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Space Fish posted:Better things are possible, but it's up to us to change the world ourselves and not take the path of least resistance that's really propping up a con man at the top. What if I wish to do that but include a line in there about not propping up con men
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Dec 27, 2020 07:46
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The Cameo posted:As for the WW84 thing, I’m guessing it’s because she wishes for Steve Trevor back and he takes the place of some other guy’s body so she’s basically loving someone who doesn’t have the capability to consent. wait so they can magic an island and and invisible jet and a bunch of other poo poo but some dude gets freaky friday'd and his body is taken for a spin? bizarre
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Dec 27, 2020 09:04
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There are some baffling choices in WW 84 for sure
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Dec 27, 2020 09:08
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RBA Starblade posted:What if I wish to do that but include a line in there about not propping up con men I mean you can try, but the dumb wish rock will probably take your first born’s legs in return or whatever.
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Dec 27, 2020 09:18
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The Cameo posted:My favorite dumb fact about that movie is that Disney legitimately thought they’d get #1 that weekend because they had a two-day start on the other big release... Inception. Hmm, Quantum Leap is a pretty problematic show when you think about it
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Dec 27, 2020 13:32
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Hmm, Quantum Leap is a pretty problematic show when you think about it Though the politics of consent and the icky wicky of 'Sam just made out with this person under false pretenses' weren't as concerning at the time
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Dec 27, 2020 15:55
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FilthyImp posted:In that case -- it's literally Sam's body being quantum-switched with someone else but a residual psychic imprint being left over so that it's not like OMG BOB WHO ARE YOU WHAT DID YOU DO WITH-- They did write around it a bit with the Swiss cheese effect. He has some of the memories and emotions of the person he swaps with and half the time doesn't quite know who he even is
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Dec 27, 2020 16:38
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They also show him with a bit of a “middle age gut” in the beginning when he’s looking at himself/the other guy in the mirror. However, when we see him in bed or trying on the different outfits he’s clearly in excellent shape. It just seems lazy that they’d make a point of showing that he’s not in perfect shape but then we see that he really is. Like don’t even bother with that bit unless you’re going to CGI his body or something. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 18:38
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WW84 had very few fight scenes, probably 10 minutes total out of 150 minutes, and they're all pretty poorly made action scenes. Dumb comic book movie stories are standard and this one has some weird choices for sure, but seeing WW mess up some fools would have made it more watchable. And she can literally fly in 1984, but we don't see her fly in BvS or JL, correct?
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Dec 27, 2020 18:38
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Crows Turn Off posted:And she can literally fly in 1984, but we don't see her fly in BvS or JL, correct?
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Dec 27, 2020 18:42
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Knight Boat posted:I mean you can try, but the dumb wish rock will probably take your first born’s legs in return or whatever. Sorry Starblade Jr. you're taking one for the team this time
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Dec 27, 2020 19:45
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sexpig by night posted:really if the MCU wanted to be fun the Endgame post credits scene would be Strange's buddy all 'hey man I checked the eye myself there were like ten routes to beating Thanos' and Strange just shrugging and saying the Tony dies route was easier Strange saved the entire multi-verse and all of space-time that has or ever will exist by choosing the only route where existence's two most dangerous beings, Tony Stark and Thanos, both die.
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Dec 28, 2020 15:03
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That's a fun interpretation and also resolves my own major gripe, that they came within seconds of getting Thanos's glove off him and would have succeeded if Quill didn't freak out about his girlfriend being dead. So all Dr Strange would have had to do is cast a Go To Sleep spell on Quill before Thanos showed up, or if he doesn't have a sleep spell then get Iron Man to hit Quill with some Knockout Gas, and if Iron Man doesn't have any knockout gas then just loving brain Quill with a rock and save the universe
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Dec 28, 2020 15:33
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Glove comes off, suddenly very nice guys convince themselves they could do better with it. "If I had the one ring I'd simply use it to accomplish a few miraculously good acts then dispose of it." Perhaps Strange saw visions of his own corruption, or someone sneaking off with one of the stones for their own ends.
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Dec 28, 2020 15:48
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Endgame does at least establish that unless you're in Thanos or Hulk levels of strength, using the things kills you, and even if it doesn't it leaves you pretty hosed up.
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Dec 28, 2020 15:50
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2house2fly posted:That's a fun interpretation and also resolves my own major gripe, that they came within seconds of getting Thanos's glove off him and would have succeeded if Quill didn't freak out about his girlfriend being dead. So all Dr Strange would have had to do is cast a Go To Sleep spell on Quill before Thanos showed up, or if he doesn't have a sleep spell then get Iron Man to hit Quill with some Knockout Gas, and if Iron Man doesn't have any knockout gas then just loving brain Quill with a rock and save the universe They actually did need Quill to catch Thanos at that point, presumably the solution would have been to stop Quill from attacking Thanos, preferably in a way that doesn't weaken anyone else's hold on Thanos. Space Fish posted:Glove comes off, suddenly very nice guys convince themselves they could do better with it. He saw Tony Stark trying to use the glove to make an armour around the universe and summoning Galactus (or whatever the thing that Galactus dying wakes up).
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Dec 28, 2020 15:51
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Endgame does at least establish that unless you're in Thanos or Hulk levels of strength, using the things kills you, and even if it doesn't it leaves you pretty hosed up. At least in the comics we wouldn’t have to worry about the damage to Hulk given he has probably the best healing factor and his body could recover. Unless the writer had some mystic-cosmic level excuse for it.
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Dec 28, 2020 17:09
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The whole "I've seen every single possible scenario happen" is already cynically engineered to explain away any possible nitpick, which is why it's my goddamn least favorite thing about Endgame. You can always just say "well the reason they had to let Quill gently caress up is because ~*something worse*~ would have happened". Same reason they couldn't just send a space DM to Thor telling him to aim for the head "The reason Robert Downey Jr. needed to break character and take a wiz in an alley during a pivotal scene that couldn't be cut is because otherwise Thanos would win even harder!" It's all just contrived nonsense.
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Dec 28, 2020 17:29
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Guy A. Person posted:The whole "I've seen every single possible scenario happen" is already cynically engineered to explain away any possible nitpick, which is why it's my goddamn least favorite thing about Endgame. You can always just say "well the reason they had to let Quill gently caress up is because ~*something worse*~ would have happened". Same reason they couldn't just send a space DM to Thor telling him to aim for the head Right. It's all just making excuses for why their convoluted plot unfolds the way it does. "Oh it HAD to happen this way you see, yepp, wouldn't have worked otherwise. I know this because i'm psychic!" Then Captain america fucks off to have sex with his sweetheart of a parallel universe that will die the second he leaves, while his alter ego remains a popsicle and his best friend gets tortured and his loves workplace becomes infested with nazis, but that's ok because Cap has deserved his due!
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Dec 28, 2020 17:48
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Guy A. Person posted:The whole "I've seen every single possible scenario happen" is already cynically engineered to explain away any possible nitpick, which is why it's my goddamn least favorite thing about Endgame. You can always just say "well the reason they had to let Quill gently caress up is because ~*something worse*~ would have happened". Same reason they couldn't just send a space DM to Thor telling him to aim for the head Unfortunately Thor's aim sucks in all realities
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Dec 28, 2020 18:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Endgame does at least establish that unless you're in Thanos or Hulk levels of strength, using the things kills you, and even if it doesn't it leaves you pretty hosed up. Tony would have figured out a way to do or remotely or dissipate the energy safely, he had to die
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Dec 28, 2020 19:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Endgame does at least establish that unless you're in Thanos or Hulk levels of strength, using the things kills you, and even if it doesn't it leaves you pretty hosed up. Captain Marvel should've done the snap and not have a scratch on her.
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Dec 28, 2020 19:24
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Space Fish posted:Better things are possible, but it's up to us to change the world ourselves and not take the path of least resistance that's really propping up a con man at the top. “Don’t make deals with an evil genie” is a pretty strange and not especially universal message. I’m also not sure how it relates at all to the interminably long end speech about truth and beauty. The whole movie is just extremely confused, bordering on incomprehensible. That might even be fine or interesting if wasn’t also so boring.
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Dec 28, 2020 19:29
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YOLOsubmarine posted:“Don’t make deals with an evil genie” It's more "be careful what you wish for" which is the basis of literally ancient stories.
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Dec 28, 2020 19:41
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Mr. Apollo posted:Correct. She kind of does in the final fight with Ares in WW where she floats up into the air and hovers there. She also flys over Paris (?) to end the movie
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Dec 28, 2020 20:09
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Necrothatcher posted:It's more "be careful what you wish for" which is the basis of literally ancient stories. Don't those stories usually deal with irony, though? Not that it's ancient, but the movie references The Monkey's Paw, and in that there's some connection there between the wish (I want money) and the downside (it comes through your son dying at work and receiving a payout from his employer). Diana losing her powers because she gets her boyfriend back doesn't seem to have that sort of connection. That's more the wish-granting stone engaging in surprise billing. If the downside was he's back, but she has to live with someone else having sacrificed their life for it that would seem to fit "be careful what you wish for," but that never comes up as an actual concern anyone has.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:36
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Necrothatcher posted:It's more "be careful what you wish for" which is the basis of literally ancient stories. The point of that maxim is that you should be careful what you wish for because you might not actually want it, not to be careful what you wish for because an evil genie might exact a penalty that leads to the end of the world. In the movie Big, Josh wishes he was an adult but learns that he didn’t really fully understand the ramifications of his wish and only saw the good sides of being an adult but didn’t appreciate the joys of being young. He learns this through living out his wish and gaining a deeper understanding of the complex nature of adulthood. In WW84 Barbara wishes she were as poised and confident and strong has her coworker she admires and an evil genie literally steals her kindness, the lesson being that you can’t be sexy and confident and strong without also being a bad person, unless you’re Wonder Woman who is all of those things and also a good person. And Diana wishes she had a departed loved one back which doesn’t even make sense in the “be careful what you wish for” sense because it’s a perfectly harmless and understandable wish that somehow turns horrifying when he does a body snatching except nobody in the movie is even horrified about that and the only ramification is the loss of her powers which she doesn’t care about anyway except that it turns out that she needs them to save the world from things that aren’t the consequence of her wish. And then at the end she tells everyone not to wish for things because the world is beautiful as it is and that the truth is the most important thing there is (what truth?) while we flash back to Lord being beaten as a kid.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:38
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Sir Kodiak posted:Don't those stories usually deal with irony, though? Not that it's ancient, but the movie references The Monkey's Paw, and in that there's some connection there between the wish (I want money) and the downside (it comes through your son dying at work and receiving a payout from his employer). Diana losing her powers because she gets her boyfriend back doesn't seem to have that sort of connection. That's more the wish-granting stone engaging in surprise billing. If the downside was he's back, but she has to live with someone else having sacrificed their life for it that would seem to fit "be careful what you wish for," but that never comes up as an actual concern anyone has. This was perfectly cromulent to me. She's powered by The Truth, and having her boyfriend back is her living a lie. Her powers are weakening because she's lying to herself. I think that's why they made the odd choice of having Steve inhabit another man's body, so being with him would be more of a lie. And she's the only one who saw him like that (by lying to herself about what she was seeing). To everyone else he was some random guy.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:50
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John Wick of Dogs posted:This was perfectly cromulent to me. She's powered by The Truth, and having her boyfriend back is her living a lie. Her powers are weakening because she's lying to herself. I think that's why they made the odd choice of having Steve inhabit another man's body, so being with him would be more of a lie. And she's the only one who saw him like that (by lying to herself about what she was seeing). To everyone else he was some random guy. What's the lie? She believes a person to be her boyfriend's mind in another man's body and that appears to be what's actually going on. Seems like she's seeing the inner truth of him in what's basically a Shallow Hal situation. I'm curious how you come to the conclusion that defining someone by who they are on the inside rather than their surface appearance is "living a lie," because I don't see it.
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Dec 28, 2020 21:10
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When they’re lying in bed together she says something like “We really should find out how a stone brought my boyfriend back.” She doesn’t say anything about “in someone else’s body”
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Dec 28, 2020 21:41
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Guy A. Person posted:The whole "I've seen every single possible scenario happen" is already cynically engineered to explain away any possible nitpick, which is why it's my goddamn least favorite thing about Endgame. You can always just say "well the reason they had to let Quill gently caress up is because ~*something worse*~ would have happened". Same reason they couldn't just send a space DM to Thor telling him to aim for the head Yeah but on the other hand people love to loving nitpick away, and it’s loving dumb. A character not being a paragon of logic and intelligence is not a plot hole. I realise you are half joking with space DM to Thor but people really do get all cinema sins with this poo poo. “Why didn’t quill just not get angry” “why didn’t dr strange just use the time stone at that point” “why didn’t” It doesn’t loving matter it’s a big purple man fighting action figures
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Dec 28, 2020 21:52
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Guy A. Person posted:The whole "I've seen every single possible scenario happen" is already cynically engineered to explain away any possible nitpick, which is why it's my goddamn least favorite thing about Endgame. You can always just say "well the reason they had to let Quill gently caress up is because ~*something worse*~ would have happened". Same reason they couldn't just send a space DM to Thor telling him to aim for the head I think the best reading is that Dr. Strange was actually thinking "this is the easiest-to-achieve scenario I've foreseen in which that piece of poo poo Iron Man actually dies"
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Dec 28, 2020 22:17
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Mr. Apollo posted:When they’re lying in bed together she says something like “We really should find out how a stone brought my boyfriend back.” She doesn’t say anything about “in someone else’s body” The question of how this happened deserves an answer whether or not he's in someone else's body. Failing to mention a detail irrelevant to a comment being made isn't "living a lie."
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Dec 28, 2020 22:19
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I agree they need to find out, I just think that they should have acknowledged the situation. It just seems to be mentioned once and it’s kind of a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ moment.
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Dec 28, 2020 22:29
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Mr. Apollo posted:When they’re lying in bed together she says something like “We really should find out how a stone brought my boyfriend back.” She doesn’t say anything about “in someone else’s body”   
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Dec 28, 2020 22:34
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teacup posted:Yeah but on the other hand people love to loving nitpick away, and it’s loving dumb. A character not being a paragon of logic and intelligence is not a plot hole. I realise you are half joking with space DM to Thor but people really do get all cinema sins with this poo poo. “Why didn’t quill just not get angry” “why didn’t dr strange just use the time stone at that point” “why didn’t” I wholeheartedly agree, it's just that the nitpickers are who(m?) the "it had to be this way because a space wizard said so" logic is directly aimed at, and who ate that explanation up. And not incidentally, it seems to be the same group of people nitpicking other blockbuster movies for being "dumb" and full of "plot-holes". Like, if you're smugly answering someone going "this part seemed dumb" by using the in-movie explanation of "no, see, the movie already explained to you that it had to happen this way  " then you're not really avoiding the nitpicking, you're just engaging at it from a different angleFerrinus posted:I think the best reading is that Dr. Strange was actually thinking "this is the easiest-to-achieve scenario I've foreseen in which that piece of poo poo Iron Man actually dies" Yeah I already fully accept this head-canon into my life
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Dec 28, 2020 22:39
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Really I feel like the Endgame solution should've been "page Carol much earlier". I do like the explanation that Strange knew how dangerous Stark was though, and saw that the timeline needed both to die in order to survive. It begs the question though; if he saw all possible futures, wouldn't he have seen Alt-Loki steal the Tesseract too? Seems like he would know the Multiverse is coming, considering the new shows are leaning into the idea, and he seems to figure heavily into introducing that concept in the upcoming movies too.
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Dec 28, 2020 23:13
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I just finished watching The Boys,great show,lots of shocking moments. I really thought homelander was facefucking stormfronts severed head thank god they didn’t go that far. The Deep and A-train have amazing chemistry,so good.
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Dec 28, 2020 23:14
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Huh, OK, I guess I missed that.
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Dec 28, 2020 23:51
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sticklefifer posted:It begs the question though; if he saw all possible futures, wouldn't he have seen Alt-Loki steal the Tesseract too? That's what is great about his 14 million statement, it means literally any other decisions led to them losing again.  Still can't explain why Carol couldn't use the gauntlet. Maybe she didn't have the necessary emotional connection any more because she's been a god too long, don't know. Crows Turn Off fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 29, 2020 |
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Dec 29, 2020 00:12
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