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We played scenario 71 yesterday and just got wrecked twice. We were Trap, Meteor, and Drill. It was the first scenario for both Meteor and Drill so we didn't really know the characters, didn't have great items, Drill has little movement and no range, Meteor didn't bring any cards that generate hazardous terrain lol We're going to come back when we understand the classes more. The jump two rooms ahead scenario mechanic makes it tough since you can't bring your traps and lava with you.
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May 13, 2024 23:28
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Ledgem posted:Scenario 49 and first time playing trap trip report It is genuinely impressive you found maybe the worst scenario to introduce Trap lol: (scenario 49 spoilers for those who missed the context) 1. ranged enemies that never move and most of which have their back to the wall making them resistant to pushes 2. objects to destroy that likewise don't move and might be immune to negative conditions including push and pull 3. a divided (and cramped) start which limits potential use of healing traps Still there's stuff you can do, it's definitely well above "nothing": 1. as EA said, bring lots of healing and support traps; if the Sun or Drifter was fulfilling that role, have them switch to a more attack focus (this is assuming your group is amenable to switching up their own cards for a team strategy, and previous posts about the Sun player indicate this is not the case, so this might remain hypothetical) 2. several of your traps can be placed within a range and you have pushes and pulls, create traps to pull the Deep Terrors onto then put traps behind them for you or your allies to push them onto 3. you can create 4 and 5 damage traps to be used with Dismantle and Unavoidable Outcome (or with more time bigger traps but that seems detrimental in a scenario where you want multiple attacks) Now yes, a bunch of those options require setup, and I know you are going to say it feels bad to spend 2 turns doing what the Sunkeeper does in 1! But like EA said some scenarios are bad for some classes and this one is bad for Trap, the bar here is "not being useless" and you won't be, you will just be less potent than an already over-tuned GH class with illegal enhancements. Also! You are allowed to look at Challenges at the beginning of a scenario like with Battle Goals so you can evaluate what you might want based on scenario and class match-up. For goodness sake do not look at a room that is extra challenging for a new class and opt to add more enemies to it! The strength of Trap lies in: their ability to control the map, their ability to apply direct damage through traps, as well as their healing and support traps which can be placed during down time and used later in more strategic situations (one big example: if your ally walks through a strengthen trap they get the benefits for two turns). Trap is very effective in 90% of scenarios, in 25% of those they are amazingly so, but yeah in 10% of scenarios they are only going to be "okay" at best with some work. You happened to find a scenario in maybe the 1-2% range of Trap ineffectiveness, made it harder then attempted it with zero experience, that sucks but is also a tiny bit funny
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May 14, 2024 00:01
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Ledgem posted:Still scratching my head on how its good at boss fights. Ive been puzzling over the cards and i cant get more than like, a 12 damage hit after 3 turns of setup... which is kinda just on par with attack 4 every turn with a lil bit of control in the interim Also ust for fun, here's what I came up with given the parameters of: - level 4 - whatever level up cards since you respec - 3 setup turns Start of scenario: use the bottom perk to place a 2 dmg trap First turn: Boar Catcher top (4 dmg trap) and whatever trap placing bottom (lets say Electrified Net bottom) Second turn: Improvised Improvement top to turn the minor trap into a 5 dmg Wound trap, bottom of Exploding Decoy to place a 2 dmg trap Third turn: Dangerous Ground top for two 3 dmg traps, bottom of Extra Teeth to turn all of these into a *19 damage trap* Fourth Turn: throw it or move it to pull the boss into I am admittedly not a Trap expert so i am sure others can come up with better
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May 14, 2024 00:25
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Ledgem posted:Still scratching my head on how its good at boss fights. Ive been puzzling over the cards and i cant get more than like, a 12 damage hit after 3 turns of setup... which is kinda just on par with attack 4 every turn with a lil bit of control in the interim Extra Teeth and Dismantle - your low level trap combining cards - are how you turn your AI control into spirit bombs. At 5, the Proficient Hunter persistent pushes it to the next level; replacing a trap is destroying and creating. Yes, you absolutely can afford a turn 1 persistent on a 9 card class and yes, it's worth it. With your Long Rest perk it's a 3 damage trap. Scenario 49 is just lol there but... Like, you have a team. You have support traps. You have trap throwing. You've got plenty you can do. Trap is a litmus test for player skill, but 49 is definitely not the best scenario for you. Here's a fantastic guide. Hope it helps. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/s/0MDxZLZKw6 Ledgem posted:My friend playing sun said all of you guys were liars cause she didnt feel broken at all. Turns out she took almost entirely support cards cause she wanted to play healer tank. It didnt keep us alive very long heh. I think if her card choices were different shed have been stronger though.
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May 14, 2024 00:54
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Yeah she put them on legal spots. Ill try it again on two weeks with trap. Just man... like im realising now i could throw some attacks early game to try and get those guys off the board pronto. Early on i had an attack 5 trap i split with an item to hit two enemies but i got the crit miss. Felt so bad. I was also focusing on healing to help drill stay alive and get the mastery but with how our sun plays i def need to be on full attack mode. If i do my same setup i think i can get off 2 attack 8s at range 3 with the item to try and ohko two of the terrors. Rough with two curses mixed in too though. Maybe i can convince sun to hand off strengthen =p
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May 14, 2024 01:29
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Ledgem posted:Yeah she put them on legal spots. I feel like spyglass or the similar items/potions are core on this class. Re: boss killing on trap the bottom of the lv 6 card combined with path of pain is where it becomes truly absurd. You can deal 40+ damage per rest cycle given a large enough room.
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May 14, 2024 03:52
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mightygerm posted:I feel like spyglass or the similar items/potions are core on this class. Yep, this. Level 5 gets a card that is now your core and you bring it every scenario. Level 6 accelerates the curve and just lmao at levels 7+ Having a 9 card hand literally does not matter, especially if you get a stamina potion
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May 14, 2024 04:48
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Continuing with Trap talk, in my solo campaign I just got done with scenario 15 and I was initially scared shitless at having to split my two characters (other being Coral) from each other, but then realized it was probably going to be ok, and BOY WAS IT. It would've been an absolute cake walk if I didn't decide to go for the chest at the end of the map. My traps frustrated the Chaos Demon's pathing, and then after I got the chest, I slight doubled back, combined a bunch of traps into a 19 damage bomb and flung it in it's face to one shot it. Coral was absolutely fine parked in the entrance handling any spawns. It honestly felt way too easy.
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May 14, 2024 05:08
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Elephant Ambush posted:Level 6 accelerates the curve and just lmao at levels 7+ Hard agree with this, Trap's effectiveness shoots through the stratosphere at level 7. Why yes, I would like to throw a 2-target attack 10+ stun every rest cycle, tyvm
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May 14, 2024 07:38
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dwarf74 posted:Hey all, I made a thing to speed up the outpost phase for those who want to do such a thing. I stole ideas from all over and refined them, and made some of my own. Enjoy. Ok you're awesomeyet again. Put this to the group today and will see what difference it makes for us!
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May 14, 2024 19:36
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Apologies if I missed it mentioned but the Crimson Scales devs just went live with a Kickstarter for an Isaac approved (he's got a blurb on their page) similar but non-Gloomhaven game called Rove. Miniatures or standees, map book, monster book, double sided ability cards. Looks like there's locked and hidden classes as well as secret upgrades to the starter classes. Lots of dice as well to shake things up. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/addaxgames/rove As for Crimson Scales the fan made GH expansion, they confirmed they aren't going to do any more printings but have some copies remaining they will do giveaways for in the mailing list over the summer. I've got a mostly untouched copy that unfortunately arrived at the same time as Frosthaven. We played a few of the CS missions on tabletop sim (its free their per their mailing list) but got burned out playing too much 'haven. I hope to get back to it someday, it seemed pretty good and some of the classes looked really fun.
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May 14, 2024 19:53
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That looks cool as heck
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May 14, 2024 21:49
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Ledgem posted:Yeah she put them on legal spots. I had to really constantly remind half my table in gloomhaven that the only HP that matters is the last one, and the rest is just an expendable and renewable resource, because they were so damage averse, and it sounds like your friend might have this problem too from what you're describing.
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May 14, 2024 22:44
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Has anyone run into Trap being too effective at killing bosses? What do you do in scenarios when you one hit bosses who have effects trigger from losing certain health? I'm playing 2p so bosses have lower health, and in scenario 77 + linked scenarios built a trap that took the boss from 100% to 0% in one action. He had an effect trigger at 50% that wasn't important. BUT then in the next scenario I did it again, and he has an effect that makes him immune to damage after taking some damage. I'm all for playing to your strengths to bypass scenario elements for a benefit, but missing half the scenario or something seems like.. not how it's supposed to be designed.
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May 25, 2024 15:26
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Have you tried increasing the difficulty in boss scenarios?
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May 25, 2024 15:32
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Trap one shotting bosses is a feature not a bug. Note that multi phase bosses often can't be nuked down past their thresholds though.
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May 25, 2024 18:25
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Been busy. But i got a trip report. Take two on that scenario with trap. i switched up my build to be more offensive instead of support and was able to kill two of the elite terrors in one attack. Which did use a burn item but still i suppose. We narrowly were able to win, though i think i messed up and did s little more damage one time. But if i hadnt we would have lost. Shrug. This team comp is pribably the worst its ever been though. Trap, drill, drifter, and sun. Two tankier melee dudes who can dish out ok damage but nothing special. And sun. Our Sun player is using a hand with 2 attacks and 9 supports. I feel like shes intentionally doing this to prove you guys wrong. She says "oh wow i filled our decks with blesses we never drew and we barely won so broken!". I told her its cause shes found a build that doesnt take advantage of all of suns strengths but She argues a class isnt broken just because it has 'broken builds' but our drill player backed me up by saying thats dumb, building a character intentionally bad doesnt make it not broken. We also keep having to say eclipse is banned. Alas. As for actual trapper feelings, shes ok? Idk. I was able to set up for a couple kills and combod with drills pull one time. Next time we got a boss so i guess ill see there. Maybe ill take a look at guides again. Im curious how im gonna be a boss killer, i mathed out kinda just being able to set up 15 damage worth of trap per rest cycle at my current level of 4. Which is kinda less that 4 damage per round... idgi. Coral was a boss killer, i dont see how trap is.. At least this map has lurkers so ill hopefully be able to control the map a bit while building the mega trap. A thing that did happen this game though was sun player getting mad that i was 'wasting' my turn cause i set up some traps instead of attacking the terror that was still alive with 4 hp and said i should have attacked it with a base action instead for a chance at a crit or +2. I expected the 3 melee attackers next to it to do that, foolishly. Though whole that little argument was dumb i do find myself lacking ways to actually use my traps... ive got a melee that pushes thats a bit hard to set up cause my traps arent usually _behind_ enemies, unlike meteors stuff. And the one that destroys a trap to deal irs damage. I basically have just 1 good attack per rest cycle.. Also im not gonna lie i think calling trap a litmus test for player skill is kinda a rude way to put it... like, i understand board control and consider myself ok at puzzles but i still dont see how shes gonna be as ridiculous as the trapper fans keep insisting. Shes probably the most widely hated class given what ive read online and to say that shes just a skill issue feels a bit elitist. Idk. Im trying to make the best of this and am trying to solve her puzzle but i do not see what combo of cards im missing to make her anywhere near as effective as people say. She seems 'ok' for a lot of effort, not amazing or anything. Ive looked at future cards people here say are busted and im... not excited for anything past level 6. I guess that 7 attack is ok, lets me do what my item does so its a solid upgrade. But im not hype for levels like with meteor or coral. Ill try to make the best of her for 5 more scenarios since im lined up to retire her pretty fast. See if i cant figure out what the hype is about on a better mission... im also finding that the traps are annoying my party cause unlike meteor they cant step in them. Edit: forgot that the level 6 seems to be the boss killer card. Idk if ill even get to 6 ha. Ledgem fucked around with this message at 11:43 on May 29, 2024 |
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May 29, 2024 11:36
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Yeah I'll be honest with you : from what I've read so far, I wouldn't enjoy the game with that Sun player in my team, no matter which class I picked. I think she's the problem here, not your class or the synergy in your team. That being said, I don't think it's elitist to point out that a character has a high skill floor/ceiling. And yes, I agree with other people who said people who think Trap sucks are mostly weak players. Nothing wrong with that as long as they enjoy themselves. Scenario 49 is plain bad for you, yes. Not much to be said about that. If it's any consolation, I played Trap for about 50 scenarios and 49 is one of the 3 scenarios I felt was bad for my character. I was useful or the MVP in all others, which is a very good ratio for a character people see as gimmicky. Locking your friends out of a part of the map is a real concern and potentially one of the character's weakness, but you can usually easily circumvent this by breaking out of formation and building a no man's land in a part of the room/map no one else is in. A bit tougher in long narrow hallways, but that's why you have strong movement abilities. A simple way of measuring your impact on the game is to ask yourself when you're laying a trap : How many enemies did I block ? = How many enemies did I disarm this turn ? When Boneshaper is spamming skeletons, most people are quite happy to let them take a valuable space in melee because this means they're not getting hit this turn, the skeleton is. It's not any different here. Your explosive turns are few and far between compared to other classes, but your "off turns" offer great support to your team. Both level 8 cards are excellent, level 9 highly depends on the way you play the character, don't underestimate the other level 6-7 cards either. If you want to go heavy on damage, consider grabbing whichever level 5 card you didn't take at first. Eraflure fucked around with this message at 13:10 on May 29, 2024 |
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May 29, 2024 13:01
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Eraflure posted:Yeah I'll be honest with you : from what I've read so far, I wouldn't enjoy the game with that Sun player in my team, no matter which class I picked. I think she's the problem here, not your class or the synergy in your team. As for Trap - it's not just player skill it's also party cooperation, much like a summoning class. Mazing out monsters won't do much if your allies insist on engaging them. And yeah - from what I recall that might be a major issue too? I'd certainly try it out on a scenario that isn't 49.
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May 29, 2024 14:01
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my general experience with trap was one time my party let me set up a like 30 damage spirit bomb while we meandered our way through a scenario that was not hard so they didn't really need any input from me until the end and that was pretty fun I think I only played it for like four or five scenarios because my personal quest was to loot five unique herbs and I got lucky enough to just steamroll through it so I'm not sure if I even got to level 4.
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May 29, 2024 14:40
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dwarf74 posted:As for Trap - it's not just player skill it's also party cooperation, much like a summoning class. Mazing out monsters won't do much if your allies insist on engaging them. We played a fairly aggressive team alongside Trap which just meant that we were constantly whining for heal traps
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May 29, 2024 14:52
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quote:Also im not gonna lie i think calling trap a litmus test for player skill is kinda a rude way to put it... like, i understand board control and consider myself ok at puzzles but i still dont see how shes gonna be as ridiculous as the trapper fans keep insisting. Shes probably the most widely hated class given what ive read online and to say that shes just a skill issue feels a bit elitist. Idk. Im trying to make the best of this and am trying to solve her puzzle but i do not see what combo of cards im missing to make her anywhere near as effective as people say. She seems 'ok' for a lot of effort, not amazing or anything. Ive looked at future cards people here say are busted and im... not excited for anything past level 6. I guess that 7 attack is ok, lets me do what my item does so its a solid upgrade. But im not hype for levels like with meteor or coral. Ill try to make the best of her for 5 more scenarios since im lined up to retire her pretty fast. See if i cant figure out what the hype is about on a better mission... im also finding that the traps are annoying my party cause unlike meteor they cant step in them. Making Trap really sing does require a bit of system mastery that weaker players are less likely to exploit. I'm sorry that you're not having a good time with it but it truly is a potent class that can control the battle field and alpha strike bosses with a frightening degree of efficiency. Just to give you an example play order from my games. (Assuming Level 5) Turn 1: Honeypot (Bottom) + Proficient Hunter (Top) - Make a heal trap. Turn 2: Exploding Decoy (Bottom) + Improvised Improvement (Top) - Use the top action to convert that heal trap into a 7 Damage (Wound) trap and create another 2 damage trap. Turn 3: Path of Pain (Bottom) + Dangerous Ground (Top) = Make a 5 damage and 3 Damage trap. Use Path of Pain bottom to lay out some more traps confuse monster movement. Turn 4: Extra Teeth (Bottom) + Dismantle (Top) = If you've planned out properly you can use Extra Teeth to combine all the traps into a single 19 Damage (Wound) trap and fling it at a boss with Dismantle. Use an item to give it advantage to make it guaranteed to hit (barring some truly unfortunate Curse shenanigans). That's just from a single cycle. With more optimal play you'll be mostly using your traps to alter the battlefield while your party is doing steady damage, which gives you more time to set up some eye popping Dismantle attacks. Some scenarios don't really need that, though, and you'll mainly be using Traps from the control stand point, but you'll still be contributing some vital guaranteed damage. As an ironic aside, I retired my level 6 Trap and took Meteor, which is level 2 thanks to our Prosperity, and I'm really struggling with it. I think it's been a combo of Scenario and lacking some important cards from later levels but I'm really having trouble with, what appears to be, the consensus strongest class in the game. EDIT: Yeah, I should avoid poo poo talking your friend, but Trap is most definitely not the class you should be getting yelled at for not using base attack 2's with. Free Gratis fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 29, 2024 |
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May 29, 2024 15:04
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Aside from what everyone else has said, you really need to be patient with learning a new class. Like everyone said, 49 is one of the very worst scenarios for Trap and your next scenario will be a new and different experience And it sounds like the people in your group have an expectation that you can pick up any class and have it be obviously effective in the first scenario. That's not the case for most classes. Almost every class I've played in my solo campaign has taken me at least 3 or 4 scenarios before a class clicked and felt comfortable. I strongly recommend that you experiment with different cards to see what works for you. And as was said before you may want to bring different cards for different scenarios Just be patient and you'll figure it out, especially after you hit level 5. You'll know exactly which card I'm talking about and it will dramatically increase your damage output As for your Sun player, I appreciate that she's trying to play support so as not to be too strong, they really should just be attacking all the time based on the enhancements you've talked about. Support Sun can be effective at times but on scenario 49 they should just be helping to chainsaw through everything. Healing is fine and blessings are cool but on that scenario it's pretty much go go go Anyway I hope you figure out Trap and have more fun with it. It's definitely one of my surprise favorites. I had no idea what it was truly capable of but it ended up being a good time in most scenarios, and when you finally get to a scenario where you can cheese the whole thing solo it'll be awesome
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May 29, 2024 15:39
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Yeah to be super clear, if you're not having fun with Trap because your party is playing in such a way that it is invalidating its strengths, just switch off. Nobody here is trying to force you to like it, mainly we have just been 1. attempting to give advice on how to get the most out of the class and 2. assuring you that, yeah, it is a very potent class when used well (with the caveat that being "used well" also requires at least a little buy-in from your team) I won't comment on the personality of a person I've never met but to play devil's advocate it seems like she is maybe frustrated by being told she is wrong based on the opinions of a bunch of internet people. I mean I also think she is wrong about a lot that she has been insistent on but ultimately she is your friend and you are the one who presumably will continue to play with her, so I might recommend not repeating all of us saying that she is wrong and bad at the game or whatever
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May 29, 2024 15:42
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My group hated me while I was playing trap. The main issue was that a lot of scenarios are narrow in space so laying traps doesn't just mess monster movement, it messes group movement, which just annoyed them since I'd do little to no damage and block their movement one turn. Then we'd do a boss and on turn 5 I'd hit for like 25+ damage and they'd all cheer before grumbling "too bad it took so much setup!" In short, I love Trap.
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May 29, 2024 15:59
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MacheteZombie posted:My group hated me while I was playing trap. The main issue was that a lot of scenarios are narrow in space so laying traps doesn't just mess monster movement, it messes group movement, which just annoyed them since I'd do little to no damage and block their movement one turn. Then we'd do a boss and on turn 5 I'd hit for like 25+ damage and they'd all cheer before grumbling "too bad it took so much setup!" That's what the support traps are there for. I'd expect the real complaints to come from the summoning classes. One viable option is to play a scenario in casual mode when one or more people start new characters. Gives them a chance to get used to the new class before play "counts." Of course, that assumes you're playing regularly enough to make that an option.
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May 29, 2024 18:33
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Narsham posted:That's what the support traps are there for. I'd expect the real complaints to come from the summoning classes.
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May 29, 2024 22:00
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Yeah you pretty much have to take that perk and that's why I recommend that people don't play Meteor until after they've retired a couple times
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May 29, 2024 23:11
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IcePhoenix posted:my general experience with trap was one time my party let me set up a like 30 damage spirit bomb while we meandered our way through a scenario that was not hard so they didn't really need any input from me until the end and that was pretty fun I started a new 2 player campaign with this personal quest and retired before we had a chance to accrue 15 inspiration.
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May 31, 2024 06:35
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  He was fine, he was in range of the healing banner.
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Jun 3, 2024 04:22
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I love that guy. He rules. In my TTS campaign we found his event pretty early, kept him alive, and then the very next event we ran into him again and I promise you we always shuffle the event decks well. It was just crazy luck. We kept his mini around after that quest was done and we still talk about him once in a while
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Jun 3, 2024 04:29
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We ran into him on the road towards the final pair of missions in the enchanter personal quest. In 2 player, at difficulty level 4. Let alone our likelihood of success, I thought he was gonna die for sure. But like, imagine you're this novice adventurer and blam: chaos demon making you face death right out of the gates is certainly a rite of passage.
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Jun 3, 2024 05:06
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We still haven't met  He's a running gag of sorts for the amDirt podcast. Every single scenario they ask - Was this an Ormi scenario?
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Jun 3, 2024 12:54
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My Red Guard gave Ormi a ride on the Sand Devil. It was all in good spirits; what's a little muddling between friends? (The Red Guard was in Frosthaven that day because I'd broken my brain playing two complexity 5 characters at the same time.)
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Jun 3, 2024 14:41
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I've been playing a Banner Spear and recently got to try out the level 5 card Explosive Epicenter. That movement ability is absolutely wild. I played a scenario where I got it out first turn and triggered it every single turn thereafter. Between allies and myself it probably generated something like 20 movement. Granted, I definitely see there being scenarios where it's not as good, but an enemy at range three isn't generally the most difficult trigger to meet.
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Jun 3, 2024 21:22
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Lemony posted:I've been playing a Banner Spear and recently got to try out the level 5 card Explosive Epicenter. That movement ability is absolutely wild. I played a scenario where I got it out first turn and triggered it every single turn thereafter. Between allies and myself it probably generated something like 20 movement. Granted, I definitely see there being scenarios where it's not as good, but an enemy at range three isn't generally the most difficult trigger to meet. I discounted it until I tried it and.... poo poo. It's awesome.
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Jun 4, 2024 00:56
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Trip report of trap on scenario... I think 59? A penultimate lurker path one.  This was... very different. I did not feel like a boss killer, but uh, I was MVP of the match. We killed the big crab and the boss. That's it. I managed to build a wall of traps to stop the lurkers from reaching us. (failed to get to the chest in time before the boss died though). Genuinely felt like we were gonna lose cause our comp right now suuuuucks. Though this fight did convince our Sun to change up to some more dps and be less of a support build. Drill and Drifter can do damage but like, they're not always swinging the most effectively and everyone chose their targets in weird ways and cards were burned to stave off damage early, nobody was killing the mindsnippers... So I built a wall. It worked, if I understood monster AI properly which I think I do. They always try to go to the path that's open, and if there's only one path open all the way over there, they'll walk over there. I also had some traps set up to do 9+ damage to the boss if someone fell but they managed to beat on the boss enough. Oh also the pokemon card in the picture is cause the boss cards were damaged when we opened the box so our solution was to sleeve them behind some detective pikachus. But yeah, that was certainly a more interesting map to use Trap on! It wasn't a boss killer but if you count the control that's trap singlehandedly stopping 9 elite crabs from doing basically anything. Was a lot more fun than the previous mission.
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Jun 4, 2024 09:16
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dwarf74 posted:It's really impossible to understand how flexible and awesome that card is until you actually try it. It's just so much free repositioning and movement for both you and allies. Can you do it mid-movement? Like, if you have a move 3 could you walk two spaces to meet the conditions, use it, then finish moving the 3rd move (then 4th)?
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Jun 4, 2024 11:22
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!Klams posted:Can you do it mid-movement? Like, if you have a move 3 could you walk two spaces to meet the conditions, use it, then finish moving the 3rd move (then 4th)?
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Jun 4, 2024 13:39
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Ledgem posted:
And yes - in testing we considered this a kind of damage mitigation, like Stun or Disarm. Here, a scenario-warping degree of it. This one, that's definitely your best purpose. Congratulations.
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Jun 4, 2024 13:46
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