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Battle Pigeon posted:My conure used to live outside in -5C and colder. The breeder said they even still loved to take baths in such weather. So yes, birds can live in cold, to an extent (pretty sure he wouldn't handle anywhere near -50C, probably -10 would be pushing it)-but the thing was, he'd been outside since summer, so he was able to get used to it gradually over those months. A bird in an apartment with windows opened and cold breezes coming in like that will suffer and likely die from the temperature changes. I think its the room mate, not the boyfriend :p
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Mar 24, 2013 23:56
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Ooops, sorry, don't have my glasses/contacts about and read the bit about the boyfriend telling to remove or take care of it... yeah. Well, that makes it easier to just outright call the roommate an rear end in a top hat, though now I have less of an idea what you could do except what the boyfriend said, to just try to emotionally remove yourself.
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Mar 25, 2013 00:02
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That won't happen, because a neglected bird is a screaming bird
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Mar 25, 2013 00:11
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Good point. Invest in a good pair of headphones/earplugs.
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Mar 25, 2013 00:15
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 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/24/bc-sandhill-crane-prosthetic-leg.html
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Mar 25, 2013 01:41
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Oh my. I basically had a meltdown over this post, so adorable. Battle Pigeon posted:My conure used to live outside in -5C and colder. The breeder said they even still loved to take baths in such weather. So yes, birds can live in cold, to an extent (pretty sure he wouldn't handle anywhere near -50C, probably -10 would be pushing it)-but the thing was, he'd been outside since summer, so he was able to get used to it gradually over those months. A bird in an apartment with windows opened and cold breezes coming in like that will suffer and likely die from the temperature changes. Parrotlets are not Conures. There's no telling if they have the ability to tolerate that weather. But yeah, there rest of that is likely. electricgoat posted:Thank you for your response, Kenshin. Goddamn, you should just straight up tell your roommate he's a shithead, because there's really not much more to say. He doesn't have the slightest clue about what's involved with owning a bird. Also -50C? That's gotta be somewhere in the Arctic Circle. And yes, keep the windows closed in winter, -50C will kill the poo poo out of a bird in minutes. 30C will be just fine, they're tropical birds so no worries. You'll be fine without a filter unless you have some major source of pollutants near by (oil refinery, etc). Regular household stuff will not affect the bird, aside from cleaners. When you're using chemical cleaners, move the bird to another room and don't move him back until the place has aired out. Fan for cooking not required, unless you're burning Teflon in which case the bird's already dead. (Look back a few pages for Teflon chat.) Also, you don't get a "quiet" bird. Those don't exist. They just don't. I guess there's no much you can do more than you've already done. It's just an angering situation. Or we're all reading it through the eyes of an internet person and don't really have a feel for things, who knows.
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Mar 25, 2013 03:48
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Tadhg Dall posted:adorable conure  ^^^Just keep the windows in the room you're keeping the bird closed, don't put the cage near a window and you should be fine. Man I feel sorry for that parrotlet, plus man, they are not quiet birds at all. My friend has several lovebirds and parrotlets and good grief her house sounds like a mini bird park. Here's to hoping he can learn how to take care of that little guy/gal soon. 
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Mar 25, 2013 03:57
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Eejit posted:Parrotlets are not Conures. There's no telling if they have the ability to tolerate that weather. But yeah, there rest of that is likely. Uh, yeah? I was responsing to SaNChEzZ and his comments about birds in general. But since both conures and parrotlets are South American birds, and other small birds are kept outside in aviaries in such weather, I have no doubt a parrotlet could also handle such temperatures-if acclimatised over a long period, and provided with a heat source and shelter like most aviary birds. Just not quite -50C breeze levels of cold.
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Mar 25, 2013 04:10
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Battle Pigeon posted:Uh, yeah? I was responsing to SaNChEzZ and his comments about birds in general. But since both conures and parrotlets are South American birds, and other small birds are kept outside in aviaries in such weather, I have no doubt a parrotlet could also handle such temperatures-if acclimatised over a long period, and provided with a heat source and shelter like most aviary birds. Just not quite -50C breeze levels of cold. Erm. You also have to remember this bird has more than likely never been in a habitat where it's less than room temp. Just because some birds CAN survive in the cold doesn't mean they WILL. Also, Tori is PRETTY BIG for a conure. The past week Zomo and I went home and my bedroom is a little chilly, we're talking upper 60s low 70s and all three birds were shivery and had cold toes. Maybe it'll survive but I would, like with the non-stick pans, err on the side of caution. electricgoat posted:I told him we're not allowed to have pets here, so if someone hears the bird, he might have a problem. ( If you care about this bird, and you seem like you care substantially more than its potential owner, you tell him that if he gets a bird you'll report him to the landlord. Simple as that. He can get evicted or he can get rid of the idea of a bird. He's dead set on literally everything awful for the bird and it's going to die in a few weeks. It'll either freeze, die from fumes from the kitchen, or he'll shove it in a closet or somewhere dark so that it shuts up and will probably have to leave it there forever to keep it quiet. There is no such thing as a quiet bird. Ugh. This whole conversation makes me want to scream. Please push your roommate into traffic before he gets this bird 
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Mar 25, 2013 04:31
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Amaya posted:Erm. You also have to remember this bird has more than likely never been in a habitat where it's less than room temp. Just because some birds CAN survive in the cold doesn't mean they WILL. Also, Tori is PRETTY BIG for a conure. The past week Zomo and I went home and my bedroom is a little chilly, we're talking upper 60s low 70s and all three birds were shivery and had cold toes. Maybe it'll survive but I would, like with the non-stick pans, err on the side of caution. Again, I was speaking in general, not about this specific parrotlet.
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Mar 25, 2013 04:38
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Battle Pigeon posted:Uh, yeah? I was responsing to SaNChEzZ and his comments about birds in general. But since both conures and parrotlets are South American birds, and other small birds are kept outside in aviaries in such weather, I have no doubt a parrotlet could also handle such temperatures-if acclimatised over a long period, and provided with a heat source and shelter like most aviary birds. Just not quite -50C breeze levels of cold. No, you're right, it's fair. Sorry, I misread. But yeah, -50C is -58F. That will kill a human reasonably quickly unless you have specialized gear, not to mention a tiny little parrotlet.
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Mar 25, 2013 05:15
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Wow, thank you for all the responses, everyone! I have an update: my roommate posted on facebook that he'll be getting a parrotlet in May, and a bunch of people responded, saying he's an idiot and has no idea what he's doing, and shouldn't get a bird, and he's getting a bird for the wrong reasons, etc. (This was good because I wasn't sure if I was just being overly sensitive about the subject, so I feel more confident now that apparently everyone he knows thinks this is a bad idea). Anyways, he posted on facebook that he's done a tonne of research and knows what to expect. I posted on there that he wasn't able to answer my basic questions on bird care, so obviously he isn't ready. He then deleted his entire status update and came into my room to bitch at me and informed me that he "bought a book on parrotlets" so he totally knows what to do. I said to him, "hey, I just wanted to let you know that blood feathers freak me out and I'm going to have nothing to do with them, so you better know how to deal with them." He stared blankly at me, and I said, "Parrotlets have blood feathers, right? I know parrots do, so they probably do, too." He said he had never heard of them, so no, they don't. I told him he should probably look into that. He came back a bit later and said they do have them and he knows how to deal with them now. I pointed out that he seems to be totally unaware of these significant details, so maybe he's not as ready as he thinks he is. He then claimed that the breeder will let him know anything he needs to know. I told him breeders just breed birds; it's not their job to teach people how to take care of birds, and though a good one might, he shouldn't assume they will. He is still unfortunately convinced he's ready for a bird, but at least there are other people trying to talk him out of it. I'm frustrated that I had previously convinced him to wait, and then his stupid parents told him to get a bird right away and even bought him a cage, ugh. SaNChEzZ: Oh god, apparently I have made everyone think I live in some sort of arctic nightmare. I just live in Canada. It's -50 with windchill, not just straight-up -50. It's only -40 before windchill on super poo poo-tacular days. But anyways, it sounds like that's just way too cold for the bird anyways, and it can be -10 outside as early as October and as late as May. We will have to work out another way to keep the bird safe while cooking/cleaning. I think the only answer is to put the bird in my roommate's room while that's happening. If he does not want it in his room, it will go in mine, though mine is closer to the kitchen. I doubt he will be ready to re-arrange his life for this bird. He does like to sleep in. He also has a fan on high in his room while he sleeps to drown out the sounds of the apartments above and beside us. I suspect he will be unable to hear the bird while he's sleeping, so he will continue to sleep in. I asked him what he'll do about bird poop, as he intends to let the bird roam about freely much of the time. He said he'd just train it to poop in its cage. I asked him what he'd do before it was trained and if the bird was not willing to be trained in this way. He said that hadn't occurred to him, so he went and looked it up and said there are apparently bird diapers and he'll use those. He has literally never chopped a veggie, and the only produce he has ever purchased while I've lived here was one bag of baby carrots. I have offered to help him select produce and chop it up, but he said he'll be fine. Speaking of produce, ok, what's up with pesticides? Can the bird only have organic produce? I rinse my (non-organic) produce, then soak it in a mix of vinegar and water, then rinse it again. Would that be enough to keep the bird safe from pesticides? And yes, I and now others have flat-out said he's going to kill the bird. He denies it and becomes angry and defensive. I hope this is because there's a part of him that realizes this is his worst idea ever. Ah, neglected birds get noisy? That's perfect! Hopefully one of our neighbours reports him. Amaya, you suggested that I threaten to report him to the landlords. The problem is that it's his name on the lease, not mine, and he will just kick me out if I say this. I know that's selfish of me, but it's hard to find a place I can afford here that doesn't have tonnes of bedbugs and, uh, murder. I think, though, that I have found a home the bird can go to if he is caught and needs to get rid of the bird. The parents of someone my boyfriend knows take in neglected and abused exotic animals, and I will see if they'd be willing to take in another (I'm crossing my fingers that my roommate gets caught with the bird or gets bored of it before killing it). I'm also going to see if there's any way to anonymously report "obnoxious bird noises" to the landlords so they'll come here and check it out. I know the best situation would be for him to not get a bird at all, but at this point, I'm just working on damage control. The other key point is that we just changed landlords; the old one was totally fine with pets despite them not being allowed according to the lease, but we don't know anything about the new one. She might not care at all that he has a bird. I will be going out on Tuesday to try to find the cheapest cast iron pans in existence. Also cooking-related, my roommate uses Pam when he cooks. Are aerosols ok to use with a bird around? Or will it be fine if we just move the bird to another room? What sort of monthly cost would there generally be for a bird? My roommate said he'll be cancelling his WoW subscription and will instead put that money towards bird food and toys. Is that about what the cost would be? He dismisses my concerns about vet costs, which worries me because although I'll try my best to keep this bird from dying, I cannot afford to pay for any medical treatment it may need. Anyways, the more I read about birds, the more upset I'm getting. I know my roommate probably sounds like a dick, but he's really not. It's just that when he gets really into something, he gets obsessed with it and won't drop it until he suddenly becomes bored of it, and that's what's happening here. He's just so painfully obviously ill-prepared for this, and there's no way I'm going to be ready to care for a bird, partly because I'm at work 10 hours a day, and also because birds are apparently obscenely difficult to care for. I also just don't know anything about them. I'm scared to even hold one because they just look so delicate and I don't want to hurt it. I'll gladly talk to a bird and feed it, but gosh, I'm scared of handling one and playing with one. I hope my roommate at least does that... Anyways, thank you, everyone, for all your responses. I hope that the next update you hear from me is that someone managed to talk him out of this terrible idea.
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Mar 25, 2013 07:01
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electricgoat posted:Ah, neglected birds get noisy? That's perfect! Hopefully one of our neighbours reports him. Amaya, you suggested that I threaten to report him to the landlords. The problem is that it's his name on the lease, not mine, and he will just kick me out if I say this. Wow I just. This is no offense against you but the more I read about this the more sick in the stomach I get. Question though, if you can't report him because his name is on the lease, how does him getting caught with the bird make you any less homeless? Aerosols are bad, always bad They're bad for us too but our lungs are big enough that it's not a big deal. Tiny bird, tiny lungs, lots of respiratory problems. Monthly costs: We have three birds that are a good bit larger than a parrotlet and for them we usually spend $50 on a big bag of food that lasts the month or two, a smaller bag is $25. This is good food, mind you, you shouldn't feed a bird just seeds, you need to feed them pellets. Then we spend about $10 on a small bag of seed mix to add into their food for treat/more nutrients. Then toys run you high because they're $2-10 each and they'll get ripped up a lot. Basically, it runs you close to a hundred dollars a month. By the way, you should also bring up vet visits, even if your roommate won't listen. I took two of my birds for a check up and a poop test to make sure there's no bugs or anything and it cost me $150. That was for a CHECK UP. You have no idea how much other stuff is. Also, your friend isn't skilled enough to clip the bird's wings or nails on his own so he'll be paying another 5-10 or so dollars every other month or so for that. quote:Anyways, the more I read about birds, the more upset I'm getting. I know my roommate probably sounds like a dick, but he's really not. Sorry, but no, your roommate is a huge dick. He's getting a pet that can live to be twenty years old on a whim because he thinks he's into it. The saddest thing is that it isn't even just misguided love like people that decide having a macaw would be SUPER COOL and read until they have encyclopedic knowledge but still think living in a tiny one bedroom apartment would be fine living conditions for the bird. He's just an idiot. He's going to do one of two things; 1) kill this poor bird outright via neglect or ignorance or 2) get bored of it/forced to get rid of it because of noise/get rid of it willingly because of noise or poop or cost. This isn't going to end good, it isn't. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh. This is worse than seeing birds in miserable conditions because right now it hasn't happened yet but it's a train wreck we can't stop
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Mar 25, 2013 07:28
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electricgoat posted:Ah, neglected birds get noisy? That's perfect! Hopefully one of our neighbours reports him. Birds are usually not quiet pets. Ask him what he thinks he's going to feed the bird and how much it costs. If he mentions seed mixes ask him to look up "fatty liver disease" Kenshin fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 07:31
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Don't think that you're in the wrong at all in this either, you're being the responsible party in this shituation  Re: veggies, I simply rinse non organic stuff well under water, vinegar would be overkill honestly. and yes to the above about pellets, an all seed diet is basically eating cheetos forever. And -40 is still pretty drat cold haha. If you end up caring for the bird, feel free to ask is anything. Also, coastwise we spend about $30/mo on food and toys for Ritz. His annual checkup last month was $292 with a simple blood panel as well. Not to mention the upwards of $400 we spent getting exams and medications when he was sneezing a lot and we feared some kind of respiratory infection was there somewhere. Frozen Pizza Party fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 08:06
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Amaya: I think it's literally impossible to get evicted from here, unless you don't pay for many months. You seem to just get warnings. But if he's pissed at me and wants me out, there's not much I can do. The other problem is that even if I complain to the landlord, she might not care. The old landlord allowed people to keep pets, even though it technically wasn't allowed. I suspect that because so many people already have pets, she won't care. Good to know on food costs. That sounds like that's way more than he's expecting. As for vet costs, he is convinced that if he brings in the bird once a year for a checkup, that will be all that's needed. He has not yet decided if he wants the bird's wings clipped. I hate the idea of people owning birds (again, sorry guys, I'm sure you're great bird parents), and I hate the idea of them having their wings clipped, but I'm also concerned that two idiots in a small apartment with a bird flying about freely will be worse than clipping the wings. I am assuming you would advise clipping wings, at least in this case? Also, it didn't occur to me that birds need their nails clipped. I will talk to my roommate about that tomorrow and make sure he's aware this is something that will have to happen often. I will also make sure he has found a vet in the city who can take care of birds. I know this is going to end badly. Trust me, it breaks my heart, and I feel extremely guilty about all this. I am doing my best to try to find alternate arrangements in the hopes he just gets bored of the bird and it can find a new home before he kills it. I'm also terrified I'm going to kill the poor bird because of some small bit of knowledge I didn't have about birds. My childhood dog (the blind and diabetic one) died 4 years ago, and I'm still not over that yet. I am not yet ready for the emotional commitment of a companion animal, and I'm definitely not ready to live with someone who is going to get a pet and kill it out of ignorance. Part of me wants to just find anywhere else to live and stay uninvolved, but I know that because he wants a bird so badly, he will get one, and at least with me here, someone will make sure the bird at least gets food and water. Kenshin: He has told me he will feed the bird seed mix and fruits and vegetables. He thinks this will cost 15$/month. In the morning, I will tell him to look up "fatty liver disease." At this point, I honestly think feeding the bird is the least of our worries. I did read about feeding birds today, so I know about pellets and potential fussiness about certain colours of pellets, and it seems that the bird will eat much of the food I do, with an emphasis on vitamin A and calcium, and that although they love fruit, birds shouldn't eat tonnes of it. Same goes for nuts and seeds. Apparently they can also eat some sprouted stuff, so I might get into doing that for the bird. I might be overconfident, but food is the least of my fears right now. EDIT: Thanks for the response, SaNChEzZ! I think I was typing my post when you replied and so I missed it. It's good if I can feed the bird much of what I eat. I have lots of sweet potato, broccoli, and kale, and am willing to buy other produce the bird will eat if my roommate will not. I will talk to him about pellets instead of seeds. I eat seeds and nuts anyways, so if he buys pellets, I can probably easily provide the fruits and veggies and occasional seed and nut snacks. I do not want to be the one who cares for the bird, but I also don't want it to die, so I appreciate that you guys are great with answers.  I don't know what I can say to get it through his head that vet costs can be absurd. Suggestions? I suspect he's at the point that he doesn't want to listen to anything. electricgoat fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Mar 25, 2013 |
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Mar 25, 2013 08:18
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Kenshin posted:Happy birds are also noisy, just (usually) in different ways.  If he skimps on food costs, show him this picture. Left vial is a bird that has only been fed seed, right is a bird fed with pellets+veges+other things. Boiled vegetables are golden, sometimes I feed my birds snow peas and I enjoy seeing them pluck the tiny little seeds out. Clipping wings is ok for now, because I can confirm when the bird comes home it's going to be a little terrified and loving fly everywhere. People compare it to cutting someone's legs off, but personally I don't agree because it takes maybe a month or so for most of the flight feathers to grow back. Exception is if he's getting the little bird just after it fledged, cause they do need to learn how to land gently and stuff like that if they fall. Oh man, loving nails. Frankly wing clipping is easy as heck, especially with a small bird. Now nail clipping, you know how terrifying it is when you accidentally nick a dog's quick and it bleeds a little? It happens to birds as well, and if you don't have stop powder/corn starch ready, they can literally bleed to death from it. My friend who has kept birds for 10 years or so was freaking the gently caress out when her lovebird's nail did not stop bleeding for half an hour (don't worry, the bird is fine and still being an rear end in a top hat). She has probably cut her bird's nails a hundred or so times and even then she was basically hysterical. Strongly encourage him to bring the bird to the vet for nail clipping first, even if he insists he can handle it. I always make sure I am surrounded by people who are at least experienced bird owners AND at least one of them is carrying stop powder before cutting my birds' nails. Birds are actually quite hardy, but fragile, if that makes sense. Any problems don't hesitate to ask us, even if we don't know the answers we'll help you ask someone more experienced. 
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Mar 25, 2013 09:25
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electricgoat posted:I'm scared to even hold one because they just look so delicate and I don't want to hurt it. I'll gladly talk to a bird and feed it, but gosh, I'm scared of handling one and playing with one. While your roommate being ill prepared is a terrible idea and is a pressing issue, I found this part of your post very  because I had just been doing this: And then he heard the camera noise: 
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Mar 25, 2013 11:00
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Ohtori was helping me this morning as usual, performing important tasks such as stopping the sponge from attacking me by preemptively trying to murder it, attempting to drink all the water in the tap, and throwing the cut up food out of the bowl I'd just put it in. Then he found my mug with teabag, waiting for water, and I guess the bag must have been poisoned or otherwise deadly because he kept pulling it out by the string even when told not to. After a few tries and him still pulling, I made a step towards him-and he gave an almighty tug, pulled the whole thing out, kept hold of the tab on the end of the string, and took off with it. Apparently a conure flying off into the distance carrying a teabag on a string desperately trying not to lose his hard-earned prize is hilarious.
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Mar 25, 2013 15:13
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electricgoat posted:Kenshin: He has told me he will feed the bird seed mix and fruits and vegetables. He thinks this will cost 15$/month. In the morning, I will tell him to look up "fatty liver disease." At this point, I honestly think feeding the bird is the least of our worries. I did read about feeding birds today, so I know about pellets and potential fussiness about certain colours of pellets, and it seems that the bird will eat much of the food I do, with an emphasis on vitamin A and calcium, and that although they love fruit, birds shouldn't eat tonnes of it. Same goes for nuts and seeds. Apparently they can also eat some sprouted stuff, so I might get into doing that for the bird. I might be overconfident, but food is the least of my fears right now. The fact that he's going to feed the bird a seed mix at all goes to show that he has no idea what he's doing. Seeds should be occasional motivational treats only. "Bird seed" mixes aren't for parrots, they're for wild birds who spend that energy all the time outdoors. You've clearly done significantly more research about food than he has.
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Mar 25, 2013 15:33
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Oh god, I'm imagining the slowest hoverfly with that too.
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Mar 25, 2013 15:55
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Battle Pigeon posted:Ohtori was helping me this morning as usual, performing important tasks such as stopping the sponge from attacking me by preemptively trying to murder it, attempting to drink all the water in the tap, and throwing the cut up food out of the bowl I'd just put it in. Then he found my mug with teabag, waiting for water, and I guess the bag must have been poisoned or otherwise deadly because he kept pulling it out by the string even when told not to. After a few tries and him still pulling, I made a step towards him-and he gave an almighty tug, pulled the whole thing out, kept hold of the tab on the end of the string, and took off with it. electricgoat you're approaching this with responsibility and openmindedness, you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. You can feel frustration that your roommate is an idiot (much like everyone else here), but you are not responsible for his decisions, horrible though they may be. Ask your roommate if he'd be able to take care of a toddler in his current situation, because a bird is in just about every respect equivalent to a toddler except instead of growing up after 20 years they stay the same needy and noisy rear end in a top hat. They need constant interaction to keep from going insane or neurotic, they are noisy and needy, they need toys and play, and they throw their food and poop everywhere. This reveals his ignorance in particular: quote:I asked him what he'll do about bird poop, as he intends to let the bird roam about freely much of the time. He said he'd just train it to poop in its cage. I asked him what he'd do before it was trained and if the bird was not willing to be trained in this way. He said that hadn't occurred to him, so he went and looked it up and said there are apparently bird diapers and he'll use those. Now onto more background knowledge: birds have a very delicate respiratory system because they have to process a lot of oxygen to release enough energy for the demands of flight. They also lack a diaphragm like mammals and use their ribs to move air around, with the added benefit that their lungs get two passes to extract oxygen. As a consequence of that, and their small size, they are very susceptible to suspended particles. However, that doesn't mean they're going to keel over if you ever use cooking spray ever again. It's more important that they're not chronically exposed to particulates, like smoke or scented candles or tons of air freshener, rather than things that are used sparely and when the bird is out of the room. And, as Deadly Chlorine said, birds are hardy and yet fragile at the same time. People with a good, trusting relationship with their birds can grab them, flip them, and (extremely gently, because they have no diaphragm and can suffocate) squeeze them and they'll not only be fine, they'll love it. However, sudden rapid changes in temperature, or long-term exposure to a draft, can weaken them to the point they get sick. They can fly into a wall, mirror, or window and kill themselves. We've gone over the foods that can potentially kill them and their susceptibility to air pollution. In the end a lot of it comes down to their small size, hence the "canary in a coal mine" being an indicator for toxic gases. One other thing, birds do not show signs of sickness until they're near death. Signs of weakness make them a target to predators, so they've evolved to hide it until they no longer have the energy to keep up the charade and are near death anyway. Owners that are not in tune with their bird may not notice it acting differently, so when the bird does pass it can appear that it died "all of a sudden" even if there were warning signs for a long time. See Sanchezz and when Ritz had that chronic sneeze. Regarding wing clipping, a bird is a danger to itself unless it has been trained to fly. They can mistake mirrors and windows for clear air and concuss themselves or break their necks; they can land in toilets, sinks, or other bodies of water, get trapped, and drown; they can fall behind furniture and get stuck or suffocate, especially if they get flipped upside down; and myriad other dangers, especially if they're a clumsy flier. The saddest thing that can happen is a bird, overjoyed when its owner/flockmate comes home and opens the door, flies to them but misses, and ends up flying into the great beyond. They don't know how to navigate or get back, only to keep flying or land where they can, and they soon succumb to exposure or predators if they aren't picked up by a stranger. In any case, the chances of recovery are slim. This actually happened to my dad's cockatiel: he opened the door to throw out some bird seed with his bird on his shoulder, and sneezed. She startled and took off, and because she didn't know how to fly back she just kept circling up and up before disappearing over the hill. He got my mom and sister to run around looking for her, and after ten minutes of searching thought she was gone for good when just by luck she heard his voice and called for him. By the time he went to her tree she tried to fly to him, but lost control again and flew even higher. In the end he had to get a 20 foot ladder, have my sister climb to the top, and reach out as far as she could to get the bird to walk to her. She's been clipped ever since For that reason it's generally a better idea to clip a bird's wings. They can still "fly" but it's more of a frantic flap that lets them slow their falls and hover for a short time. It's exhausting and short-term, with the added benefit that some species like budgies get an "attitude adjustment" when they can't just fly away from you. You gotta make sure you cut off enough from both wings that the bird can't glide or hover for long periods, but leave enough that they can still slow their falls. Don't believe anyone that says to clip from one side, it just leaves the bird unbalanced and make it a danger to itself if it startles.
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Mar 25, 2013 16:20
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Til i am probably the worst bird owner 65 deg inside during winter Ehh, out of food.? Heres uh. An egg. Thatll do. .. No clean water? Uhh. Ill get to that. Veggies? Organic? Pfft. Pesticides? Pfft. Attention anf play? Let me uh, do...these..tasks real quick. ...yeah. Vet care? Hmm. Why are my birds not dead yet
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Mar 25, 2013 16:41
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Amaya posted:yarn I have tons of yarn lying around, cottons, acrylics, etc, and the main issue I've had with my birds is that if I'm actually doing something with it. My lovebird loves trying to fight for it and will pull out the yarn from the skein. There is a risk of getting horribly tangled in it, especially legs and feet, but that is with long lengths. Small specks of yarn might get picked up, mouthed, and possibly eaten, but I don't see my birds doing much more than picking it up, carrying it around, and tossing it off things to see it fall to the floor.
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Mar 25, 2013 18:41
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 Off topic, but has anyone else been experiencing reception problems with their new iBird phones?
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Mar 25, 2013 22:05
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Official Bizness posted:
Yes but it wasn't a problem with the head aerial being off-centre but more with being chomped in the drat face  .edit: I'm not cross with her because she is all hormonal at this time of year and it was my own fault for plonking her on my shoulder, also I punted her up the bum for biting me and she was very startled. We're all fine now .
Pookah fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 00:59
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Ok, many thanks again to everyone for the very helpful bird advice! I have discovered a way to teach my roommate some "how to not kill bird" advice without having him just become extremely hostile and defensive. For example, we just had the following exchange: Me: What did you say you're feeding the bird again? Him: Seed mix and some fruits and vegetables. Me: By seed mix, you mean pellets, right? Him: No, you're not supposed to give them pellets. It's not good for them. Me: I think you need to read up on that again. You should be feeding him pellets, vegetables, and some fruits and seeds. Him: That's not what I've heard. Me: Google "fatty liver disease." A diet high in seed will kill your bird slowly over time. Him: Oh, I know that. You're only supposed to give them a bit of seed, and mostly pellets and fruits and vegetables. So basically, I plant an idea in his head, tell him to research it, and he comes back confident, because it was totally his idea and his wisdom in the first place. This works for me because it will result in less dead bird. I have run into a few snags, though, where he does not believe me. I told him we need to set up distraction perches by stuff we don't want the bird landing on. He has told me this isn't a thing that anyone does, and that the bird will always be in its cage, on him, or on a bird playground that he's going to buy. I told him animals have free will, attitudes, and personality, and the bird is going to go wherever it wants. He has told me it will be trained. I explained (much like I did about the poop thing) that there will be a period of time before the bird is trained, and that there is a possibility the bird will be uncooperative. He denies that those are things that could ever happen. I'm thinking I might instead be like, "oh, hey, wouldn't it be cool to put perches all around the apartment so the bird can land in all these crazy places?" because that might go over better with him. Thoughts? One good thing is that he is intending to have the wings clipped. Yes, he will have a vet do this, but no, he has not looked into vets in the city yet. He realizes that our apartment is nothing even close to bird proof. We have electrical cords everywhere and tiny spaces the bird can get trapped in. I'm thinking if he sticks with the wing clipping, I don't need to worry about distraction perches...? He claims he does not need to have the nails clipped because "if you use the right perch, that will wear down the nails." This sounds like stupid made-up lazy bullshit, but I don't know enough about birds or perches to call him out gently on this. Is what he's saying true or based loosely on truth? I have run into another snag. I told my roommate that the bird needs to be moved to his room when we're cooking or cleaning in the kitchen. He initially denied this, but I just flat-out said that I cook weird and smelly things and don't want to risk hurting the bird. He hates the smells of the things I make (so much curry....), so he did accept this. The problem is, though, that I am very small and not at all strong, so he does not want me moving the cage. He told me that I need to warn him in advance if I'll be cooking that night (I usually just cook large batches of food a few nights a week), and if I will be, he'll put the bird in its travel cage in his room for the day (though it is on wheels, we have mostly carpeting and it can't wheel over it and needs to be lifted, which I am not strong enough to do and is even very difficult for him). I told him I didn't think the travel cage would be sufficient space to keep the bird stimulated and comfortable all day, and that he keeps his blinds closed all day, and the bird would probably not be happy in total darkness for so long. He says it's just a few days a week and the bird will be fine. Am I being overly sensitive about bird needs, or is he being a dick? The other problem is that he does not want me touching the bird or associating with it in any way because he wants it to bond with him and not me. I don't want it to bond with me because I won't be living here forever and can't afford to keep a bird. But if he ignores it, I am realizing I will have to (wo)man up, and learn how to play with, train, and handle a bird. I also fully intend to at least talk/sing to the bird (I also play a lot of instruments, so if the bird likes making stupid noises, I will totally be up for a stupid noise jam with it) because I'm not some weird asocial monster who refuses to acknowledge a living being in the apartment. I am just lost here. What do I do? It's for the best if the bird bonds with him, but I don't want it being neglected. This is so messed up and I am being filled with increasing dread every day. I suspect that we will briefly have a bird that is terrified of people and hates its life, and will die after a month. So many thanks to Deadly Chlorine, Wizard of Smart, Kenshin, DarkHorse, and everyone else who has responded. I really appreciate this!!
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Mar 26, 2013 18:51
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The concrete perches are advertised as a perch that will wear down the nails, but I haven't found this to be true. Both my birds have one in their cages, but it's more for texture/variety than anything else, and it's not the highest perch in the cage. That stops them staying on it for too long and hurting their feet. How big is the cage, that you can't move it? How big is the bar spacing? Yes, he is being a dick about keeping the bird in the dark. They need sunlight just like we do. Also waking it up, and leaving it in the dark will mess up it's schedule-a bird that doesn't know when it will be woken up or when it will be put to sleep will be cranky and likely scream about it. Spending time with and even bonding with you would not stop it bonding with him, unless he's an rear end to it. They're (generally) not really one-person animals, they live in flocks after all. Besides... it's not up to him whether it ends up liking him or not, he could be the most amazing person in the world to it and it may still end up hating him! Battle Pigeon fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 19:02
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quote:He claims he does not need to have the nails clipped because "if you use the right perch, that will wear down the nails." This sounds like stupid made-up lazy bullshit, but I don't know enough about birds or perches to call him out gently on this. Is what he's saying true or based loosely on truth? quote:He initially denied this, but I just flat-out said that I cook weird and smelly things and don't want to risk hurting the bird. He hates the smells of the things I make (so much curry....), so he did accept this. The problem is, though, that I am very small and not at all strong, so he does not want me moving the cage. He told me that I need to warn him in advance if I'll be cooking that night (I usually just cook large batches of food a few nights a week), and if I will be, he'll put the bird in its travel cage in his room for the day (though it is on wheels, we have mostly carpeting and it can't wheel over it and needs to be lifted, which I am not strong enough to do and is even very difficult for him). I told him I didn't think the travel cage would be sufficient space to keep the bird stimulated and comfortable all day, and that he keeps his blinds closed all day, and the bird would probably not be happy in total darkness for so long. He says it's just a few days a week and the bird will be fine. Am I being overly sensitive about bird needs, or is he being a dick? If he hates vegan food how likely is it that he's actually going to make any effort at all to feed the bird a healthy diet? quote:The other problem is that he does not want me touching the bird or associating with it in any way because he wants it to bond with him and not me. I don't want it to bond with me because I won't be living here forever and can't afford to keep a bird. But if he ignores it, I am realizing I will have to (wo)man up, and learn how to play with, train, and handle a bird. I also fully intend to at least talk/sing to the bird (I also play a lot of instruments, so if the bird likes making stupid noises, I will totally be up for a stupid noise jam with it) because I'm not some weird asocial monster who refuses to acknowledge a living being in the apartment. I am just lost here. What do I do? It's for the best if the bird bonds with him, but I don't want it being neglected. This is so messed up and I am being filled with increasing dread every day. I suspect that we will briefly have a bird that is terrified of people and hates its life, and will die after a month. Honestly if he is willing to talk to a current bird owner on the phone I can be polite enough to answer all of his questions and ask a few myself. PM me if this is even remotely an option. Kenshin fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 19:08
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Battle Pigeon posted:The concrete perches are advertised as a perch that will wear down the nails, but I haven't found this to be true. Both my birds have one in their cages, but it's more for texture/variety than anything else, and it's not the highest perch in the cage. That stops them staying on it for too long and hurting their feet. Ok, that's good to know about the perch. I think he did say it was concrete, so that must be what he was talking about. I think I'll recommend that he keep an eye out on the bird's nails, and that those perches work better for some birds than others, and that he may still need to get its nails clipped. Since he is planning on taking the bird in to clip its wings, he would probably be willing to take it in to clip the nails, too. I just hope he can afford that, because I can't afford to pitch in for that. The cage and its stand (they are attached) are taller than me, and I'm 5 feet tall. It's also a good bit wider than me because it's got a bit near the bottom that's intended to catch loose seed and such. I have a hard time lifting it and keeping it balanced. He said the bar spacing is 6/8ths of an inch. I will photograph the cage and the spot he'll be keeping it in once he leaves this evening, and I would super love to get some input on if that area will work. I will also measure the bar spacing to see if that's what it is. Ah, so birds need a REGULAR bedtime? Geez, someone had mentioned bedtimes earlier and I didn't catch on that it was supposed to be the same time every day. He gets up any time between 8 AM and 11 AM. Is that too big of a window for the bird? It seems like it would be... Also, I am up before him every day. Will it mess the bird up if I'm up and about and he's still got a cover over his cage because it's still his sleepy time? Like, does my roommate need to start getting up before me (or allow me to have a morning routine with the bird)? He insists birds only bond with one person. I had already mentioned flocks to him, and he said that's just a bird group, and that the birds don't bond with all the birds in the flock. Whatever. I'll just do my best to reduce the bird's misery. Thank you for that great advice, Battle Pigeon! EDIT because Kenshin has given some great tips: Perches: He is getting a bunch of different perches because he knows that birds should stand on different materials and apparently they should also stand on perches of different sizes, so he's at least not *just* giving the poor thing a cement perch. I know curry smells won't hurt the bird (though it's cool to know they could handle eating them, wow!!), but that is what I had to say to convince him to keep the bird away when I'm cleaning and cooking. We have terrible ventilation here and the cage is right by the kitchen. Or should we just leave the bird there anyways? Maybe that's something you could answer better once I get a location picture. I think he intends to feed the bird properly, but he knows literally nothing about nutrition, human or bird. As long as he pays for pellets, I am totally prepared to take care of the bird food-wise. It looks like I have about the same diet as the bird, so even if he doesn't want me being the one giving the bird food, I will chop up produce into appropriate-for-bird-sized pieces and leave them in the fridge for my roommate. If, even with that, he doesn't feed the bird properly, I will just ignore his wishes and feed the bird myself. If he just gives it vats of seed, I will dump it out and find a way to pay for pellets myself. And yes, he is somewhat emotionally underdeveloped. My boyfriend knows a few people who have owned birds, and knows that person whose parents rescue exotic animals, including birds. He says he will speak to the breeder, and that's it. I have told him that the breeder's goal is just to make little baby birdies and sell them, so they may not know what's best. But don't worry, he let me know I'm wrong. Thank you for the offer of a call, though. I suspect he's scared someone who knows about birds will tell him he's an idiot who shouldn't get a bird.
electricgoat fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 19:18
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electricgoat posted:Ah, so birds need a REGULAR bedtime? Geez, someone had mentioned bedtimes earlier and I didn't catch on that it was supposed to be the same time every day. He gets up any time between 8 AM and 11 AM. Is that too big of a window for the bird? It seems like it would be... Also, I am up before him every day. Will it mess the bird up if I'm up and about and he's still got a cover over his cage because it's still his sleepy time? Like, does my roommate need to start getting up before me (or allow me to have a morning routine with the bird)? 1 hour +/- isn't going to hurt it much but that large of a variation is going to cause problems. electricgoat posted:He insists birds only bond with one person. I had already mentioned flocks to him, and he said that's just a bird group, and that the birds don't bond with all the birds in the flock. Whatever. I'll just do my best to reduce the bird's misery. Allowing (or even forcing) a bird to interact with other people is extremely healthy for the bird and the sanity of the people living with the bird. Obviously for a tiny bird like a parrotlet this isn't as big an issue as it is for larger parrots that can become destructive or harmful. His insistence that you not touch the bird is basically him being afraid that the bird will like you more than him, which goes further to show that he is NOT READY for bird ownership. At this point if (as is very likely) the bird decides it doesn't like him, he's never going to bond with it, it will not want to interact with him, and if he refuses to let anyone else handle it, it's going to be very not-fun for everyone in the apartment.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:28
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6/8ths of an inch is roughly 1.8cm, I think? That's too big for a little parrotlet. See, for example, discussion thread here: http://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?t=2949 And yeah, regular bedtimes, they need routines. My cockatiel would probably just die quietly on his perch if I never uncovered him, but the conure will yell if you leave him for too long (half an hour, an hour, as example). However, if he wakes up early, he'll just quietly eat his pellets or climb around and not yell until it's the correct time. They get 12-14 hours of sleep every day to prevent hormonal behaviours. It's possible to move around while they're covered, but they hate it because we can hear you human what the gently caress must be time to get up uncover us now please. There are some birds that bond with one person (Senegals for example have a reputation for this, but it's questionable whether that's actually the case) but it can be a very individual thing. They might bond more with people they see as mates, though. This isn't really a good thing as it can make the bird aggressive towards people who aren't the "mate", it can encourage hormonal behaviours like egg laying in females, etc. As a side note, petting it anywhere other than the head, neck, and feet is sexual to the bird.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:28
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6/8" bar spacing is wayyy too big for a parrotlet. If the bar spacing is too large birds can get their heads stuck and severely injure or kill themselves. Small birds need something closer to 3/8" to 1/2". Pedicure perches do work, but you need to be careful about positioning them because they need to be in a spot that the bird will go to but not spend all day on, like near the food dish. Also, most of the ones at Petco are lovely ones covered in way too coarse sandpaper. I have one for my Senegal Parrot that the breeder recommended (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5059+5771+23094&pcatid=23094) that works well. I made it the high perch but there are two perches that are just slightly below (by less than an inch) it that he spends more time on because one is by the window and gets a lot of sun and the other is in a dark corner so he sleeps and naps on that one. Supposedly it's not as bad for their feet because it's pumice. Another option is to give a bird a perch made from an actual branch (not those wooden dowels) that's got a big enough diameter that they can't fully wrap their feet around it. One of my female cockatiel perches on one of those all day and I've never had to trim her nails. The other three sit on rope perches all day, which is comfortable for them, but not great for keeping their nails a decent length. At any rate you need a good mix of branch perches and rope perches. Branch perches give good exercise because of their irregular shape and rope perches give them something to relax on. And yeah, if it's just one bird by itself you need to spend a lot of time socializing with it and keep a regular schedule so that it's not freaking out and screaming for neglect and so it knows how long you're going to be out for. I know lots of people have said the same thing in this thread but what really annoys me about your roommate is that owning a bird isn't an insurmountable challenge, but your roommate is almost going out of his way to not learn about what to expect. This stuff is so basic that even the chain pet stores have it written on their care sheets. Battle Pigeon posted:There are some birds that bond with one person (Senegals for example have a reputation for this, but it's questionable whether that's actually the case) but it can be a very individual thing. They might bond more with people they see as mates, though. This isn't really a good thing as it can make the bird aggressive towards people who aren't the "mate", it can encourage hormonal behaviours like egg laying in females, etc. As a side note, petting it anywhere other than the head, neck, and feet is sexual to the bird. Nah, this is definitely true for a lot of Senegals. Charlie was really friendly towards everyone until he was about a year old and then decided he hated everyone I knew. He'll take food from strangers and it's gotten back to the point where he'll leave close friends alone but he really wants nothing to do with others outside of that and I always made it a point to let him out when I had friends over. He's a lot calmer around girls though. Shark Sandwich fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 19:51
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Nah, this is definitely true for a lot of Senegals. Charlie was really friendly towards everyone until he was about a year old and then decided he hated everyone I knew. He'll take food from strangers and it's gotten back to the point where he'll leave close friends alone but he really wants nothing to do with others outside of that and I always made it a point to let him out when I had friends over. He's a lot calmer around girls though. I've heard the same about Meyer's, and Red-Bellied parrots. A Senegal or a Meyer's parrot were serious considerations before we settled on a conure, because we didn't want to risk it becoming a one-person bird. I was going to say, maybe it's a Poicephalus thing, but then Jardine's parrots aren't really described that way. I wonder what makes those species more prone to it than others?
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Mar 26, 2013 20:06
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electricgoat posted:I have told him that the breeder's goal is just to make little baby birdies and sell them, so they may not know what's best. Coming from a breeder background, I can confidently say that this is, sadly, mostly true. Though if you find a good breeder they will be very very interested in the set up and not let a bird go to where it will die. especially if they have hand raised the little guys. If I were you I'd try and talk to the breeder and ask them the same questions you're asking us. If the breeder has even a clue, I'd express concern over the future habitat of the little guy in question. Maybe if the breeder turns him down, it'll occur to him he's a giant manbaby and not capable of correctly caring for an intelligent and fragile animal.
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Mar 26, 2013 20:20
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Wizard of Smart posted:Coming from a breeder background, I can confidently say that this is, sadly, mostly true. Though if you find a good breeder they will be very very interested in the set up and not let a bird go to where it will die. especially if they have hand raised the little guys. If I were you I'd try and talk to the breeder and ask them the same questions you're asking us. If the breeder has even a clue, I'd express concern over the future habitat of the little guy in question. Maybe if the breeder turns him down, it'll occur to him he's a giant manbaby and not capable of correctly caring for an intelligent and fragile animal.
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Mar 26, 2013 20:53
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On the flip side, it may just make the roommate more determined to show them who's boss and give money to a less-reputable breeder. I have a feeling you're going to end up owning the bird, electricgoat. Your talk about having birdie jam sessions and feeding it your food made me and is a surefire way for the bird to worm its way into your heart. The bird's preference probably won't be affected unless the roommate is a real poo poo head to it, but you'll probably get attached to the little guy.Proper socialization is a great way to have a well-behaved bird. Birds get clingy for much the same reason people do, because they feel insecure around strangers and anxious about new stimuli (disregarding species prone to it, like Sennies). My sister's conure got planted on every roommate in the house and every "stranger" she trusted that visited, and since then he will go and hang out with anyone that wants. He especially likes my mom for some reason, even though she wants nothing to do with him. About scheduling: many birds will become hormonal if they stay awake for more than 12 hours a day, because that signals to their body that it's SPRINGTIME and TIME TO MAKE BABIES. Having a strict and regulated routine keeps them from becoming assholes, trying to mate with your hand/face, and females laying eggs (which can lead to calcium deficiency or egg-binding). Side note about food: peppers are great for birds and capsaicin doesn't affect them, and I've heard speculation that some species of pepper evolved so their seeds would be spread by birds but not eaten by mammals (whose digestive systems rendered the seeds inert) hence the different responses to that chemical.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:33
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Also re: routine... It's probably going to be the bird getting him into a routine rather than the other way around. Example: like clockwork between 7 and 7:30 AM every day Ritz wakes me up. He gets covered with 2 sheets so it's dark, and we keep the blinds drawn at night. There's no way in hell he can see any light through the sheets and blinds but without fail every morning he bangs a specific toy around to wake me up because it's food time. He doesn't make any vocalizations when he's covered but he lets me know that it's breakfast time. He doesn't really get tired until way late, maybe 9:30 or 10, but we put him to bed at 8 to regulate the day/night cycle. This can be a chore sometimes, but is usually averted by spending a half hour cuddling (biting) before bed time. So yes, as it's been said before the bird will need a strict cycle of day/night or it will get into baby mode and be absolute hell to deal with. Socialization is also very important, unfortunately we haven't socialized Ritz very much because we don't have company over at our place very often, which has led to him lunging at a couple friend's faces, which could have been very bad. He also gets very territorial when other people are around and bites extremely hard if handled. So have friends over, take the bird out, let him meet new people at a young age to that he's exposed to new faces and interactions. I can't speak about this because it's something we haven't done and when we get our new place we will be doing so WAY more often. Clipping the wings would also be advisable in your situation, it's definitely not a bad thing to do if the parameters are right, which in your case they seem to be. Ritz is flighted, but there are times when we wish he wasn't. Generaly birds see things as games, so when it's bed time but he keeps flying around back and forth into the living room because he enjoys us chasing after him trying to get him to go to bed, he thoroughly enjoys it, while to us its annoying. Things to think about I suppose.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:55
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Another random piece of advice-the bird is almost certain to start screaming (yelling, squawking, whatever) when he or you leave the room that it's in. At no point should you go back while it's still yelling-this will just reinforce "if I yell, they will come back". The problem is that it can take anything from minutes to hours for the bird to shut up long enough for you to go back in the room without making this association. From what you've described, I don't know if your roommate will have the patience to wait. There is a difference though between screaming and contact calling-the latter is basically just WHERE ARE YOU/ARE YOU STILL THERE? You can leave the room while calling back, the bird will reply, and so on, and this is okay. It's the screaming that you don't want to reinforce. I don't know what screaming and contact calling sound like for parrotlets though, someone else can probably point you to a video that will let you hear the difference. You'll get a feel for it after a while though anyway. Also, you can teach them when you're going away for a longer period and not to expect you back for a while. We say "bye bye" and close the door to the room they're in, things that don't happen otherwise. Oh, and I'm a bit worried that when the bird gets noisy, the roommate will cover it up or yell at it to shut it up.
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Mar 26, 2013 22:07
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Yes, you may want to look into operant conditioning, or see a life less's thread on dog training (the principles are largely the same). You have to have an intuition about a) what the bird wants and b) what it's doing to get what it wants, and manipulate those so it expresses its needs in a tolerable fashion. You want to build up associations between actions and results, and you want to do it in a positive manner so the bird decides to do it on its own. For the screaming, you have to wait it out until it's reasonably quiet before you return. Yelling at the bird doesn't work, it gets interpreted as OH YAY LOUD NOISES TIME! or HAHA I CAN MAKE THEM DO FUNNY SOUNDS! Coming back will quiet it down, but teach it that yelling = my person comes back. Hitting it or covering it will just make it sullen, fearful, or resentful, which destroys any chance of a trusting relationship and good training. Just about every bad behavior can be traced back to the owner like this, and good animal trainers are more about training the owner than the animal. Be prepared for the bird to be LOUD for no reason, occasionally. Sometimes they just like screaming their heads off, it's fun and rewarding for them, and you have to be prepared to redirect the behavior if you can and tolerate it if you can't. Some owners have also had success by using two different words for different lengths of time they'll be gone, like "Good bye!" versus "be right back" for "I'm leaving for a long time" and "I'll be in the next room", respectively. Birds are smart
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Mar 26, 2013 22:14
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