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InfiniteZero posted:I'm not going to fault people reacting badly if they don't normally like this type of film and were instead expecting a period version of "Paranormal Activity". You see the people i've come across not liking it for the same reasons i did. It's not that they were expecting paranormal activity, they were expecting something tense, something that gave the subtle overburdening sensation of dread that the trailer hinted at, something persistently unnerving like a Kubrick film. Instead we got a few brilliant scenes setting the tone and then a somewhat tedious family drama plucked right out of the Crucible. The way you point out people not liking the film for its lack of in your face horror (to paraphrase) is wrong. It's the lack of even the most subtle of horror that made it tedious. Bar a few scenes (that the trailer pretty much covered) it was entertaining, but barely unnerving at all. There's a quote from a review that's been put into the trailer that said "it felt like i watched something i shouldn't have seen" and after the baby scene it felt like that was exactly what we were going to get, but the film never again reached that level.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:16
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I don't know how seeing the mother's jealousy of the daughter slowly manifesting as the daughter's attempts at self-actualization dig her own grave for her, while the son tries to follow his father's example, down to lying, is anything but tense and dreadful. When they first come the wild, they kneel on the hilltop in prayer together. It's possible that if they had stayed together, most of them might have survived. But they didn't, they turned on each other. The stakes were life and death and the stress of imminent starvation hung over every decision. I found it incredibly tense and heartbreaking.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:29
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Kin posted:It's the lack of even the most subtle of horror that made it tedious. What a person finds horrific is subjective. For me, the looming presence of a mostly unseen creature in the forest that recently stole and smashed up a baby is horrific. Then again, I'm a city guy and I get creeped out if I'm in a forest any deeper than where I can still clearly see the nearest strip of highway.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:29
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Snak posted:I don't know how seeing the mother's jealousy of the daughter slowly manifesting as the daughter's attempts at self-actualization dig her own grave for her, while the son tries to follow his father's example, down to lying, is anything but tense and dreadful. When they first come the wild, they kneel on the hilltop in prayer together. It's possible that if they had stayed together, most of them might have survived. But they didn't, they turned on each other. The stakes were life and death and the stress of imminent starvation hung over every decision. I found it incredibly tense and heartbreaking. Because it wasn't exactly slow or subtle. The mother daughter confrontation was blatant from the moment she clearly blamed her for losing the baby. The escalating frustration at the twins and their insolence, the confession of being a which by the river coming back to cause friction and ultimately end up being true. The entire family drama was trite and predictable and ultimately just that, family drama. There was no horror, no unnerving suspense save for the few moments where the family actually interacted with the witch which were too few and far between.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:16
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Yeah I mean if you don't think that a family literally thinking that the devil is possessing one of them, and turning on each-other over it isn't horror, then I can see why you wouldn't like this movie. The idea that "family drama" and "horror" are somehow mutually exclusive is an odd distinction to me, since I generally associate effective horror with character's emotional states in the context of their situation. It's family drama with the context of them facing starvation and death and they believe that, rather than this just being a tough break, one of them has brought this fate upon with sin.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:39
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if a movie doesn't scare me that doth not mean it's not still a horror movie...
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Mar 15, 2016 01:48
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:if a movie doesn't scare me that doth not mean it's not still a horror movie... Verily
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Mar 15, 2016 01:57
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Control question for forums poster Kin: Do you also consider Rosemary's Baby to be only "family drama" and not "horror"?
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Mar 15, 2016 02:03
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*yawn* rosemary's baby is like an episode of full house
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Mar 15, 2016 02:07
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A family tearing itself apart at the moment when its members need solidarity and trust the most is pretty goddamn horrific. The idea that there's actually a malicious outside force at the root of the family's self-destruction is horrific as gently caress.
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Mar 15, 2016 02:13
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:*yawn* rosemary's baby is like an episode of full house Rosemary's baby with a laugh track would be really disconcerting
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Mar 15, 2016 02:36
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:*yawn* rosemary's baby is like an episode of full house i'm pretty sure watching an episode of full house would do more to scare me and shake my faith in humanity than watching rosemary's baby
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Mar 15, 2016 03:04
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Snak posted:I don't know how seeing the mother's jealousy of the daughter slowly manifesting as the daughter's attempts at self-actualization dig her own grave for her, while the son tries to follow his father's example, down to lying, is anything but tense and dreadful. I found it predictable and tedious, so there.
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Mar 15, 2016 04:34
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Paolomania posted:I found it predictable and tedious, so there. And that's totally fine. Predictability doesn't negate horror. One part that I personally thought was effective was Thomasin scaring the bratty little sister by the stream, saying that she was the witch and if Mercy didn't leave her alone and ever told anyone she would eat her. You can straight-up tell during this scene that this is going to come back to bite her. That's the role of scenes like that in stories. Thomasin is acting out, she is not 100% serious, but she is throwing her weight around, doing a bit of bullying because her buttons are being pushed. It becomes scary, for Thomasin, when during Caleb's apparent possession, when they all now believe that the devil's work is afoot, Mercy tells everyone that Thomasin admitted to being the witch. This puts Thomasin in a horrible position where, because the context has changed, because she is now a woman, and there is all the evidence of witchcraft, that she must either admit that she did say she was a witch and then try to convince them otherwise, or lie in an attempt to save herself. Which is surely a sin. Then after this, she thinks that while her mother is now poisened against her with grief, her father trusts and loves her. And it is in the comfort of his arms that she realizes that he is reminiscing with her about what their dreams were as a family because he is saying goodbye. And she has lost everything. The horror lies in the utter destruction of Thomasin's life by guilt over sin. I have been thinking about this story a lot, and it is not sin that damns these people, but their concepts of sin requiring guilt and blame and punishment. William is prideful and dishonest and he feels great shame in this. Katherine is covetous and jealous and likens herself to Job's wife. Caleb is lustful, both towards Thomasin and the witch he sees in the forest, and for this he feels shame. The twins are carefree at first, friends of Black Phillip, but when they realize they will get in trouble for it, they renounce him and are afraid for what they have done. Only Thomasin is steadfast in standing by her choices. She only lies once, in jest, to Mercy, and she admits that she did and she knows why she did. She defends herself and her actions honestly, not moaning about her sin or the sin of others. She accepts responsibility for her actions. She admits her wants and desires. And that is why she is saved.
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Mar 15, 2016 05:08
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Did anyone else notice that at no point in the film do Mercy & Jonas (the twins) look like adorable nice children typical of their age? They always look like malevolent, evil little fuckers.
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Mar 15, 2016 13:22
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Snak posted:And that's totally fine. Predictability doesn't negate horror. I like-a this post
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Mar 15, 2016 14:23
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alnilam posted:I like-a this post Yeah, the stuff about burdening children with the confusing concept of original sin is really strong.
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Mar 15, 2016 14:45
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GiantAmazonianOtter posted:Did anyone else notice that at no point in the film do Mercy & Jonas (the twins) look like adorable nice children typical of their age? They always look like malevolent, evil little fuckers. Mercy and Jonas loving rule 
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Mar 15, 2016 16:01
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They're like the little fuckers from The Brood.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:14
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:They're like the little fuckers from The Brood. They even move like them, because in The Brood they had the big snowsuits, but in this they have those weird binding layers of clothes.  Related: The Brood is another "Family Drama".
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Mar 15, 2016 16:25
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RichterIX posted:Mercy and Jonas loving rule Mercy/Jonas/Black Phillip goon squad
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Mar 15, 2016 16:25
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InfiniteZero posted:Related: The Brood is another "Family Drama". Absolutely.
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Mar 15, 2016 16:33
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Paolomania posted:The Witch, as mentioned earlier in this thread, not only gives up the supernatural goods early, but this is a world where Thomasin does believe in Evil, she knows that Evil things stole and probably killed the baby, tortured her brother to death, and thus prodded the events that made her parents go crazy and get killed. She is portrayed throughout the movie as believing in fairness and justice in sticking up for herself and show that she actually cares for her family though they might be batshit crazy. But lo, in the end we are expected to accept that she will reject her inner sense of justice and join forces with the Evil that hosed up her life and killed everyone that she loved because the modern audience expects a story of empowering rejection of patriarchal dogma or something. I don't think Thomasin could appreciate the murder of Samuel and the torture of Caleb (both off-screen, Caleb's feverish and ecstatic passing nonwithstanding) as much as she could appreciate her family's treatment of her. Her remaining siblings disappeared, her father gave up, and her mother tried to kill her, all the while blaming her for everything. I also think she may have chosen to reject justice, given the example of justice her father provided for her.
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Mar 15, 2016 21:19
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I think her choice at the end was pure pragmatism. She has seen two sides clash, with her caught in the middle, and one side gets results and the other doesn't. She will literally die of hunger and cold by herself if she does nothing. So she goes and appeals to the only power that she has seen evidence of.
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Mar 15, 2016 21:38
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it's quite clear in the movie that the goat lord of heck rules and the god of her family is absent and/or doesn't care much for his flock it's a practical material and metaphysical choice
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Mar 15, 2016 22:13
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:it's quite clear in the movie that the goat lord of heck rules and the god of her family is absent and/or doesn't care much for his flock Or she just traded one lovely abusive family for another.
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Mar 16, 2016 00:35
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Boogaleeboo posted:Or she just traded one lovely abusive family for another. At least she'll have butter.
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Mar 16, 2016 12:00
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Boogaleeboo posted:Or she just traded one lovely abusive family for another. She realizes she has nowhere to go but up (witch she does).
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Mar 16, 2016 16:40
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It's a pretty cynical movie by most accounts I'd say.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:18
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Snak posted:She realizes she has nowhere to go but up (witch she does). I love this.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:22
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SHISHKABOB posted:It's a pretty cynical movie by most accounts I'd say. I hope that there's a "Fully endorsed by the Satanic Temple!" sticker on the blu-ray.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:33
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When asked about the Satanic Temple endorsement during a Q&A the director simply replied "It's good to have fans.".
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Mar 16, 2016 18:51
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Absolutely. Possession is also a family drama about a family falling apart.  There are a few common threads between the films. I'm not sure if the satanic temple approves of its message though.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:54
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It's hard to say which is less subtle about it, but The Brood depicts the unsympathetic ex-wife as a literal bitch with multiple teats, cleaning her pups with her tongue, little kids as twisted little monsters, etc.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:26
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's hard to say which is less subtle about it, but The Brood depicts the unsympathetic ex-wife as a literal bitch with multiple teats, cleaning her pups with her tongue, little kids as twisted little monsters, etc. Yeah, and then with Possession, the child at the end reacts to the whole family drama by throwing himself face down into a bathtub full of water. So like The VVitch, a family member "resolves" the situation in unexpected ways when the reality of what has been happening becomes apparent. As an aside: One of my favourite things about Possession now is that the top Frequently Asked Question on IMDB for it is "WHAT DID I JUST SEE?". I think that Possession was a definite influence on Anti-Christ, and in turn Anti-Christ was an influence on The VVitch, especially in tone, if not just for one obvious shared element (unexpected animal talking). InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 20:46
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Hearing Ralph Ineson yell at a kid "Did ye make covenant with this goat!?" is probably the best movie line of the past year. Movie was great.
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Mar 17, 2016 23:00
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Kin posted:You see the people i've come across not liking it for the same reasons i did. It's not that they were expecting paranormal activity, they were expecting something tense, something that gave the subtle overburdening sensation of dread that the trailer hinted at, something persistently unnerving like a Kubrick film. Can you imagine if Kubrick made an actual horror movie instead of the family drama The Shining? Stephen King might've actually liked it then.
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Mar 17, 2016 23:16
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Chairman Capone posted:Hearing Ralph Ineson yell at a kid "Did ye make covenant with this goat!?" is probably the best movie line of the past year. Taken out of context it could sound like any old dad trying to discipline his kid. "Did ye make covenant with this joint I found in ye room?!"
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Mar 19, 2016 23:05
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SHISHKABOB posted:Taken out of context it could sound like any old dad trying to discipline his kid.     
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Mar 20, 2016 00:42
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this movie scarred me edit: I think the possession comparison is apt, both movies are designed to make your skin crawl and your brain bug out
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Mar 20, 2016 22:27
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