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khy
Aug 15, 2005

Ytlaya posted:

I think that SIU had probably been getting some negative feedback about the last couple arcs not progressing the main plot much. I think this current arc does a good job of progressing the main plot while still introducing new characters and subplots.

That's fair, and I do agree somewhat that it's time and past time that we start getting clues to Bam's past, why he was locked away, why Rachel was with him all those ages ago, etc etc etc. I'm thoroughly happy that answers are finally starting to trickle in, and I hope that it continues to give us a slightly clearer picture each chapter from here on out.

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Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.
The best part is Baam's history is kind of interesting and there's clearly a lot of mystery still about it, despite generally knowing Baam's origin. It's rare big reveals for mysteries are satisfying but I'm liking it so far.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
What are the chances that whatever has taken over Yuri is related to being a Jahad princess and Jahad being inactive? Seems unlikely its one of the 13 months since they were both out last chapter

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Jose posted:

What are the chances that whatever has taken over Yuri is related to being a Jahad princess and Jahad being inactive? Seems unlikely its one of the 13 months since they were both out last chapter

I thought last chapter was just showing them while they were still "inside" the weapon, and I assumed that they (or one of them I guess) were now taking over Yuri. I can't really think of any other entity who could be responsible for possessing her through the weapons.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Jose posted:

What are the chances that whatever has taken over Yuri is related to being a Jahad princess and Jahad being inactive? Seems unlikely its one of the 13 months since they were both out last chapter

I'm not sure. Yuri does seem to be somewhat possessed but it seems more like the 13th month series are an amalgam of something rather than Zahard himself. Far as we can tell, Zahard is still hanging around and talking to his daughters (Maschenny talking about how Zahard was proud of Yuri for retrieving Green March, for instance), but just isn't active as a ranker doing things in the tower. Same thing with other poo poo Yuri's done.

Though the idea that he's actually trying to create a super being via the princesses and princes to possess because he himself isn't strong enough could be an interesting idea, with the rings and 13 month series being the catalyst for it.

Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Mar 28, 2017

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Two Tone Shoes posted:

I'm not sure. Yuri does seem to be somewhat possessed but it seems more like the 13th month series are an amalgam of something rather than Zahard himself. Far as we can tell, Zahard is still hanging around and talking to his daughters (Maschenny talking about how Zahard was proud of Yuri for retrieving Green March, for instance), but just isn't active as a ranker doing things in the tower. Same thing with other poo poo Yuri's done.

Though the idea that he's actually trying to create a super being via the princesses and princes to possess because he himself isn't strong enough could be an interesting idea, with the rings and 13 month series being the catalyst for it.

I don't see how he could expect any of the Princesses, who are Regulars by definition and subject to those limitations, to ever be stronger than him. While Enne was strong enough to be ranked 7, she was the child between two 10 Families leaders, so that's an exceptional circumstance.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Ytlaya posted:

I don't see how he could expect any of the Princesses, who are Regulars by definition and subject to those limitations, to ever be stronger than him. While Enne was strong enough to be ranked 7, she was the child between two 10 Families leaders, so that's an exceptional circumstance.

some sort of elaborate plan to steal power like how Hoaquin does. Might explain why he made spells taboo

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Ytlaya posted:

I don't see how he could expect any of the Princesses, who are Regulars by definition and subject to those limitations, to ever be stronger than him. While Enne was strong enough to be ranked 7, she was the child between two 10 Families leaders, so that's an exceptional circumstance.

Zahard's entire problem might be his made deals with the Guardians. I imagine the immortality has a drawback (which could get into Bloodmadder's whole deal about not getting it at first but eventually succumbing to fearing for his life and making a worse deal).

khy
Aug 15, 2005

I get somewhat confused about regular vs irregular because I thought irregulars come from outside the tower, so why would Urek Mazino want to get out of the tower to explore the world out there if he was out there and then entered?

Can a resident of the tower become an irregular? What defines an irregular anyway?

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK
A Regular is chosen to be allowed to climb the tower. An Irregular chooses to crash the tower climbing party. Most regulars and irregulars are from within the outer parts of the tower, where all the administrators and tests and stuff don't really appear. Baam is one of the few people to be from totally outside the tower.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

^^^ I'm pretty sure that all of the Family Leaders + Mazino + Enryu + Phantaminum came from outside the Tower. I don't know of any Irregulars who came from inside the Tower.

khy posted:

I get somewhat confused about regular vs irregular because I thought irregulars come from outside the tower, so why would Urek Mazino want to get out of the tower to explore the world out there if he was out there and then entered?

Can a resident of the tower become an irregular? What defines an irregular anyway?

Irregular just means they came from outside the Tower (or maybe as the post above mentions it includes anyone who is able to climb without being chosen as a Regular, though I think all existing examples came from outside the Tower). Mazino entered the Tower but does not know how to leave again (though he wants to). It's sorta like if you wanted to see what was in a room and then noticed you were locked inside the room and wanted to get out again.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 28, 2017

bofa salesman
Nov 6, 2009

Bam's kinda interesting now since as far as we know he's the only irregular that's been inside the tower twice.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Gyges posted:

A Regular is chosen to be allowed to climb the tower. An Irregular chooses to crash the tower climbing party. Most regulars and irregulars are from within the outer parts of the tower, where all the administrators and tests and stuff don't really appear. Baam is one of the few people to be from totally outside the tower.

The first part is definitely right; I don't agree with the latter. It would suggest that Rachel is also from outside the tower, and she's not.

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009


Where did you get that idea? Rachel is definitely from outside the tower.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Irony.or.Death posted:

Where did you get that idea? Rachel is definitely from outside the tower.

She's from outside the inner tower. She's definitely from the tower or her dream would make absolutely no sense.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Sarcophallus posted:

She's from outside the inner tower. She's definitely from the tower or her dream would make absolutely no sense.

Could be some weird cave attached to the Tower or some other reason her movement was restricted despite being outside the Tower. I think it was stated that Arlene brought Baam outside of the Tower where she revived him with the God's help, so unless he somehow made his way back inside the Tower Rachel should have also been outside the Tower to begin with.

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009


Yeah, while I am sympathetic to that objection (and have wondered how Rachel got this idea myself) it only works if you also believe Baam was not actually outside the tower at any point or that he entered and was living in the outer tower before the series began/he opened the gate and met Headon/etc. Since he knew Rachel out there and all.

Unhappy Meal
Jul 27, 2010

Some smiles show mirth
Others merely show teeth

Irony.or.Death posted:

Yeah, while I am sympathetic to that objection (and have wondered how Rachel got this idea myself) it only works if you also believe Baam was not actually outside the tower at any point or that he entered and was living in the outer tower before the series began/he opened the gate and met Headon/etc. Since he knew Rachel out there and all.

Also the fact that only irregulars see Floor 1 where Headon actually resides, and regulars start at floor 2. Thus both Rachel and Baam are irregulars for whatever that may mean.

Cirina
Feb 15, 2013

Operation complete.

Unhappy Meal posted:

Also the fact that only irregulars see Floor 1 where Headon actually resides, and regulars start at floor 2. Thus both Rachel and Baam are irregulars for whatever that may mean.

Rachel seems to be an Irregular mostly through technicality in that she wasn't chosen to enter the Tower, but where every other irregular seems to have been special abilitywise in some manner she seems.. painfully average or below in every aspect.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



As a technical irregular she can bypass Jahad's immortality, so she has a lot of worth for FUG. And she's a skilled manipulator, at least. Though not nearly as skilled as she herself believes.

khy
Aug 15, 2005

Wild speculation :

Jahad princesses are a public group meant to create division between the 10 families by forcing them to compete against one another as a way of Jahad dodging the whole 'marry one of us' situation. What nobody knows is that there's a hidden group called Jahad Princes. Ja Wangnan and Karaka are parts of this group, signified by the rings. While the destiny of the princesses is to fight amongst themselves for power, the Princes climb the tower to gain in power to one day succeed Jahad as the king. What they don't know is that the succession is how Jahad cheats death and became immortal. His soul migrates to the new body and devours the original.

Wangnan doesn't know about it, but somehow Karaka found out and the reason he joined FUG was to rebel against the destiny that his life is meant for Jahad. Wangnan eventually becomes a ranker and becomes powerful enough to succeed Jahad, but his soul's consumed and Bam must fight the king of the tower wearing his friend's face.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Ytlaya posted:

Could be some weird cave attached to the Tower or some other reason her movement was restricted despite being outside the Tower. I think it was stated that Arlene brought Baam outside of the Tower where she revived him with the God's help, so unless he somehow made his way back inside the Tower Rachel should have also been outside the Tower to begin with.

Arlene's story straight up has her saying she has found a way out and, in her grief and rage, she would offer her dead child to the god of the outside. Then that child would return to the tower and do the revengening. Baam, and consequently Rachel, definitely seem to be from outside the Tower if we take Arlene's pocket as the truth. Mazino obviously is, Enryu presumably is given he's a messenger from the god outside, Zahard is because they "found" the tower to go in, and we don't know about Phantaminum but his power makes it a triviality.

Sarcophallus posted:

She's from outside the inner tower. She's definitely from the tower or her dream would make absolutely no sense.



We know that Rachel's ambition is actually tied to Arlene. We also know that her and Baam were in some caves. Rachel's story intentionally doesn't add up. Her actual story, related to Arlene, seems too complicated to actually explain to people who don't understand. She says she wants to get to the top to see the stars, but she actually wants to fulfill Arlene's ambition and be the child of prophecy. Part of that prophecy is "leading everyone in the tower to greater heights" after unlocking the door Zahard sealed -- if you'll remember, the one time they visualized Rachel's ambition it was an abstraction of her, standing on top of the tower -- that's her real goal, seeing the stars is probably just a metaphor for that.

It's why she just smiles when everyone calls her ambition dumb. They don't actually understand what she means and she can't be assed to reveal what she knows to them.

Eopia posted:

Rachel seems to be an Irregular mostly through technicality in that she wasn't chosen to enter the Tower, but where every other irregular seems to have been special abilitywise in some manner she seems.. painfully average or below in every aspect.

I think (and this is just my guess) that she's an irregular in the same way the 10 families + V + Arlene were. Zahard was the one who opened the door, the rest followed him in. They're all still irregulars because they come from outside the tower and Headon didn't select them. And they get the irregular benefits as such (the speciality shinsoo control that the God of Guardians talked about the 10 families and irregulars being able to do), but they're not the truly willful ones capable of opening the door themselves like Zahard or Mazino.

Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Mar 29, 2017

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
I wonder if we'll get more answers about enryu and the outside when Urek meets baam this arc or if he's unrelated to all the other irregulars. I'm far more interested in everything outside the tower lol

Its definitely been hinted Rachel snuck into the tower when Baam opened the doors and everything thats been revealed seems to suggest she knew she couldn't get in herself but could follow him but doesn't explain why she met headon first though that doesn't particularly matter considering everything else with the tower.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Arlene's story straight up has her saying she has found a way out and, in her grief and rage, she would offer her dead child to the god of the outside. Then that child would return to the tower and do the revengening. Baam, and consequently Rachel, definitely seem to be from outside the Tower if we take Arlene's pocket as the truth. Mazino obviously is, Enryu presumably is given he's a messenger from the god outside, Zahard is because they "found" the tower to go in, and we don't know about Phantaminum but his power makes it a triviality.

I'm partial to the idea that Baam was left and grew up under the tower. We don't really know what it means to offer your dead child to a nebulous outside god. We also don't know where she got out or how or where she ended up as a result. We know there's some measure of unreliability in Garam's story, given that she acknowledged she's not telling Baam everything.

Two Tone Shoes posted:

We know that Rachel's ambition is actually tied to Arlene. We also know that her and Baam were in some caves. Rachel's story intentionally doesn't add up. Her actual story, related to Arlene, seems too complicated to actually explain to people who don't understand. She says she wants to get to the top to see the stars, but she actually wants to fulfill Arlene's ambition and be the child of prophecy. Part of that prophecy is "leading everyone in the tower to greater heights" after unlocking the door Zahard sealed -- if you'll remember, the one time they visualized Rachel's ambition it was an abstraction of her, standing on top of the tower -- that's her real goal, seeing the stars is probably just a metaphor for that.

It's why she just smiles when everyone calls her ambition dumb. They don't actually understand what she means and she can't be assed to reveal what she knows to them.

Totally agree - but Arlene's ambition was also to see the stars. Wanting to be whatever child of prophecy gives more oomph as to why this is so important to her, but it doesn't change that her goal is to see the stars and that getting to the top of the tower is how you do it. Which adds more questions to the above about Arlene 'getting out'. I'm honestly not sure if it's worth trying to iron out inconsistencies here, it may just be author mistake on some point or another.

Two Tone Shoes posted:

I think (and this is just my guess) that she's an irregular in the same way the 10 families + V + Arlene were. Zahard was the one who opened the door, the rest followed him in. They're all still irregulars because they come from outside the tower and Headon didn't select them. And they get the irregular benefits as such (the speciality shinsoo control that the God of Guardians talked about the 10 families and irregulars being able to do), but they're not the truly willful ones capable of opening the door themselves like Zahard or Mazino.

Rachel definitely snuck in and is not supposed to be there. I don't know if the 12 were the same way or if they opened the door themselves, but it's definitely possible.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Sarcophallus posted:

I'm partial to the idea that Baam was left and grew up under the tower. We don't really know what it means to offer your dead child to a nebulous outside god. We also don't know where she got out or how or where she ended up as a result. We know there's some measure of unreliability in Garam's story, given that she acknowledged she's not telling Baam everything.

The thing is, it's necessary for an irregular to be from outside the tower. If they're born in the tower then they're under the control of the guardians -- the outer tower areas are still under each floor's guardian, after all, and it's why all the 10 family kids need to be chosen regulars despite being descendants of Irregulars. We KNOW Zahard, Urek, and Enryu all came from outside, Baam would have to defy the pattern and I don't see why that should be the case, when the idea of Baam's dead body and Arlene leaving was already established.

Sure, there's unreliability, but I don't think there's unreliability in the fact that Arlene wanted to get out, found a way out, and beseeched some outside god. Anything in the pocket that Garam gave Baam is, at the very least, Arlene's side of the story. If she could beseech said god from within the tower then she would've never had to leave to set this chain of events up, after all.

quote:

Totally agree - but Arlene's ambition was also to see the stars. Wanting to be whatever child of prophecy gives more oomph as to why this is so important to her, but it doesn't change that her goal is to see the stars and that getting to the top of the tower is how you do it. Which adds more questions to the above about Arlene 'getting out'. I'm honestly not sure if it's worth trying to iron out inconsistencies here, it may just be author mistake on some point or another.

I think anything Rachel has told other people was her "goal" in all of this can be assumed to be horseshit ever since we got that inner monologue of her's confirming she's doing things for Arlene. Maybe Arlene's dream of seeing the stars was something she told Rachel and that's why Rachel uses it as her bullshit excuses -- that phrase means something to her. It's inconsequential, though, because we know Rachel has secret ulterior motives, so whatever she's telling everyone else doesn't matter.


quote:

Rachel definitely snuck in and is not supposed to be there. I don't know if the 12 were the same way or if they opened the door themselves, but it's definitely possible.

Well we know they all traveled with Zahard at the same time. If Zahard already opened the door I don't see why all of them would have to do it themselves. It also explains why Zahard is a step above everyone else -- he's the true Irregular, just like Urek or Enryu, and the 10 families can't match up because of it. Just like how Baam is this monster and Rachel, despite being apparently fairly competent and climbing the tower as well as anyone else, just isn't in the same league as Baam.

Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Mar 29, 2017

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Two Tone Shoes posted:

The thing is, it's necessary for an irregular to be from outside the tower. If they're born in the tower then they're under the control of the guardians -- the outer tower areas are still under each floor's guardian, after all, and it's why all the 10 family kids need to be chosen regulars despite being descendants of Irregulars. We KNOW Zahard, Urek, and Enryu all came from outside, Baam would have to defy the pattern and I don't see why that should be the case, when the idea of Baam's dead body and Arlene leaving was already established.

Sure, there's unreliability, but I don't think there's unreliability in the fact that Arlene wanted to get out, found a way out, and beseeched some outside god. Anything in the pocket that Garam gave Baam is, at the very least, Arlene's side of the story. If she could beseech said god from within the tower then she would've never had to leave to set this chain of events up, after all.

That's not actually true - all that's required to be an irregular is to not be chosen. If someone from the Outer Tower gets into the Inner Tower without Headon selecting them, they are an Irregular. This is where I believe Rachel fits in. Headon's interaction with Baam suggests that the Tower has its own, separate choosing mechanism (ones who can open the door), and that's where Baam fits in. This doesn't mean that it couldn't be someone from the Outer Tower opening the door, though.

Two Tone Shoes posted:

I think anything Rachel has told other people was her "goal" in all of this can be assumed to be horseshit ever since we got that inner monologue of her's confirming she's doing things for Arlene. Maybe Arlene's dream of seeing the stars was something she told Rachel and that's why Rachel uses it as her bullshit excuses -- that phrase means something to her. It's inconsequential, though, because we know Rachel has secret ulterior motives, so whatever she's telling everyone else doesn't matter.

Well we know they all traveled with Zahard at the same time. If Zahard already opened the door I don't see why all of them would have to do it themselves. It also explains why Zahard is a step above everyone else -- he's the true Irregular, just like Urek or Enryu, and the 10 families can't match up because of it. Just like how Baam is this monster and Rachel, despite being apparently fairly competent and climbing the tower as well as anyone else, just isn't in the same league as Baam.

Right, I think these are both totally valid points. We don't really know a lot about Rachel, not enough to know she's not lying about whatever she wants. We do know Arlene wanted to see the stars, and we can infer that if Rachel really wants the same thing then her goal is roughly the same. Maybe for very different reasons, like narcissism or some other hero-syndrome, but the goal would still be the same.

I don't imagine Rachel ever becoming anywhere near as strong as the other Family Heads, so I don't know how closely to compare them. Even if they're weaker than Zahard, they're still independently very strong, and all in the top 20 I believe.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Sarcophallus posted:

That's not actually true - all that's required to be an irregular is to not be chosen. If someone from the Outer Tower gets into the Inner Tower without Headon selecting them, they are an Irregular. This is where I believe Rachel fits in. Headon's interaction with Baam suggests that the Tower has its own, separate choosing mechanism (ones who can open the door), and that's where Baam fits in. This doesn't mean that it couldn't be someone from the Outer Tower opening the door, though.


I don't think this is possible

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Sarcophallus posted:

That's not actually true - all that's required to be an irregular is to not be chosen. If someone from the Outer Tower gets into the Inner Tower without Headon selecting them, they are an Irregular. This is where I believe Rachel fits in. Headon's interaction with Baam suggests that the Tower has its own, separate choosing mechanism (ones who can open the door), and that's where Baam fits in. This doesn't mean that it couldn't be someone from the Outer Tower opening the door, though.

Why do you think this is the case? We know all chosen regulars come from within the tower (because Headon has to choose them and he's a being of the tower), and that all the past Irregulars have come from outside the tower. Otherwise Headon COULD choose them whenever he wants. That's why they're Irregular, they're outside of the purview of the Guardians. You can't break the rules when omnipresent rabbitman can enforce the rules on you whenever he wants.

quote:

Right, I think these are both totally valid points. We don't really know a lot about Rachel, not enough to know she's not lying about whatever she wants. We do know Arlene wanted to see the stars, and we can infer that if Rachel really wants the same thing then her goal is roughly the same. Maybe for very different reasons, like narcissism or some other hero-syndrome, but the goal would still be the same.

I don't imagine Rachel ever becoming anywhere near as strong as the other Family Heads, so I don't know how closely to compare them. Even if they're weaker than Zahard, they're still independently very strong, and all in the top 20 I believe.

I actually think Rachel is going to become incredibly strong. There's 4 Thorn pieces and I'd be assed if, as they keep climbing the tower, that it doesn't end up 2 for Rachel and 2 for Baam, two Irregulars going about it different ways, trying to fulfill Arlene's wish. Both being and thinking they're the main characters of this prophecy and both being right -- after all, SIU did say Rachel is the other main character alongside Baam. I could be wrong, obviously, and everything could just fall into Baam's lap, but I think it's more interesting if Rachel becomes relevant both as someone Baam's chasing and as a legitimate rival to this weird prophecy.

And yeah, the family heads are independantly strong, but they're the Koon and Rak and Yeon to Zahard's Baam, if you catch my drift. Powerful in their own right, and the most powerful because of all the special deals they brokered and their enormous head start, but clearly a step behind Zahard.

Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Mar 29, 2017

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Jose posted:

I don't think this is possible

I'm not sure how to address that? A Regular is defined as someone chosen by Headon to climb the Tower within Zahard's little system of tests and administrators. An Irregular is anyone who isn't a Regular.

While I was looking over some things, there have been other inconsistencies too. So I had initially wanted to make a point that Arlene may have just escaped the Inner Tower into the Outer tower, which would be relevant if you generally can't go from the Inner Tower to the Outer Tower. I thought I'd read that once you were chosen you were functionally trapped in the Inner Tower forever, but I only saw in the wiki comments that the middle area can be used to travel between them. This blog post contradicts that, though.

So I guess what I'm saying is, there's some inconsistency in all of this, and I'm not going to pretend to be 100% correct.

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Why do you think this is the case? We know all chosen regulars come from within the tower (because Headon has to choose them and he's a being of the tower), and that all the past Irregulars have come from outside the tower. Otherwise Headon COULD choose them whenever he wants. That's why they're Irregular, they're outside of the purview of the Guardians. You can't break the rules when omnipresent rabbitman can enforce the rules on you whenever he wants.

We only know about the famous irregulars who shook up the tower. SIU has implicitly suggested that there are more in one of Q&As (I'm sad he's stopped doing these.)

Sarcophallus fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Mar 29, 2017

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Sarcophallus posted:

I'm not sure how to address that? A Regular is defined as someone chosen by Headon to climb the Tower within Zahard's little system of tests and administrators. An Irregular is anyone who isn't a Regular.

While I was looking over some things, there have been other inconsistencies too. So I had initially wanted to make a point that Arlene may have just escaped the Inner Tower into the Outer tower, which would be relevant if you generally can't go from the Inner Tower to the Outer Tower. I thought I'd read that once you were chosen you were functionally trapped in the Inner Tower forever, but I only saw in the wiki comments that the middle area can be used to travel between them. This blog post contradicts that, though.

So I guess what I'm saying is, there's some inconsistency in all of this, and I'm not going to pretend to be 100% correct.

Yeah the outer tower is where everyone in the tower naturally lives. The Inner Tower is for regulars and rankers who are doing test stuff. The Middle Area is for Regulars and rankers to live in if they want, as well as travel between floors, but they can also go to the outer tower. Hoaqin demonstrated that when he manipulated two kingdoms in the outer tower and did the whole soul eating thing.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Yeah the outer tower is where everyone in the tower naturally lives. The Inner Tower is for regulars and rankers who are doing test stuff. The Middle Area is for Regulars and rankers to live in if they want, as well as travel between floors, but they can also go to the outer tower. Hoaqin demonstrated that when he manipulated two kingdoms in the outer tower and did the whole soul eating thing.

SIU posted:

It's been a while since Hatsu entered the Tower
so those two would have grown up quite a bit.
Since Regulars climb the Tower without their family,
they never get to see their family again,
if they're not a member of the Ten Families.

Bolded for emphasis. I think the Hoaqin thing is a better point though, because it's more recent. I'll also note that this is why I didn't suggest the previous point.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Sarcophallus posted:

We only know about the famous irregulars who shook up the tower. SIU has implicitly suggested that there are more in one of Q&As (I'm sad he's stopped doing these.)

Skimming through that, in that very same Q&A, SIU says Baam's place and the Tower are different places!

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Skimming through that, in that very same Q&A, SIU says Baam's place and the Tower are different places!

Right. That's why I think he grew up under the tower! :)

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Sarcophallus posted:

Right. That's why I think he grew up under the tower! :)

Then I think we basically agree? Baam's little cave wasn't in the Tower. He opened the tower from outside of it, even if he was underground.

That said, when he and Rachel entered the tower the doorway they went through was below them. And Rachel seemingly led him to a specific place to get him to open the door, so I think she knew it was there. Was it a trap door that goes up? I wonder if the Tower itself is just this pocket dimension or something.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Then I think we basically agree? Baam's little cave wasn't in the Tower. He opened the tower from outside of it, even if he was underground.

That said, when he and Rachel entered the tower the doorway they went through was below them. And Rachel seemingly led him to a specific place to get him to open the door, so I think she knew it was there. Was it a trap door that goes up? I wonder if the Tower itself is just this pocket dimension or something.

Yeah I'm not sure if the Tower is actually a big physical thing built to scale. Though I guess it's not impossible if they were on a planet as big as Jupiter or something.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Two Tone Shoes posted:

Then I think we basically agree? Baam's little cave wasn't in the Tower. He opened the tower from outside of it, even if he was underground.

That said, when he and Rachel entered the tower the doorway they went through was below them. And Rachel seemingly led him to a specific place to get him to open the door, so I think she knew it was there. Was it a trap door that goes up? I wonder if the Tower itself is just this pocket dimension or something.

More or less! I'd be very interested to get a background dump on Rachel like we did on Baam.

Two Tone Shoes
Jan 2, 2009

All that's missing is the ring.

Ytlaya posted:

Yeah I'm not sure if the Tower is actually a big physical thing built to scale. Though I guess it's not impossible if they were on a planet as big as Jupiter or something.

Yeah, the only thing that makes me question this is how Urek Mazino talked about how the tower was small compared to everything out there or whatever. He might've been talking metaphorically or maybe, yeah, the SIU world is actually low gravity Jupiter or some poo poo.

Irony.or.Death
Apr 1, 2009


Sarcophallus posted:

More or less! I'd be very interested to get a background dump on Rachel like we did on Baam.

I think the only real point of disagreement was your assertion that Rachel isn't from outside the tower - the working definition of irregular seems like a secondary issue based on that. Really she's more of a mystery than Baam at this point, since now we know (part of, someone's take on) where he came from while everything else outside the tower is still mostly an open question. There are some people, there's a god, stuff is bigger in some sense. I think that's about it.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

I will never stop finding it amusing that the strongest active person in the Tower is this shirtless dude with a backwards baseball cap and a tattoo of his own name.


hahaha according to the wiki:

Wiki posted:

It is recently revealed that Yuri is obsessed with a virtual boy simulation game introduced to her by Repellista Zahard. Apparently, she hasn't stopped playing it since because it features a character that resembles Baam.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Mar 29, 2017

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Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
I love all forms of Yuri and I wish there was more of her, but at the same time I know that if she appeared more some of her quirks would begin to look tame. It makes me smile to think that she's Baam's first and probably most enthusiastic after Khun fan when she's, right now, so far above him it would be like a tree compared to a cloud.

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