|
They could make it totally different with a young Khan if they wanted. Just have them be fighting Klingons when they find him and then they team up against the loving Klingons but then Khan tries to take over the ship and they toss him and oh no he ends up leading the loving Klingons for the third act!
|
#
¿
May 3, 2012 21:10
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 08:48 |
|
|
Astroman posted:It does bring up an interesting point though, would OT Kirk and the gang be back in 1985 of this timeline? I'd say no, because what future could they go back to? Like Old Spock, their timeline is locked out. Somebody else would have to have invented transparent aluminum, Gillian is still back in the 20th century and probably dies well before WWIII. I think they used the time-travel stuff to set everything up like a remake where they're allowed to change whatever they want without people complaining. They're not going to be touching other star trek stuff unless it's to get some nostalgia power.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 7, 2012 16:10
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Star Trek has always been about pulpy, two-fisted space adventures, starring Kirk, where they go around gawking at weird poo poo and occasionally loving or punching it. The utopianism of the original series is overhyped - like they allowed a Ruskie on the crew, and will drop the occasional line about how they eliminated poverty (but not how they eliminated poverty, natch). That's not the focus of the show. The show's actually pretty committed to being politically radical in confronting a lot of '60s culture. It's not just that they had a Russian, but that there was an episode where a black dude disagreed with Spock and was right and everyone respected him just as much as Spock. There's another one where two characters are in danger, a black man and a white woman, and it's the white woman who dies to demonstrate the danger of the situation--after that, the crew work together to sve the black man. It looks hamfisted and stupid to you because you have the benefit of 40 years of hindsight to diagnose colorblind racism as stupid, but the show absolutely has a political agenda more radical than anything you'd see on tv today in terms of challenging America's horrible culture. A big part of that has to do with a strong desire to make peace and establish an equitable solution for everyone, like the episode where they find a rock creature killing miners because the miners are mining its eggs--they negotiate a lasting peace and go out of their way to preserve lives. It loving floors me how obliviously sexist every frame is in light of that, though.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 02:29
|
|
|
Strange Matter posted:Are you saying that Nero personifies Star Trek: Nemesis? I'm trying to put the pieces together on that, and all I can come across is that that Nero is a vain, backwards and self-destructive remnant of another reality, whom the protagonists have to execute. And by doing so they not only preserve their reality but lay down its corner stones by establishing the crew. He's the shambling zombie remains of the old franchise, full of weird flourishes nobody in the new movie can understand because you need to study 40 years of other media to follow (borg technology, Romulan politics, time travel, feud with Spock, exciting adventure with Captain Picard etc--all told in tie-in comic books you need to buy ahead of time). They have to kill him to go on and live their own lives because he threatens to kill star trek with his over-complicated backstory and premise. I guess because the franchise was so weighted down with backstory that it was driving all the viewers away and thus dying by degrees. I think that Nemesis was lovely because it was totally rambling and unfocussed and dark without having a lot to say
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 03:56
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:It really is a relative thing- in a lot of sci-fi movies of the time you'd have the Woman Archaeologist give up her career to marry the hero and be a housewife. There is an episode where that happens, though. There's this lady diplomat who needs to get back to the ship because she has some space disease and the shuttle they're on crashes into this planet where an energy blob is keeping some guy eternally young. It's a lady energy blob who's hot for the dude and he's grossed out because it's not a human lady. Meanwhile, the diplomat is about to die and only wishes she had time for love instead of pursuing a career. She says something like, "I was so busy being a diplomat, I never found the time to be a woman..." Then, Spock gets the great idea of having the energy blob inhabit her body, cure her disease, and gently caress the stranded dude. The dying lady agrees and says it would fix all her regrets to become a meat puppet so some guy can get over his space racism. It's way hosed up.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 05:16
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:While that's all true, the focus of the series is on all the rock monsters and sentient nebulae as the new others to be dealt with. The 'colourblind' equality of the federation serves as a pregiven premise/backdrop to the action - which is all about presenting a baseline 'humanity' in conflict with those who would deviate from it. That's why the sexism is not really too surprising. I agree that no episode is about celebrating a post-racial socialist utopia, but just because it's the premise doesn't mean it's lazily constructed or incidental to the show. There's a very specific social world that the show presents as normal, but that doesn't mean it's inconsistent with or in competition with the adventure plot of a lot of episodes.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 05:21
|
|
|
Tars Tarkas posted:Is it really space racism if you don't want to gently caress an energy blob? McCoy criticizes him for the archaic belief that it's gross to be seduced by an energy blob. He's all like, "You fool! Can't you see she loves you? It doesn't matter what species she is!" The guy is a famous space explorer who was lost in space generations ago, and the energy blob kept him eternally young. His refusal to date her is the one example of his out-of-date prejudices, but one that I would probably call sensible.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 13:18
|
|
|
Warm und Fuzzy posted:I loved TNG growing up, but I don't want to turn it into something it wasn't. The cast fell in line with a well established template of multiculturalism at the time. Even then the stereotypes were a little uncomfortable: the black bouncer, the lesbian security chief, the female empathy officer. At the time, multiculturalism was widely reviled and an easy boogeyman to be knocked down.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 9, 2012 23:05
|
|
|
CPFortest posted:Yeah, and both of those episodes were really dumb. What's the other one?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2013 23:25
|
|
|
Supercar Gautier posted:Is it canon that Kirk was always a fan of the Beastie Boys, or is that only an element of the new timeline? Also, are the Star Trek references in Beastie Boys songs replaced with references to some other show? If so, what show? In the only episode of Smallville I've ever seen, Clark Kent drives somewhere while listening to the radio. He visibly rocks out to a song placed into the episode for cross-platform marketing. The song mentions Superman and Lois Lane by name repeatedly, and young Superman reacts not at all. I hope that Spock listens to "Interplanetary" in the next one.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
Hasters posted:I hope so, it's about time the franchise made good on it's faux progressivism. Star Trek called capitalism barbaric at the height of the cold war. A black guy disagrees with Spock and is right at the same time that racists are blowing up black churches in Mississippi. Star Trek is hardcore, except for its hilariously over-the-top sexism.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2013 03:00
|
|
|
Ash1138 posted:So when Kirk sings along to Sabotage, how does he pronounce "sabotage?" Though he loved the song as a boy, now that he's grown he can no longer stand to hear it...it sickens him.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Man, I hope it's much smaller than the A, and then in 675 more ships we get the Enterprise AAA which is even smaller. Was the Enterprise-D the biggest and squarest of them?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2013 14:53
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Finally, Jews in Space makes it back to the big screen. Other space jews of note include Shatner, Nimoy. The new movies seem a lot WASP-ier in comparison. Khan has always been the only Mexican that the Man let into space.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
1st AD posted:And The Voyage Home Here's hoping that when they get to a fourth one in this series it's like the end of Back to the Future II and Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto have to sneak through footage of the old movie after going back to 1986 to get their own whales. Or they just re-film it where they have to fistfight old Shatner for the whales.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2013 20:36
|
|
|
Maarak posted:Very happy to see that there was some stronger writing than Star Trek (2009), and that the franchise is trying to tack back towards the tone of TOS. It'll probably never quite replicate that magic, but that's ok. It's gotta be contemporary instead of just a retro throwback. Shatner's incredible, visible contempt in that montage never ceases to amaze me. That may be the very moment he accepted that he had become a joke.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2013 07:38
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Khan is no longer a dude in brownface This is a pretty gross thing to say about Ricardo Montalban, dude.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2014 04:51
|
|
|
The Walking Dad posted:I was watching TNG last night and I couldn't get over just how Shakespearean the Klingons are. Obviously the Klingons were originally intended to be mongoloid in their original interpretation, racist charicatures of the warlike uncivilized peoples of the world. But, in TNG, the Klingons take on a more universally human nature, they have very Shakespearian notions of honor and valor, the more violent among them are outcasts. Warf is caught in the middle of all of this, battling with his antiquated notions of a warriors code that is literally his biotruth, and overcoming it with reason. On the old show the Klingons were just another space civilization, but fascists or whatever. They did cold war stuff with spies and diplomats. All the space-sword warrior pony-tail stuff was Next Generation, or maybe some of the movies.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
Bob Quixote posted:Its been a while since I've seen that episode, but if I recall correctly the augmented humans came in a variety of races and Khan was just one of their best and brightest which is why he was the leader. The characters race could have been incidental since it wasn't really referenced more than once in the episode, but considering it was made in the 60's maybe they thought it would be cool to have the example of homo superior be someone other than a WASP? Perhaps that makes it racist in a different way, but its a well meaning sort of racism that wasn't uncommon for media from the period. The episode is hilariously celebratory of him, too. He tries to take over the ship because his amazing will to conquer just overpowers him, and beyond stopping him from killing everybody Captain Kirk just kind of lets it go like "well, what do you expect from such a great man?" There's this part where they reminisce about learning about him in school, too, where they say he was the greatest conqueror because he did it all only killing when he absolutely had to and not for fun or racism like those other warlords (Hitler). It's actually creepy as gently caress.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
It was a bad movie.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
It was a bad movie.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
More velour! More lamé! More weird green sarongs and Nehru jackets!
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2015 07:03
|
|
|
The prime directive is just there so Captain Kirk can break it. Is there a single pre-spaceship planet where he doesn't destroy their supercomputer overlord or collapse their entire way of life? Those Romans are hosed: I hope they enjoy their dark age after having television and dentistry for a while.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
Oh like you don't know the characters' first names.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:Christianity has a pretty bad history when it comes to spreading its good word with less advanced peoples. The Prime Directive quickly becomes absurd in most of the scenarios it crops up in but the concept that our hyper-advanced spacemen shouldn't become so full of their own poo poo that they think they have a moral obligation to spread their society to everyone else, particularly those who don't have the means to resist them, isn't a bad one. As I think we'd both agree, the Federation is pretty inadequate despite the technological wonders it's achieved, that they're not going round trying to induct pre-industrial civilisations into their society is one of their few saving graces. Unless it's run by a supercomputer
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
Timby posted:The Director's Edition has some positives and negatives. By and large, the pacing is improved and the new effects are pretty seamless with a few exceptions, but there are some inexplicable changes (removing Kirk's second "viewer off!" is unforgivable) and the new sound mix is just terrible. You can't mess with THWOMMMM.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2015 11:40
|
|
|
Real Name Grover posted:It's been some time since I've run through TOS but if any of that is a callback to something that happened, I'm missing it Frank Gorshin black-and-white allegory people?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 08:48 |
|
|
Harime Nui posted:Hey relax you doubters, it's gonna be good. Think back to the old Odds and Evens rule of Star Trek movies. We had Insurrection (bad) ---> Galaxy Quest (great) ---> Nemesis (horrible) ---> Star Trek 09 (fun) ---> Star Trek Into Darkness (what the Japanese call holliboru) ----> THIS. Unless you can name a Star Trek related thing that might disrupt the sequence I think it's a lock. What's that one between Galaxy Quest and 09? I don't think I've heard of it before.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2015 22:43
|
|