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Just came back from seeing this. Three word summary: Stupid action movie. Longer summary: Not a Star Trek movie, lots of explosions and plenty of plot holes and derpy actions. Damon Lindelof needs to stay away from Hollywood. Spoilers ho! #0: Opening sequence has lots of actions but doesn't make much sense. Spock doesn't want the primitives on the planet to see a Starship so he says he doesn't want to be rescued from the volcano. Yet the Enterprise is hiding in the ocean - did they think that nobody would notice them going into the water or leaving? Nobody apparently goes fishing on this planet? #1: After a terrorist attack on the Federation which everyone is concerned about, all the senior Admirals/Captains meet in a nice high-rise with a non-bulletproof window judging from all the carnage. Pike dies, but it's not even in Kirk's arms. There's a reason for this but still, it would have made more sense considering Kirk spends the rest of the movie pissed off that Pike is dead. #2: Khan teleports back to a planet in Klingon space - specifically the Klingon Homeworld - to escape the manhunt, yet he hasn't even killed his primary objective AND hasn't freed anyone. Perhaps he thinks that someone - either Admiral Marcus or a surviving Captain - will come after him, but that only works if they don't launch one of those secret torpedoes that has a big ol' explosive in it, otherwise he dies. Or forces the Federation into war but that doesn't directly help his objective to free the other supermen. And what chunk of the Klingon Homeworld is uninhabited? Why? How did Spock know? #3: Did the Klingons not notice a Federation spaceship within firing range of their homeworld for a few hours? Then TWO including a dreadnaught? Were they not concerned about this? #4: What was that uninhabited moon with a nice breathable atmosphere that Carol Marcus and McCoy beamed to anyway? The one within spitting distance of the Klingon homeworld - it must have been because that's where the Enterprise was stranded? #5: If the Enterprise was originally going to destroy a chunk of Qo'noS from the Neutral Zone, but then they kept on going anyway to the point where the planet is quite visible, then they could used regular torpedoes instead of the super secret ones. Why even bother with torpedoes that appear to be special purpose when you can use the regular ones and save the cool ones for when you need them? #6: Why bother putting the 72 frozen supermen into torpedoes anyway? To kill them? They played up these torpedoes as being awesome, the Enterprise wasn't going to launch all 72 of them. #7: Spock makes a big deal about Khan being able to manipulate Kirk if they talked, but doesn't say "hey, I'm a logical guy, let me talk to him." WTF? #8: The Enterprise and the Dreadnaught have a big ol' battle right over Earth (you can see it and it's quite large), and very close to the Moon (even larger.) Yet no Starfleet ship bothers to, you know, check out why two Federation ships are fighting, or listen in on the comms, or something. #9: They try to re-enact the 'Spock dies' scene from Star Trek II, only having the roles switched with Kirk dying and Spock being helpless, watching his friend die. But then they throw a big ol' action sequence in the middle of it. And Kirk/Spock didn't have the very long friendship like they did in the movie, so the emotional resonance isn't there. And you know that Kirk dying isn't a big deal because of Khan's miracle resurrection blood; we just saw it about ten minutes previously with McCoy experimenting with a Tribble. And Spock lets out a "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!" that is weak compared to Shatner's. #10: Please stop destroying/almost destroying the Enterprise in every Star Trek movie. It's getting old. #11: WTF is it with the dedication to the 9/11 victims at the end? How did this movie connect in ANY way to 9/11? Seriously?
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May 15, 2013 21:37
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Alchenar posted:I just appreciated one more thing that reveals just how lazy the plot is: The jump a year forwards at the end. Why? Because that crisis with the Klingons, the war that the head of Starfleet is convinced is coming enough to set in motion all the events of the film, the threat that's realistic enough that everyone on the Enterprise thinks that full-scale war is just one bad incident away - turns out it's just not a big deal. It's a year later, nothing happened, nothing to see here, move along. The film doesn't even give Marcus the decency of being an antagonist who's faced with a genuine dilemma and picks the wrong option; he's just flat-out wrong. Wouldn't the Klingons demand that the Federation turn over the officer that invaded their territory and killed a bunch of their troops? I'm not sure how we would have handled it during the Cold War, but given the choice between all-out war and throwing some guy under the bus... qbert posted:I'm going to refute most of these really quickly so we can get back to discussing the real plot issues with the film. I'll answer a few. 3 - True, but I think we are already scanning for NEO - and the Enterprise would have been considered a Near Quo'nos Object. It was within visual range. 6 - Did he say why he hid people he wanted to save in weapons? 11 - Yes but I think he was trying to hit Starfleet HQ, right? I'm not sure if he did - the ship he was on said something about the aim not being accurate - but the difference between 9/11 and (say) the Cole or (to use another terrorist group) the Lebanon Marine Barracks wasn't just scale, but the targets being innocent civilians vs. military personnel. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 22:37 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 15, 2013 22:29
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Alchenar posted:I don't think that the Klingons are a cold war metaphor anymore. Which is stupid, because the half of the film that isn't a callback to Wrath is a callback to The Undiscovered Country. In this film the Klingons are just there to provide random antagonists for a meaningless action sequence. It all just goes to how soulless and contriver the plot is - Marcus tells us that the Federation is at the brink of war with the Klingons. But we're just told that and we aren't shown anything to really give us that impression because the only Klingons we see are the ones on their homeworld and it just doesn't seem true. That's problematic because it makes the guy who's the antagonist for 90% of the film (from when he announces to the audience that he's head of Section 31 to dying) someone who's motivations aren't actually real. Nero was at least mad with grief. This film just has the head of starfleet go insane for no reason at all. And start a conspiracy to change Starfleet despite the fact that he's already in charge and could just militarise in the open. Maybe the scriptwriters assumed everyone who wasn't a big Trek fan knew that the Klingons were the main enemy of the Federation, so they didn't need to show it. Sloppy but that is my assumption. Still even if there is no cold war, the Klingons of yore would not be happy with anyone intruding into their territory. By the way, it looked like some chunk of moon or space station or something had hit Quo'nos and perhaps explained why this part of the planet was uninhabited, has that been explained?
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May 15, 2013 23:02
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thatbastardken posted:He was designing and building weapons for Section 31/Marcus, what else would he have hidden them in? Something that wouldn't get shot out a torpedo tube? Weapons facilities have other things besides weapons - storage facilities for materials, laboratories, etc. I'm not sure where these torpedoes were stored, but since they were connected with the London research facility, they could have been there (and Admiral Marcus insinuates this.) Why blow it up? Also - presumably Admiral Marcus doesn't know that the capsules have frozen supermen in them. But he knows that there were 72 popsicles, and there are 72 torpedoes. Nobody did the math? And if Marcus did know the contents of the capsules, why give them to the Enterprise at all? Once Khan went rogue, they serve no use to force Khan to create weapons. Either get rid of them or try thawing out someone else to see if they know how to build weapons.
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May 16, 2013 00:43
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I just realized 72 virgins 
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May 16, 2013 03:39
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MikeJF posted:To be fair, the count of 72 other survivors besides Khan comes from Space Seed. Understood, but nobody said "hey, 72 is the same number of virgins that suicide bombers are supposed to get, maybe we should change it a little because nobody except hard-core Trek fans will care anyway"? VVVV Also: in "Space Seed" there were 84 pods, but only 72 survivors, including Khan. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 04:15
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^^^^ It would have been awesome if the timeline change, forced weapons research, and different encounter with Kirk caused Khan to be an extremist with a point rather than the big bad.jivjov posted:I could have just been a randomly chosen number. I highly doubt anyone consciously made that choice. Ordinarily I would agree, but considering the film draws a comparison between Khan and Bin-Laden, even ending the film with Khan blowing up a building with a spaceship and a 9/11 dedication message that they should have been a bit more careful. Seriously how did they not notice? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 04:31 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 04:28
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McSpanky posted:Congrats, you haven an opinion about Cumberbatch even less popular than mine! He does? I thought Cumberbatch was awful. He plays his role as a robot most of the time, with the occasional bit where he is angry. Even on the Dreadnaught, he is a Terminator until he reaches the bridge. Shouldn't a master manipulator be trying to get Kirk to approve of killing the Admiral? I've only seen him previously in "Sherlock" and I wasn't impressed.
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May 16, 2013 14:34
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The Lord Bude posted:So as someone who considers the 2009 movie a detestable rape of the Star Trek franchise, do you guys think I'd tolerate the sequel, or should I bury myself in my DS9 DVDs and stick my fingers in my ears and go la la la whenever anyone brings up the idea of going and seeing it? Don't see it; you will hate this film. VVVV -> yes, Khan was supposed to be a North Indian, possibly Sikh, according to Memory Alpha. The name "Singh" is of Indian origin. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 15:46 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 15:27
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Hatter106 posted:Haven't seen it yet, but is there a consensus on the 3D? Does it add much or not? We saw it in IMAX 3D, and outside of the opening sequence and the credits... I really don't remember much 3D. I'm sure it had some, but it wasn't memorable - at least compared to Hugo and The Avengers. Put it this way: if I loved this film and was going to see it again, I wouldn't pay to see it in 3D. VVVV <--- sorry, I saw it in IMAX  Though the point stands for that format - Inception wowed me in IMAX so much so that I saw it in IMAX a second time. This film really didn't wow me in IMAX. Maybe the 3D vs 2D made a difference?
monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 15:52
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I think it would be awesome if the next film had them finding Data's head in San Francisco, who could help with the apparent fight against the Klingons due to his advanced technical knowledge.
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May 16, 2013 19:22
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Gatts posted:Ooooo. Who do they cast as Data? Let's go with Terry Crews. He can even move like one. This is an action universe after all. Cumberhatch would have made an excellent Data. Too late now. EDIT: Guinan must be aware of the time shift, right? As soon as the Kelvin was taken down? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 20:28
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Medoken posted:I watched this at a midnight showing last night, and while I think it was a decent hollywood film, and a good addition to the JJ Trek universe, after thinking about it, I wasn't really happy with the movie. Hold on... I thought Scotty quit because he didn't know what was in the torpedoes and whether they were safe to fire or not; he wanted to open one up to make sure it wouldn't threaten the Enterprise. Am I misremembering?
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May 16, 2013 21:51
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Medoken posted:I understand what you're saying, but I fundamentally disagree. I think it is far more interesting for an author/director to allow characters to suffer the consequences of their actions without resorting to plot contrivances to save them (nothing would have changed - beside the mini-arc in the beginning - without Khan's superhealing blood). While I'm sure Kirk has learned something from his escapades, the impact is lessened rather extensively when he gets to continue galavanting around the quadrant banging green women and hanging out with Spock and crew. And on a personal level, I feel cheated as an audience member. I bought into Kirk's death hook-line-and-sinker. I felt emotionally manipulated when I realized the screenwriter had given himself a way out of that particular corner of the story. It's the same thing I hated in The Dark Knight Rises with Bruce Wayne getting away at the end. Hollywood has an (understandable) cowardice when it comes to killing off main characters that I do not enjoy. My perspective on Kirk's death: as soon as I saw him start to die, I realized that Khan's superblood would be used to resurrect him. So there I am, watching what is supposed to be a deeply emotional scene with Kirk making the ultimate sacrifice, and wanting to scream "superblood will save him!" at the screen. I didn't feel manipulated; I felt like the director was hoping I had forgot about the superblood. Part of me wonders if the bit about McCoy injecting a tribble with it was inserted when initial screenings had the audience wondering what saved Kirk; sure we saw it at the beginning of the movie but that was two hours ago, and meanwhile explosions. Davros1 posted:Did anyone else think that Khan had killed Scotty aboard the Vengence, by crushing his head? I'm crushing your head! Crush crush! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t4pmlHRokg monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 23:45
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:But if Khan hadn't been in the movie, then what reason would Robocop have had to be a villain? Because he still believes war is coming between the Federation and the Klingons, and would like to get the jump. Kirk & company uncovering a false flag operation would have worked just as well. Not saying it would be a great plot but it'd be better than what we got.
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May 17, 2013 07:36
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PeterWeller posted:The original has a shot of the moon with the scream echoing through space. It is super super silly. It is also awesome and one of my all time favorite movie moments. I think the scream echoing in space, with the moon (and volume of the scream) slowly receding worked really well. It wasn't JUST the scream. I don't think Spock yelling "KHAAAANNN!" works because we just had a very emotional moment with Kirk dying that is supposed to echo the mirror scene in TWOK. The audience is supposed to feel sadness, especially if they saw TWOK. Then Spock yells the comeback line and at least to me, it didn't feel right. The original line was pretty cheesy, and having a cheesy scream after a sad scene ruins the impact of both. If this was done differently - say, showing a clearly distraught Spock leaving Engineering, then increasing angry (losing control of his Vulcan side) as he finds Khan on Earth and orders himself beamed down. He turns, sees a figure running - and yells a battlecry of "KHAAAAAAAAAN!" Cheesy but now it's the start of an action sequence, and there would have been more of a buildup.
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May 17, 2013 17:09
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Simply Simon posted:A lot of people seem to ignore that Bones explicitly says that Kirk was never really dead and still had some brain functions left or whatever when they froze him. I think Bones did say that Kirk was only mostly dead. Maybe they should have brought Kirk to see Miracle Max? DFu4ever posted:Star Trek has never handled the 'Home' fleet well in any incarnation. It's simply never there when it should be. The Mars Defense Force. 
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May 17, 2013 18:06
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So another question: Why do we see Khan re-entering cryogenic stasis? Here is a guy who has just murdered thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of people. That's not even keeping in mind his various crimes as a tyrant around the time of the Eugenics Wars. Even in the idealized Starfleet, they had prison, and someone who had committed crimes on this scale would have been tried and sentenced to prison of some kind. The year gap between the events of the film and Kirk's speech/Khan going back into stasis is marginally enough time for a proper trial. So is his punishment just getting frozen again? If that's punishment, why are all the other people on the Botany Bay kept frozen (and thus "punished") even though they've done nothing wrong in the 'modern' era? Also: quote:If they Did not have that scene then Spock would know not to trust Khan and have time to figure out what to do with the cyrotubes The Eugenics Wars happened in this universe too. Did Spock not have access to Wikipedia?
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May 17, 2013 23:14
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MrBims posted:It is too drat dangerous to keep him alive, and it would be immoral and illegal to execute him. Keeping him frozen until some time when the Federation is better prepared to reform him or otherwise handle him would seem the only option to them. Well, in that case why doesn't the Federation put more of their criminals on ice, at least the dangerous ones? Maybe they do and we don't see it, but I'm guessing that the only reason Khan went back into stasis was so we'd get a cool shot of him smiling as he joined his 72 buds. quote:That wouldn't really be insight into how he thought, not the way that Kirk and Spock gained in Wrath. Old Spock knew that Khan was only defeated by his collapse into single-minded purpose, you can't really ascertain that from a history book that ends with "and then one day Khan and his men were never seen again." The "brought down by single-minded purpose" would have helped if that is what brought Khan down. They get him in ST2 because he lacks "three dimensional thinking" for the space battle; this movie just had an action set piece. All the Spock-Spock talk gives us is Old Spock reacting to Khan's name with 
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May 17, 2013 23:52
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Al-Saqr posted:Just saw the movie. it was nice but nothing super special or anything. I think Admiral Banzai was the one being headcrunched in that bit. You mean on the bridge? fatherboxx posted:A new Plinkett video is worth waiting for I guess? I think there are a number of moments in the film that will fall under Plinkett's "you may not have noticed X, but your brain did" line. Whenever I'm watching a movie that looks great but for some reason I'm not feeling it, I think about whether my brain is catching something or not. ST '13 reminds me of when I've watched the new Doctor Who series, and we see Something Awesome and hear Awesome Music and it's obvious we are supposed to think "Wow This Is Awesome." monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 18:29
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computer parts posted:Well, none that we see. That is a year after the events of most of the film. Except if a major point of the film is that you should put the bad guy on trial instead of killing him via remote control, you should at least show that he had a trial. Also anyone else remember how Scotty (when he was caught on the dreadnaught) mentioned that the guy who caught him was with some private security group instead of Starfleet, so when the dreadnaught blew up, it would be Space Blackwater people and not Starfleet people dying? Cause Space Blackwater guys don't have families and stuff. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 22:28
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I said come in! posted:In Star Trek 09, how come the bad guy didn't just fly to Romulus and warn the planet, once he realized he traveled back in time? That advanced tech could have helped out with the attempted Romulan invasion of Vulcan in "Unification."
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May 18, 2013 23:29
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computer parts posted:The major point of the film isn't specifically "Khan needs a trial", it's "Kirk shouldn't do the wrong thing", which in this case is "unilaterally killing a guy and sparking a war." Arguably, you could include in the montage at the end Khan being declared guilty and being frozen, but it's implied at the time that yes he got a trial because Kirk isn't a terrible person. I'd argue that violating a treaty made with another power by crossing the border into their territory, landing armed troops on their home world, then being involved with a shootout with their military, because you want to capture someone who snuck over the border and whose government isn't even aware is there, is also the "wrong thing" to do. 
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May 19, 2013 00:40
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If it is OK to (forcibly) take some blood from Khan to heal Kirk, can we take more blood from Khan? I imagine a lot of other people in SF are gravely ill due to Khan's actions, is it OK to take more blood to heal other victims?
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May 19, 2013 01:32
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Bargearse posted:You could probably also argue that the crews of those Klingon ships might not have formally reported anything, not wanting the dishonour of having gotten their asses handily kicked by a single human. Star Trek: OK to invade Klingon space because they won't report it anyway
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May 19, 2013 06:08
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Ernie Muppari posted:There are a surprising number of things in Star Trek that bring a particular quote from Kids in the Hall to the minds of my boyfriend and I: "Is it wrong to kill a man just because he deserves to die?" Understood, but in this case the Klingons there did not "need killing." They were intercepting an alien ship which had landed on their own planet, and are justifiably suspicious. Kirk didn't come out guns blazing, but they did once the Klingon border patrol started to defend themselves once Khan opened fire. The "right thing" to do was not to sneak into Klingon space at all (at least not without permission.) Ordinarily I would not be so nit picky, but if one of the subtexts of the film is to show that drone warfare is bad, then what they showed instead was the equivalent of sending some Marines over in helicopters, with the implication that Kirk's action was better. Except it wasn't that much better, especially compared to going up the chain of command to point out that he was given an illegal order - or to refuse to execute the order period. Maybe in the next film we'll see Kirk being chewed out for landing on Kronos and kicking off the hot war that Robocop wanted; what irony. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 19:30
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MadDogMike posted:Uh, the Klingon captain was pretty obviously planning to kill/harm Uhura when he drew his knife, so it wasn't Klingons acting in "self defense" in that case. I definitely got the impression Kirk was getting ready to come out guns blazing in any event, Khan's attack just gave him a perfect distraction he seized. Think of it from the perspective of the Klingons: you find an alien shuttle hovering over your homeworld, maybe your sensors even detect weapons and numerous lifeforms. They try to run, and you eventually force the shuttle to land at gunpoint. An alien from a race you are not-exactly-friendly with comes out, claiming that they are trying to capture someone who you've never heard of for a crime. They are either members of the alien military/police force, in which case they are violating a treaty; or they are bounty hunters/vigilantes in which case who cares. At this point the Klingons can enforce their own law; true, they will probably kill people for violating Klingon air space, but then don't do that  And all this is assuming that they don't bother to detect the Enterprise which is in visual range of their homeworld; if they do, they'll know that the shuttle was sent by Starfleet and are trying to cover up a major violation of their treaty.It's an illegal order since Marcus ordered Kirk to violate a treaty between the Federation and the Klingons, a violation of which could lead to war. Launching 72 (probably fewer) torpedoes from the NZ was a definite casus belli, but so is parking a Federation ship with the same number of torpedoes (plus other armaments) over Kronos. The latter is only better because you are hoping the Klingons don't notice. But the Klingons did notice, and Kirk's operation hosed up. What would have happened if a few Birds of Prey moseyed on up to the cripped Enterprise?
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May 19, 2013 23:02
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DFu4ever posted:Then Marcus's plan would have worked exactly how he wanted it to. Except Marcus didn't want the Enterprise to fly into Klingon space. He wanted torpedoes shot from the Neutral Zone.
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May 20, 2013 00:38
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Guilty posted:That's the problem with sci-fi. It takes so long for a good film to come out. Nearly every other genre gets a canon builder every year, or every other year. Since 2000, the only movies I might add to your list would be minority report and cabin in the woods Inception firmly belongs in that category. It will be interesting to see if they take Star Trek back to television, but wouldn't that only happen if Paramount thought that they'd make more money on TV than with blockbuster movies?
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May 20, 2013 05:08
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:For everyone who keeps asking "why would he teleport to Kronos?" Think about it this way: if you wanted to hide from the US, wouldn't you go into some country with piss poor US diplomatic relations, assuming there's pretty much zero risk of the US chasing you because it could spark a major loving war/retaliation/diplomatic nightmare? The Klingon government has not had the opportunity to say "sure, go ahead and take him, we don't care" since Kirk has not said "would you kindly hand over John Harrison?" Instead, Kirk & co. end up meeting with some random border patrol. The patrol probably doesn't even have the authority to hand over a person on their homeworld to (from their perspective) some people who say they would like him. And their perspective is this: "Why should I let random people take a random person that I don't even know about? It's not like these people are acting in any kind of official capacity since they aren't with Starfleet. Hell, I haven't even seen this random person, maybe the people on this ship are full of poo poo and are up to no good. Not on my planet they aren't!" In any case, if the Klingon government found Khan, there's a good chance they'd kill him for sneaking over the border. That's not really a lesson on how you should treat terrorists, since the Klingons are a sovereign government and can do whatever they like, and aren't killing him for the crimes Khan committed on Earth anyway.
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May 20, 2013 14:20
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Phylodox posted:Turn the Khan/Spock confrontation at the end into a dance fight! We're saving that for the Kinect game
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May 25, 2013 19:34
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DFu4ever posted:EDIT: The idea of a female Indian Khan has now popped in my head for some reason, and I find the idea fascinating. Or having Chaka Khan in the role, possibly playing herself in an alternate timeline where she has used her genetically gifted powers as a singer to take over a quarter of the world as a benevolent warlord.
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May 25, 2013 20:56
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JediTalentAgent posted:Khan is the best of both worlds: A TV/Movie figure that's recognizable and popular to both traditional Trek fanbase and a newer, non-Trek fanbase audience. A serious enemy in some serious Trek. But Khan's story wasn't really a story they needed to tell in the second film of this new series because they hadn't 'earned' that yet. Discounting his pre-thaw history, he's only really important to the Trek mythos for a single episode and a single legitimately great Trek movie where he did some pretty big stuff in terms of the franchise. Take Khan out of the movie entirely, remove the name Khan from everyone's lips from the film, and nothing in terms of plot really feels lost or gained, but it doing so also makes me feel the film would be a less bit less distracting, though. Agreed. Before TWOK, Khan was a guy in one episode. I think one problem is that if the audience has seen TWOK, they will have some expectations about how he will act; if the audience hasn't seen TWOK, it's more of a "so what" when the reveal happens. Montalban's Khan was charismatic and intimidating; there was a sense that yes, not only was this person dangerous now, but he was dangerous during the Eugenic Wars, and this person could have been a dictator. He's genuinely frightening in Space Seed and you don't want him let loose. Cumberhatch's Khan can build bombs but I don't see him getting into a position of power. He's been loose for some time before the events of STID and what has he done? Build stuff. The real Khan would have manipulated things in his favor and probably have been running Section 31 by then. THAT would have been an interesting Khan; using the Federation's intelligence apparatus to start pulling the strings of the Federation. More wasted potential. VVVV - yes, and an antagonist tech genius is more of a comic book villain. monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 27, 2013 |
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May 27, 2013 17:52
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Maybe the film mentioned this, but why didn't Khan just defrost his friends? He had access to the cryotubes since he stuck them in the torpedoes. They still had some functionality besides "stay cold" because McCoy sticks Kirk in one and turns it on.
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May 28, 2013 01:14
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7thBatallion posted:The technology is too old. They don't have the technology to defrost them, it was all lost in WWIII. Then how did they defrost Kirk? computer parts posted:Nope, there's no time during the events of the movie that Khan is alone with the torpedoes until the very end. But Khan put his people in the torpedoes. Would Section 31 have said "yup, go ahead"? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 01:44 on May 28, 2013 |
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May 28, 2013 01:42
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MrBims posted:Because it happened later and with facilities and personnel available on earth who could reproduce the procedure. Smart people like Khan? Why didn't he defrost them when he had access to them, and unsupervised otherwise they wouldn't have ended up in the torpedo tubes in the first place?
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May 28, 2013 02:38
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PlantRobot posted:Presumably they were meant to be loaded onto the big fuckoff spaceship that could be flown by 'one, if necessary' and then he'd take it from there? But if his project was to make torpedoes, shouldn't he have been supervised? Maybe use a webcam or something to make sure he isn't sneaking marijuana or porn or frozen people into the torpedoes?
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May 28, 2013 03:12
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api call girl posted:For what it's worth, the fact that you literally linked a breitbart.com review tells us more about you than anything you've linked tells us about the movie. Because argumentum ad hominem is so much better
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May 28, 2013 03:45
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PeterWeller posted:Please explain what information they will add to the formation of my opinion. I don't want to watch a 45 minute web video. I want you to summarize it for me. I enjoy RLM and find their videos entertaining, but I don't think it will change anyone's mind on the film. People who like it as a dumb action movie will maintain that the issues the movie has don't matter, people who dislike the movie will say the review is on-point.
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May 28, 2013 04:17
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PeterWeller posted:I resent this characterization and it leads me to believe that you haven't paid attention to the arguments in support of the film. I like it as a smart, character-driven social allegory complemented by interesting space mumbo-jumbo and cool special effects and action, or in short: as a Star Trek movie. If that is the case, then I'd say the review is worth watching since it may very well change your mind. They point out the film isn't very smart, the action set pieces were seemingly created in isolation and put together with a small script in-between, much of the space mumbo-jumbo is silly, there isn't all that much characterization, etc.
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May 28, 2013 04:57
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