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Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
To be nitpicky, if referring to philosophical materialism, (s)he has the wrong adjective. Donald Trump is materialistic; Daniel Dennet is materialist.

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Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
ahaha yes the naturalistic gygaxian dungeon

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
rust monsters

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

Zombies' Downfall posted:

Isn't the combination of discrimination, uncertainty, and lack of support structure the entire point of Half-Elves
perhaps but elves and by extension half-elves are terrible

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
a whole family of rapegamers

I hope you called child services

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

crime fighting hog posted:

I'm half tempted to load up the MTG maker I use to have and just start printing off powers with it for my players
There are programs out there that will format custom powers just like in the books, it's pretty nifty.

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

2e Planescape 4lyfe

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
Regardless of whether it was the basis of Tengwar, Arabic is awfully pretty. REIGN has some fun with the "calligraphy as workaround of graven images ban" thing.



Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

Tolervi posted:

Is that art from Reign, or is it real-world stuff? I've been meaning to read Reign for a while, and if it has art like that it's even more of a motivator.
Yeah, it's from Reign. Solis did a bang-up job - it's a beautiful loving book. And it's written beautifully, too, but Stolze is the author so you knew that already.

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

Etherwind posted:

The vancian system's one benefit was that its mechanics were sufficiently eldritch and arcane to match the subject they were supposed to represent.

loving around with spells per day, spell levels, metamagic, spell schools et al was pretty conductive to feeling like an actual wizard messing with strange truths from the gnosis of creation.
None of that is Vancian as such, which refers exclusively to the "wizards forget spells when they cast them" bit. 4E is more Vancian because it has Vancian fighters!

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
The Oberoni Fallacy, or argument, normally is paraphrased something like this:

‘There is no problem; inconsistency, loophole or mechanical issue with (whatever rule) because you can always Rule 0 the problem; inconsistency, loophole or mechanical issue.’

On the face of it this appears to be shallow and illogical statement; ignoring or changing something does not make it ‘disappear’ and we would agree with that position. However, as this ‘fallacy’ is used so often I shall explore it further by looking at the meaning and application of this in-depth, first with ‘Rule 0'.

`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-

Rule 0, sometimes referred to as the Golden Rule of Gaming states;
‘The arbiter of the rules may change, bend, break or add any rule he thinks will improve game-play.’

We will assume is needed for two main reasons:
1) To aid in moving the story along.
2) To see to it that the mechanics of the game are not bogged down by trivialities.

As the judge of in-game action the Storyteller or Game Master needs to have final say on what happens mechanically and thematically.



“There is no problem . . . ”

This statement when applied to a rule is an opinion no matter how many people agree with it or the inverse, ‘there is a problem . . . ’, no matter how its worded, in the end it is an opinion, and nothing more. Herein lies the rub, or beginning of the problem, discussion, or argument.

Just as any logical path started from illogic breaks down . . . any logical path started from an assumption cannot be fact. Breaking that first part down we see that there is the assumption that there is a problem and someone is disagreeing with that assumption.

What is defined as a problem? There are too many to list; it would literally be infinite. The argument here started with the assumption that this issue presents itself as a problem to a majority.

We assume that the originator has decided to address the issue with some discussion; we feel safe in that assumption because whatever opinion that led to the countering opinion of ‘there is no problem . . . ’, was made known and therefore open to debate in the first place.


“ . . . you can always Rule 0 the problem.”

This, however you want to argue it, is true. ‘Rule 0' is such a broad term in the first place that is can be applied to anything. If there is a perceived problem one direct method of resolving it is the application of rule zero. In fact, we would go so far as to say that it is the only reasonablely available response, if there is to be a response, to the problem in the first place.


Now when put together they change;
‘There is no problem because you can always Rule 0 the problem.’


The statement is conceptually true, there is no problem, once its been corrected, in this case with the application of Rule 0; in this case the person may believe that he has happened upon an application of Rule 0 that they approve of or believe they will happen upon one soon.

Taking the statement literally, declaring that there was never a problem in the first place because one can Rule 0 it away is absurd.

But again, problems are subjective, one who makes that statement may think of this ’problem’ as not deserving of the title, as so minor that it didn’t interrupt game-play in any way.
Perhaps a clearer statement in line with the idea would be, ‘there is no ‘problem’, the solution is so simple and not deserving any time devoted to it.’

We say this because as it stands the statement that ‘it was never a problem in the first place because it’s gone now’ is absurd and we have not yet encountered a gamer who would take such an illogical stand in anything other than a philosophical exercise.

Which brings me to our point in writing this in the first place.

`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-

The Oberoni Fallacy is philosophical tangent, an idea, a supposition; a tool for exploring the psyche of the gamer and the game itself not an argument or counter to an argument. If someone makes a statement similar to the idea expressed my the Oberoni Fallacy it is just that; a statement because we assume that people are not ignorant.

What we have seen in the past is a few individuals using the Fallacy as a fallback, a reason for discontinuing the discussion or as part an accusation of making excuses for the problem.
The problem being discussed is obviously a problem to someone and stating an opinion that you think its not a problem or can be dealt with easily does not necessarily follow that the issue was acceptable.


It’s a matter of time from what we have seen, the issue exists, everyone can see that it does, even if they may disagree with how much of an issue it is, but it is there for all to see. Excusing the problem in the present situation doesn’t necessarily follow excusing the fact that the problem occurred in the first place, only a realization that one cannot fix the problem in the past and people are currently aware of it. It goes without saying even. But when people say that which goes without saying it can be insulting.

`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-`-

Note: This work will be posted in many forums and several blogs and is not directed at any specific person or group. We will not respond with proofs or past examples because this is just an observation and dialog on what I have seen and most of the discussions I speak of are best left undisturbed.

~This will be a continuing work and will change as new issues and opinions come to light, and we welcome any all discussion relating, however tangential, to topic~

Authors;
Anonymous
ATHMASTER
Ajax Torbin
Enders Legacy
THULSA DOOM

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
Last week I witnessed the most anarchic HfL playtest to date, a journey of debauchery and violence in old world native America. Loose, wild, and free to make gore, we waded onto the badly woven rope-bridge of cultural identity and tried to tell the story of four banished tribes people. It was the Lord of the Flies of roleplaying sessions.

We had Fleet As Monkey, the Arrogant Brave (Eoin), Hiding Turkey, the Cowardly Unwilling-mistress (Susan), Dancing Fox, the Abusive Wiseman (Daniel), and Soaring Bear, the Obsessive Buffalo Whisperer (ahem).

The Frame

Setting: Pre-colonial native America, many landscapes, people of the forest, brave journey
Adversary: Chief Running Hawk
Gore Threshold: 5
Connection: Family, last in line
Drop-Off/Objective: Bend in the River / Mountain of the Eagle God
Checkpoint 1: Pass through the Lands of the Raven
Checkpoint 2: Desecrate the Tomb of the Ancestors
Checkpoint 3: Kidnap the Dying High Priest

The road to hell is paved...

The game opened wonderfully. It seemed like there was a story to tell as Soaring Bear and Fleet As Monkey pecked for distinction, while Hiding Turkey lay against a tree, bruised from her lover's temper, and the old Wiseman chewed on a mysterious "dreamroot." The premise was simple. These four heroes, the last legs of the incumbent ruling family, were to be summoned for their execution. They decided to flee the tribe before they were called, and to make a journey to the great Eagle God to seek the oracle and speak with the spirits of old. Etc.

Checkpoint 1, the long story short: Race through the Lands of the Raven. Great forests. Frothing rivers. Buffalo charges.

But after that, filth and bile spewed forth from the narrative like a bad vomit. We murdered an old sage, showered in his warm blood—spilled from the arteries at his feet—and while the blood caked on our faces, we tripped out for three weeks on the poison of the local toads.

This went on for ages. I mean it. We wanted it to stop, but we kept failing Challenges. Over and over, all our characters were covered in more poo poo, piss and blood, drinking more and more poison, and doing more and more killing, until finally we could escape, strung out, quivering and stinking like dying dogs.

Kill the Pig, Bash him in!

All sense of our dysfunctionality was abandoned when Hiding Turkey slaughtered the children of the High Priestess before her, made her watch, and then slit her throat like a pig. To persuade the High Priest to co-operate, the Wiseman tore open the High Priest's innards and pulled out his liver—while he was still breathing—spitting "you're of no more loving use to us now, you dying, old, loving cocksucker."

I'm not a religious man, but Jesus Christ! You know the worst part? It was loving hilarious. We were all crying with laughter, slapping our thighs, wheezing. It was horrific. Writing this I practically hear ourselves beating out a dreadful chant "Kill the pig! Cut his throat! Kill the pig! Bash him in!"

We got our comeuppance. Hiding Turkey had her head removed after trying to blackmail a tribal warrior with a piece of woven propaganda (a tapestry of a man with a tiny cock), Fleet As Monkey got unexpectedly savaged by a crocodile, Dancing Fox got a tomahawk embedded in his skull after challenging Chief Running Hawk to a duel, and finally Soaring Bear was peppered with javelins. He dropped to his knees, half of his head burnt off, poo poo and blood dangling off him in threads, laughing and screaming in total, debauched madness. Ghaaaarlllguglh...

Feedback

All good fun. But sinister and unadulterated. There were more Fucks, Cocks, Shits and Cunts in this game than in any other we've played so far. It's rare that you get to play a game that is so dreadful that you get to offend yourself.

Oligopsony
May 17, 2007
Play a Paladin of Blibdoolpoolp if:
  • you want to look like a frog

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Oligopsony
May 17, 2007

Red_Mage posted:

I am the moon.

Geostationary Rod.
What are these? I'm curious.