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Ben Nerevarine posted:If you want a more relatable protagonist, read Book of the Long Sun. Silk is still a dumbass, but he’s a sweet, well-meaning dumbass, unlike Severian, who is kind of a monster (but he’s our monster!) the whole joke in the book is that its all through the point of view of severian which is why every woman is super into him, and why all the fights always end with him doing something epic
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May 13, 2024 14:30
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I hated Shadow on my first read! It didn't work at all as a stand alone novel and the end stinger only annoyed me. It was years before I read it again, and now I love all four books. That first book is laugh a riot because you read it from the understanding that Sev is King Dipshit -- but then even King Dipshit becomes kinda great by the end of Urth of the New Sun Whale Vomit fucked around with this message at 05:02 on May 16, 2024 |
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May 16, 2024 04:43
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Also those passages describing Jolenta's appearance bear up under a close reading. Wolfe isn't describing just another curvaceous female body but a shape that's almost grotesque and inhuman.
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May 16, 2024 06:20
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Just started Long Sun 15 years after I finished the shadow series. It feels way less dense/deep than what I remember of shadow, which is probably a good thing considering my headspace. Kinda kicking myself for not reading it sooner because I like it a lot but someone on these forums ruined the framing reveal, and it's only 15 years later that I've mostly forgot what was spoiled.
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May 16, 2024 17:55
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If you mean the generation ship thing, the series doesn't really pretend it's a mystery.
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May 16, 2024 19:55
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anilEhilated posted:If you mean the generation ship thing, the series doesn't really pretend it's a mystery. Presumably Horn being the writer
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May 16, 2024 20:10
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Yadoppsi posted:Also those passages describing Jolenta's appearance bear up under a close reading. Wolfe isn't describing just another curvaceous female body but a shape that's almost grotesque and inhuman. I seem to remember a passage where he suddenly is seeing her from another angle, I'm not sure if it's because she's doing something different or a shift in perspective from him, and he can only see the artifice of her.
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May 18, 2024 19:31
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From memory she always seemed intentionally grotesque to me and I recall discussion of her being completely reliant upon the doctor for her appearance.
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May 20, 2024 00:57
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Atlas Hugged posted:From memory she always seemed intentionally grotesque to me and I recall discussion of her being completely reliant upon the doctor for her appearance. She's the waitress from the inn where severian first meets dr. talos and baldanders. whatever glamour dr. talos put on her causes her to die when he stops keeping it up. her appearance is basically like a sexy cartoon, an exaggeration of sexually appealing features in a way that doesn't function in reality (hence, for example, the note that she can't walk long distances because her thighs rub each other raw)
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May 20, 2024 05:02
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Unnatural glamours causing problems is a recurrent Wolfe thing An Evil Guest is largely about that, among many other things What a strange book that is
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May 20, 2024 05:34
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I’m about 100 pages into shadow and claw. I was initially interested in reading BotNS with the idea it had the deep world building of a far future setting that something like The Dying Earth lacks. But while there’s been some interesting hints of what Urth is (the trip to the library, the description of the windows and strange lights in the highest level of the tower, the geographic/ecological references to South America) I’ve got a feeling all of these clues remain teases without ever congealing into a coherent whole. Is that the case, and all descriptions of the history and setting of the world are just bits and pieces that are cool but never really fit together?
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May 25, 2024 14:07
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I’m about 100 pages into shadow and claw. I was initially interested in reading BotNS with the idea it had the deep world building of a far future setting that something like The Dying Earth lacks. But while there’s been some interesting hints of what Urth is (the trip to the library, the description of the windows and strange lights in the highest level of the tower, the geographic/ecological references to South America) I’ve got a feeling all of these clues remain teases without ever congealing into a coherent whole. Is that the case, and all descriptions of the history and setting of the world are just bits and pieces that are cool but never really fit together? A lot of the info is in the text, but it's hidden under typical Wolfean layers of indirect reference and unreliable narrators. With enough puzzling and reading outside commentary you can fit them together in your head a lot better than the impressionistic Dying Earth (nothing negative about that masterwork by the way). But unless you have a brain like Mr. Wolfe, it's going to be a job of work. If you enjoy that kind of thing, it's great. Otherwise, look stome stuff up would be my recommendation.
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May 25, 2024 14:36
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Early in Sword you'll find a fascinating if open to interpretation telling of how humankind ended up in this state.
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May 25, 2024 15:07
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It’s not world building in a “ok here are the rules and here’s all crazy stuff and we’re gonna give you big info lore dumps don’t all tied together and makes sense in a nice package” It’s earth in the extreme future where the sun is dying and society is decaying and all the technology and history and wonderful things are of the past and unknown now as the world stumbles to its end (maybe!) There’s plenty of information about why things are happening and what’s going on, but I guess I’m saying it’s not like Tolkien world building where he builds a detailed history
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May 29, 2024 04:40
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To be fair there are multiple large info dumps that explain the how and why of Urth, they just tend to be in the form of twisted tales, dreams, and at best misunderstood artifacts.
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May 29, 2024 05:11
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I read the short story "Walking Sticks" last night and about 20 minutes after midnight, as I was half way through and reading it, someone rang my doorbell unexpectedly.
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May 29, 2024 05:14
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I’m about 100 pages into shadow and claw. I was initially interested in reading BotNS with the idea it had the deep world building of a far future setting that something like The Dying Earth lacks. But while there’s been some interesting hints of what Urth is (the trip to the library, the description of the windows and strange lights in the highest level of the tower, the geographic/ecological references to South America) I’ve got a feeling all of these clues remain teases without ever congealing into a coherent whole. Is that the case, and all descriptions of the history and setting of the world are just bits and pieces that are cool but never really fit together? wolfe did say in an interview that it took place in south america, but it's very odd then that somehow nessus is west of the mountains
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May 29, 2024 05:27
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DeimosRising posted:wolfe did say in an interview that it took place in south america, but it's very odd then that somehow nessus is west of the mountains Some of the mountains aren't mountains but are decayed megacities and their super structures.
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May 29, 2024 06:15
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DeimosRising posted:wolfe did say in an interview that it took place in south america, but it's very odd then that somehow nessus is west of the mountains Only New Sun spoiler Urth is not our Earth, it's an alternate version in a past (or future) universal cycle, so there are variations in geography and the like. It may also be a universe without Christ but I'm iffy on saying that definitively. Also Severian seems to have trouble with directions iirc so maybe he literally just mixed up east and west lol. Whole solar cycle spoiler Long and Short Sun possibly also take place in a different cycle than the narrative of New Sun, which explains the inconsistencies with Severian showing up in Short Sun. You can also attribute that to Horn and Severian writing their own inconsistent fictions though. Universal cycles and unreliable narration sure do offer ironclad excuses for any inconsistency.
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May 29, 2024 12:19
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my bony fealty posted:Only New Sun spoiler You don't have to worry about spoilers, I've read everything more than once. But while that's true, if the Andes are west of the Parana that's just functionally not South America at all. It's an odd little detail, and it's common based on that interview quote and some other things to try and just directly equate Gyoll to the Parana, Diuturna to Titicaca, Ouroboros to the Amazon, Ascia is in North America, etc, but if the geography is so radically different that there are long, major rivers that can run west from the Andes, all those simple equivalences are meaningless. I'm inclined to not put that much weight on what Wolfe said in the interview - the books also note that the earth's crust has contracted significantly, and this has caused geologic changes of a kind our earth now has never experienced. The Commonwealth may be on a landmass that contains a lot of what we would call South America, but it's different enough that the comparison misleads more than it informs. Similarly using linguistic clues like the use of "alcalde" and so forth is a mistake because the book is, very explicitly, in translation and an alcalde in the Commonwealth and and alcalde in the Spanish Empire may be about as similar as a lance in each. Atlas Hugged posted:Some of the mountains aren't mountains but are decayed megacities and their super structures. yeah but unless i misremember those are different bits.
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May 29, 2024 15:50
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Yeah it’s supposed to be so far in the earths future that any mountains we know wouldn’t exist as we know them (Even if we assume it’s the same earth)
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May 29, 2024 18:12
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I thought west and east were flipped because of the poles being reversed in the deep future... But then the jungles with the Asciians would be "south" of the Commonwealth rather than north...
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May 29, 2024 18:17
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Levitate posted:Yeah it’s supposed to be so far in the earths future that any mountains we know wouldn’t exist as we know them Also the mountains are all carved into giant statues of dudes.
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May 30, 2024 08:00
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dudes rock, so to speak
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May 31, 2024 10:23
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:dudes rock, so to speak Dude Rocks® - Rocks for Men! [butt rock starts playing]
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May 31, 2024 10:29
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