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ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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I just got interviewed by a local urban farming blogger!
http://www.farmtina.com/2010/08/a-beekeeper-in-brooklyn.html

Now that it's legal in the city (NYC), I've set up a few hives and gotten to work.

I'm also thinking of starting a blog of my own, covering beekeeping, and urban beekeeping specifically. If anyone is interested in helping out, or just wants to ask questions, let me know!

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ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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TouchyMcFeely posted:

That's awesome! I would imagine that beekeeping in a location as urban as NYC would add some pretty interesting hurdles and problems that you wouldn't run into with a bit more space like most of us have.

Glad to hear NYC finally decided to pull its head out of its rear end and allow beekeepers to come out of hiding.

Yeah, it was really exciting. My downstairs neighbor and I, who is also a beekeeper, ran out to get bees the instant it was legalized.

Anyways, the blog is up, so check it out and email me (timsbrooklynbees at gmail dot com) questions you'd like me to answer or topics you'd like me to address.

https://boroughbees.blogspot.com

Also, let me know if you see anything that needs to be worked on. I've never done a blog before, so I don't know what I'm doing with templates and such. I can use all the help I can get.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Leperflesh posted:

So yesterday a bee got up my pants leg and stung me.

Today, my left calf and knee are swollen. Enough to worry my wife... so if it's still bad tomorrow, we're gonna go get it checked out.

I've been stung before, but I've not had such a reaction before. I hope I'm not becoming allergic!

It's good that you're going to get it checked out. While it's rare, severe allergies CAN develop over time as you become more sensitive.

Then again, it might just be that your body was already irritated about something and just over reacted to the stings be but its better safe than sorry.

Have you taken any antihistamines to help you with stings before?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Maximusi posted:

My neighbor, who is a doctor, saw my bee sting and basically told me that I was allergic. It's not normal to swell that much, apparently. After that, I took 2 benadryl a day just to get the swelling and itchiness down. I posted this pic on goon doctor as well and they told me the same thing. :/



A lot of GPs are terrible at allergies. Reactions to beestings vary wildly, even in the same person. Your reaction can depend on a variety of factors, such as:
Where you were stung.
How often you've been stung.
How deep the stinger worked itself.
How quickly you removed the stinger.
How much venom was injected.
The hive you were working with.

Here are two stings that I got yesterday:

Sting 1: Ring finger on right hand. Only a little penetration and a little venom. Got it out quickly and it's gone already.


Sting 2: Different hive, working without gloves again. She got me full on, stinger fully embedded and a full load of venom. Pinched out the stinger. Little pain, as long as I don't flex it, but the local swelling is impressive. It was taut, until I took Benadryl and iced it.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Maximusi posted:

For me it took like a week for the swelling to go completely down.

Mines back to (practically) normal today. Swelling lasted for about a day and a half, which doesn't seem too bad.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ikantski posted:

I pulled all the full frames out of my two supers this weekend. I wasn't expecting any honey at all this year as I started the hive from a 5 frame nuc at the end of May. 15 frames were mostly capped and it worked out to about 45 pounds of amazing honey, very light and not overpoweringly sweet.

My question is what to do with the supers now? I have two large bodies on the bottom and the top one is pretty full of honey, I'm just wondering if they would be better off with that and a super for the winter or if that would make the hive too big and harder to keep warm?




Leperflesh is right. Talk to your local beekeeping association and see what they do about now. I live in NY, so our climate is reasonably similar. I've extracted my honey, and I've given the supers back to the bees for a week to allow them to clear out any of the honey that didn't spin out in the extractor. Then, depending on how their stores in the brood chamber look, I might feed them some heavy sugar syrup (2:1) to supplement.

Now is also the right time to check for any brood diseases or mite problems and treat them appropriately.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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lags posted:

This fungivirus (virungus?) is obviously a diversion created by cell phone towers and big-pesticide-resistant-corn-crops to keep us from The Truth!! :tinfoil:

Actually, this may not be too far from the truth:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/08/news/honey_bees_ny_times.fortune/index.htm

The researcher who published the study had/has a major grant from Bayer, producer of neonicotinoid pesticides that some have linked to bee die-offs.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Leperflesh posted:

Fortunately it doesn't get that cold here for a while yet. At some point we may have to pick through and just try and get the best frames together into one super, and then take the other two supers' worth regardless of their state.

This is sort of what I do. I harvest all my capped honey and let them clean out the supers overnight. Then if there are any uncapped frames, I extract everything and use it for mead

Delicious mead.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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TouchyMcFeely posted:

So winter is rapidly approaching for those of us who lucky enough to have seasons.

Last year I wrapped the hive in insulation batting tucked into giant trash bags. I'm a bit torn on whether I want to do so again this year or go with the "let 'em tough it out" option. There's a fair amount of debate either way and both sides seem to make a good argument.

Anybody care to weigh in from either perspective?

I live in NYC, so I get real winters, but not deathly cold ones.

How cold do you get?

I leave my hives with plenty of ventilation. I worry more about condensation than cold, so I leave a varroa screened bottom board on the hive, along with a notched inner cover to facilitate a bit of air flow. They seem to do pretty well.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Leperflesh posted:

Alright, my wife has been asking me to "ask the goons" about this.

On Oct. 16, we tore down the hive for a full inspection, to see where we were with the bees. So, we removed all three honey supers (all of which have open cells of honey, but no frames are more than maybe 25% full at the most), and then for the first time since we added the first honey super, we removed the queen excluder and checked out the brood chamber.

Definitely something we should do more often but it's a pain in the rear end and disturbs the bees, so we've been avoiding it.

Anyway, there's a big brood chamber (two deeps), lots of good looking bees, but we saw something really weird.

This is the center frame of the upper deep:


Here it is in larger resolution:


Closer up:


Detail of the previous pic:


Another angle:


Detail of the previous pic:


As you can see, there's lots of capped brood cells. However, a number of cells are uncapped, showing not-fully-developed metamorphosing bees! Seems wrong, I believe the bees are opening incomplete chrysalises.

You can see the "purple eyes" of live almost-bees... and you can also see some cells containing what appear to be killed semi-developed bees as well. Hard to see exactly what's going on but it sure looks like the workers are opening some cells and killing the brood.

Any idea why they'd do this?

We had the mite board in for four days, but when we removed it we couldn't find a single mite (and we've seen them before). So, this suggests it's not varroa.

We had one beekeeper over for dinner a couple nights ago, and we showed her the pics. She suggested our bees may have tracheal mites, based on a couple of pics that showed bees holding their wings in the "K" pattern (not folded all the way back). But I don't know if that could be related to this open-not-done-bee-cell thing.

Any ideas? Are we misinterpreting what we're seeing here? Fact is we've not had the brood chamber open since the spring, and at that time we saw nothing like this, but all in all we're still newb beekeepers, so if this is totally normal and/or those aren't killed half-formed bees, that would be a big relief.

K wings is the most common sign of tracheal mites, so if it's still warm enough, you should treat with menthol/thymol and knock the suckers out.

That brood pattern, the uncapped pupae and the chewed up pupae ARE likely indicative of a Varroa infestation. I assume you're using a varroa screened bottom board with your mite board, and if so it's odd that you arent seeing many drops, but you should do a sugar shake (put a handful of bees in a jar with a #8 mesh lid and powdered sugar, seal the top, shake them hard and then shake out the powdered sugar and mites (the bees will calm down after a few minutes and you can release them)) or a drone check (use an uncapping fork to spear some drone pupae and remove them from their cells). I think that you'll find varroa with either method.

They chew up the brood like that when the brood is dead and they want to remove it from the hive. The instinct to remove them is a good one ('hygienic' breeds are measured in part by how well they perform this task) but that many is a lot and suggests that they aren't keeping up. Have you been seeing any 'stunted' or 'wobbly' bees crawling in front of the hive?

Whereabouts are you located? It's pretty late in the year to be doing a full hive inspection, at least where I am.

P.S. Can I use your pictures on my blog? I'd credit them to you, of course.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Dick Danger posted:

I can't seem to find any breeders in my state.
Let's say, theoretically, I decided to 'commandeer' a wild hive that I might theoretically come across. What if it theoretically all works out and I get this hive back to my backyard bee HQ and I introduce the wild hive to it's new home in my backyard.
Would this work? Theoretically?

This works. Practically as well as theoretically.

However, it's hard and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a decent amount of experience. Feral colonies can be great. If they've survived more than a year or two in the wild, it means that they're of decent genetic stock, at least in terms of mite and disease resistance. They may, however, be more aggressive and less productive in terms of honey than their bred and purchased counterparts.

When people obtain feral hives, either from trees or house 'cut outs', they often will wire the naturally shaped comb full of brood and honey into standard Langstroth frames. You see those handy little holes drilled into the side of each? They're perfect for wiring in wild comb. Most beekeeping supply catalogs sell 28g stainless or galvanized wire for frame wiring use. It's the same stuff you'd use to wire in established comb. You just run wires on either side and tighten them enough to hold it in place. It's pretty simple but takes a bit of practice.

Once you get them in a hive (remember to take it far enough from their feral location that the foraging bees can't find their way back to the old hive), they'll start building the comb into the frame and on any foundation you give them.

The problem with feral colonies is that you have NO idea as to their genetic makeup, which determines much of their behavior. You can roughly estimate that a colony is italian, or carnolian, or whatever other breed in origin, but you can make no determination as to the quality until you've had them for a while and observed their behavior.

Are they calm on the comb, or do they pelt you ever time you pop open the inner cover?
Do they produce lots of honey, or barely enough for them?
How's their mite population?
Etc, etc, etc.

With a feral colony, you have to keep an extra close eye out for signs of pests and disease. These days many feral colonies are founded by bees that have absconded from their former hive because of bad conditions due to disease, pests, poor management and more. You'd have to be very vigilant to ensure that you don't just inherit someone else's problems, and until you've established that the colony was healthy, you'd probably want to keep them quarantined from other, known good colonies.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Leperflesh posted:

Center of upper brood chamber:


You can see very sparse capped cells, many of which are breached. The bees are not working these cells at all; we didn't brush this off, it's just abandoned-looking.


A detail of another frame. It looks like a few of those grubs might be alive? But I don't know how I'd be able to tell for sure.


Here's a larger detail of one of the frames from the lower deep. You can see how most of what few capped cells remain are breached.


Another frame from the lower deep


And another


There's still a few hundreds of bees around and this is midday in 70s weather, so there's bees foraging too. The upper deep had several frames of full capped honey, and the three supers had some honey stored too, so it doesn't seem like they ran out of food or anything like that.

When we inspected on Oct 16 there were far more bees around, but between then and now it's possible they swarmed without us seeing (we can't see the hive from indoors). We've had some rain but also some warm days.

Or, the queen might still be in there, but it sure doesn't look like she's laying if she is.

Sorry dude, your bees absconded. It's not that they died, it's just that something was making the hive so unbearable that they just up and left. Without having seen your hives, I can't really tell you what it was.

Really bad mite infestations are a common cause. Lack of food/water is another. Too much heat. I see that your hives are out in the sun; if it's 70 in November, how hot does it get in the summer? How much do they have in the way of stores? It could be so many things, but in any case, your bees are gone.

A few hundred bees probably isn't a viable population. A winter cluster of Italians can contain up to 10,000 bees, to put it in perspective.


Speaking of winter, does anyone here have pictures of their hives in winter that I could use for my blog? I'm writing a series of articles on overwintering practices and am having difficulty finding pictures that I can use (open source or w/ permission.)

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Haha, I was the 'fellow beekeeper' who sent the samples in to the food testing lab.

Cool, isn't it? Here's part one of my writeup: http://www.boroughbees.com/2010/11/mystery-of-red-honey.html

I'd love it if y'all would share it around. I'd like to have more readers than just my mother.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ishamael posted:

Talked to my local beekeeper this week, and he will have nucs for sale in the spring, and I am pre-ordered. I am also gonna get rid of my stupid TBH (if anyone wants to come get it it is free), and do a Lang hive instead.

Bees, I am returning to you!!

Where are you? I'm going to be running quite a few hives in Brooklyn next year and wouldn't mind playing around with a top bar hive.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Raskolnikov2089 posted:

How do yall handle treating for mites in the winter?

Any opinions on Apiguard? We're trying to keep things as organic as possible, but this seems pretty harmless.

Apiguard has a temperature requirement and will only work if it's warm enough to evaporate the thymol. Same deal with formic acid pads.

Since it's the winter and there isn't much or any brood, try oxalic acid treatments. They're simple, cheap and quite effective.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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TouchyMcFeely posted:

So my colony didn't survive the winter. Rather than purchase another box I'm going to try luring a swarm using lemongrass oil.

Has anyone tried this before or have a recommendation on how much to use/when the best time is?

A.) Don't use lemongrass.
B.) Use a Nasonov or Queen pheromone swarm lure. All the supply houses sell them.
C.) Put it inside a nuc you've hoisted into a tree that has old frames of used comb.
D.) Profit.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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TouchyMcFeely posted:

Any particular reason not to use lemongrass? From what I read it seems to work pretty well even when just put on the entrance or on the top of the frames.

I also saw where some beekeepers were recommending that you take your "unwanted" queens and stick them in a jar of alcohol and let them soak for as long as possible, even up to years. Then apparently you can use the "queen tea" to attract swarms. Seems like a pretty screwed up way to go about swarm baiting from my perspective.

As I've used it, lemongrass is better food supplement than swarm attractant. A lot of the liquid food mixes, like Honey-B-Healthy, contain lemongrass because it makes the plain sugar water much more attractive to the bees. Bees prefer nectar, and people put lemongrass in their syrup to sort of bridge the gap. Swarm lures are only 5 bucks a pop anyways.

The potential problem I see with baiting using lemongrass mixture, is that you'll attract more than just honeybees.

Swarm lures contain Nasonov scent and Queen pheromones, and so they are specifically tailored to attract honeybees.

Queen tea, as you call it, is a GREAT use for a failing queen. If you need to requeen anyways, it's better to recycle the old queen as a swarm lure than it is to just toss her into the trash after you squish her. Plus, it's free.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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AFK SWARM OF BEES posted:

Went to a beekeeping meeting last night, got to talk to some interesting folks. There was a really engaging presentation by an entomologist/professor about beehives representing a "superorganism" and the genetics between supersisters and lesser sisters. It was nice to be around a bunch of people who share your enthusiasm, especially when you have a lot of friends/family who are either repulsed at the idea of bees or tired of hearing you talk about your beekeeping. :)

Our hive is going to go in a semi-shaded area beneath a fig tree in the backyard. We have a small stream that runs behind our house, and our neighbors have a pool and hot tub. I'm already dreading the idea of the bees flocking to the pool/hot tub to get water. So, I planned on putting a birdbath near the hive to give the bees another option of close water. Does anyone have any stories about bees and water sources? Do they pick a favorite source and go to it, regardless of what else is around? Or will they usually stick to whatever's closest to the hive (or most clean, most fresh)?

Beekeeping meet-ups are great, and they've really changed in recent years. When I started beekeeping, I was the youngest person in the room by about 40 years. Hell, my Dad was probably the second youngest. These day's, it's all about a younger generation finding their own way and learning from those older gentlemen. I'm no longer the youngest in the room. By far. It's fantastic.

You're always going to have a few bees wander over to your neighbor's place to find water, but if you provide a sweet and clear source of water that is constantly renewed and closer to the hive than their pool, the bees will go to that preferentially. Just make sure that you always keep it full and fresh.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ishamael posted:

Well, my beehive got here, and it is a mess.

Apparently there are 2 sizes of hive that dadant offers, and their website and catalog don't make that clear. So I have half the hive at one size and half at the other, and they do not go together at all!

I was going to just order another half-and-half hive and make 2 hives, a bigger and smaller, but I can't even figure out on their website which is which!!

:argh:

You got 8 frame and 10 frame?

8 frame is dumb.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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DominionGalactica posted:

Hey Touchy, I would suggest leaving the OP as it is. It has the absolute perfect amount of information and enthusiasm to hook "newbees". I basically went through the whole thread in one sitting and by the end of it was hell bent on making a top bar hive.

As a crotchety old beekeeper, please do not do this.

I know that there is a huge amount of internet hype about top bar hives and how great and 'natural' they are, but please don't buy into it just because there are forums devoted to it on the internet.

Think of it this way: In the wild bees live in hollow trees, long VERTICAL enclosed spaces. Their natural instinct is to build vertically, keeping the heavy honey at the very top of the hive where the comb is the strongest and storing the light pollen and brood at the bottom. This instinct is what beekeepers take advantage of to encourage growth and production (and limit swarming behavior) by adding additional hive bodies or supers to the top of the hive. If they always have space on top to fill, they are fooled into believing that there is always space to expand within the colony.

Bees are dumb, but they are creatures of habit. Honey is always preferentially placed vertically OVER the brood. Have you spotted the problem with top bar hives yet?

They're horizontal. No matter how many bars you add to the end, the bees are limited vertically almost immediately and so they tend to respond as such. They will build out horizontally eventually but they tend to swarm prolifically, and because you can't add more vertical boxes, there is little you can do to prevent it other than constantly cutting out queen cells or letting them swarm.

Get a Langstroth. If you decide that you want to try top bars once you get a little experience, give it a shot.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ishamael posted:

Well, dadant won't take back the stuff I got, since I started to put it together before realizing it was the wrong size.

Thanks a lot, dadant! You blow.

EDIT: I told them their website descriptions are crap, but they aren't changing anything, I guarantee it.

Uhhh...

I just looked at their site and their 8 frame equipment has it's own section and every piece of 8 frame equipment clearly states that it is "8 Frame" in both the name and description.

Were you drunk when you ordered?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ishamael posted:

Sorry dude, this is my first Lang hive, I didn't even know there was a difference until I started assembling them. I ordered the hive base first, and then all the deeps and supers didn't say anything about how many frames they had, so I assumed all the hive pieces they sold were compatible.

Take a look at betterbee's site for an example of a site that is actually laid out well.

So you ordered all this equipment without doing any research about the standard 10 frame Langstroth hive or knowing that there was a difference between 10 and 8 frame, didn't question that half of your order had "8 frame" in the name and half didn't, ASSEMBLED the order, figured out that you screwed up, and then accused Dadant of blowing because they wouldn't let you return it?

You hosed up dude. Not them. Swallow your pride and get over it.

10 frame Langstroth ARE THE STANDARD. 10 frame equipment doesn't need to be specifically labeled as 10 frame because it is so ubiquitous AND because everything that isn't 10 frame (like 8 frame) is labed as such. I'm pretty sure that every single beginning beekeeping book has an entire section on the 10 frame Langstroth hive, and most of the newer ones make mention of 8 frame equipment and how it's different.

BetterBee has a 10 frame and an 8 frame section. Dadant (and a lot of other manufacturers) have a Woodenware section (for standard 10 frame equipment) AND an 8 Frame Woodenware section.

Did you mean to order all 8-frame equipment, or all 10 frame equipment?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Ishamael posted:

Jesus christ, gently caress off. Yes, I ordered the 8-frame kit by accident without realizing it was an 8-frame. I learned after it was half-assembled that I had made this mistake. Thanks for pointing this out and for being a giant dick.

I contacted the company and tried to work something out with them. They told me no.
The same day, my wife accidentally ordered the wrong thing from amazon. She contacted them and they straightened it all out, and told her to keep the extra item, and shipped the new one overnight at no charge. One of these is good customer service.

I have no doubt that I will pay for a new 10-frame hive body with bottom, inner cover and outer cover. But I was hoping to get some help as a new beekeeper from the company I bought the poo poo from. They had no interest in that, and it made me annoyed. That's all.

You know what? You're right. I'm being a dick, and I'm sorry. I shouldn't be a jerk about it. It's been a long time since I was a new beekeeper and maybe I've forgotten how confusing all the equipment and terms where when I was starting out. I don't think they even MADE 8 frame equipment when I was ordering my first hives, and maybe that's the only thing that saved me from making the same sort of mistake.

Still, I think that you should give the company a pass on this one. The comparison to Amazon isn't really fair; it's apples to oranges, Walmart to a Mom and Pop general store. The woodenware business is low margin and most of the manufacturers are family owned 'small businesses'. I doubt that Dadant could afford to have the same sort of super cushy return policy that Amazon has and stay in business. If they had made a shipping error- shipped you 8 frame when you ordered 10 frame, or something had been damaged in transit, they would have done a return, but being mad at them for not accepting assembled (used) equipment is not fair on your part. Next time, you should test fit all the equipment together before you start nailing. That's a good idea regardless and lets you check for any broken bits or errors.

For anyone who is worried that something like this might happen to them, I urge you to call up Dadant/Mann Lake/Brushy Mountain/BetterBee or whatever company you are ordering from and talk to their customer service about what you want to get. Most everyone at the company keeps bees themselves, and they are usually more than happy to offer advice to new beekeepers.

Maybe a fuller breakdown of what a new beekeeper should get and the differences between different types of hives is something that should go into an updated OP. Do you think that would help?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Raskolnikov2089 posted:

My first sting! Today I'm a man.

Pics or it didn't happen.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Raskolnikov2089 posted:

It didn't cause any swelling, so yay for that. I wasn't sure since I haven't been stung since I was 7.

In other news, we put the first super on the langstroth. The queen is laying like crazy and there were so very, very many bees.

Opened up the top bar which was quiet, and there weren't many bees at all. Checked all the comb and saw only 3 sealed brood, and no eggs that we could find.

Still a package size amount of bees in there, but I think either the queen absconded or she's dead :(

Not sure why she'd wait until now to abscond, since we put her in there last march. Maybe with the first warm days she'd had enough of the TBH, which I don't think was as weatherly as the langstroth.

How did you introduce the queen originally?

You should requeen quiiiiiick. Where are you located?

Edit: Reading comprehension. I didn't realize that these were overwintered hives. Looking back at your post history, I thought you mentioned getting Carnolians, but the pictures you posted are of Italians? Did you change your mind? Also, how did you not get stung until now. :psyduck:

ShotgunWillie fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 29, 2011

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Nope, all Italians. Very respectful of the bees, but it helps that they're a docile lot. We don't work with suits either, just gloves and veil. The only reason I got stung this time is because I was looking at the hive and a returning worker flew into my eye, forcing panicked swiping from me.

I'm looking for a queen but I don't think it's going to happen in time. No one local (south Texas) seems to have one for at least a week, and I'm thinking given the complete lack of brood, the hive won't be strong enough to last.

Try Olivarez in NorCal. OHBees.com. I've heard good things about them, and a lot of people here in NYC get Olivarez carnolians and love them.

How's the population in your regular langstroth? Have you done a split yet?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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Lemons posted:

A couple of hours every weekend to look after.

You got it. Bees make good pets. They clean, feed and water themselves for the most part with some help in the early spring and late fall. Your job is mainly to check in on them once every week or two, check for signs of disease, give them more room so they don't swarm and give them food if there is a dearth.

It can be a really relaxing hobby, and it takes a hell of a lot time than say, a dog.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

So I am finishing putting wax in the brood box frames and am running into what appears to be a problem. Some of the foundation now doesn't appear to fit quite right and is bulging a considerable amount to one side of the frame. The frames are square, it just seems that the foundation is a half cm or so too long, and I can't trim it because of the wires in the wax. Is this a problem I need to worry about or will it not matter to the bees and they will do whatever they need to? Its very bizarre, and I bought the foundation and frames from the same place so you think they would know if its supposed to fit or not.

edit: It seems to be from using posts rather than wiring frames. I picked up enough posts to do 20 frames to try them out and, well, they suck. Not only do they take longer to put in then wiring frames but they cause this bulging which can't be good. Glad I have some extra frames, will have to undo the furring strip and wire the few posted frames I did.

Lemme guess: slotted or solid bottom bar and hook end wired foundation? I'm always surprised at how common this problem is. Frames with solid slotted bottom bars tend to have slightly less room for foundation because they have to increase the thickness of the bottom bar without increasing the overall size of the frame.

The bowing is a problem and will make your bees build their comb just as bowed as the foundation. If wiring fixes it, then good, but make sure that you're not just putting all the tension/bowing on to the last section of foundation under the lowest wire. You might consider using wire cutters to snip the wires and shorten the foundation a bit. You can recycle the bits as starter strips for if you ever decide to go foundationless.

Weitz posted:

'm moving to Brooklyn this Fall for graduate school (in Entomology no less! Parasitic wasps!) and I would love, love, love to keep a beehive and a rooftop garden with things bees love.

How the hell do I find that kind of situation? I've seen a few ads on craigslist toting roof decks (and gardening potential), but even though they're legal now, I'm worried about landlords just sort of staring at me like I'm a crazy person.

Any advice? I've seen the NYC beekeepers club page so some of these folks must be managing.

nesbit37 posted:

You also need to check the laws in Brooklyn, can you keep beehives there legally? I am pretty sure it is not (or at least not until recently) to keep bees in New York City, people just do it anyway.

What may work for you is what I ended up doing; talking to community gardens to find one that is looking for someone to keep bees in one of their plots. I also know people that use urban cemeteries, and old factory buildings. One guy has had a lot of luck keeping bees on the roof of an old abandoned Tasty Cake factory.

It's completely legal to keep bees ANYWHERE in NYC, and it's great. There are a few requirements, of course. You must use useable frame hives (duh), keep domesticated bees (duh), maintain the hives (duh), and provide a constant source of fresh water for every hive site.

I generally don't recommend keeping bees at your place if you rent. You'd have to inform your landlord about them or risk your lease, and most landlords aren't comfortable with it. On top of that, moving bees in the city is a royal loving pain.

Have you ever tried carrying a full hive (Deeps!) up 4 flights of steep NYC stairs?

I have.

You don't want to.

Like nesbit mentioned, people in the city get creative. I keep bees on the roof of an orthodox synagogue, a restaurant, and at a large urban farm. I know people who keep bees on decommissioned nunneries in the Bronx!

I do know people who have them in the backyard of their rental, but they have landlords who are very interested in urban homesteading, which adds some stability to the situation.

Edit: Weitz, I didn't even know they HAD an entomology program in the city. Where are you going. Drop me a line when you're in the city and I'll introduce you to some people. (Bees.)

ShotgunWillie fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 30, 2011

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

Thats exactly it, slotted bottom bar with hook foundation. I tried cutting one of the foundation pieces last night but the foundation itself just didn't being cut before I even got to the wire. If I go that route I may try a hot knife something till the wire is clear, but at least so far the pieces that I have used wires on rather than pegs have worked fine and it doesn't appear to add any tension on the lowest wire.

Like you said, no-one seems to have caught on to the fact that 8 1/2 inch foundation doesn't fit in solid barred frames where the depth is only 8 3/8s of an inch. If you already have the frames or just like that particular style, Walter T. Kelley sells deep wired foundation cut specifically to fit solid and grooved bottom bar frames, catalog numbers 122WH (8 3/8") and 121 (8 1/8") respectively.

I don't think I've wired a frame in the last decade or so. It's a lost art. Do you crimp? Use an electrical embedder or a spur tool?

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

Thanks for the info.

I don't crimp, and I use a spur tool. Its pretty relaxing while watching tv. Can do a medium frame in under minute when I rush. Deeps take twice as long since you need two nails.

Do a write up.

Seriously, not enough people know how to wire frames to do a good job of it.

ShotgunWillie
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AFK SWARM OF BEES posted:

Participating in a hive inspection next Saturday. My girls aren't scheduled to get here until the last week of April (though something tells me I might get a phone call before that, knowing how unpredictable everything has been lately) so I figured I'd get some experience on opening the hive, checking the health of the bees, and other important things to notice. I'll be going with a much more experienced beekeeper, so I'm looking forward to it. Nothing like learning from experience! :)

A question about hive placement: we're planning on sticking the hive in our backyard by a shady fig tree. However, we have some invasive English Ivy growing around that area, and some friends of ours advised us to cut it way, way back or risk it growing over the hive or possibly destroying the hive.

Does anyone else have any problems/experience with invasive vines/plants around hives? From what I've noticed over the past year, it doesn't really grow that fast and it tends to avoid the area around the fig tree. We plan on pouring down some gravel over the location and setting the hive down on cinderblocks in the gravel, and we also don't plan on using any chemicals to kill the ivy.

You're gonna have fun. Bees are extra friendly in the spring and it's remarkably satisfying to see them fly back and forth carrying massive loads of pollen. Beekeepers are the best people to learn about beekeeping from!

When I started out, I read a bunch of books and did a lot of research, but nothing was as helpful as getting real hands on experience with someone who actually knew what they were doing.

Don't worry too much about the Ivy, just cut it back every time it gets too close to the hive. I'm assuming that since you have a fig tree you live in a warm locale, so the shade will be useful. Make sure you place the hive so that they get sun in the morning and shelter from the hottest sun in the afternoon.

ShotgunWillie
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Weitz posted:

Welp, I'll be a phd at the Museum of Natural History (they've just started their own phd program, but they've maintained fellowships with CUNY, NYU, Columbia, and Cornell for hundreds of years and lots of students have passed through) whose research focus is entomology and fossil insects. There *is* a curatorial department of entomology with collections, just as there are curatorial departments of vertebrate paleo, ornithology, botany, etc, etc. "Behind the scenes" of the museum is wild.

What's it like to keep a beehive on top of an orthodox synagogue? I've been wanting to do educational outreach with the orthodox community (namely orthodox girls) and beekeeping and urban gardening seem an awesome way to do it.

That's pretty loving cool. I have a membership to that Museum and it's totally worth the trouble of getting to.

Feel free to bring me along to see "behind the scenes". I'd love to see some sweet fossil bees to write up for my blog.

I work those bees with my neighbor who is both Orthodox and Jewish. They're starting to lean Hasidic (according to my neighbor), if that is of concern, but they seem like nice folks. The rabbi seems to be quite pleased to have bees on the roof and apparently honey is used in some religious ceremonies.

*factoid* Many rabbis consider honey kosher. While it is partially ingested by the bees, raw nectar is stored in the honey stomach or crop, and so is not considered 'unclean'.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

Bee day!


The hives pre-bee installation.

Lookin' good man.

Your inner covers are on upside-down though. The notch/upper entrance and side with bee space faces up under your outer cover. :colbert:

ShotgunWillie
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nesbit37 posted:

I was told to put them on like that for now, the reasoning being if they are on the other way the bee's won't defend that entrance and bumblebee's and other insects will be allowed to go in to drink from the sugar syrup fountain. This way that entrance counts as part of the hive and the bees will defend it. I flip it back of course when I stop feeding.

This is true. However, the risk you run is a lot of brace comb under the inner cover. I would suggest putting it the right way and blocking it with a small piece of wood. That would solve both problems.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

Before I forget, on Wednesday I plan to release the queens assuming the bees seem to be non-hostile towards here. What is the best way to take out the cork of the quick release? Do I just dig it out with a hive tool?

Yeah, it shouldn't be stuck in too badly. I just use the corner of my tool to gently pry it out. If it's stuck for some reason, you can also use the tool to carefully pry out the staples keeping the mesh on the front of the cage and let her out that way.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

The instructors in my class have said repeatedly to only use generic white sugar like you can buy in 25# bags at the grocery store from Diamond. They have said brown sugar is bad for bees, but I don't remember why. They didn't go into it much since everytime some would ask "What about **** sugar" they would just interupt and say stick with the generic stuff from places like Diamond because we know it's safe and other sugars can cause problems.

If it helps, they also said to put a couple of drops of bleach or chlorine in with the sugar if you are putting on a feeder larger than a quart. It will prevent the sugar water from molding, though the bees will drink it even if it does.

Yeah, pretty much. Brown sugar has a much higher mineral, or ash, content- a lot of impurities that the bees can't digest. Too high a concentration of indigestibles and the bees get dysentery. You can usually clear it up by switching to a syrup made from plain white sugar.

The bleach trick works, but be sure not to add too much. Alternately, adding Honey-B-Healthy (I don't use it personally, but hear it's fine) or other essential oils (lemongrass/wintergreen (what I use)/peppermint) will both help prevent mildew AND encourage the bees to take the syrup. If you're adding oils of any kind to your feed, be sure to take it off before you put your honey supers on to prevent contamination.

Regarding high fructose corn syrup, AKA HFCS, let's clear up some misconceptions. It is NOT bad for you bees in any way. It's certainly not organic, and it has an ick factor for a lot of people, but to the bees, it is a great food source.

In fact, it is closer to honey than any feed other than honey itself (chemically speaking). It's nothing but fructose and glucose in a supersaturated, acidic (pH 4.9-5.1) solution. Honey is 95% (on average) fructose and glucose (in a similar ratio!) in a supersaturated, acidic (average pH 3.9) solution. In fact, HCFS has a significantly lower ash content, arguably making it a better for overwintering on than honey.

I tend not to use it myself, but it's not the bogeyman that some people make it out to be.

ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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AFK SWARM OF BEES posted:

I don't think it's a bogeyman, I just don't want to use it. Personal preference, really. I'd rather feed my bees sugar.

Same here. But if someone was all like, hey, have some HFCS FOR FREE, I'd be okay with it. It's generally not cost effective for the small scale beekeeper.

nesbit37 posted:

^^^Are you sure about 8lbs of sugar per gallon? I was told 5lbs, which makes more sense since you can't fit an entire gallon of water into a 1:1 mixture in a gallon container. Even though it dissolves that sugar still takes up some space in the container.

Just got back from releasing the new queen. Everything appeared to go better this time around. None of her attendants were even dead. I figured things were going better when I saw two frames drawn out about 75% each. There was almost nothing there when I put the queen cage in on Sunday.

There has to be a better way of letting her crawl out though. I just stick the cage on the top of the frames and set the inner cover on top. I can't do it without squishing bees; either those on the inner cover or the ones that go to crawl on the queen cage. Its only a couple but they don't need to die just for wanting to be near their monarch!

Yeah, he's right, but it doesn't really matter.

What's important to remember is that in the spring, you feed LIGHT sugar syrup with a high water content. This has the dual role of imitating nectar and thus encouraging the bees to draw out comb and make babies, AND providing the bees a lot of water to help keep the hive cool as it heats up outside by evaporating the water in the syrup.

In the fall, you feed heavy sugar syrup (16lbs of sugar per gallon, 2:1) so that they have to do less work to evaporate the water out and store it for winter.

Regarding the queen cage, tack an index card to the long AND skinny side of the cage and hang it between two frames in the middle of the hive. You can also use rubber bands! It should be oriented so that the entrance with the candy is horizontal (which helps prevent it from getting blocked) and the side with the mesh faces the comb. You'll violate bee space for the couple of days until the queen is released and you remove the cage, but it's better than killing bees.

ShotgunWillie
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avan posted:

Am I stupid for thinking that I could keep bees in nebraska? We obviously have super harsh winters and I have no idea what we would do with them in the cold months.

Any suggestions? This sounds awesome.

The (former) largest commercial beekeeper was located in Montana, so I think you'll be fine.

I would suggest getting a northern bred or adapted queen. Like nesbit mentioned, Minnesota Hygienic stock is extremely hardy for an Italian based breeding line. Alternately, pretty much any Carnolian breed would be appropriate for your climate. Olivarez has a New World Carnolian line going that I have heard nothing but good about.

ShotgunWillie
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hayden. posted:

When opening hives and sliding those frames out, do you squish bees in the process? I never see dead bees in the photos but it seems like it'd be impossible to handle the hives without squishing a few.

It happens, but you try to avoid it. You want to assume that the queen could be anywhere, just like you always assume that a gun is loaded, and squishing bees releases alarm pheromones which tend to get the bees worked up.

Take frames out evenly and smoothly and you avoid doing too much damage. When you're ready to start putting stuff back together, you can smoke the bees down, push them out of the way with your fingers (they don't mind), or flick them off with a bee brush. Flick, not brush.

When I'm putting hive bodies back in place, I like to SLIDE them on gently from the back. It requires you to be on top of burr comb and propolis removal, but I find that it squishes fewer bees than just plopping it down right on top.

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ShotgunWillie
Aug 30, 2005

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nesbit37 posted:

Inspection day!

Its been 16 days since I put the packages in my 3 hives. The two outer hives are doing great! I am really worried about the middle one that killed its first queen, however. It has way fewer bees, like maybe 2/3 less than the other two hives. I did see eggs, but only a very small number. I didn't see any larva so unless I missed them that means the queen has only been laying for a couple of days. I figure all I can do at the moment is wait a few more days and check back to look for more eggs and or larva. Even if the hive turns out ok it will be at least a week behind, so I will probably have to put a frame of brood in from one of the other hives to strengthen it. Does anyone have advice on doing that? I imagine all I would have to do is brush all the bees off the frame (and make sure the queen isn't on the frame) and then stick it in the middle of the weak hive.

Another potential problem and possible contributor to the weakness of the middle hive is that you have all of the hives in a flat-fronted row.

You have Italians, which are relatively bad at spacial orientation. When Italian hives are placed in a straight row, foraging workers tend to "drift" to the hives on the end. Try staggering the hives, or placing them at an angle so that the entrances are not all in a straight line.

Yeah, just knock off the bees and give it to the weak hive. The emerging bees don't imprint on their new hive scent until they hatch.

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