actually leave her universe and join a non-animated one she'd look like she did in this movie. Unfortunately this means we can't get some sort of insane Who Framed Roger Rabbit scenario, but alas. I do think it's important for long-term enjoyment of this franchise, especially at this point, to realize the canon is pretty loose and the rules of what other dimensions are, how you get there, how changing things affects other universes, etc. is subject to change at any moment. Adrianics posted:I had a blast watching this tonight. I honestly enjoy him as an actor in this role more than pretty much anything else he does. I feel like he takes it the right amount of seriously. Glottis fucked around with this message at 00:08 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 00:05
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The Avatar 2 trailer I didn’t expect at all, and failed to provoke any reaction whatsoever from me. Don’t think I’ll be watching that. I got strong “we have a bunch of cool ideas but are struggling to get them to flow together. Minor tweaks me and a friend mulled over: Wanda does not start with the Darkhold. She finds out about America when Strange tells her he wants her help, and then attempts to steal her powers. At this stage she doesn’t go about murdering loads of people and has a smaller scale fight with Strange and Wong. No magic monks firing ineffective arrows. As in the film America and Strange escape to the other universe, but believing they are safe since she has no way to follow. Wanda, furious, gets the info about the Darkhold from Wong when interrogating him on how to chase after them, and this takes them to the mountain. No weird scene where a character with 15 seconds of screen time who I’m pretty sure was introduced a whole 5 minutes earlier heroically stabs a book to absolutely no long term benefit. Wanda gets to the evil mountain, starts doing the evil spell and clearly gets corrupted by the Darkhold in the process. No random unexplained prophecy or effigy on the wall, not needed. Now we’re in the same place as the film and can carry on as normal. But wait! If Wanda only gets the Darkhold half way through the film, who is responsible for the demons and entities chasing America up to this point?! The other Darkhold user, Evil Dr. Strange! He has the ability, a strong motive to wanting to be able to get out of his current Universe and it doubles down ever further on “the most dangerous person to the multiverse is Dr. Strange.” So yeah no massive changes but just trying to get things to flow more. And giving Wanda more of a lead up to “mass murdering maniac” Scarlet Witch. Oh and lastly, the most important change: Why the heck wouldn’t you put a bed and some other basic furniture in the holding cells?! Just rude.
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May 7, 2022 00:30
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Bottom Liner posted:back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff). We saw a scarlet flash as Mount Wundagore collapsed, which could have been Wanda escaping with her powers. I imagine they've deliberately left it ambiguous - Elizabeth Olsen has now done five movies, a cameo and a TV series so depending how they add things up she may be at the end of the usual Marvel seven-production contract. "We'd like you back, but we can leave you dead" is a negotiating position.
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May 7, 2022 00:51
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America Chavez kicked rear end.
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May 7, 2022 00:56
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CelticPredator posted:America Chavez kicked rear end. I like her too! It’s a shame half her dialog was ”AHH!!”
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May 7, 2022 01:09
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how do you pronounce Xochitl?
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May 7, 2022 02:02
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CelticPredator posted:America Chavez kicked rear end. I didn't realize she was an actual comic book character. I thought she was created just for the film lol. I liked her a lot. Good performance from someone I didn't expect to be so young after looking up the actress.
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May 7, 2022 02:08
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Barreft posted:how do you pronounce Xochitl? Wikipedia has it as "SOH-chee"
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May 7, 2022 02:13
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Rental Sting posted:He does rule, but also gets his rear end kicked up and down throughout the whole movie and appears so much weaker than Strange. Really prompts me to question his legitimacy as Sorcerer Supreme . I think thats part of the point.
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May 7, 2022 02:14
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Zombie Strange using souls of the damned as armor was awesome. Very much enjoyed this movie. I went in 100% blind, not even knowing Sam Raimi was involved. Instantly recognizable and it worked perfectly.
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May 7, 2022 02:16
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With the amount of death and destruction done, I wonder if there might be a "Fringe"-like universal conflict/revenge in the future.
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May 7, 2022 03:28
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Well...a mixed, middling, mediocre Marvel movie with some good Raimi moments. Elizabeth Olsen rocks in this which is the major highlight but otherwise an ok amount of multiverse but needed more madness. The disappointing... I'm shocked at how casually, with no weight or gravity, the reveal of Wanda as the villain was. There were other moments that needed some gravitas and had none. I don't know if this was one of those Marvel quippy bullshit things but it's disappointing. This teetered on some MCU bullshit with some good stuff here and there. I also felt that while the most imaginative sequence was the music fight, it could have used more creativity overall at least in how it was filmed as a lot of it also included simplistic shields and bolts. But I'll take the most Raimi stuff with the souls of the damned fighting Wanda. The Book of Vishanti was apparently a useless prop. They did Wanda dirty. Completely agree. This was monumentally disappointing and I don't know if they'll just get a multiversal Wanda to replace her because I want to see more Elizabeth Olsen. I didn't feel anything about the Illuminati probably because of how disposable they were and it's kind of lame to have it be this way. I can only hope this is just a glimpse of one and we'll get something more substansive later. I feel it fell flat outside of the amusing Black Bolt death. Waste of the actors. The following is not really valid because it doesn't engage with the movie, but it could have used more horror type filming or "perspective." Wundergore was underwhelming for how it could have been depicted as a place with spells on the walls and how Wanda could have drawn from it. Even the Guardians were disappointingly dispatched. The Socs are not threatening at all, that was a lame defense. The good... Elizabeth Olsen loving ruled as a terminator-esque possessed witch coming for her prey. I also bought her emotional moments. She carried this movie on her back and I want more of her. Some of the sets were nice. Some of the Raimi moments were nice. The monsters were cool. The souls of the damned were cool. I always love some Rachel McAdams. I liked America Chavez and the actress. My one great big hope...they're hinting at Hickman's multiverse Everything Dies storyline with the Illuminati and Incursions. Tying that in with Kang would loving rule. I hope we get the Fantastic Four soon because they're core to that whole storyline. God I hope they do this, it's the greatest Marvel storyline/event imo. and it should culminate in Secret War. The mid credits stinger cameo was nice. My gripe is that if I can have a horror experience like from Event Horizon or madness like from Mandy, like why can't I get that creepiness/dread/asthetic in an MCU movie? Perhaps it needs Nicholas Cage. EDIT: More I think about it, it does have some creative uses of magic so I shouldn't be that hard on it. Gatts fucked around with this message at 03:55 on May 7, 2022 |
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May 7, 2022 03:48
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Due to one of the major plot points, I kept expecting Nightmare to show up somehow.
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May 7, 2022 04:36
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Due to one of the major plot points, I kept expecting Nightmare to show up somehow. So was I. When I was watching the trailer, I was expecting that scene at the end with a sort of undead Strange with multiple arms being Nightmare. But instead it was Undead Strange with the souls of the damned. I was expecting an evil Strange as a villain and Scarlett Witch being a temporary thrall until freed.
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May 7, 2022 04:43
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Hell yes this owned Glad they just made Wanda the villain and relentless
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May 7, 2022 05:23
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So Strange's shenanigans in No Way Home didn't matter? They seemed to have no bearing on this story.
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May 7, 2022 05:27
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Mr Fantastic saying that Strange is the biggest threat to the multiverse got a small chuckle from me as a comic nerd. I mean that's really rich coming from you Stretch.
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May 7, 2022 05:29
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