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So now that I got you to read the thread the actual idea is only peripherally related. Lots of people are gonna think I am a heretic, a democrat, republican or some equally unsavory thing, but why not? Martial classes work fine in heroic and for most of paragon, but why the heck does some dumb jock get to do as much damage as a dude raining meteors down on your head? I mean after a little bit you can only swing a sword so fast and so hard before magic is pretty much involved. I think the idea was that you took demigod as a martial character and thus were more then mortal, but a +2 to Str doesn't make you Hercules. So why not? I think the next game I run will ban the pansy martial classes so that the real rear end kickers get a chance to shine.
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Apr 14, 2009 20:39
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Ok let's start this with what any game system for fantasy is for me. It's a game system that at it's most basic level allows us to create and play characters in a fantasy world. So for any edition of D&D to be doing it's basic job you need a system that allows you room to make your heroes yours, either creating your own unique heroes or your own take on iconic heroes from literature. The character creation process needs flexibility. And that is what 4th ed lacks so badly it's well silly. Lets look at Iconic Fighters for a second and see which ones you can't make. Make me a knight. A guy as comfortable in the saddle as he is on his feet. You know like Lancelot. Looking at the PHB for such a set I skills I find a problem right off....there is no lance in the weapon table....WTF....no lance. Ok well in the skill section surely I can take riding....nope, no ridng either. Ok well feats, surely I can take riding feats to make my knight....nope no riding feets. Ok, ok enough there has to be mounted combat somewhere in DMG, low and behold there is, a full well nearly full 2 pages on it....and its bland and generally worried about as much about how to award XP as it is combat, and my knight fights as well from the saddle as your cleric because I can't be skilled at it, and nor can you be...... Ok giving up the mounted knight lets try another pretty basic fighter type. The two weapon fighter, you know like Fafhrd or Little John with his staff. Well look at that, I can't do that either. Fighters only come in two flavors, great weapon or sword and board. Want to make a warrior with a bow like a Robin Hood...nope he has to be a ranger. Only problem is someone forgot to complete the aligment chart, Robin Hood can't be Chaotic, unless you think he's evil. Because neither good nor "unaligned" folk can be chaotic. Want a tyrant who builds his empire under a brutal set of laws....sorry no lawful Evil either. So basically they took a cut of alignments and forgot the rest, can't say that makes any sense to me at all. Ok so no archer, no knight, no two weapon fighters. Lets just make perhaps the most iconic fantasy character of them all, Conan....nope, can't do that, no barbarian class at all. 1st ed didn't have one either in the PHB...but it was written before Arnold made his first appearance as our favorite loin clothed wearing sword nut, so I guess you can't fault them for covering an iconic figure that wasn't actually iconic yet. How about Robin hood, the prince of thieves as well a thief, or rogue if you prefer. Well nope, there is no rogue build for a bow wielding hero....two weapon thief maybe, nope, not one of them either. Well how about rangers. Well I have my Drizzt clone like editions 2, 3 and 3.5, my Legolas clone like 3.5. But no flexibility to make my personal favorite, the one the 1st ed ranger was more based on Strider. In 3 and 3.5 the system was flexible enough that even though I was forced to pick up the skills of Drizzt or Legolas, I could spend my feats to give me the skills set of Strider. This ed isn't flexible at all, and you can't deviate from the 2 and only 2 builds covered for each class in your PHB. Spells, this is D&D and every game of D&D has spells. Well not this one, no spells, no long list of spells for your wizard can chose from they don't exist any more. .... Is this really D&D without spells .... without Knights .... without Conan ..... without Robin Hood .... without Strider .... without Druids, Bards, gnomes, half-orcs, monks, illusionists, assassins, LE, LN, CN, CG, barbarians, or can we say it again SPELLS. These things that I have listed as missing are not extras, I should not be waiting for splat books to be printed to cover them, they should be part of the very core of the game. Every fan of 4ed who is trying to defend it, or sell it in some cases, reminds us of the massive 300 pages in the PHB, and for all that, they didn't cover the very basics. They didn't cover as much as any other PHB written, they failed to make a complete book. But worse then them obviously trying to rip us off, worse then even that, they failed to make a system that has the flexibility to allow us to be creative in our game. We can't just build our heroes however we like, we either fit a pair of choices or we don't exist. That is the biggest and most damning flaw of the system, even if we agree it's D&D a system that has no flexibility in the end isn't a very good system. Sure it maybe smooth for combat, sure adventure building maybe easy, but if you can't be creative in the very basic building of your heroes does it really matter. D&D or not, a lack of flexibility to this degree is a fatal flaw. I was bought the core books by a friend, we have gamed together since '93, I am still playing a campainge that started in '88 with other friends, and I have been playing some form of D&D since '78. I've skipped one edition because I felt it didn't improve the game but I would not call it a broken edition just one that failed to make an improvement. I played others and enjoyed them all. But this edition doesn't only not improve the game, it frankly isn't the game. It isn't even a complete game as they clearly left too much out of the PHB either due to incompentance or greed in an effort to force us to buy splat books later. It isn't even at it's core a good game system, because it so shoehorns your character you don't have the freedom to build characters with a touch of you in them. Thanks for reading my rant, I just had to say this and get it off my chest. My hopes are that they scrap the edition or begin re-examing it asap, because as is, it will not grow the game. It will loose traditionists, creative players and DMS, and those who simply love D&D.
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Apr 14, 2009 23:27
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shammy, pally
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Apr 15, 2009 01:17
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If one of my paladin players started referring to himself as a charadin or retadin or peloradin or whatever I'd probably kick him out of the game~
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Apr 15, 2009 01:24
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Sorry dude I'm pretty much the perfect roleplayer. My opinions own, I own. I'll accept your money via Paypal.
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Apr 15, 2009 03:14
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This is really a reply to the thread more then just Rudsill but I would start with his claim that he doesn't see the connection between WoW and D&D. Here's a simply connection. In D&D using PHB1 you have two fighter builds, great weapon and weapon and shield. The Fighter is a defender by roll. And I am told in a splat book they put out there is a fighter who uses two weapons so that would be third build. 3 builds, primary class use is as a defender, two builds add in a bit of the striker roll to the class. That's D&D, now for WoW. In WoW the Warrior has three trees (builds if you like). Arms, Fury, and Protection. Arms focuses on two handed weapons, fury on dual wielding weapons, and protection on weapon and shield. The basic roll of a Warrior is that of a tank. Arms and Fury allow for DPS builds. Even more generally there are three rolls in WoW. Tank, Healer, and DPS In D&D now there are 4 rolls. Defender, Leader, Striker, and Controller. The idea of rolls is very taken from MMOs, maybe not WoW but as it is the current top MMO it still applies. Aggro control also is a very MMO concept, which 4ed has taken. Maybe you don't see the similarities, but I think a closer look does indicate some do exist, prehaps more then some. 4ed seems so restrictive. You build your fighter and have only 2 build choices without buying a splat book. Take your 3.5 book out, build a fighter. I bet you can build a fighter who uses a bow as his primary weapon, rides a horse with a lance as his, uses a two hander, goes for the classic sword and board build, or uses two weapons. All just in the 3.5 PHB, heck you could combine them at higher levels going with a horse archer, a duel weapon guy who can effective whip out a bow and engage very effectively at range one you have enough feats to do both well. But 4ed with it's book you have two options and that's it. Heck want a duel wielding cleric, you can do that in 3.5 with just the PHB if you really want it. Not so in 4e, not sure you ever will get that either. Now I've played since 1977, mostly started just with the 1ed books bought at Toy's R Us. I have some pre-1st ed stuff still around but not much. But since 1st ed the game has changed a great deal. I can't say I enjoyed 2nd ed much, I really didn't think it improved the game not that is was bad but it didn't add enough to make it worth my time to bother with it. I bought some of the splat from it, but over all didn't get much into it. And I totally agree 3ed was completely a new game system, but it left the feel of the game alone to me. I took a year to finally switch over to it, slowly at first but the game system was so well thoughout so well put together I truly saw it as the next generation of D&D. Now it has problems, I still dislike how it handles multiclassing, I still prefer the 1ed bard and all but I liked it enough to switch because of how much good it did have. To me 4ed doesn't do that, doesn't even come close. I feel like I am playing a game of maybe starfleet battles, not exactly but a board game with pieces to move not characters to play. More about combat less about everything else. But even combat becomes do this, then this then this, ok next fight rinse and repeat, ok save your daily might need it against the boss...(the idea of a boss is also very MMOish). Wrong feel for me. Anyway to me even worse is the cost. 2 PHBs already, 3 DMGs very likely, power sources books needed to give your classes any flexibility, equipments books needed because of how lacking in it the PHB1 is, and MMs that are little more then stat sheets (kind of like the back of the 1ed DMG...). Some defenders of 4ed make the claim WToC hates splat books, and there is no core in 4ed....those two seem like such a scam to me. First WoTC sells a set of three books it calls them core books so clearly they are stating there is a core, and second they have produced a handful of splat books already, so I am not seeing the hate. Only thing I see is these splat books are more needed then ever because of how little the "core" set covers compared to previous editions and because of how inflexible the "core" classes are without splat. But again the defenders cry out, "Oh verily but thou canst procure thee download freely and it is very good we do declare". It is, but you need to pay a fee to be able to use it past level 3, or get updates as they come. That is a what yearly/monthly fee? (I don't know if I wanted to pay a re-occuring fee I would play an MMO so frankly I saw that and I just quit it.) 4ed does come off as a real money grab with little value for each dollar to me, I am not against companys making money, but this reaches to me the scam level. P. you are at it again. Let's just take a quick peek at how you take a statement by Clinton Kimmes that says : "The reason that most people that hate 4th ed D&D is that is it not D&D." But you do your twisting it to mean: "1 - most people hate 4E". Clearly not what he meant. He makes no claim everyone hates 4ed only that for those that do the reason is it's not D&D. His wording isn't perfect (and who's is) but most fair readers do have the ability to discern it. Over all like all games and edition 4e will have fanboys, I use that term not as a put down but as a term we all understand. I am a fanboy of editions 1-3.5 (well 2 wasn't my cup but it wasn't bad either). I call myself a fanboy of D&D and I don't see $ed as D&D....oops sorry 4ed, yes I think 4ed is really a big scam money wise as well. I see the book on dragons has a new race and new rituals, guess all the races wont be in just the many PHBs and setting books(based on peoples reveiw of the book, no I am not buying more splat for this edition). All that said there are Fanboys, every game and every edition has them. They help drive sales, they help promote their favorite products, and they can be good for the game. But some will go overboard, ignore the flaws and use deception and flames to hide them. Every game has that type too, it isn't special to 4ed. Don't dislike 4ed because some of it's supporters go overboard in it's defense. There are to me plenty of reasons to dislike 4ed, but it's few thuggish fanboys shouldn't be one. (And no I am not saying all of 4eds fanboys are thuggish, just in case you were confused, I am saying some are most are not.)
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Apr 15, 2009 19:10
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I have been a gamer for 30 years, I started with the White Box from TSR and never gave up on the game. And here's my review of the latest offering from WotC. In a nutshell, this is a decent system for a RPG, but it does not have the full flavor that their two previous offerings had(3 and 3.5). First the bad: It looks to be streamlined for fast combat and looks more like a computer game and a lot less than the classic game I know. 3 and 3.5 were excellent additions to an easy to learn system, such as make all rolls high, make an easy to understand skill system and mostly force the players to think about character development. This alone made the basic fighter my favorite class, rouges more than carbon copy pickpockets and casters enough options that no two were ever alike. From my preview of the 4ed PHB it is like designing a character for Diablo II rather than a PnP. So many generic races and classes gone, and world specific types instituted to be cannon. Gygax would be miffed. And where are the spells? 15hp 1st level Wizards? Half Orcs are gone again guys, sorry but you can only play in odd editions see you again in 5th Ed. And a retreat to five alignments? The White Box originally had three, so that's two more personality types than when I started, and four less than yesterday. Frontal lobotomies for everyone! Why have people think about morality and freewill? No more schools of magic, so Illusionists and the rest are banished back to the broom closet again. The Monster Manual has the old faves that most people would create for themselves if not present. Oddballs not in favor with the chief editors are gone, replaced with what they like. Not shocking, and pretty much on target for this system. Ebberon and D&D Online: Ebberon flavored. The DMG is where the system is outlined, and you can see where it is set up to be more like a PnP computer game. You toss out your offense, throw up your defense and see what happens. A little elemental variety, and volia! you have combat. It also seems to be a lot more miniatures oriented, I think they are taking a page from Heroscape and Games Workshop and want to get into the miniatures thing a big time. Magic items are not described except for aftifacts, regular items are in the PHB. So much for tossing out a cursed item kids. And the prices are extremely reflective of a computer hack and slash(excuse me RPG) game than ever before, with prices going up by a rough order of magnitude system in many cases(e.g.: 100 gp for normal 1000 for +1 10000 for +2 etc.) so sell that +(whatever) quick and pad the party out with +(whatever -1), and be almost as effective. So much for special stuff that is not unique(should be sold to players on gold outlined cards and only useable by them, nayh).
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Apr 15, 2009 19:19
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This is just something I'm thinking about for fun. First off, dragons in my setting are able to transform into humanoid forms. They often do this to mate with humans and make dragonborn. OK, so lets say I were to set up a skill challenge where one of the party members must seduce the dragon. Complications: The dragon's friend is a kobold priestess who hangs around and constantly talks about herself. Somebody needs to be a wingman (or wingwoman) and get her out of the way. Also, there is a powerful wizard who is also trying to seduce the dragon. You need to get him out of the picture or he will cockblock (or cuntbunt) other suitors (or suitresses?) The wizards demonic familiar is his wingman. You can seduce the dragon with only four successful rolls. However, if her friend is hanging around, the difficulty of those rolls will be increased. A wingman can seduce the friend with four successful rolls. The wizard will also increase the difficulty of the rolls, so you need to shoot him down. You can scare him off or humiliate him with four successful rolls. The wizard will not approach the dragon and her friend alone. If you can distract his familiar somehow, the wizard will go sit alone in the corner. Special rewards are given if somebody seduces the wizard or his familiar. Your thoughts?
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Apr 16, 2009 19:02
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Ah, so this is where the teenagers go when they're not on the WotC boards! Crazy Jerome, someone disagreeing with you is not "hitting a nerve", But some adults are posting here, clearly, so I'll ignore the "ZOMG fail fag 4E FTW!!!" posts and address them. The OP's question was about 4E limiting roleplaying, not whether you enjoy playing 4E or not. macD21, above, alluded to a key reason that many people find 4E limits roleplaying: it encourages players to substitute interesting character builds for interesting characterisation. One of the basic elements of an engaging story is having protagonists that the audience can identify with. I find that 4E makes the PCs so distant, in their superheroic "otherness", that they seem more like action figures, to be manipulated from a distance, than like living, breathing story characters. A cursed half-devil who shoots bolts of energy from his hands is exotic just for being what it is. But making an ordinary dwarf with minimal stats likeable and believable is a roleplaying challenge. Also, I don't accept the argument that, because a PC in previous editions could be killed by an orc and a 4E PC can killed if you throw orcs a him til he dies, there is no difference in PC power between editions. Nor am I convinced that starting PCs at a de facto higher level than previous editions has no implications for roleplaying, since having the normal limitations of a mortal motivates characterisation. Because previous editions made it easier to die - like a normal human - players took elaborate and interesting measures to avoid risky combats and keep themselves safe. Many people consider that boring as hell. Others, like myself, consider it an exciting challenge, and find that it's often those aspects of adventuring that contribute most to PC development. What's most frustrating is that I would have loved 4E when I was fifteen, just like you, but it didn't exist. As you get more experienced, you'll find you want to flesh your characters out a bit more. When you get to that stage you might conclude that 4E was limiting that by substituting core rules for your imagination. But it's something you'll have to come to by yourself. Best of luck and happy gaming.
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Apr 17, 2009 19:08
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I love that combat-oriented thread so much. I see where you are coming from. Good point. When some people talk about combat orientation, they are often debating whether or not the game can focus on story rather than on combat. It is true that D&D can focus on story rather than on combat. HOWEVER, the problem with D&D (and CoCd20) is that I CANNOT design a non-combat oriented characer according to the rules. Here is a real life example that I recently ran into with D&D: I wanted to create a sage-type character. His legs were crippled in his boyhood. He grew up to be a hermetic academic. Never in his life was he in a fight. Never in his life did he use a weapon or his fists. He has no experience with combat period. Moreover, he will not enter into combat (because he's crippled/weak/etc). Now, how would I go about creating this character in D&D? Well, you can't do it with the PHB; that's for sure! I was determined, though, so I cracked open my DMG. I saw the Expert class, and my eyes lit up! Then I saw the "Base Attack Bonus Progession" for the Expert. Then I was sad (because I don't want a BAB). My sage character would not have a base attack bonus progression because he never has and never will have any experience with combat. So, there you go. I came up with what I felt was an interesting character concept, but D&D3E denied me. It smacked me down, and said, "You can't play that type of character in this game. If you want to play an Expert, you must have a BAB!" Lame. A similar thing happened in d20 CoC. I wanted to play an non-violent priest. However, the CoC rules state that my BAB will increase as the game goes on. This doesn't make any sense. If my priest doesn't enter combat situations, then how will his BAB increase? Lame. I have not seen the Chaosium CoC. Does it have the same flaw as d20CoC? Why couldn't D&D3E have went with a skill-based system as did Chivalry and Sorcery? In C&S, I can create the crippled sage I mentioned above because characters are not forced to take combat skills, or improve in combat (a la BAB). In C&S, I can create just about any type of character I can imagine. Jody Butt
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Apr 19, 2009 21:05
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That site just makes me sad. I can't even bring myself to make fun of it, I just get depressed.
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Apr 22, 2009 08:12
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Hmm, remember when dnd was dnd and not magic? Its what I hate about 4th ed that they've turned it into such a mechanicly finicky game. Like, I can summon a crackling pillar of lightning that lashes out at my enemies, but it wont hit them if we force them into the square? Or any number of other things that has them beside the square... This is upsetting. I understand that its a different game, but right now we're at a level where semantics is the basis of play, taking prescedence over roleplaying world immersion. I don't know why they would want this to be a really awful soft control spell, so I assume its paraphrased. But its possible it was too powerful, in this powergaming system and they revised it into obsolescence as R&D has often done
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Apr 24, 2009 03:43
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Seftir posted:Actual question: In 4th if you slide/push/pull someone through an area effect it doesn't hit them? I'm actually surprised if that's true. Other people corrected the dude and made fun of him.
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Apr 24, 2009 05:29
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Remember when Blue Rose came out? Yeah. I bought it too. My recent trip to San Diego has got me thinking about dusting off and actually running this abomination of a D&D one shot My Little Pegasus. Only now I'd make the Kobold's all 1 hp minions and have the epic boss fight be with Kareena backed up by a skeleton archer named Hank, two zombies named Bobby and Sheila respectively, and have Diana chained up at Kareena's feet. Critique this info dump of exposition: Quote: Ten centuries of peace have been shattered by the arrival of the Kareena and Eric the Chosen of Tiamat and their army of Kobolds. In three short months, the army has laid siege to the Dream Castle, destroyed the Rainbow bridge to Butterfly Island, pillaged the villages of the Dream valley, assassinated Queen Rosedust, and captured her adopted human daughter Diana. Fool hardy as ever, Lucky the Pony has set off from the sanctuary of the Flutter valley in the dead of night to rescue Diana all by himself. Handsome and stupid he will likely get himself captured by the forces of Kareena and put everyone lives at risk. Together your ragged rebel herd of Pegasus ponies, and magical ponies, led by Princess pony Twinkle Bloom must brave the Rollypolly Wood to save Lucky and rescue Diana from the clutches of Kareena before all of Ponyland is destroyed. Even though the adventure was designed with Blue Rose in mind, I think it would be even better as a 3.5 game. I started redesigning the pregens to be three Pegasus Pony psionic characters (psychoportationist, psychic warrior, and a soul knife for that Unicorn action), plus a bard who can cast Glitterdust, a Princess Pony marshal, and a healer. Lucky is now a ditzy Paladin of Freedom stud. Although really, playing a healer might not be as fun as playing a Paladin of Freedom stud in a party of mares. Might have to work on that angle. The bad guys are all taken from the D&D cartoon and made METAL! Positing that Venger's sister Kareena became a servant of Tiamat and with Eric's help slew Venger...etc. So are you scared that somebody mixed Heavy Metal, My Little Pony, the D&D Cartoon and Blue Rose together?
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Apr 27, 2009 11:36
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lastexyle posted:I unironically agree with most of this, should I be worried? 
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Apr 29, 2009 04:21
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With apologies to Tolkien, Peter Jackson, and GM of the Rings, written as if D&D came first: OD&D: No idea--but maybe ... "What were Gandalf and Thorin doing before the Battle of Five Armies? Let's play that. Thorin better have some help ..." Basic/Expert: "Now that Gandalf (version 7) and Thorin (version 3) have made it past 5th level, we'll go pick up Bilbo and hope his luck holds long enough for him to catch up... drat, party got separated I bet the GM gave him that ring of invisibility because he is still only 2nd level..." RC/Later BECMI: "You know, if we start everyone at 7th level, I bet Gandalf, Thorin, and Bilbo can make it to the Misty Mountains before things really get rough. And I've got this great idea for a followup campaign... I wonder if we should use the optional level limits, and how does an Ent-draught affect halflings, anyway? ..." 1st ed: "Finally, Gandalf is a Fighter/MU without adapting the elf! This is what I wanted all along... Since Thorin didn't make it, I thought I'd try out that "Strider" idea I had, and look what we have here. But I want an elf princess for a follower... Whatever, I'm tired of trying to get Bilbo past name level--let me go with a descendant with some charisma..." 2nd ed: " I'll take the drat ring to the volcano, but you can't make me like it ... No one said you had to like it, but -- would Legolas and Gimli please stop that counting thing, it's distracting me... How many bonus XP do I get for Strider letting those undead thingys out of their oath? None, you have to let them do it. drat. Yeah, but at least with all that fiat, Moria was quick. That's fine, but I'm afraid Shelob is from Sigil. If you call me 'berk' one more time, I swear to Thor that I'll slap you into next week. Hey, it wasn't me that changed names--Strider was a lot easier to remember..." 3rd ed: "See, we had this alternate universe where Sauron was a lich. How did the giant eagle get involved? Well, it may say "wizard" in the background, but we thought Gandalf worked better as a druid, especially with that Merlin retro vibe we were going for... What I don't understand is why you spent so much time in Rohan? We were waiting on an equipment upgrade. Ahh, of course. You should have seen what happend after Legolas got a few levels in that prestige class..." 3.5 ed: "Let me get this straight, Pippen is a half-something or another bard? Yeah, I've been watching Lost, and I thought the spells explained how I got out of trouble that I kept getting into. Ok, fine, so where did Aragorn get those moves? BoNS, I should have known. That leaves only one question, why is Gimli now a Minotaur? Hey, you were the one who wanted us to start at 15th level with the house ruled ELAs. It's not our fault that large is in charge ... Note to self, in future campaigns Boromir and Psionic Handbook are not phrases allowed in the same county..." 4th ed: " (chorus) What do you mean that Gandalf, Thorin, and Bilbo have to start at 1st level! I'm not playing Gandalf, versions 73-82. Try it and see, guys. Well, I've got to admit that Thorin is a pretty tough dude now... How did you build Elrond, I don't remember seeing that horse thingy in the powers? (GM smiles.) ... I really thought Sting would be a little shinier ... Now we finally know what Gandalf and Thorin were doing before the Battle of Five Armies--failing a skill challenge..."
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May 2, 2009 08:38
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lastexyle posted:Yeah... no way in hell am I going to loving pay for that. The character builder is one of the best deals in gaming and you're writing it off because you don't get $30 worth of new content immediately?
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May 6, 2009 03:55
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I don't get that either because you can pay for one month and have access to every book released to date. For $8.
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May 6, 2009 06:13
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Today I remembered John Biles' parody homebrew, Senshi: The Merchandising, and I started brainstorming how'd you go about something like for nWOD. So here's my pitch for an nWOD magical girl game. Feel free to post any rule suggestions, modifications, angry ranting about how something screws over the players and blasphemes against the core idea of nWOD, and character, plot, setting, and antagonist ideas. ------------------------ Dreams are nonsense. Dreams are nothing more than the chaotic recycling of memories as your synapses randomly fire. There are no messages to be heard, no insights to be found, no monsters to be fought. Between you and your dreams is nothing more than the confusion of your everyday life. They have no meaning, not even that you want to gently caress your mother. At least, that's what everybody else thinks. You know better. Your dreams are memories of a better time. A perfect time, when all was right with the world and magic was real. Not Atlantis or Camelot or even the fifties, but a time of fairy tales, the happily ever after built by noble princes and wise queens. And as this perfect vision comes to your in your dreams, as it becomes so real you could touch it, you see yourself. A beautiful vision of your own dreams realized, the perfect person you want to be. And that is when you Blossom, from an ordinary girl into a Magical Princess. It always happens differently. For some, guides show them the way -- mysterious spirits and familiars who teach them about their powers. Others come into their birthright suddenly, like blazing stars confronted with their own mystic might. Others yet may find ancient artifacts or stumble upon great magics or strange fantastic truths that awaken the light within them. And even few find the magic of their Princess self seeping into their lives in terrifying ways and must take the first steps down the road of truth themselves. But once they come into their power, it is not long before a Princess attracts the attention of others. This can be the most trying time, for they learn that their dreams aren't special -- there are many like them and no one knows what their relationship to each other might be. But there are a few things they can agree on. Firstly, there was once a Kingdom and each of them was a personage of great power. And second, this Kingdom fell in the Cataclycism, when a terrible force rent it asunder and left the world as a shadow of itself. What this Catacylcism was, no one is sure, but some can manage a guess. Maybe the new Princess herself has seen them: the night things, the demons, the goblins and ogres and trolls that can haunt any shadow. Hollow, monstrous beasts who corrupt people's lives and crush their ideals, then feasting on the misery they leave in their wake. And worse, the alien men and women who control and direct them, working towards some inscrutable plan. Enemies who speak of dark cities, labyrinth worlds, endless storms, and living hells just beyond the pale of reality, where their Lords look down on the joyous potential of our world and speak the words... There is a wise Princess, whom some call a Queen and others a Priestess, and she has said, "This is not a war to win. This is not a battle to be fought with blood and steel. This is survival. What we must do is not die for a lost Kingdom, but live in its name. Live, you bright soldiers of love and joy, live in your dreams and in the people around you and spread your magic to all their hearts. For what our enemies desire, what we must not let them have, is not our lives, but our hearts and minds. We are the defenders not of humanity, but the right to be human." This is the life of a Magical Princess. To enrich the world around her, to drive out those who would strip life of its joy and farm its pain. To make people smile and watch them love. They have seen the best of all possible universes, and they know it is first and foremost built of hope. And what they hope, what they must believe, is that one day they will see its return. The Kingdom come, Its will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Princess: The Fading -- a storyteller game of fighting fear. +++++++ The primary mechanic of Princess is transformation. Each princess is an everyday girl with the ability to summon up the powers of her past life in the Kingdom. Normally, this transformation is obvious (in which case its description is purely thematic and up to the player), but inconspicuous transformations can be purchases at the cost of limiting abilities. Each transformation is defined by a point buy, which players use to purchase increased attributes, skills, merits, and access to a charm tree. The amount of points available, as well as maximum bonus, merit levels, and charms available, is defined by the characters Inner Light. Inner Light is the 'supernatural power' stat and also controls the amount of Magic a character has, the 'supernatural currency'. As Inner Light increases, the more likely a character is to succumb to Delusions (see below). Magic is expended for a character to transform and to use charms. In addition, a character uses Magic as a damage soak. As a character takes damage, they lose Magic -- bashing removes one point, lethal removes two, and aggrevated removes five. Damage soaked with magic does not get marked in health boxes. Characters only do this in their transformed states, and damage removed in their normal states is not removed when they transform. When a character has no more magic, they de-transform and cannot transform until Magic is regained. Magic is generated when a character fulfills the duties of their Inspiration. Belief is the morality stat. This encompasses not only normal Morality, but also includes the character's dedication to their own ideals and ambitions, as well as respect for others' ideals, ambitions, and happiness. A Belief 10 princess is motivated to pursue her dreams, but never at the cost of her ideals, and is a constant source of encouragement and moral reinforcement to those around her. A Belief 0 princess is utterly hopeless, has no standard she holds herself to, and can't help herself, let alone others. High Belief adds bonuses to charm usage and magic recovery, while low belief impairs them -- the reverse is true, however, for breaking out of delusions. Delusions are the siren call for a princess to live in her dreams. The visions they receive of the Kingdom are powerful and weak minds, faced with such a utopia, may very well reject reality. As long as she transforms on a weekly basis, a princess must roll against Delusion any time she sleeps beneath a full moon or during what the ST rules as significant circumstances for the character. When threatened with Delusions, a character must make a number successes on an extended resolve roll any determined by their level of Inner Light (with modifiers due to their Belief and for their skill as Meditation). If the first roll is successful, the character does not enter Delusion. Otherwise, they make a new roll everyday they are under Delusion and add it to the successes from previous rolls. Breaking out of Delusion forces them to make a Belief degeneration roll with a penalty equal to their Inner Light. While under Delusion, a princess become so engrossed with her visions of the Kingdom that she ignores her duties to the here and now. She can still function in normal society, but will believe that she is as perfect as she sees herself in the Kingdom and becomes so engrossed in her own supposed success that she ignores the people around her. Nor can she access her Magic to transform in this state, although she won't she a reason to. Breaking Delusion is always a traumatic experience. Magical Princesses are separated into five Inspirations, based on their visions of the Kingdom. Furthermore, they have the option of joining five Camaraderies, ideologies that define the use of their powers. Inspirations: This is the princess' basic nature, the archetype they fulfill and the ideal they strive for. Inspirations define the charms and merits they can access while transformed, as well as their duties for regaining Magic. Champions - These are the warrior princesses. In the modern world, the aspire to be great athletics, providers, and defenders of the innocent. Their powers focus on battle and strength. Troubadours - The princesses of the arts. They aspire to be performers, painters, writers, and artful craftswomen. Their powers focus on beautiful and joy. Surgeons - The princess physicians. They aspire to be doctors, counselors, and the like. Their powers focus on providing aid and comfort. Graces - The saintly princesses. They only wish to see the best come out in others. Their powers focus on inspiration and clarity. Wizards - The shadow princesses. They hope to find and commune with the supernatural and the mystic, even in the increasingly modern world. Their powers focus on spirits and ghosts, although they may also possess powers of luck and precognition. Camaraderies: This is the princess' view on how her powers should be used. Membership in camaraderies provide a character with training in skill specialties and dots in the merit Mentor. However, a princess needn't join one and can define her mission for herself. The Shining Guard -- Soldiers of the Guard have take an oath to first and foremost protect our world from alien incursion, especially by the dream eaters. To them, there is no higher duty than the defense of everyday humans. Seekers on the Road -- The seekers hope to track down the truth behind the Kingdom and piece together the Princesses' lost history. For them, their powers only provoke more questions. The Invisible Court -- As the Courtiers see things, they were the nobility of the Kingdom and by right are the nobility of the modern world, as well. They see no flaw in worrying about their own dazzling careers, but hold themselves to high standards of obligation to their communities. Muses of the Century -- The Muses believe the Kingdom is always with us and they are the living signs of that. They hope to use their powers to awaken people to magic and the glory around them. Builders of the Kingdom -- The Builders say the Kingdom is not a past, but a future. They were given their powers to create that future, brick by brick, and guide humanity down the correct path. Fallen Comrades: These are princesses who have wandered from the path of dreams and now represent a threat not only to their peers, but to the everyday world as well. The Lonely Crowns - Those who have convinced themselves that they are the one true nobility of the Kingdom and that all other princesses are usurpers or impostors. They can appear in a variety of ways -- as either determined courts or lone megalomaniacs, cutting a bloody swath through their enemies or carefully concealing their true nature as they plot their friend's downfall. They come from all inspirations and all camaraderies, giving them a wide range of possible powers. The only certainty with the lonely crowns is that they represent a constant possibility for all magical princesses. Souls of Dust - All princess who has lost Belief. Her dreams may be dead, but her powers live on, becoming strange and twisted in the process. These unfortunates still pursue their goals, but now with underhanded cynicism and dark pits where their hearts should be. They completely betray the Kingdom and everything it stands for; for them, it was all a sweet lie that clouded them to their true potential. Many magical princesses find the dust souls terrifying, not only as dark reflections as themselves, but as a possibility that haunts all their futures.
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May 7, 2009 09:16
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Bonus link for oWoD players Also I could quote just about everything posted in it so here's the thread for the nWoD mahou shoujo stuff: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=444323 Mikan fucked around with this message at 09:20 on May 7, 2009 |
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May 7, 2009 09:17
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It also completely misses the point of 4e. There's nothing a traditional samurai can do that you can't already represent with existing classes.
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May 12, 2009 08:46
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Hi. I'm Johnny Tek - self-proclaimed Defender of Earth. I am currently setting up a new professional game master business. I'm going to be offering a replacement option for my clients that order DnD 4e sessions and don't like dying in the game. I want to save some time on this (lots of work to do) so if you would throw your ideas and feedback at this, it would be much appreciated. Here's the replacement option (optional): Heroic Death Throes A character is allowed an unlimited number of death saving throws and does not die unless the circumstances absolutely prevent survival (jumping into lava, getting sliced in half, etc.). When a character makes a death saving throw and fails, a roll on the following list must be made. When you are reduced to 0 hit points or less, you remain conscious but can not take any actions except free actions. When you stabilize, you return to 0 hit points but can only perform a single action per turn until your hit points become 1 or more. If you take damage again, you are dying again until you stabilize. Roll a dX when you've failed a death saving throw. 1. You keep your eyes open for the enemy's attack, warning your comrade in the nick of time. You can give an ally a +2 bonus to all defenses against an attack as an immediate interrupt until the start of your next turn. 2. You pray to your deity for aid. You regain 1 healing surge if you have no healing surges left. 3. You call out to encourage your allies to stand their ground. Your allies regain hit points equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier (minimum 1). 4. You call to your allies for help. All allies within 5 squares can shift 1 square towards you. I need more. I want at least 20 for the final list. If you can help me get this done faster, it would be much appreciated. __________________ STORYTELLER SOLUTIONS Solutions for your Entertainment http://storyteller-solutions.webs.com Current Sponsors: Longtooth Studios LLC
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May 16, 2009 05:26
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He has a sponsor.
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May 16, 2009 06:09
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RagnarokAngel posted:Is this a "4e is too easy" joke No. This is Johnny Tek, saviour of the Universe and Professional DM, the dude quoted in this thread over and over
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May 16, 2009 08:30
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Seems like the tin-foil hat wearing crazies were right. WotC did make D&D into a collectible card/miniatures game. And they stole an idea from the GW playbook: constant rules update requiring you to keep buying and buying. I'm really impressed at the way they handled it, too. First in 3e they change the game so that it's pretty much impossible to play without using miniatures. Then they slowly "rebrand" all of the creatures from myths and stories from their original names like goblin or troll into names that they can claim as IP, such as "Goblin skulker" giving them grounds to go after all those pesky third party manufactures. Then as soon as they think the franchise has converted as much of the market into miniatures gamers as it's going to they launch 4E. Knowing that if they let the cat out of the bag - that D&D now requires cards - too soon the desertions to other games will be disastrous they wait until the game has been out for a while and people have been playing using fan made play aids, then offer official cards while sending out cease and desist letters. Then they put power cards in with the miniatures that contain Kewl pOWERzs that can only be obtained by buying the miniatures. Lastly, instead of the PHB, DMG, and MM being the core books they devise a system where all-new "core books" will be released every year. And the transition from a "couple of books and dice game" into a profit maximization product line is complete! Well done WotC!
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May 17, 2009 09:39
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in retrospect posts like that are almost too easy and too common for grognards.txt
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May 17, 2009 09:40
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For those of you who don't know, I'm Johnny Tek, a NYC gamer who decided to open a side business while job hunting. I tried something similar earlier this year during a period of grief and personal tragedy but that had no chance of success and I stopped it before it went too far. The current business has a smarter design that could succeed. It offers game master services for hire as well as children's entertainment performance storytelling (later this month). I'll be posting my progress on online forums and on my business site's blog. This thread will be a chronicle of the business. Professional game mastering is a much unexplored concept with few people experienced with it. I've met one. A few others have posted on the forum threads I posted while brainstorming for this business. There are a few sites for businesses like Roleplay Workshop and Epic Vacations to see how people profit from game mastering. Brainstorming is pretty much done. I know what I need to set things up. My goal is to have at least 1 client by the end of this month and to build that up to at least 1 per week by the end of the next month. I made a lot of mistakes getting to this point and I've been deservedly mocked for it. I've learned a lot from those mistakes and I've come out of it a stronger person as well as a stronger gamer. The business is still being set up. The full array of services won't be up until the 23rd. I've got a few possible leads that I'll follow up on by the end of the month. I need the following to have a chance of making this work. After all the feedback, even though this business focuses on a niche market, it does have potential for success. 1. Recommendations and testimonials - I'll be offering free demos to credited game writers/designers to get their feedback and quotes. When I'm ready, I may try volunteering storytelling performances for schools and childcare centers to get their recommendations. 2. Writing Credits - I recently passed a writing challenge from a game pdf publisher and within a month I may have published credits. 3. Community Support - Without feedback and advice from the local gaming community I could never pull this off. I've met a lot of great gaming veterans who have shared their experiences with me. 4. Business Networking - By partnering with and gaining contacts with other businesses I can gain invaluable knowledge about starting up a business as well as improve the value of my services. I may also be able to trade services to gain resources I can't otherwise afford. 5. Pay-Worthy Service - I'd become active in the local gaming meetups to polish my skills. I've got enough materials for a great gaming setup. My writing will continue to improve and gain credibility as I submit more material for publishing. 6. Client Incentive - I'd accepted that the convenience of my gaming services alone was not enough of a sell. Through partnering with other businesses I can create a special client incentive package of coupons and discounts from the partnered businesses. Basic necessities/luxuries are the best for this. For example, a gourmet deli in Manhattan is interested in the idea of exchanging coupons ($5 off $10+ purchases) for advertisement and promotion. People have to eat anyway, and most of my potential clients would be in Manhattan, where such delis are popular places to buy meals. The idea is to eventually make it so that a client can save more money hiring for my gaming services than not hiring for them. In this case the bad economy works in my favor. 7. Room for Growth - If I can get enough client incentive, I can probably get a lot of clients. I can expand the business as an agency for game masters and professional storytellers and perhaps other forms of entertainment. I can hire writers, web designers, and game designers to expand the business in many different forms. A couple of examples are making a text RPG like Sryth and becoming a gaming event organization. 8. Good Advertising - Exploring possible leads, setting up online ads, and free demos for recommendations is the plan for now. If the business gets to a point where it can grow and afford more expenses, the business networking I've done so far has gotten me into contact with representatives of marketing companies so I can probably use that. 9. Flexibility - The hours are flexible so I can seek other forms of income (a regular job and game writing). I don't have to sit around in one place all day waiting for customers. I can add or adapt services as the situation demands. There are a variety of different services to be hired rather than just one. 10. Low Upkeep - The website host is free. I have all the gaming materials I need and I could borrow or trade for things I want. I can use the coupons and discounts I'll get from partnering with other businesses to reduce my business and living costs. Client Incentive is probably the most important add-on so far. It could make paid sessions effectively free or even profitable for some clients' budgets and encourage repeat business. This is something that almost no free games offer. I probably won't start getting clients until I've started building the incentive package. I should have something by the end of next week. The package will keep growing as time progresses. I'm still setting up the services but it's starting to look good. I recently changed my "About Us" photo and added some pics of my gaming materials. There's also a link to WotC's free pdf download of the quick start game play rules for DnD 4e for beginners that I approach with my services. If I don't expand the business, then after taxes (assuming I make enough this year to be taxed), I probably won't make much but a sideline income is possible. That's the main goal. __________________ STORYTELLER SOLUTIONS Solutions for your Entertainment http://storyteller-solutions.webs.com Current Sponsors: Longtooth Studios LLC
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May 19, 2009 08:00
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 Johnny Tek (Ki Hyun Mok) is a Korean American aspiring actor/writer currently residing in Bayside, New York. In late April of 2009, he started Storyteller Solutions, a business that makes full use of his talents. Having been introduced to tabletop role-playing games as a child by his older brother (Dr. Ki Tae Mok M.D.), Johnny Tek has over a decade of experience with storytelling and storytelling games. Including a knack for writing and training as a manga artist, his talents offer a superior gaming and storytelling experience. Johnny Tek is an active member of the New York City Dungeons and Dragons Meetup Group and is certified by the Role-Playing Game Association (RPGA) as a judge and event organizer. Johnny Tek was a volunteer children's Sunday School teacher and children's Summer Activities assistant at the Grace Presbyterian Church in Bayside, New York from 2002-2007.
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May 19, 2009 08:02
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Kayumi posted:But he offers it at a PROFESSIONAL level with WRITING CREDITS to his name surely that means something. Wait a minute, I have writing credits. I'm going to start charging for the maptool sessions.
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May 19, 2009 12:46
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Please please don't get into a serious discussion of how or why this DM business would/wouldn't work. There's a 30 page thread on RPGnet if you want to do that.
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May 19, 2009 20:02
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The General posted:gently caress, could have sworn I had removed that before I posted. Post ruined. Ignore it. Wait, that wasn't a copy/paste? You wrote it yourself?
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May 20, 2009 14:30
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Not sure if this is the right place for this...but I don't want to offend anybody in the real game threads... OK, just have to get this off my chest.. WTF is it with rules lawyers and prestige classes... Let me start with Rules Lawyers...this is a freaking game...no one gives a rat's rear end about what stacks with what, or conditions modifiers or any other crap...that is the DM's JOB to tell you that you may or may not do something or what the mods are...if the DM says that you can't have padded armor and chainmail and plate mail on at the same time...well then you CAN'T...if they say you can, then congrats... Seriously, half of the freaking "crunchy bits" that people love in WOTC stuff is just rules lawyering crap...every feat is just a skill...or a way to jack up the rules... rapid reload, quick draw, track, dual weapons....feats?? Whatever...-4 for this, +2 for that, another -2 and a minus 5 and 3 of those and 9 of those...and who cares...pick a drat number, that is the modifier and just go with it. Combat is NOT a MATH TEST/Kim's game...it takes too drat LOOOOOOOONG and if they think that 4E is going to be any easier...24 freaking zombies...ok, so an average game session of 4-6 hours will be what one combat? No Thank You! Next complaint...Prestige Classes. Is Truck Driver a Prestige Class, what about Long Distance Truck Driver, or Hazardous Material Truck Driver, or Military Truck Driver?? How about Samurai, or Ninja or Pirate..OR are they just Core Classes that have specific skills like, oh, I don't know a fighter with...Profession Samurai, Ride Horse...and maybe Knowledge Philosophy...or how about a Rogue with Tumbling, Hide, Sneak and a penchant for wearing black...or maybe a fighter with Knowledge Navigate, Profession Pirate, Rope Use, Swim and maybe the Feat of Wear Bandana and a Magical Eye Patch that gives a +1 to Intimidate Lawful creatures with a WIS of 6 or higher on Wednesdays after sundown? GAH...It's a GAME!!!
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May 20, 2009 14:31
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Riidi WW posted:i googled it and apparently he wrote it himself lol Yeah, I put it into google too and didn't see it anywhere else. Yes, grognards.txt is where people who don't like the newer editions post. The rest of TGD is kinda biased toward 3.5 and 4e (especially 4e!) so this is basically a safe zone for those of us who don't want to play babby's first MMO with dice.
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May 20, 2009 14:34
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 Yes, you failed.
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May 20, 2009 16:36
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I absolutely love the misplaced hatred so many have for a 3.5 Wizard. Almost as much as the inanity of the CharOP forum at WotC. I flat out can't figure out why you or your DM would be so WILLFULLY stupid. Seriously? All I can tell you with no lie, is that while anybody NOT a magic user went off and got to play for an hour at time IRL, while my so called broken Wizard got to sit on her rear end for up to 2 hours at a time IRL. 3.5's mantra is "what is good for the gander is good for the goose", repeat after me...."what is good for the gander is good the goose" (Magic users) Fighter types ignore all the conditionals unless the DM is explicitly going after them (not likely, given the second axiom in ALL RPGS is "geek the mage". Excuse me for knowing this and excuse you for not being quick enough to understand it and use it also. Why use a save or die spell on a Fighter when it was a known fact that you better contain the Wizard/Cleric/Druid in that order to end the battle in less than 34.456 rounds, it seemed obvious you could if you actually focused your primary attacks on them. Why are you using you end game spells on a Fighter? You have movement use it! If the Fighter has an INT above say 5 they should be easily convinced to direct their attacks at the Wizard so that such movement is lessened/deflected/stopped....just maybe? What I find very interesting about RPG forums is that they have a large segment that cannot look beyond the numbers just like Sabermetric fans via baseball. The ONE bad/good thing about 4.0 is the marking ability. It is bad because it is classic video game/MMO. It is good because the Fighter is allowed to do what he supposed to do, prevent the Mage from being geeked. The real issue is why does the Mage have to be made a gelding/or worse, if a female, just to satisfy Conan the Barbarian fans? Why do I have to be satisfied with a game built for 12 year old boys? And told it is normal to "swallow"? I just ask because I am a girl in the middle and have no patience for the WoTC boards and those that seem to post there. Talk about being mean for no reason, unhelpful to new people, being over the top defensive of a mere RPG...and so on. I am thinking a lot of this has to do with the actual naming conventions. For the first time in DnD history 3.0/3.5 actually let you play fantasy archtype wizards. Problem is RPGer's did not what that, they wanted Specialists.....Elemental Mages, Chaos/Wild Mages, Sorcerers, magic has physical cost mages (Defilers/Preservers), and so on. All of them make for a better story and a better RPG to be honest. The downside is that the ability to impose limits were removed from the player and DM and made canon for the 12 year video game players that were the actual market. We already knew the obvious without it being forced on us like some Computer aided Character Builder, MMO, video game via Nintendo 360 or WotC if you subscribe to the service. But why force it?
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May 21, 2009 19:33
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Why do I have to be satisfied with a game built for 12 year old boys? And told it is normal to "swallow"?
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May 21, 2009 19:33
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It's a great thread, too - the Pathfinder developer guy making passive agressive swipes at people for not liking the game, that girl making weirder and weirder posts, and (most surprisingly) a number of RPGnet posters actually making decent points.
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May 22, 2009 10:42
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http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=453838
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May 22, 2009 10:59
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That's the true horror of RPGnet. It's 90% godawful poo poo, but that useful 10% of the site is pretty useful.
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May 23, 2009 13:26
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shotgunbadger posted:Wait what are G:tT, L:tT, and P:tF? The last one is most likely Princess: The Fading. So the others are probably similar creepy RPGnet WoD settings.
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May 27, 2009 22:00
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