|
Ledgem posted:Trip repord with astral i got her first mastery done. Didnt much like the summon build. Felt like elements were harder to keep on board as the enemies, imps and earth demons, kept eating them. I know theres some combos with her infusions but eh. It's too bad you bounced off that build, I had a ton of fun with it because it's such a totally different way of tanking, and then once I got the second sword I switched to damage.
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 07:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 10:25 |
|
|
Illusive gently caress Man posted:I also have this problem with my 'haven group. They won't play on normal difficulty unless I trick them into it. They also constantly forget the rules and want to take liberties with the rules they do remember. My solution is to drink two beers so I loosen up and stop caring so much. Not for everyone but it works for me. (I'm mostly responding to you talking about 'tricking them' into playing a fun game, because that really resonates): It's reaaaaal tricky, isn't it. Because, the goal of the game is X but the purpose of the game is to have fun with your friends. Normally with a boardgame you can kinda be like "Nah it doesn't work like that don't do that". But with 'Haven, you're playing so often with the same people, that you kind of lose that 'game owner / rules reader authority' and it just naturally becomes a thing of the people, and you have to just accept that "I don't find this fun so I'm gonna go another way with it" might happen and the rest of them might go along with it, even if you 'know' that that isn't actually something that's good in the long run. I think it was Mark Rosewater (him of Magic the Gathering) that said people are really good at recognising issues with games and really really bad at coming up with fixes. People 'always' gravitate to buffs, and always think that they'd prefer the game if they weren't as restricted. You see it in RTS custom modes, they always give you infinite gold / resources and it's just strictly worse because suddenly the economy aspect of the game just doesn't matter and the only unit worth building is the most expensive one and it reduces the game to who can click fastest, from poker down to snap. People think "Oh, I like the big powerful tank, I want to get that quickly" but, if you get it quickly, it isn't the 'big powerful' one anymore, it's just, 'the one'. It's the basic troop. People assume they like being at the top end of the spectrum, but what they 'actually' like is getting to the top from the bottom. But knowing all that, chatting about boardgames online about 22/7 (2 hours left for playing them) doesn't help that your friends 'think' they know what's fun. You can't be like "Oh you just THINK winning without having to make decisions is fun, but read this David Sirlin blog post and you'll see....". You just have to roll with it. I've found Frosthaven a bit tricky, in that it does feel like more of a gamers game, it makes you sing for your supper. It means the payoffs feel great, and to me it feels like it's a really fun tightrope walk. but the two more casual players sometimes feel frustrated by it. You can't really tell someone "Yeah it took you three turns, but you set up a turn where you just deleted 2 guys 'and' tanked a bunch, you should find that fun!". I've taken to trying to make the rest of the game feel alive, pulling in as many in jokes as I can, and kinda roleplaying it a bit. E.g. getting overexcited for the town phase, so that it becomes a rivalry thing of them hating it and me LOVING it, so they can enjoy booing and heckling me and the other guy as we gleefully go through it (secretly as quickly as I possibly can) etc. Another thing I tried doing was to play with much more of a focus on the other players, asking them what they were going to do (as you do) and playing much more around that, and just generally getting excited about their cool plays instead of focussing on mine. At first it was to try and keep them enthused, like a games workshop employee keeping the energy high for the customers. But actually, as it's gone on, it becomes a really nice way to play, because ultimately you're taking joy from the other people round the table, and focussing on engaging with them instead of the game. (Saying that out loud, like, DUH, of COURSE that's a more fun way to play!) Is that weird of me?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 10:19
|
|
|
Bringing in my Two Figures which I have carefully hand drawn a +Infinity enhancement on each card.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 13:18
|
|
|
Ledgem posted:Oh, this time I did mean moves. There are two strengthens on movement abilities. Was that not a legal enhancement in gloomhaven?  Remember Frosthaven enhancements are different costed. Use those for any GH characters brought in. Has she grabbed the crossover Sun character sheet at least? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HdPYHxf9n0i7lyh09oSEr6UXY6RXNUCy/view?usp=drivesdk (they have masteries, traits, a non-amd perk, and rebalanced perks which only use cards from the original perk deck. Not necessarily all of them - looking at you Cragheart - but that was how they're designed. They're overall way better and serve as good buffs for poo poo mod decks like Brute and Spellweaver and Triangles. The whole collection is here if you somehow missed it. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t2VZUGusJWDXTNsq_LKv_zSaD9q3A3Bm?usp=sharing ) dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 7, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 14:06
|
|
|
Ledgem posted:So instead ill be playing the trapper and hopefully line up retirement on him with getting whatever kelp is. Kelp is a lot of fun! I've been enjoying it a lot. I actually proposed the Power Potion nerf to my group, as I'm the only person who would really be effective, but they were unanimous that the big Go Off turn was something that I had to build up to and only happens once, so it's fine as is. quote:I was also unfortunately unable to convince my other friend who retired diamond to not play sun. Sun has bless on an attack and two moves with strengthen. I looked at the cards and i kinda understand why it would be broken... Your friend sounds exhausting to deal with. Frosthaven classes don't feel the same at higher levels! My Boneshaper went from struggling to keep skeletons on the field to being an unstoppable wall of bodies, to being an unstoppable ball of bodies (  ). With every class, I've seen them hit a point where things Change for them and they're doing something crazy. You have to put in some work within the scenario to get that payoff, but it happens! Reliably!Her version of "Earned It" is 'playing the character for long enough for numbers to get big', and her version of powerful is pretty much brute strength. Sun isn't an interesting kind of strong, it's just Powerful Numbers. (Eclipse is a little more interesting except that it's so overwhelmingly powerful that that doesn't matter). She just sounds disinterested in actually working within a scenario to reach that potential.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 14:37
|
|
|
"I don't want to just stomp everything but I want to play a character that just stomps everything" Holy moly Also, nobody ever "earns" the right to break a cooperative game over their knee. FH is supposed to be challenging. That's literally baked into the core design And yeah if your friend insists on playing a Sun with a bunch of illegal enhancements then I'd play a different game or stop inviting her if she's ruining it for everyone else The absolute least fun my IRL group had in the 7 years we've been playing Haven games is when one guy played Eclipse. Thankfully he retired it ASAP because while it helped us clear some hard GH content, the rest of us felt like we were barely playing the game because Eclipse was so ridiculously strong. After he retired it nobody ever played it again for that same reason Hopefully your friend eventually figures out that her playing a steamroller character isn't fun for everyone else and chills out. FH is absolutely not a game where "you have to do everything right and be a tryhard" but it's also not a jaunty romp where you can just play any two random cards every turn and slaughter everything Like dwarf said, if you want to feel powerful then lower the difficulty. That's literally what it's there for. Or if the illegally enhanced Sun ends up being too powerful then raise the difficulty until it feels balanced
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 16:19
|
|
|
Yeah you keep saying "we really don't want to steam roll everything while breaking the game over our knees" but literally everything you've described from this person sounds like that's the key thing she enjoyed in Gloomhaven and she really resents Frosthaven for not giving her that same experience.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 16:34
|
|
|
The Lord of Hats posted:Her version of "Earned It" is 'playing the character for long enough for numbers to get big', and her version of powerful is pretty much brute strength. Sun isn't an interesting kind of strong, it's just Powerful Numbers. (Eclipse is a little more interesting except that it's so overwhelmingly powerful that that doesn't matter). She just sounds disinterested in actually working within a scenario to reach that potential. It's a very D&D-ish approach to the game - which I understand, but which it wasn't ever fully intended to be. It's a co-op tactical board game. Those live and die by their challenge. It's not a DM-less D&D replacement. The rpg elements may make it look like the latter, but it's absolutely the former with some narrative and flavor stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 17:12
|
|
|
Many of us find it more fun to develop to a point where you can pull off something really big, not to start off that way. the -havens are constructed to facilitate that. For example, we just played the first of two linked scenarios that will retire two characters (finishing this line is Shackles' retirement and it also ticks Meteor's last requirement, so they'll get the second linked scenario and then retire). I'm Coral L5, Meteor is L8, and Shackles just hit L9. Spoilers for Coral and Shackles follow along with a really minor Challenge spoiler: Mid-scenario, we'd cleared a room and had two directions to go. Shackles opened up one route and I (with Coral) said "I'm going to not help and prep for a really big turn going the other way." The two struggled to hold off the attackers plus some unexpected spawning monsters while I sat and played out six tides to set up for the broken Shuck attack. With items, that gave me six instances of Move 3 Attack 4 Move 3 followed by an additional attack. I wasn't actually able to clear out the entire area in that unexplored direction thanks to multiple enemies with retaliate, but I opened up the remainder of the map, killed four of the six enemies revealed and injured a fifth. Meteor came to help while Shackles struggled to get unblocked (summoned monsters trapped him briefly and his jump boots had already been used). He then got positioned, deliberately stepped into a 6 damage trap leaving him with 1 hp, then used a challenge which forced another character to take 1 hp damage when one got damaged by an attack to set off the L9 "explode on death" card, removing all but one enemy in range and dealing a total of 41 damage achieving the second of his two masteries. Meteor got to do smaller stuff but ended up not doing her big thing because it would have prevented Shackles' big thing. For us, it was more satisfying to pull something off that involved challenge. Maybe, for this other player, this isn't really the right game?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 17:24
|
|
|
I wrapped up my top Astral mastery the other day on the Scenario 60 Uniting the Crown and it felt very satisfying. Scenario spoiler, card spoilers: Obviously once the elements get locked to strong it's no-brainer mode. Getting to the end and just being like, I'm playing this heal infusion. Also it makes me regenerate. Also it makes me strengthen. Also it makes me disarm. Also it makes me push. Also it makes me immobilize. Also I get to attack. Also my attack wounds. Also my attack muddles. Also I get to move after I attack. Also my move goes further and gets jump. Also I can discard this heal infusion so I can do it all again next rest cycle. And now that all that's done, I can finally start talking about my second card this turn! Saint Freak fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 7, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 17:54
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:I wrapped up my top Astral mastery the other day on the Scenario 60 Uniting the Crown and it felt very satisfying. 
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 18:03
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:I wrapped up my top Astral mastery the other day on the Scenario 60 Uniting the Crown and it felt very satisfying. Quick little note about Astral here: the healing and regen infusion can't target yourself. It has to be an ally But yeah that class is really strong and fun
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 19:33
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:I wrapped up my top Astral mastery the other day on the Scenario 60 Uniting the Crown and it felt very satisfying. No, see the really fun part is when you do that turn while holding your fancy sword. So you get to the end of the loop of infusions and go: okay, so now I do all of that a second time. Honestly though, the sword is a bit meh to me. So many of the active effects from infusions are various buffs that don't give any additional benefit from duplication. It's funny, but probably not worth the hand slot overall.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 21:57
|
|
|
It's actually a really powerful solo item simply because you don't need any elements to activate it. Also it's a two hand item not only as a balancing factor but also, look at the picture. That's what they carry
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2024 22:17
|
|
|
Hey all, I made a thing to speed up the outpost phase for those who want to do such a thing. I stole ideas from all over and refined them, and made some of my own. Enjoy. https://docs.google.com/document/d/195bSNZuy2bKj9NG-J-DZDMA6cIXC2FKEML4Fh-N0bqo/edit?usp=drivesdk
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2024 18:28
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:It's actually a really powerful solo item simply because you don't need any elements to activate it. Also it's a two hand item not only as a balancing factor but also, look at the picture. That's what they carry That's a fair point. I've only played it in a party of three or four characters. I suppose I'm also discounting the fact you can trigger it on an off turn when you don't have the elements or card to trigger all the heals and buffs.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2024 19:55
|
|
|
Is Frosthaven's harbor on the north or south side of town?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 01:16
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:Is Frosthaven's harbor on the north or south side of town? Southeast corner Edit: I am really stupid lol Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 01:39
|
|
|
Ok so which way is north here
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 09:26
|
|
|
'Up' on the main map appears to be north (e.g. the intro text for scenario 7 mentions "Frosthaven is visible in the southern distance" (not really a spoiler, just mentions a compass direction) and is located pretty much due Up from Frosthaven), which going by the the position of the harbour/main road/mine on the outpost map would suggest that 'right' is north on that one? So that'd put the harbour in the northeast corner, I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 10:42
|
|
|
My interpretation is the same:
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 13:04
|
|
|
We know frosthaven is north of the capital - while gloomhaven is to the east. I wouldn't be that surprised if the map is slightly skewed so A1 is slightly closer to due north (and thus the harbor). Also please give us deserthaven to the south next! Lots of valrath, and thanks.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 16:32
|
|
|
lol well that's needlessly confusing! Why wouldn't they just make sure to orient the zoomed in map the same way?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 16:34
|
|
|
I suppose the mountains and forests to the ~West and ~South make a nicer backdrop aesthetically than the nothing to the other sides.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 17:18
|
|
|
The frosthaven town map uses magnetic north. And all the compasses in frosthaven point towards... Something. Or you just haven't unlocked the sticker that moves the town of frost haven 5 miles north, to the north side of the bay.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 17:44
|
|
|
Saint Freak posted:I suppose the mountains and forests to the ~West and ~South make a nicer backdrop aesthetically than the nothing to the other sides. Fair I guess but I would assume they could just have added some more scenic stuff to the north side of Frosthaven in order to rectify this. Similarly since the harbor is already on an inlet they could have just moved that to the south if they really wanted it there.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2024 17:50
|
|
|
I have a timing question regarding the Coral class. I know I have to get rid of active Tide cards upon rest but, in regards to a Long Rest, does this happen as soon as Long Rest is declared or not until I actually resolve it at Initiative 99? Basically, do I still get the benefit of the Shield Tide while all the monsters are beating up on me?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 01:36
|
|
|
Free Gratis posted:I have a timing question regarding the Coral class. I know I have to get rid of active Tide cards upon rest but, in regards to a Long Rest, does this happen as soon as Long Rest is declared or not until I actually resolve it at Initiative 99? Basically, do I still get the benefit of the Shield Tide while all the monsters are beating up on me? They stay in play until your rest begins at your initiative. This has some other use cases, but you can always discard active cards in play EXCEPT when in the middle of an ability or if the card states otherwise
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 01:47
|
|
|
theblunderbuss posted:'Up' on the main map appears to be north (e.g. the intro text for scenario 7 mentions "Frosthaven is visible in the southern distance" (not really a spoiler, just mentions a compass direction) and is located pretty much due Up from Frosthaven), which going by the the position of the harbour/main road/mine on the outpost map would suggest that 'right' is north on that one? We're not enjoying the attack events at all, but joking about it helps at least.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 02:02
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:We hit an attack event that targeted buildings based on location, and my group had to stop down for ten minutes and argue about it. I did propose an alternative way of quickly resolving attacks in my new Outpost Phase Accelerated thing if you are looking for one.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 02:28
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:We hit an attack event that targeted buildings based on location, and my group had to stop down for ten minutes and argue about it. When this happens I just do my best to pick an order that more or less works and don’t overthink it. The vast majority of outcomes are either nothing happens or spend 2-3 resources. Once the order is set I flip the cards and move on with my life.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 07:19
|
|
|
I just got Buttons and Bugs and I've been playing it a bunch. It's fun (except they overturned scenario 5 so you need good dice luck to get close with some classes), but I've been bothered by the attack modifiers. In Gloomhaven, unless you keep drawing your miss, pulling a negative always has the benefit of tilting the odds in your favor for next time. And the enemy drawing their most annoying actions at least guarantees that you won't see that action again next time. In B&B because it's dice instead of cards, you can just roll negatives every time and the enemies can roll their self-heals every time and then you just run out of cards even though the enemies barely threatened you. Obviously this doesn't happen most of the time, but it just happened to me and was super frustrating.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 16:04
|
|
|
Yeah buttons and bugs is kinda middling for me. Feels too random.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2024 22:26
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:And the enemy drawing their most annoying actions at least guarantees that you won't see that action again next time. One of my only issues with the fundamental combat mechanics of the game is that most of the time this isn’t true. A lot of the enemy-defining “oh poo poo” actions have reshuffle attached, which means the variance of enemy per-turn impact remains high despite the monster ability deck mechanic. If they wanted to stay away from situations where you could predict enemy actions in the latter half/third of the monster deck, without increasing variance greatly, the reshuffle should have been attached to abilities with roughly median power, not maximum power (or minimum, which never seems to be the case anyway)
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2024 01:54
|
|
|
Kalli posted:They stay in play until your rest begins at your initiative. Thank you. I'm playing solo with 2 characters, and retired both of my starters close together and went with Trap/Coral. I was having a real tough time at first between the learning curve and some damage output issues. Things took a real turn once they got a couple levels and I got the Coral Tide with Retaliate on it.. Scenario 16 in particular was SUPER FUN with this class combo. My trapper built a maze and funneled all the bad guys to my Crab who didn't move once from his starting position and everything just beat themselves to death on his retaliate. Trapper was able to execute a couple kill shots with combo traps as well. Scenario 26 continued the fun, and I set up a tower defense-esque line with Traps. Free Gratis fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 12, 2024 20:34
|
|
|
Coral and Trap is a very fun combo
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2024 03:08
|
|
|
Scenario 49 and first time playing trap trip report holy poo poo uh... this was a bad introduction. I have never felt more useless in a scenario. No space, only ranged enemies that dont move and tonnes of rocks needed to blow up. I did gently caress all and we ended up losing before getting out of the first room after 3 hours, too late in the afternoon to retry. Our team is drill, trap, drifter, and sun and its all melee, zero aoe. Idk what the heck to do on this one with this team. We got eaten alive. Didnt help that our challenge had extra enemies. Like, i was getting a little excited to try trap but like, without the control element im a low card low hp guy who can spend 2-3 tyrns of setup to do what everyone else can do in 1. It feels bad. Like this is why trap is widely considered the worst by the majority from polls ive seen and stuff i think. If i were meteor still then that room? Singlehandedly taken care of. My friend playing sun said all of you guys were liars cause she didnt feel broken at all. Turns out she took almost entirely support cards cause she wanted to play healer tank. It didnt keep us alive very long heh. I think if her card choices were different shed have been stronger though. But yeah uh... trap was so bad i kinda... dont wanna play it again lol. I probably will give it another chance but im glad its goal is completable in 6 scenarios so i wont have to play it very much to retire. Assuming we can win scenario 49 with me being dead weight that tosses the ocasional attack 3 or once every 2 turns attack 8. Man... what a downer. Next week is cancelled too due a wedding.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2024 22:33
|
|
|
What level is your Trap and which cards did you pick at level up? Several of us can give advice Secondly, some scenarios just suck for certain classes. Boneshaper is awful in scenarios with poison immunity enemies and retaliate. That's just how it is. You'll have to try it for a few scenarios Third, this is your first time playing a new class. It's going to take time to figure stuff out. Be patient Fourth, as has been said before, Trap literally trivializes certain scenarios and is the best class to bring in a boss fight. Obviously this wasn't one of them and that's fine but don't give up on it yet I'll look at scenario 49 when I have time and see if I can offer any tips
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2024 22:46
|
|
|
Still scratching my head on how its good at boss fights. Ive been puzzling over the cards and i cant get more than like, a 12 damage hit after 3 turns of setup... which is kinda just on par with attack 4 every turn with a lil bit of control in the interim Im level 4 and i just respec whenever cause i never know what build im going to end up liking so card choice doesnt matter. Also boneshaper is great at retaliate! They have a card that negates it =p ours did amazing against them.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2024 23:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 10:25 |
|
|
I just looked up scenario 49 and yeah that one sucks. I just barely beat that one and I'm pretty sure I played at -1 difficulty after looking at the special rules and scenario effects. Don't feel bad about losing that one, especially if you're just starting a new class And yeah that one is rough for Trap especially. But there are definitely things you can do I don't have time to do a big writeup but my overall suggestion would be to bring support cards and healing traps. Ask your Sun to go hog wild with attacking and let your Trap run support. At least for this scenario
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2024 23:27
|
|