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Don't just print a thing, make a thing!
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May 15, 2024 03:52
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Javid and armorer hit the hammer right on the thumb with the extruder tension thing, now I feel like I should have thought to have you look at that screw a long time ago. Glad you got it going!
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May 15, 2024 11:35
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drat, gonna come back from lurking just to say well done thread and kid sinister that was a rollercoaster
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May 15, 2024 12:42
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Acid Reflux posted:That's exactly the one. It's an exposed thumbscrew on the 06's and easy to get to, apparently slightly harder to access on yours. This will sound like I'm bagging on kid sinister, I'm absolutely not, I'm genuinely curious. If the tension was wrong and the filament was slipping, wouldn't it not have been feeding 100mm of filament in accurately? I thought that was one of the steps they had verified? kid sinister posted:No I meant I did it exactly the guide way, measuring 120mm from the top of the printer head, extruding 100mm and measuring the difference. Or is it a case where, doing it one time perhaps slowly it would look OK, but then when it actually starts moving a lot of filament more quickly during a print that it starts slipping.
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May 15, 2024 13:37
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This really is the best forums on the internet
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May 15, 2024 13:59
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Rescue Toaster posted:This will sound like I'm bagging on kid sinister, I'm absolutely not, I'm genuinely curious. If the tension was wrong and the filament was slipping, wouldn't it not have been feeding 100mm of filament in accurately? I thought that was one of the steps they had verified?
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May 15, 2024 14:06
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I am going to strangle every big printer upgrade project that includes directions to set up the parts but not how to actually assemble them I am also going to strangle every big printer upgrade project that provides two conflicting sets of directions for different parts in the same page I am going to triple strangle every big printer upgrade project that does the above two things and puts out a v2 of the same thing with the gall to say "you can use the same parts and bill of materials, just get X and Y and Z and these things which are not actually listed on the bill of materials" When I am king, if your documentation is not GameFAQs levels of clarity and detail, you will be executed
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May 15, 2024 15:20
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"I just want to print my strangling tool!"
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May 15, 2024 15:39
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kid sinister posted:Son of a bitch! That loving screw fixed it! The physical relief I felt when seeing this picture cannot be put into words.
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May 15, 2024 16:10
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thats a nice benchy
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May 15, 2024 16:49
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MJP posted:I am going to strangle every big printer upgrade project that includes directions to set up the parts but not how to actually assemble them *laughs in Prusa*
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May 15, 2024 20:30
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Elegoo Neptune 2S I had a jam at the entrance to the bowden tube that wore out the gear teeth that feed the filament. I'll buy the whole assembly if I have to, but I'd prefer to just buy the replacement gear posts (not sure the correct name for them). I've looked on Ebay and the Elegoo site and cannot find them. Does anyone know where I could order them?
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May 16, 2024 14:48
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I'd email elegoo, chances are tell you or just send it to you for free. their customer service is nuts.
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May 16, 2024 18:21
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queeb posted:I'd email elegoo, chances are tell you or just send it to you for free. their customer service is nuts. Thanks, I'll give that a try. My fan runs at 100% speed all the time and I emailed them about that. They told me it was out of warranty and asked for a picture of the main board, but I never followed up on that. As I understand, the fan problem is likely a shorted MOSFET, which should be easy enough to replace, but I'll send them a picture of the board anyway and see what they say.
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May 16, 2024 18:25
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Some Pinko Commie posted:*laughs in Prusa* I remember once I looked over the assembly instructions for a Prusa Mk3. It was so detailed, well-written, obviously quality-checked, and done in a way that someone with minimal technical experience could expect some degree of success. Then I built a Voron 2.4 and found parts that just didn't get used or were skipped over, and was chided when I asked about it in their Discord, that "this is being done for free and is doable by anyone" The same thing is happening now and I'm ready to throttle people. I wanted better VFA performance and someone mentioned that bearing replacement would help. The only real project they pointed to involved a total replacement of structural parts of the printer. Which had the whole "two sets of directions, one of which was incorrect, neither of which mentioned that you would need this pulley or idler (which BTW was not called out at all on the BOM)" situation. Of course, their documentation on how to assemble the parts was excellent, it just did not tell you what to do with those parts and how to get them into the printer. Then they released v2 with no warning, and the "you can use your existing printed parts" except that there's now something about different types of printable parts for different types of probes, which is not mentioned at all in the documentation and was only revealed by asking in their Discord. Blessedly, v2 at least has complete steps on how to disassemble the printer and what to do with the parts and components. And thus what began as "oh yeah your best bet is to just replace the pulleys with 20T ones" is now "the only best way to get what you want is to have a near-complete teardown of your printer which has questionably complete instructions". Of course, none of the printable parts instructions mentioned anything about how to properly orient the parts, and they don't open in a way that looks very stable when you open the step files in your slicer. "Print it with our logo side down," they say, and not all of the parts have logos or have them in a down-facing way that prints a decent part. I want anyone who ever writes documentation for anything other than "use these settings and print it in this orientation" to suffer for two weeks in the IT department of a megacorp where they will not be allowed to leave for the day without having spelled out in excruciating detail how each step should be carried out, with cross references, etc. so they understand why this poo poo is necessary before it goes out to the public. I'm sure a lot of this is "old man yells at cloud" but if a multi-piece printer upgrade requires any documentation beyond GameFAQs level, it should be removed from view and relegated to the ash heap of "requires documentation" history.
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May 16, 2024 19:24
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When I got my Bambu Lab P1S, I just had to take it out of the box, unhook some things and pushed a button and then a tiny boat came out. That is my favored experience. I'm sure maintenance will be interesting for me, but at least they're keeping up with documentation.
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May 16, 2024 19:48
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These people forget (or do not care to remember) what it's like to be looking at something fresh, rather than through the eyes of one who has long grasped the entire project's details and evolving changes with borderline monomania.
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May 16, 2024 19:55
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8-bit Miniboss posted:When I got my Bambu Lab P1S, I just had to take it out of the box, unhook some things and pushed a button and then a tiny boat came out. That is my favored experience. I had the same experience with my Prusa Mini and MK3S+ (I've done my share of cheap printers and kits since 2015 and will gladly pay for assembly now). But when I did do maintenance or replace a part the instructions were so much better on Prusa's website than anything prior (other vendors expect you to be a certified machinist with experience working on these machines). I'm getting a Bambu when next I can afford the best one, but Prusa's definitely earned their rep, too.
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May 16, 2024 20:25
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The Eyes Have It posted:These people forget (or do not care to remember) what it's like to be looking at something fresh, rather than through the eyes of one who has long grasped the entire project's details and evolving changes with borderline monomania. I've done OK in my career by adopting this as the "80 year old grandma rule". If your 80 year old grandma, who maybe at most uses Facebook and Gmail, cannot follow the steps in a document, it is not a good document. FWIW the Creality K1 has been a fine experience once the factory extruder and hotend got replaced under warranty - after the Voron hell (and before that, Tronxy X5SA and Ender 3 v2 hell) exposed me to a LOT of learning and how-to-investigate-3D-printer-technical-issues stuff, the K1 was a cakewalk by comparison. It has been extremely reliable, and the project I'm working on has been to improve the prettiness factor of stuff rather than just getting it to work. Hell, it does way better with ABS than it does PLA, which is very surprising to me. But JFC, I expect better from someone named Bootycall Jones. Whose logo is a really, really R-rated peach. And is on all the parts. I guess the Venn diagram of sexhavers and 3D printer upgrade designers is a very narrow overlap.
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May 16, 2024 21:38
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MJP posted:I've done OK in my career by adopting this as the "80 year old grandma rule". If your 80 year old grandma, who maybe at most uses Facebook and Gmail, cannot follow the steps in a document, it is not a good document.
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May 16, 2024 21:43
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queeb posted:I'd email elegoo, chances are tell you or just send it to you for free. their customer service is nuts. Yeah I can confirm this is true. I emailed them a report of a dead used printer I was troubleshooting (with a third party psu) and even with all of those caveats they sent me a detailed list of troubleshooting steps to try.
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May 16, 2024 22:17
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I can relate to the Voron hell. Bought an LDO V0.2 kit, supposedly one of the ‘best’ of the available kits. Voron documentation for the build is … okay, but zero labelling of parts. Then trying to deal with the LDO specific parts of it, including ‘this documentation hasn’t been written yet’ and trying to work out which of the printed parts from which set I need at any given time. It’s taken me over a month, and I consider myself pretty good at this sort of thing. I’ve now mostly got it working, but it’s got a weird calibration issue on only one corner of the calibration cube, I have no idea what’s wrong with it, and lost all motivation to even think about trying to join the discords and ask about it. Was looking for a small, fast printer for ABS. Wish I’d bought something else.
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May 17, 2024 06:23
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trufflefoo posted:I can relate to the Voron hell. The v0.x in particular is not beginner friendly.
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May 17, 2024 12:01
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We may have reached that corner where Voron is being held up as "the best". Voron is the best for the sort of person who builds a r/c car and gets mad at the engineering, or at least can understand all the decisions made. Voron is best for the sort of person where buying off the shelf furniture feels...just not right. The sort of person where manuals are .. mostly superfluous, but also the sort of person who ~definitely reads them~. Being the sort of person who can look at a pile of parts, and sort out where they go, how they go, and getting parts that "aren't quite right" still goes ok? There's a lot of compromises so Vorons can be built of off the shelf parts. (mostly..) Voron isn't for everyone. That is ok. The lessons of, and philosophy of voron, IS for everyone. You're right, the V0's are the most difficult of the voron builds. All vorons have the software startup as a rather steep part of the build. They will never be like any commercial printer combination. The Eyes Have It posted:These people forget (or do not care to remember) what it's like to be looking at something fresh, rather than through the eyes of one who has long grasped the entire project's details and evolving changes with borderline monomania. The fanboys of voron are their worst enemy. Pushed Thomas Sandlaarar out of the community. Thankfully, the people who run voron, aren't that kind of person. That's why the manuals are as good as they are, and why the releases are done as they are. You end up with the same sort of thing with all of the home built printers. ... Excepting the Rob Mink printers? (Babybelt) The fanboys of RatRig, are ~the worst~.
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May 17, 2024 12:26
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Nerobro posted:Voron isn't for everyone. That is ok. The lessons of, and philosophy of voron, IS for everyone. I disagree but not completely. Someone who is curious about "building a 3D printer" or "having a very good quality 3D printer for way less cost, but the difference is in sweat equity" is well served by the Voron philosophy and lessons, but it has HUGE gaps in teaching and/or executing those lessons. I am an IT professional. I am the home handyperson. I can follow manuals to do or learn pretty much anything. I don't feel comfortable venturing into uncharted territory until I have a rough idea of what to do - maybe I don't know how to loop a yml file but I know how to write a hardcoded one, or maybe I know how to follow a simple circuit diagram but can't translate "run this to a 5v circuit" into how to actually wire something. My Voron 2.4 experience was around 2ish years ago so maybe things have changed, but it was lacking a lot of instructions on how to actually fasten things together in the manual, or how to actually terminate connectors into the main board, etc. There were software instructions that said "you will need to do foo" which assumed I knew where foo lived - is it in printer.cfg? Is it in some subfolder? Is it on my slicer? As of 2021-2022, the Voron lessons and philosophy were very valid but they depended on people coming in knowing a lot of undeclared knowledge somehow. It did not declare "you will need to know how to hammer in nails", which could have led to the equivalent of Scarodactyl's grandma holding the hammer by the claw or its Voron equivalent. If a philosophy is "we make space shuttles using lawn tools" but it doesn't say "you will need to know how to use this lawn tool to do X", it's just a philosophy. That's fine for philosophies, but it's lousy for instruction manuals. Likewise, if a lesson does not actually teach a lesson in some way, but rather shows what the end result of the lesson looks like, it doesn't do any teaching - it's just an example to be held up. I'm not saying that the Voron manual should teach someone how to hold a screwdriver and use it properly, but it needed to clarify its assumptions and put down clear prerequisites. Maybe that would make the journey a bit longer but it would have people walking it in the right shoes.
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May 17, 2024 16:15
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MJP posted:I'm not saying that the Voron manual should teach someone how to hold a screwdriver and use it properly, but it needed to clarify its assumptions and put down clear prerequisites. Maybe that would make the journey a bit longer but it would have people walking it in the right shoes. So you opened issues on the repo for all of these observations with concrete examples and ideas on how to fix it, right?
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May 17, 2024 16:35
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MJP posted:I disagree but not completely. Someone who is curious about "building a 3D printer" or "having a very good quality 3D printer for way less cost, but the difference is in sweat equity" is well served by the Voron philosophy and lessons, but it has HUGE gaps in teaching and/or executing those lessons. Interesting take. The Voron Philosophy and lessons really has.. very little to do with the printers. Or building printers. The choices Voron makes, are all based in testing. Running a voron, is based in testing, and sharing best practices. EG: the andrew ellis tuning guide. Using thick cast beds. PEI instead of glass. Enclosures. Making safe wiring. For a long time, the build manual was at least "in part" look at the cad and figure it out. That felt kinda alienating. I didn't think "load it in fusion 360 and take it apart" was a reasonable ask. They didn't either. I... think... lots of my input on the V0 manual was taken and brought into the manual. Weather or not it was me, most of my critiques were fixed for the V0.1. Manual making is really hard, figuring what level to bring the instructions to, is a devilish endeavor, having written a bunch myself. No, they don't teach you how to use lawn tools. Or in this case, I had to spend a good amount of time learning how to crimp. Building a voron printer isn't the lesson, it's a challenge. The vorons are an example of the lessons. You can apply those lessons to any printer. It's also the entry fee to .. a club. Much like we have the $10 here. I think a lot of people are getting into the idea of "having a voron" without doing the ground work first. Nobody should be surprised by the manual after they ordered parts. If building a voron isn't for you, building an enclosure probally is. Buying and installing a good bed, probally is. Tuning your printer, DEFINITELY is. If you wanna have your mind spin, check this out: https://github.com/RobMink/Babybelt Or.. even the manuals ("manuals") for the rook, or the 100. Nerobro fucked around with this message at 16:54 on May 17, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 16:51
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Does anyone know where to find online those tiny clippers they include with the 3D printer that fit in the printer drawer? I seem to have misplaced mine and full size ones are a little too big.
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May 17, 2024 17:21
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kid sinister posted:Does anyone know where to find online those tiny clippers they include with the 3D printer that fit in the printer drawer? I seem to have misplaced mine and full size ones are a little too big. Stunningly, they're the cheapest piles of poo you can find. https://www.amazon.com/Cutters-KAIH...T1zcF9hdGY&th=1 Gotta buy 10, but you get them for $1.90 each.
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May 17, 2024 17:30
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Nerobro posted:
Hell, even a much more mature project like the K3's manual is "use the cad". Because these open source projects do manuals and people can only complain about them without providing constructive feedback.
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May 17, 2024 18:16
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Nerobro posted:The Voron Philosophy Everything you have described sounds absolutely loving horrible.
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May 17, 2024 18:25
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"The thing I like isn't alienating, you just haven't put in the work yet to fix it to your standards" is quite the take.
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May 17, 2024 18:31
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So...anyone want to buy a barely used Saturn 3 ultra? That 4 Ultra looks too cool and with the code Elegoo gave me, I couldn't say no. Additionally: has anyone ever explored curing their resin parts in water? I saw it in a video randomly and now i'm on a rabbit hole researching it. Apparently the water diffuses the UV light and gives you a more even cure? Sounds like voodoo, but there's an element of 'that makes sense' in there. Deviant fucked around with this message at 18:51 on May 17, 2024 |
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May 17, 2024 18:42
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Nerobro posted:Stunningly, they're the cheapest piles of poo you can find. https://www.amazon.com/Cutters-KAIH...T1zcF9hdGY&th=1 Gotta buy 10, but you get them for $1.90 each. Found some. 3.5 inches https://a.co/d/fJijzVJ
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May 17, 2024 19:09
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Tremors posted:"The thing I like isn't alienating, you just haven't put in the work yet to fix it to your standards" is quite the take. If that's how you choose to interpret my argument so be it. My recommendation is to give up on open source 3d printers if you're expecting a concierge solution. The different projects do what they can and the work is done by hobbyists and volunteers so if you want to make it better it's a community effort. E to add: people are confusing the 3d printing hobby with the 3d printer hobby ITT.
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May 17, 2024 19:39
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Everyone's entitled to their own hobbies, of course, but I have no interest in fixing and hacking and upgrading 3D printers anymore. I did that for over ten years, starting in early reprap/makerbot/printrbot days, and I am just totally loving done with that. A 3D printer is a tool like a Dremel or a soldering iron that I use to support the projects and hobbies I actually enjoy, and I want my tools to just work.
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May 17, 2024 20:00
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Sagebrush posted:A 3D printer is a tool like a Dremel or a soldering iron that I use to support the projects and hobbies I actually enjoy, and I want my tools to just work.
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May 17, 2024 20:07
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Deviant posted:Additionally: has anyone ever explored curing their resin parts in water? I saw it in a video randomly and now i'm on a rabbit hole researching it. Apparently the water diffuses the UV light and gives you a more even cure? Sounds like voodoo, but there's an element of 'that makes sense' in there. I dunno about the UV diffusion, but water is supposed to lower the amount of oxygen interacting with the resin before it's completely cured. I've seen people talk about it (especially as oxygen can inhibit other UV-photocuring resins and make them tacky), but never really seen any tests or anything conclusive about it. I guess one upside is that you could chuck prints into the water while still wet with IPA, without having the dissolved resin cure as a powder on the surface, since it would diffuse out into the water. If you ever do an A/B test I'd love to hear the result. (Just y'know, probably best not to do it with a water-washable one.)
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May 17, 2024 20:10
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Scarodactyl posted:But what if a dremel had a philosophy, and assembling one admitted you to a society? Soon you're dragged into soldering iron assembly, and they find you months later, suffering from metal fume fever, trying to somehow turn an RC car turbo into a hot air soldering gun, so you can win the solder 10k chips to a brick contest that Friday.
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May 17, 2024 20:16
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The only exception is that I am considering turning an old mendelmax into a machine that prints chocolate and cheese and other paste-form foods. That seems kinda fun
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May 17, 2024 20:24
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