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yea ok posted:goldberg
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Sep 6, 2019 02:05
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Gooooooooooooldbeeeeeeeeeerg. Also Sting. People forget that at one time he was the most over babyface in the business.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:54
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Blast Fantasto posted:I mean if you're opening it to preexisting songs, it's no contest: iirc kaze ni nare was written at minoru suzuki's request, he really liked the singer and had always wanted a theme by her
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Sep 6, 2019 03:19
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Gonna go ahead and agree that Goldberg and Sting would have been huge gets and, property booked, could have made Invasion work a lot better. JJ would have been a terrible get, but would have saved us all from TNA ever existing.
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Sep 6, 2019 05:06
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DDP came significantly later, right? Same with Flair iirc. I don't remember either of them in the Invasion angle.
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Sep 6, 2019 05:07
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He was on the wcw team in the main event at the PPV Invasion
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Sep 6, 2019 05:11
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Oh. Man, I only remember him doing the stalker thing to Undertaker's wife. Was that before or after? Edit: I just looked it up, that was all the same angle. My memory is failing. Hellblazer187 fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 05:26
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I love this so much and absolutely hate that it’s seemingly unavailable in better quality
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Sep 6, 2019 05:47
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yeah it's a shame that video isn't hi-res but i downloaded that theme from this link and i'm going to put it into cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiJ_azsdX14
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Sep 6, 2019 05:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBSZew9A4GQ
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Sep 6, 2019 06:00
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Lunatic Sledge posted:iirc kaze ni nare was written at minoru suzuki's request, he really liked the singer and had always wanted a theme by her To be specific, she was his favorite pop star when he was a teenager and deciding/training to become a wrestler and declared to his fellow trainees that one day he'd be a big enough star she'd write his entrance music Which, as reality shows, happened and then she played him to the ring at Wrestle Kingdom 7 then she cried when Suzuki posted a video of US fans KAZE NI NARE-ing on twitter because she never expected the song to actually reach that far that it would become this global rallying cry then she co-wrote the Suzuki-gun faction theme and then made a 30th anniversary remix of Kaze Ni Nare pretty sure the only thing that could make Suzuki's life any better is if he woke up tomorrow and the world was just One Piece
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Sep 6, 2019 06:48
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The Cameo posted:pretty sure the only thing that could make Suzuki's life any better is if he woke up tomorrow and the world was just One Piece Hell, same.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:00
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Hellblazer187 posted:Oh. Man, I only remember him doing the stalker thing to Undertaker's wife. Was that before or after? Heck, DDP was the first WCW guy you could actually call a "star" to appear in the WWF during the Invasion! Before him we got, I believe, Lance Storm, Hugh Morrus, and Stacy Kiebler. 
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Sep 6, 2019 13:55
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Booker T
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Sep 6, 2019 14:26
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Hedgehog Pie posted:Heck, DDP was the first WCW guy you could actually call a "star" to appear in the WWF during the Invasion! Yeah, for some reason I was thinking the stalker angle and the motivational speaker thing with Christian was a few years later. Surprising he was only there for a year or so.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:38
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ecavalli posted:I've got a hypothetical question about The Invasion. So, you're going off the idea that they wouldn't be able to get any of the headliners right off the bat, but they could have picked up some of them a few months later. Thing is, they pretty much did this, bringing in Flair right after the Invasion, the nWo a few months later, and then Scott Steiner and Goldberg. And one of the critical problems with the WCW Invasion was that the initial wave was so underwhelming that they really couldn't let it play out for a few more months so they could sign those guys. So I think even if they did a better job of booking the angle, it would have been really tough to get that initial wave over with the crowd. They really needed to book DDP better, and they really needed Goldberg or at least Sting to be on the roster from day one so that WCW had a leader who was a bigger draw than Booker T. So, regarding the long-term career part - I think Sting would have been better the long-term guy. (Goldberg would have been better short-term, especially if they could have had him from Day One of the Invasion and put him head-to-head with Austin, and honestly that might have been the only story that could have really sold the Invasion. Goldberg had limited ability in the ring and on the mic, but that wouldn't matter too much, you could have had a lot of six-man tag matches where guys like Booker could have carried the match for him, and you could have had Shane/DDP/whoever do most of the promo work before handing the mic to Goldberg for a "YOU'RE NEXT!" mic drop etc.) Sting could actually wrestle, still had a lot in the tank, and if he had been willing to sign with WWE he could have probably had a great career there for the next decade. Goldberg, we saw what happened when he was actually in WWE a couple of years later, he got a brief run with the title and then left after the infamous Lesnar match. So I don't think Goldberg would have hung around all that long either way.
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Sep 6, 2019 14:53
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Hello folks. I poked around the OPs of likely-looking threads but didn't find this one; what's the best way to watch arbitrary WWE content going back a ways? I'm just dipping my toe a little and I've been pointed towards some helpful starter matches, but that's based on 4 year old info. I think there was some kind of WWE Network online thing? Does that still exist and is it still the best option? I'm in the UK, though I could VPN if necessary.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:46
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Jaded Burnout posted:Hello folks. I poked around the OPs of likely-looking threads but didn't find this one; what's the best way to watch arbitrary WWE content going back a ways? I'm just dipping my toe a little and I've been pointed towards some helpful starter matches, but that's based on 4 year old info. I think there was some kind of WWE Network online thing? Does that still exist and is it still the best option? I'm in the UK, though I could VPN if necessary. You can get the WWE network in the uk which is kinda like Netflix for WWE but I would highly recommend watching any wrestling outside of WWE.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:49
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:You can get the WWE network in the uk which is kinda like Netflix for WWE Alright, thanks. UnlimitedSpessmans posted:but I would highly recommend watching any wrestling outside of WWE. The podcast I'm following along with (How 2 Wrestling) is very aware that WWE isn't the be all and end all, but they've stated that they're starting there because it's the best place for context on the history and culture of wrestling now. I'm sure they'll get to e.g. Japanese stuff later on. You know, like if someone's just getting into beer for the first time you maybe don't hand them a hoppy IPA, or at least say "here's a pint of stella, and here's why this other stuff is better".
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Sep 6, 2019 15:53
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Jaded Burnout posted:Alright, thanks. That's fair enough I would also suggest checking out wrestlesplania which is a similar and really good podcast
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Sep 6, 2019 15:55
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What if it wasn't Kane?
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Sep 6, 2019 15:55
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Jaded Burnout posted:Hello folks. I poked around the OPs of likely-looking threads but didn't find this one; what's the best way to watch arbitrary WWE content going back a ways? I'm just dipping my toe a little and I've been pointed towards some helpful starter matches, but that's based on 4 year old info. I think there was some kind of WWE Network online thing? Does that still exist and is it still the best option? I'm in the UK, though I could VPN if necessary. To answer your first question, WWE Network is available in the UK. https://watch.wwe.com/ to sign up, the first month is free, and there genuinely is an unbelievably amount of content on there. Obviously every modern WWE Pay Per View, but also all the old WCW PPVs, and then just lots of episodes of old TV, from WWF, ECW, WCW, NWA, UWF, WCCW, SMW. It's also as far as these things go a pretty easy service to use. That said, there are serious moral qualms when it comes to giving money to the WWE. So if you are interested in following contemporary wrestling there are plenty of good places to start. Depending on what you're into. I wish WWE were a less reprehensible company so I could justify subbing to the Network again just for the archival content, it really is untouchable. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 15:57
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rujasu posted:So, you're going off the idea that they wouldn't be able to get any of the headliners right off the bat, but they could have picked up some of them a few months later. Thing is, they pretty much did this, bringing in Flair right after the Invasion, the nWo a few months later, and then Scott Steiner and Goldberg. And one of the critical problems with the WCW Invasion was that the initial wave was so underwhelming that they really couldn't let it play out for a few more months so they could sign those guys. So I think even if they did a better job of booking the angle, it would have been really tough to get that initial wave over with the crowd. They really needed to book DDP better, and they really needed Goldberg or at least Sting to be on the roster from day one so that WCW had a leader who was a bigger draw than Booker T. Goldberg being limited is a bit overplayed, he was fair to good-ish. He didn't succeed in his first run since they sabotaged him from the beginning.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:15
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forkboy84 posted:That said, there are serious moral qualms when it comes to giving money to the WWE. So if you are interested in following contemporary wrestling there are plenty of good places to start. Depending on what you're into. I wish WWE were a less reprehensible company so I could justify subbing to the Network again just for the archival content, it really is untouchable.  noted. A month should be plenty of time to decide whether I want to continue, at which point I can do some research on that side of it.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:15
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Jaded Burnout posted:
The research is pretty easy. They are currently doing propaganda work for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:16
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Do whatever you would like to do but my chief advice is to never say anything positive about wwe on here unless it's in the wwe thread where you're kind of safe.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:24
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Alright understood, and I probably won't sign up past the trial, but please bear in mind that it's a lot easier to hold that moral high ground when you've grown up watching this stuff and/or have already absorbed most or all of what you'd want to see from the archives anyway, presumably paying some money to the very same organisation over the years, who I'm sure didn't just start being assholes in 2019. Vince never struck me as a particularly pleasant person even from a distance, and I'm not saying anything nice about WWE, I have absolutely no opinion on them, but they seemingly hold the keys to the bulk of the cultural history for the entire sport as it is today.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:12
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rujasu posted:They really needed to book DDP better, and they really needed Goldberg or at least Sting to be on the roster from day one so that WCW had a leader who was a bigger draw than Booker T. Yeah, like, I think Booker was over with WCW fans just for being such a trooper and for sticking around so long; he was solid in-ring and he could play a decent scrappy underdog character. The problem was that, as far as I can remember it, he was a really bland babyface champion who (to begin with) really needed someone like Shane to speak for him. He made a big splash in WWF by interfering in the King of the Ring main event and then scissor kicking Vince in MSG the next night on Raw, but the week (or two?) after that gave us the infamous Buff match where he was ultimately clowned on by Austin and Angle. Then, on the following Smackdown, he had a much less well-remembered match with DDP, which ended with him getting beaten up not only by DDP but the entire WCW roster. So he just looked like a massive geek of a world champion who wasn't even respected by his own colleagues. By the time the next Raw came around, Vince had decided that WCW as a face invading force or separate brand was never going to work, so all of WCW including Booker were abruptly turned heel (I think, up until this point, only DDP was explicitly heel). This did make Booker into a much more colourful and entertaining character in the long run, but with these hypotheticals would he have ever been up there in the Invasion or WWE as a whole? So I agree entirely. Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 17:15
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Randaconda posted:Goldberg being limited is a bit overplayed, he was fair to good-ish. He didn't succeed in his first run since they sabotaged him from the beginning. I mean, I liked Goldberg, but I don't know how you could say he wasn't limited. He only had a handful of moves that weren't the Spear and Jackhammer. Even in his prime, he rarely ever wrestled long or complex matches. He had a great look, he had a great entrance, and he could do a few things really well, so you could book around his limitations, but they were definitely there. On the mic, again, what he could do, he could do well, but you were pretty much getting one type of promo out of him and that was it. There's a reason Goldberg was the hottest act in the business for a year or two, and he could have been just as hot in WWE... probably also for a year or two. When you say he didn't succeed in his first run, you mean that stint in WWE where he won the World Heavyweight Title and then was gone a year later? They definitely could have made better use of him, but how do you think he was "sabotaged from the beginning"? Hedgehog Pie posted:Yeah, like, I think Booker was over with WCW fans just for being such a trooper and for sticking around so long; he was solid in-ring and he could play a decent scrappy underdog character. The problem was that, as far as I can remember it, he was a really bland babyface champion who (to begin with) really needed someone like Shane to speak for him. He made a big splash in WWF by interfering in the King of the Ring main event and then scissor kicking Vince in MSG the next night on Raw, but the week (or two?) after that gave us the infamous Buff match where he was ultimately clowned on by Austin and Angle. Then, on the following Smackdown, he had a much less well-remembered match with DDP, which ended with him getting beaten up not only by DDP but the entire WCW roster. So he just looked like a massive geek of a world champion who wasn't even respected by his own colleagues. I like Booker T, and he was over, but yeah, he was way over his head as the face of WCW. Good in-ring, good charisma, kinda bland on the mic and WWE was/is all about the mic. Also, he was booked well as a mid-carder in WCW, then booked horribly when Russo came in, even when he did get to be a main-eventer. WCW tried to make him their version of The Rock, he was extremely miscast in that role (this is the story of everyone during Russo's WCW) and I can kinda see why WWE then had no idea how to use him. But yeah, he was basically used as comic relief in WWE. Meanwhile DDP coming in as a stalker was another huge swing-and-a-miss. He was literally the only guy in that version of WCW who could have been anything close to a front-man. He had been successful as a face and as a heel, they could have gone either way, but instead they had him play a completely different character from who he was in WCW.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:32
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rujasu posted:
HHH flat out said before Goldberg arrived that they weren't going to have him squashing people every week.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:38
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rujasu posted:I mean, I liked Goldberg, but I don't know how you could say he wasn't limited. He only had a handful of moves that weren't the Spear and Jackhammer. Even in his prime, he rarely ever wrestled long or complex matches. He had a great look, he had a great entrance, and he could do a few things really well, so you could book around his limitations, but they were definitely there. On the mic, again, what he could do, he could do well, but you were pretty much getting one type of promo out of him and that was it. There's a reason Goldberg was the hottest act in the business for a year or two, and he could have been just as hot in WWE... probably also for a year or two. Goldberg was still hella over until WCW died, and would have been even more over if anybody there knew their rear end from a hole in the ground. He was no more limited in the ring than somebody like Hogan, but Hogan(who admittedly was better on the mic) was always booked a lot better.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:48
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Davros1 posted:HHH flat out said before Goldberg arrived that they weren't going to have him squashing people every week. Gotta love Vince paying people a shitload of money then making drat sure he gets no return on his investment, and he does it over and over. Shockingly, Goldberg was booked a million times better during his second run.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:49
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Is there a place to watch old Stampede television? Hopefully not the WWE Network but I guess I could get a free month and cancel
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Sep 6, 2019 18:03
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Randaconda posted:Gotta love Vince paying people a shitload of money then making drat sure he gets no return on his investment, and he does it over and over. Vince McMahon will spend $100 to cost someone he doesn't like $101. He's a spiteful, hate-filled, black hearted piece of poo poo with no functioning moral compass or ability to empathize with other people, and he keeps tripping over his own failures into more money because capitalism is a broken system.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:09
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rujasu posted:I mean, I liked Goldberg, but I don't know how you could say he wasn't limited. He only had a handful of moves that weren't the Spear and Jackhammer. Even in his prime, he rarely ever wrestled long or complex matches. He had a great look, he had a great entrance, and he could do a few things really well, so you could book around his limitations, but they were definitely there. On the mic, again, what he could do, he could do well, but you were pretty much getting one type of promo out of him and that was it. There's a reason Goldberg was the hottest act in the business for a year or two, and he could have been just as hot in WWE... probably also for a year or two. He was sabotaged because they signed him to work a certain number of dates and immediately asked him to do more. When he refused they stooged him off to the locker room to build resentment. So they sabotaged him there. Then they had him work a lot of boring long HHH style main events instead of Goldberg main events and basically wasted all of his value outside of the Rock matches and the Lesnar match. The Lesnar match obviously sucked but it had a lot of interest when it was booked and even the day of the show.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:13
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I remember thinking at one point that the Backlash match with The Rock should've been a classic Goldberg squash, like the later Lesnar match ended up being, especially since Rock was returning to Hollywood soon afterwards. I'm not sure how I feel now, I haven't seen the match in ages. At least there were worse people for Goldberg to feud with, as he soon found out anyway, like DDP and Booker before him. I've watched the Wrestlemania match with Lesnar so many times because it's just such a hilarious fiasco and my brain keeps insisting that it wasn't as bad as I remember it being (it is, but in sort of a good way). I was sad when I heard that WWE edited out the crowd going mental for a Hogan cosplayer rather than anything that was happening in the ring.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:41
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Thanks everyone for the info on Goldberg's WWE stint.Randaconda posted:Goldberg was still hella over until WCW died, and would have been even more over if anybody there knew their rear end from a hole in the ground. He was no more limited in the ring than somebody like Hogan, but Hogan(who admittedly was better on the mic) was always booked a lot better. Goldberg was similar to Hogan in a lot of ways. I'd describe both as "limited" in the ring, and agree that Hogan was worlds better on the mic. Goldberg didn't really need to be at that level on the mic - he rarely spoke in his early days at WCW, and that actually worked really well for him. I agree that he was booked terribly at times, and he was over with the crowd, but even with better booking, I don't think he would have wanted to stick around for the next 10 years, and I'm not sure he would have been able to remain at that level for 10 years. Remember, even Hogan eventually got stale and had to reinvent himself as nWo Hollywood Hogan to stay relevant. Goldberg couldn't have done that. But again, I agree he was a one-of-a-kind talent and could have been used better.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:42
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MassRafTer posted:boring long HHH style main events
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Sep 6, 2019 18:46
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Jaded Burnout posted:Alright understood, and I probably won't sign up past the trial, but please bear in mind that it's a lot easier to hold that moral high ground when you've grown up watching this stuff and/or have already absorbed most or all of what you'd want to see from the archives anyway, presumably paying some money to the very same organisation over the years, who I'm sure didn't just start being assholes in 2019. Yeah, WWE owns the rights to almost every major wrestling US group from the 80s & 90s. I have subbed to the Network in the past, entirely to watch old Raw & Nitro and PPVs and it is great fun. I probably will again in the future despite it all. And it's certainly value for money at $9.99 a month. Far higher percentage of content I'd want to watch on there than on Netflix personally. Just feel it's worth noting that it is a deeply unpleasant company (but then it's a pretty unpleasant business, or at least it used to be. Rapists and paedophiles and murderers and conmen and a whole lot of people dead before their time) but I also don't want to lean in too hard, to put you off. Because wrestling is great fun at its roots. For example, I subscribe to New Japan World. It has a fraction of the content for basically the same price as WWE Network, so if you sub to NJ World at any point you are really doing it to watch contemporary New Japan. Which is honestly great and has totally reinvigorated my own joy for wrestling to a level I'd not experienced since I was a kid renting tapes from Blockbuster of Wrestlemania 6. But the archival stuff is much more limited, you're not getting many full shows, from before the service launched (2015? 2016? I forget), just individual matches, and usually with Japanese commentary. Which is a barrier to entry even if not a huge one necessarily. But yeah, just enjoy it and if you've questions or anything, just keep asking! Low Desert Punk posted:Is there a place to watch old Stampede television? Hopefully not the WWE Network but I guess I could get a free month and cancel So WWE owns the Stampede rights but Bret Hart owns the rights to all the Bret Hart Stampede matches so it's kind of in a limbo. So they aren't on the Network, there's matches up but the full TV isn't.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:47
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Coaaab posted:Ooh, new question: Which active wrestlers today could work an NWA cosplay match (the kind that Triple H only thinks he's paying tribute to) and actually have it both be good & get over? Cody does HHH matches a thousand times better than HHH ever has
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Sep 6, 2019 19:10
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