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Digiwizzard posted:*In between writing vox think pieces talking about how we need to set stronger limits on speech to save Twitter from toxic sexist + racist proles* how dare you call me a liberal *doesnt know a goddamn thing about anything* *is you* leftism? why should I, I just got here?
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Jan 14, 2017 20:18
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Seizure Meat posted:Perhaps that had more to do with the fact that Britain then went on to fight an extremely bloody war against a fascist state. Nelson Mandela was a guerilla fighter waging war against the Apartheid state. That is obviously a case where it would have been good if they just let the coup plotters take over without resistance, but nobody is going to follow the logic of "waging violence against coup plotters just proves their point by their own logic." The Nazi Party didn't rise to prominence because the police suppressing the Beer Hall Putsch proved his own point, it's because the people of Germany (particularly the middle classes & Bourgeoisie) were uniquely receptive to the message of Nazism under post-war conditions. And the fascists were suppressed in Britain, because the state persecuted their free speech by doing things like making it illegal to wear political uniforms in public, which made it difficult to impossible for them to organize.
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Jan 14, 2017 20:22
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jarofpiss posted:*doesnt know a goddamn thing about anything* *is you* leftism? why should I, I just got here? your a v capable satirist
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Jan 14, 2017 20:24
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wasn't Nelson Mandela a communist?
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Jan 14, 2017 20:24
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jarofpiss posted:wasn't Nelson Mandela a communist? quote:Former CIA spy says he helped South Africa arrest 'communist toy' Nelson Mandela lol
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Jan 14, 2017 20:26
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Squizzle posted:your a v capable satirist I'm actually a shitposter that is barely coherent at the best of Times
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Jan 14, 2017 20:26
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jarofpiss posted:I'm actually a shitposter 
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Jan 14, 2017 20:37
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jarofpiss posted:don't u call me a fuckin liberal u son of a bitch! You are worse, a reactionary.
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Jan 14, 2017 20:38
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:You are worse, a reactionary. i don't think this word means what you think it means
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Jan 14, 2017 21:03
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unless your about to drop some really heavy horseshoe theory on me...
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Jan 14, 2017 21:04
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Is this the thread for baby communists to retreat in to fantasies of violence because they don't want to admit that their ideology failed and is very unpopular?
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Jan 14, 2017 21:12
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jarofpiss posted:unless your about to drop some really heavy horseshoe theory on me... my theory is that really heavy horseshoes would just anchor a horses feet in place
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Jan 14, 2017 21:15
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Just think how great a benevolent dictatorship would be? Communism is the same way.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:18
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Guy Goodbody posted:Is this the thread for baby communists to retreat in to fantasies of violence because they don't want to admit that their ideology failed and is very unpopular? Actually it's the thread for you to lecture us on how fascists are people too, and you shouldn't fight them because fighting is wrong.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:19
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well op it's because as the wheel of history turns, i don't want laws curtailing the free speech of today's undesirables to come to be wielded against the forces of good. like giving the POTUS carte blanche to drone strike indiscriminately and detain citizens indefinitely without trial was relatively uncontroversial under a level headed operator like Obama, but now we're a week away from President Trump and guess what, he's inheriting all those same powers. so much of liberal/leftist activism is in response to the abuses of entrenched, systemic power, but now people want to weaken a fundamental liberty and hand over even greater control over to a power structure that they otherwise view with extreme distrust. all in the name of protecting the oppressed. like lmao you stupid loving morons do you even realize how idiotic you sound.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:36
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Also the thread title should read "centrist libs and repubs talk about why censorship is actually good itt"
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Jan 14, 2017 21:38
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A lot of countries have laws designed specifically to repress fascism, yet aren't also giving their heads of state vast unchecked imperial powers. I kind of doubt the two concerns are actually related in a significant way.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:40
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the presence of like in that sentence indicated the use of simile, a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid also a lot of countries don't even have freedom of speech on the books, much less operate from an American position of unlimited free speech moving towards curtailment
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Jan 14, 2017 21:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:A lot of countries have laws designed specifically to repress fascism, yet aren't also giving their heads of state vast unchecked imperial powers. I kind of doubt the two concerns are actually related in a significant way. A lot of countries are poo poo compared to the US. If it's not Single Payer Healthcare I honestly don't' give a poo poo about what the do. Especially since they can't seem to handle basic rights like "freedom of speech."
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Jan 14, 2017 21:43
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the trump tutelage posted:the presence of like in that sentence indicated the use of simile, a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid The point is that the problem is America's commitment to a forever war as an imperial power, not the threat of backsliding into fascism because we wouldn't have unlimited free speech - which isn't even true. The Smith Act is still on the books, and it's basically an antisedition act which would allow the government to prosecute anyone who advocates for its overthrow. All it takes is a right wing supreme court that doesn't consider seditious speech to be free, and a right wing Executive willing to enforce the act - and suddenly a lot of people are going to be facing down jail sentences. I'm not even arguing about seditious speech, but genocidal speech. Which fascists and Nazis advocate explicitly.
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Jan 14, 2017 21:51
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So I have a different take on this, but I need to get a few things straight first:
Okay, with that out of the way: jarofpiss, I love you, really, you're a great guy. Here's what you don't get: people are not born violent. They try not to hurt other people, if they can avoid it, because to hurt another person is a traumatic thing. But, violence is something that people can do, and do a lot of, it they become acclimatized to it. That acclimatization takes exposure, and time. But it doesn't come for free, it has a cost associated with it. You, as a normal person, do not want to endure that cost. You, personally, are better off if you can avoid committing violence, and live a long, fulfilling & peaceful life. You're much better off using things like video games as a catharsis for aggression, and working towards your future, then you are engaging in violent political struggle. Because you know who are acclimatized to violence? Fascists. They commit a lot of it, for a variety of reasons, which means they're usually in and out of prison like it's loving daycare. For such people, who usually have poo poo lives anyway and have already been exposed to violence, fascism offers a rationalization for their lovely behavior, and an outlet for their various psychological disorders. You don't want to be like them, and if you have to be like them, because that's what the current political situation demands, then we have much, much, much bigger problems than free speech. Talking legal minutiae at that point is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic, you're much better off accepting that you'll be arrested and committing those actions anyway, than trying to make some legal argument as to why you should get a special exception or whatever. But I suspect that you're not psychological prepared for what you're saying you want here, because unless you have served active duty in a conflict zone, or committed murder or some other equivalent crime, you do not know what it means to be violent.
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Jan 14, 2017 22:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The point is that the problem is America's commitment to a forever war as an imperial power, not the threat of backsliding into fascism because we wouldn't have unlimited free speech - which isn't even true. The Smith Act is still on the books, and it's basically an antisedition act which would allow the government to prosecute anyone who advocates for its overthrow. All it takes is a right wing supreme court that doesn't consider seditious speech to be free, and a right wing Executive willing to enforce the act - and suddenly a lot of people are going to be facing down jail sentences. well then its a good thing that your countering this w such public policy slam dunks as "you know what people shouldnt be allowed to say political things i find v objectionable" a productive use of yr protesting power for sure
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Jan 14, 2017 22:36
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the only violence against a fascist american state worth discussing is forcing the state to murder you publicly so as to rally america as a whole against a fascist regime. i'm an attractive white male so i'll make a good corpse for the cause.
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Jan 14, 2017 22:37
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Squizzle posted:well then its a good thing that your countering this w such public policy slam dunks as "you know what people shouldnt be allowed to say political things i find v objectionable" "The only home for faggots is a mass grave" is just politics, folks. Nothing to see here.
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Jan 14, 2017 22:37
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cams posted:the only violence against a fascist american state worth discussing is forcing the state to murder you publicly so as to rally america as a whole against a fascist regime.
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Jan 14, 2017 22:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:"The only home for faggots is a mass grave" is just politics, folks. Nothing to see here. lmebo you goofball your conflating opposition to your idiot policy for dumb morons w support for the ideologies said policy is clumsily trying to suppress
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Jan 14, 2017 22:52
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rudatron posted:ur better looking alive, i'm not into necrophilia
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Jan 14, 2017 22:54
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um excuse me im extremely bothered that you wont support my plan to hide all the worlds nuclear warheads inside an abandoned warehouse in baton rouge, why do you support nuclear proliferation you warmonger —a direct quote from pener kropoopkin, july 2007
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Jan 14, 2017 22:56
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Squizzle posted:lmebo you goofball your conflating opposition to your idiot policy for dumb morons w support for the ideologies said policy is clumsily trying to suppress Bashing the fash & suppressing their movement = "idiot policy for dumb morons" - a liberal
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Jan 14, 2017 22:56
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Kropoopkin, what do you think of my wall of text? it applies to you as much as it does jarofpiss
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Jan 14, 2017 22:58
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"Wow, way to prove my point by my own logic. You have no idea how bad you look right now." - Squizzle before being led into the gas chambers
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Jan 14, 2017 22:58
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cams posted:yeah but i'm poor and not famous so the best way for me to have an immediate impact is to be the story of a young californian man who works to attend a state school so he can teach high school, told by a news anchor next to a picture of me after i have been gunned down while participating in a peaceful protest Actually, I think you'd have more impact if you spent your lifetime teaching than if you got shot by somebody and died tomorrow
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Jan 14, 2017 22:59
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rudatron posted:Kropoopkin, what do you think of my wall of text? it applies to you as much as it does jarofpiss I think it's a fine sentiment, and I agree with a lot of it. Namely that my life is better off not trying to get into street fights. Although, I'm not going to begrudge young people for fighting them, because imo that's self-defense and not assault. Letting liberals try and define fascism is a mistake, that's true. Which is why only the JDPON can be trusted to mete out justice in this regard.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:01
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:"Wow, way to prove my point by my own logic. You have no idea how bad you look right now." - Squizzle before being led into the gas chambers It's cute that "bash the fash" types imagine that getting beaten up by a KKK dude is a brave stand against the second holocaust, which is going to happen very soon. Or at least it would happen soon, if not for Pener Kropoopkin, Genuine Socialist Hero.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:01
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if it's only viable under full communism, then why the gently caress are you arguing about it now? that's worse than pointless
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Jan 14, 2017 23:02
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Guy Goodbody posted:Actually, I think you'd have more impact if you spent your lifetime teaching than if you got shot by somebody and died tomorrow hope it doesn't come to that but if people want to have a legitimate conversation about the use of violence against a fascist american state, that's my contribution.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:03
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also the problem isn't just one of the ideology of the state, so much as power structures and the way they get abused. legal creep is a very real thing, eg- i hear there's been pushing to get environmentalists treated with the same powers reserved for terrorists because they're 'eco-terrorists' or whatever. it's going to happen under literally any state structure that uses laws.
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Jan 14, 2017 23:05
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rudatron posted:if it's only viable under full communism, then why the gently caress are you arguing about it now? that's worse than pointless posting is pointless my dude I argue it now, because liberalism is dumb. Guy Goodbody posted:It's cute that "bash the fash" types imagine that getting beaten up by a KKK dude is a brave stand against the second holocaust, which is going to happen very soon. Or at least it would happen soon, if not for Pener Kropoopkin, Genuine Socialist Hero. Making sure the KKK couldn't rally in public without getting bricked in the face would certainly prevent the second holocaust though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCb2Le3wtIk
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Jan 14, 2017 23:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:"Wow, way to prove my point by my own logic. You have no idea how bad you look right now." - Squizzle before being led into the gas chambers haha yeah that was a crazy day, good memory p-kro
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Jan 14, 2017 23:09
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i think we went boogie boarding the day before that we had some laffs that weekend
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Jan 14, 2017 23:10
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