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Redjakk posted:Idle speculation with my friends brought up the possibility that Cumberbatch may actually be playing Joachim and that Peter Weller, who is reported to be playing an unnamed "advisor" of Cumberbatch's character might be playing an older Khan. Basically thinking that the Botany Bay got found 20 years earlier than in the regular timeline for some reason and subsequent events resulted in Khan and his protege hatching a plan for revenge against the federation. Yeah, seems a bit of a stretch, though I gotta wonder where Peter Weller fits in. Whether they go with Khan (my preference) or Gary Mitchell (seems more likely at this point), I just hope they actually intelligently play with the "rebooted" universe as an alternate timeline and not just "hey it's a reimagineering and we'll just redo what we wanna." Like they do make intelligent decisions that the changes we see all stem from Nero's arrival. One thing that is kinda cool is how so many mainstream websites are analyzing the trailer. I guess between the success of the last movie and the popularity of scifi/fantasy stuff like LOTR, Avengers, Harry Potter, and Walking Dead, nerd culture really is mainstream now. (Well, except for Fringe not having ratings  )So it's neat to see non geek sites do in depth questions about if it's Khan or Gary Mitchell or if Alice Eve is Dehner...and they actually do research and know who these characters are. Who would ever have thought The Frisky would be speculating about Gary Mitchell? Well, almost everyone gets it right: http://arts.nationalpost.com/2012/12/06/khan-benedict-cumberbatchs-star-trek-villain-sounds-like-a-really-not-nice-fellow/ quote:Benedict Cumberbatch’s star is rising. How high? As high as his villain character is able to chase the Enterprise in J.J. Abrams’ upcoming Star Trek sequel, a.k.a. the Spock-redux film. In Star Trek into Darkness, the English actor — perhaps best known these days for Sherlock and his eponymous starring role in the BBC modern adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s classic tales — will portray the chief villain, rumoured to be named Khan Noonien Singh, or simply Khan, you know, for that retro Trekkie feel.  Don't even know where to start on that one.
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Dec 7, 2012 06:33
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WarLocke posted:I thought it was pretty obvious from the first movie that with Old Spock (Spock Prime? whatever) around now Starfleet would want to debrief him and he could let them know about all sorts of poo poo to watch out for. Stuff like "On such and such a stardate the old sleeper ship Botany Bay will be at XYZ coordinates, this Khan dude is on it and he is seriously bad news" etc etc etc. I've always hoped this, and it's how I've thought they could set up a meeting with Kirk and Khan-Starfleet sends him to bring back the Botany Bay after Old Spock gives them it's location, and the younger Kirk cockily wakes him up and Khan runs circles around him in a way that he never could have even in Space Seed. But the could just as easily say "Old Spock never did want to tell us about the future, because he thought it would be wrong." Or more likely, never mention Old Spock again. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much.
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Dec 7, 2012 07:07
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JediTalentAgent posted:Which JJTrek IV should be about the crew traveling back to the 80s and constantly running into their original Trek IV actor selves and hiding before they see them. Then Spock realizes, "We need the whales to save OUR timeline, and the timeline they come from may no longer exist for THEM to save once they leave this era." It does bring up an interesting point though, would OT Kirk and the gang be back in 1985 of this timeline? I'd say no, because what future could they go back to? Like Old Spock, their timeline is locked out. Somebody else would have to have invented transparent aluminum, Gillian is still back in the 20th century and probably dies well before WWIII. Basically, when Nero went back the entire future as we knew it was cut off, and therefore all the future chicanery and time travel from the 23rd century and up to the 20th and 21st that we saw never happened. In JJTrek, Kirk is NOT in the 1930s with Edith Keeler. The Borg never come back to gently caress with First Contact, therefore Picard wasn't there, and the Borg stuff that happened in Enterprise never happened. Most likely, even the Future Guy stuff and Temporal Cold War may never have happened. So actually events in Enterprise that would have been canon aren't necessarily so. Every time travel ep we've seen...Tomorrow is Yesterday, Little Green Men, the Voyager one where they go to the 90s. Not in the JJ Trek timeline. And speaking of DS9, what does that mean for The Sisko? Do the Prophets still bring him into existence, or is there some other Emissary? Depending on their real power, Sisko might actually still be around in a hundred years. But the odds of many of the cast of TNG, DS9, and Voyager even being born are pretty slim. Even the slightest change of a second related to their conception, even if their parents still got together and even if they had sex at the same time, still might mean Picard and everyone may never have been born. The farther you go, the more likely things will have changed. Noonian Soong was pretty old by TNG, so he might have squeaked in and could still create a Data-like android. Tuvok was probably born around the time of TOS, but after Nero's original arrival, so he may not even have been around for the destruction of Vulcan, but he probably wouldn't have survived that. Sadly, Neelix is still destined to be born.
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Dec 7, 2012 10:27
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Some Other Guy posted:(4) The title, "Into Darkness," is a reference to the dark tone of the film, but it's also a plot element of the episode. Gary gets his powers when they attempt to leave the galaxy (going into Darkness, get it?).  I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Simple, elegant, and it has a dual meaning...a literal "star trek into darkness."
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Dec 8, 2012 06:55
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Some Other Guy posted:I also have some trepidation as to how they're going to explain Gary's character. If Kirk has some history with him, you can't just introduce him as a mysterious villain. You have to explain how they're related and how Gary got his god powers. Whether they do this on screen or with expository dialogue or however they do it could spell whether or not this turns out to be a good movie, in my opinion. Well look how much they left out when it came to Nero's backstory. All that stuff from the comics was definitely in the minds of the writers, they could have filmed some of that if they wanted, from framing scenes in the post TNG period to just some flashbacks with a nicer Nero in a smaller ship actually interacting with his wife. Instead, all most filmgoers knew about the character was he was an rear end in a top hat bald Romulan from the future in a gently caress off big "mining" ship who hated Spock because he blamed Spock for the destruction of Romulus. They didn't even bother to explain where he had been for 25 years, IIRC, because they edited out the Rura Penthe scenes. So I imagine there will be a big backstory with Mitchell, and it might even jive with the comics, but very little of it will be seen on screen.
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Dec 8, 2012 19:57
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Lobok posted:Is Gary Mitchell ever referred to by any other name or title? Or might they have used the character but changed his name? Maybe the only reason the filmmakers don't want you to know he's the main villain is because "Gary Mitchell" is terribly plain, boring, and non-threatening. Why don't you say that to his face, Mortal?  Too late. He heard you anyway.  korusan posted:Trekmovie's saying that the long trailer has Chekov in a red tunic. Maybe Sulu will get a blue one? And perhaps he'll move from helm to botany, in an opposite move of the OT. 
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Dec 9, 2012 06:25
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Tars Tarkas posted:Is it really space racism if you don't want to gently caress an energy blob? Don't say that til you've tasted the gravy, cis-solid hardonormative bigot! 
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Dec 9, 2012 06:38
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Well, kind of. Just remember that TNG was, at the early stages, pretty much Space Communism Utopia in the time when people had a raging hard-on for Reaganomics. Yeah, as much as Roddenberry didn't think it through, ideas like "no money" and transubstantiation of matter in the form of free and unlimited replication was pretty  for the 80s.Not to mention a female chief medical officer, female security chief, blind helmsman, and the addition of their formal mortal enemy, a Klingon, to the bridge crew (which was as significant in the world of the show as having Pavel Chekhov on TOS). This significance of all this was that besides Worf, this was all not even acknowledged on the screen. It just was. Gender and disability were as non issues to the crew in universe just as having an black, asian, and Russian were in TOS. It just literally was not needed to be brought up, which in and of itself is significant. They had a robot as part of the crew and within a season were grappling with the idea of it's human rights. This not only serves as an analogue for numerous other oppressed classes, but presages a debate which I believe we will have within our lifetimes. The first episode was a slimy third world government guy trying to exploit a defenseless creature to win points with his first world benefactors--who resoundingly rejected and chastised him and freed the creature. TNG was progressive in many ways.
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Dec 9, 2012 18:55
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Warm und Fuzzy posted:I loved TNG growing up, but I don't want to turn it into something it wasn't. The cast fell in line with a well established template of multiculturalism at the time. Even then the stereotypes were a little uncomfortable: the black bouncer, the lesbian security chief, the female empathy officer. I think this statement says a lot more about you than it does the intentions of the people doing TNG...
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Dec 10, 2012 04:12
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Monkeyseesaw posted:By the time TNG rolled around the reputation of the franchise was working against the creativity that should have been brought to bear on the material. After 20-some odd years it was a given that Star Trek was Progressive Television which meant they could get lazy. It was progressive because it was Star Trek instead of vice-versa. It most definitely played it safer. Yeah, I'll grant it probably wasn't AS progressive as TOS for it's time, but I just bristle at people in both Trek threads throwing around "well actually it was pretty racist and horrible." that's a little  to me.Also that scene with Cumberbatch saying he can help cure a sick kid screams Gary Mitchell to me.
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Dec 10, 2012 05:22
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Riker is a busy man, okay? He has to keep his beard nautical and decorative, he has daily trombone practice as well as regular ambo-jutsu sessions, there's poker games to arrange, women to flirt with, he has important meetings with staff leaders in which he belittles their work for an episode's B/C-plot, and he's the Enterprise XO. The man simply does not have the time to learn how to make good scrambled eggs. He's also the Chef on the NX-01. In the Holodeck. Everyday. Pulls a duty shift in real time there daily. Some Other Guy posted:...what? John Harrison? That sounds a lot like "Gary Mitchell" except it's not Gary Mitchell. Unless someone else knows who this is my guess is they just changed the name since he was a minor character anyway. Haha, what the poo poo? http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Harrison People are saying it's this guy, a I was just finally coming around to liking it being Gary Mitchell instead of my previous hope, Khan. If this is true it'll be really lame.
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Dec 11, 2012 03:02
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Nothing says "I am a Star Trek fan!" quite like whining about Star Trek. Fixed. My thoughts on the revelations of today are that I've actually accepted them more than I did yesterday. Carol Marcus, Ms. "I hate the military" serving in Starfleet? That's not so far out. Besides "different timeline," we never were told she WASN'T in Starfleet in TOS. Hell, how did she and Kirk meet? It's not at all uncommon for a civilian scientist to be in the military for a project and be given clearance and a rank commensurate to their experience. She could have been in Starfleet in the OT and then bailed. John Harrison instead of Gary Mitchell. You know, I'm surprisingly OK with this. I originally wanted Khan because he's still out there. He's a Thing that Exists in the new timeline and there's no reason NOT to address him. But Mitchell? What are the odds that the same guy will go through the Galactic Barrier in 2 very different timelines. It was stretching things to begin with. So hopefully here Gary Mitchell is just some dude serving on a ship somewhere who may or may not have went to the Academy w/Kirk, Bones, Uhura, etc. Of course, he also could have died at the hands of Nero. In any case, if "Harrison" is superpowered, he may not even have gotten those powers due to the Galactic Barrier. In which case we may have, Carol Marcus aside, a whole new story here, which is kinda cool. The April is Harrison theory? Eh, I don't like it though.
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Dec 12, 2012 02:23
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Young Freud posted:Considering how many times "Space Battleship Yamato" pulled off similar shots in not just the movies, but the TV show (twice!), I'm going with this. It's a rebirth into new canon. New Voyages just got a new Kirk, because the other guy, the Elvis impersonator (who put the whole thing together) is doing Elvis full time now. But he's staying on to be the "showrunner" and do the costumes and stuff. The new guy absolutely has more of a Kirk look, even moreso than Pine. But his voice...ugh. Cawley verged on parody but at least he had some swagger.
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Dec 13, 2012 05:09
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thrawn527 posted:I'd say the best odd Star Trek film is The Search for Spock. It mainly suffers from a somewhat lackluster villain after having just gotten away from Khan, and has some strange moments. But it's fun when it needs to be, and has Kirk experiencing real loss, which is rare. (Yes, he had just lost Spock, but since he gets him back in this movie, losing David is one of the few instances of real loss that sticks with the character.) And 
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Dec 15, 2012 03:33
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Some Other Guy posted:Technically the Sisko probably is in the wormhole no matter what timeline you're looking at. You know who else is still around? And can jump timelines like you change shoes?   Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Kirk now never has to feel bad that he didn't fire phasers at the evil space cloud that killed hundreds of crewmen on the Farragut. He will also never have adventures with the Hill People as a lieutenant. He also probably was never on that colony under Kodos, and a ton of other things. This is so, so important for people to understand. This Kirk, when he gets command, is not only physically about 5 years younger (as is the rest of the cast), he has, like the rest of the cast, grown up in a totally different universe and had different experiences. This Kirk didn't go into the Academy til he was much older-he was basically a "non-Traditional student" as we call them now-going in his mid 20s with a bunch of kids. In the OT, before Kirk had commanded the Enterprise he'd had years on other starships like Farragut in lower ranks, been a first officer, and spent time teaching at the Academy. We knew Kirk as a strong disciplinarian with his crew, very smart and bookish, but also passionate. This Kirk is still a lot less mature. It's a great philosophical question, though I don't think the new series will explore it much. But with this Kirk, you are asked to think "how much of a person is made up by their circumstances and experiences?" Old Spock felt that this was the same Kirk, and no matter what if he could get him together with his younger self and McCoy, they'd make magic. On the other hand, in "Tapestry" on TNG we saw a very different Picard. It's a great thing to speculate about.
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Dec 18, 2012 00:57
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Timby posted:it's a callback to Pike saying it in the 2009 movie. "Punch it" is the new "Engage."
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Mar 10, 2013 01:13
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The MSJ posted:There's a URL hidden in the scene where Carol is in her underwear (clever, that). It leads to a site with a new poster. Ah, of course, the classic character triumvirate of Kirk, Spock, and...Uhura. Well it makes sense, Karl Urban isn't a leading movie star or anyth... Yeah, I dunno.
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Mar 21, 2013 22:29
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MadScientistWorking posted:Honestly, a good guess is that the little girl is suffereing from a disease that the agument treatments could fix but because of Khan its illegal. The horrible thing that Starfleet has done is doom people to death due to their paranoia. This could be great. I would love for them to bring in the Augments by name, because it would confirm the canon status of Enterprise, tie in something that showed up in TOS, TNG, and DS9 as well, and it also is a great "current events" issue. It is the perfect use of scifi, using it to talk about something we are debating now.
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Mar 26, 2013 23:44
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octoroon posted:The the "Dreadnaught class" thing is indeed true, then this wiki page explains a lot about the plot of the movie: Haha, if they based the new movie off one of the most Mary Sue works in Star Trek history, that would be loving hilarious!  That new ship is badass--very Enterprise-E. On a close look, I'd say the thickness of the neck reminds me of Excelsior, but from that angle the saucer is very C/Dish. And the cryotubes...aw yeah.  You know who ELSE had cryotubes, right?I think this movie is gonna blow everyone's mind. Can't wait! Edit: I also notice that not only is Pike still rockin' his TMP style uniform, he's sporting a dapper cane. Astroman fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 21:07
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Crackpipe posted:Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise - Suddenly canon Well technically, the concept of a Dreadnaught was from the Franz Joseph Technical Manual. It had 3 nacelles, though, much like the Dreadnaught from the novel (which to be fair looked pretty badass on the cover):  echoplex posted:It DOES look like the Enterprise E. loving John Eaves. I personally don't mind this at all...the E is probably my 3rd favorite design, after the TOS Movie Enterprise and the Excelsior. It might be a little "Scimitar" in concept, but I'd dig it if the backstory is the Dreadnaught is some sort of ultra high concept warship stolen by Harrison, like the way Shinzon nabbed the Scimitar from the Romulans. Even a couple lines from Pike to Kirk expositing how the Dreadnaught was purpose built to fight ships like the Narada after they got back sensor data from the Kelvin survivors. While all the Starfleet ship designs were upgraded and made better a la the JJPrise, the Dreadnaught was built as a total warship, like the Defiant was for the Borg. In my fanon dreams Pike shows Kirk a blueprint of the TOS Enterprise: "Jim, this was the next ship on the drawing board, until the moment your father's ship was destroyed by Nero. We scrapped it immediately and began to build bigger, better ships, like yours. But they weren't enough, and the end goal was built in secret: The Dreadnaught. Designed to be on par with ships like the Narada, once we realized that things like that existed and were a threat to the Federation. And now Harrison has stolen it, and turned it against us."
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Apr 16, 2013 22:00
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Whatever they do I hope they continue to have Prime Spock and his presence continue to have repercussions rather than just shunt him off to apocrypha.
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Apr 18, 2013 03:11
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Aatrek posted:ANYHOW, general-release IMAX tickets should be on sale now for May 15th at 8PM. Glad I don't have to stay up for a midnight release this time around! Is there someplace besides Fandango to look for this, because all I see around me is stuff on the 16th. Though we don't have a real IMAX, just a mini one. jivjov posted:To this day I'm impressed but surprised that they bothered to explain the whole parallel universe thing. I mean, they could have just made a Star Trek movie with the TOS characters but not explained anything about it being a different timeline and I think people still would have eaten it up. Me too. I'm a canon obsessed nerd and I had resigned myself to believing that they were going to just blow it up and reboot it totally. I was pleasantly surprised they did what they did because they absolutely didn't have to. It gives me a lot of good will towards JJ, Orci, and Kurtzman to the point I'll let a lot slide.
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Apr 18, 2013 22:09
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Great_Gerbil posted:On the other hand, there are people who do believe the government deliberately allowed or even committed the WTC attacks and many of them ate violent. So, Nero as a Truther is hilarious and at the same time oh so perfect.
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Apr 22, 2013 16:39
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Thom12255 posted:Agreed, I don't trust my willpower enough to stay. Me too. I cannot cannot summon the willpower to go past another black box. I thought I could, but if I see one more I'm gonna do it. I usually read spoilers but there's a point where I'm either so close to seeing it or the spoilers are so detailed that I have to GET OUT!! GET OUT OF THERE!! We have reached that point. See you in 3 weeks and about 300 pages.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:28
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Kinda lame that we have to still spoiler all this poo poo, because I specifically avoided this thread for 2 weeks to avoid spoilers. Who is reading this thread to have Star Trek Into Darkness discussion who hasn't seen the movie?  Anyway, when in Rome, I'm gonna go against the grain of the cool kids and say I liked it. I really did. But for me, the reason it worked so well is that it was exactly what I wanted. I wanted this. If you didn't, I can see how you would be upset. I only wish I had Archives so I could go back and pull my posts from like 2 years ago where I said something like "I really hope the next movie is Star Trek II:2 and they have Khan in it. But not the revenge driven, bitter Khan, but one Fresh Out the Tube like in Space Seed. But a 5 years younger, more inexperienced Kirk is meeting him." Cause right now, I'm feeling pretty Oh yeah, bask in it. I even have been beating the drum for the past 2 years about how they should address Old Spock giving or not giving them spoilers. (For the record, I'm glad they addressed it, though I think it's kind of a dick move on Old Spock's part to not tell them of coming disasters like The Doomsday Machine, V'Ger, The Whale Probe, etc. Especially since the timeline has already been corrupted to all hell).I liked the fact that they had Khan, but specifically DID NOT try to make him the same as in TWOK. Because he is indeed a different man, younger, living under different circumstances, and with different motivations. Exactly the way a New Timeline Khan (or any character should be). I think a lot of the people whining that this is a lame "remake" of TWOK are, like a poor marksman, missing the target (and the point). Same with people whining that it's "bad filmmaking" because "even though I know who Khan is, the 'rest of the audience' doesn't and this is Uniformed Filmaking and therefor against what I learned in Cinema Theory blah blah  " So you know who Khan is, but you're worried that nobody else does? Cumberbatch is good as Khan. I think Del Torio would have been good too. I'll weigh in the whiteness debate simply to say that I am in general opposed to casting radically different looking people into iconic parts. Of any race. I'm still not totally sold on Pine as Kirk and Pegg as Scotty (though I think Quinto and Urban nail it). My spergrage will never cease over the fact that James Cromwell looks nothing like Glenn Corbitt. That said, I accept that this is just the way it is, and sometimes they just aren't gonna cast a similar looking person, even of the same race, in a role. On the wider issue of turning him white vs having someone hispanic or even Indian play the part (and I'm sure there are some Indian actors out there who would have killed it) I think it's more a practical concern: there is NO way they could have a dark skinned person play a terrorist who blows up buildings and crashes ships into them without causing even MORE backlash. Some of the same people in this very thread who decry Khan "being whitewashed" would probably be raging about "terrorist stereotypes" and how Hollywood only sees minorities as criminals. Sucks, but there you have it. I think there are some critics out there who would have been espousing the idea that the character of Khan was created in 2013 specifically to harm minorities, with the same logic that people used to say the lego Jabba's Palace toy was meant to represent the Hagia Sophia Mosque, ignoring the fact that it was meant to represent something from a 30 year old movie set on Tatooine and that the Hagia Sophia was architecturally designed as a Christian church. Basically, emotions always trump logic in popular debate and I think not casting an Indian, sadly, was the "safer" choice. My own opinion though is that they should have cast someone who either looked like a "Khan Noonian Singh" or at least like Montalban. But what's done is done, and in the role itself Cumberbatch does a fine job of selling me on Khan. I loved the fact that we got to see how genius and dangerous he is--that he could be unthawed hundreds of years later and design more advanced tech than the brightest minds of his future. It's a glimpse of how an unfettered Khan could be a real danger to the Federation, if he's not exiled, mad, or safely frozen. The callbacks were great too. "Put on a red shirt, Chekov" *GULP*, Captain Sulu, "Mudd incident last month." McCoy torpedo surgery. Etc etc. I could also swear there was a shuttle named "Takei" at one point. And can I say I LOVE the fact that the NX-01 and therefore Enterprise is actually officially canonized in JJ Trek? As well as Section 31? loving AWESOME! Once again, just as I noted with them going through the trouble of having Nero and Old Spock come in from the Original Timeline (thus preserving it as canon), JJ didn't have to do any of that. He was under no obligation to make a hit movie that keeps any sort of canon, so that he did is something I am grateful for. I also loved the scene with Scotty in the Space Bar for two reasons. One, it was a great callback to the one McCoy went to in III. Even moreso than the dive Kirk was at in the last movie. Two, Scotty's paisley butterfly shirt and the hairstyles of the women in there were SO 60s/70s that it was a great way to say, "see, 1960s and 70s style was totally, legitimately and actually back in style in the 2260s and 2270s when we saw all those women with beehive hairdoos in TOS and disco McCoy in TMP. I was bummed they killed off Pike though. And his rad sidburns. Thematically using "The Undiscovered Country" as a touchstone was a good move too. It's more a remake of that movie than TWOK, which is appropriate, as again, Khan wouldn't hate Kirk in this timeline. But in the world of TOS, the cold war with the Klingons was always verging on hot. And since they've already managed to blow up Praxis and make large swaths of their planet uninhabitable (presumably experimenting with Nero's poo poo while they had the Narada), there's no "hey, we can help you in your time of need" for the Federation to make peace. It had to happen at that exact point in their relations to work, and now the Klingons are a major issue, and Marcus had logical reasons to do what he did. One spergy whine: they misspelled "Qo'noS."  But, despite everyone's whinging that these movies are all SLAM BOOM ACTION!, they had Scotty say the magic words "aren't we supposed to be explorers?" It's a great "Science and Exploration Starfleet vs Military Starfleet" debate in the finest traditions of ST VI and TNG. Hell, I hope the next movie goes in a totally different direction and just has them out in some crazy far off part of the galaxy exploring and finding some new poo poo with no massive Federation/Earth threatening villain. Just weird wild space. Because another thing I've been saying for the past few years is while I wanted Khan in this movie, I would also have been happy with them ending a lot of the callbacks at that point. There's no need now to revisit every plot from TOS and the movies and remake TMP with V'Ger or even do poo poo with the Borg. Doing Khan gets that out of our system. Having Spock specifically come back to answer the question of "is Old Spock giving them spoilers?" by saying "Nope, but this ONE TIME I will" is a great way to put that entire question to bed. Now the Human Adventure can begin.
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May 18, 2013 19:47
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moths posted:The buildup really torpedoed the big reveal, for me at least. Abrams announced a list of villains not appearing in this film, and I'd have taken any of them over what he went with. Then there was Urban's red herring and casting a dead ringer for Gary Michell's girlfriend... And then it turned out that the initial rumors were right and yeah he really went there there. It was just... why? Nobody really wanted this, did they? It was me. I did, all along.Ensign_Ricky posted:To the people saying "Why didn't KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! get a trial?" Well, he already did. They spell it out pretty bluntly that in the JJ-Verse, Instead of Khan and his gang voluntarily taking off in the Botany Bay in order to escape trial, Khan et al were sentenced to Deep Freeze for their crimes. Hence why just before he SPLORTCH!es the Admiral's head he snarls "You should've let me sleep." Eh, it could go either way for me. I like to believe that the pre-WWIII records are so borked nobody knows, but I choose to believe whatever the truth is it's the same because the post Kelvin changes should not affect previous times.
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May 19, 2013 01:57
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Space Hamlet posted:Avoid the D Your patterns indicate two dimensional thinking. Red Crown posted:Spock finally gets Comms working - he has enough power to send ONE message. Well, it seemed like a good bet. If this was such a huge and terrible threat that was centuries old, yeah, maybe the guy from 120 years in an alternate future might have some insider pro tips. I just assumed that all the Starfleet ships were gone again, so the best response he'd get from Earth would have been "OK, thanks for letting us know, Enterprise! We're all pulling for you down here! Good luck!"  Of course, since that was apparently the One Lifeline that Old Spock's gonna give them, sucks to be Earth when V'Ger comes in 14 years. And the Whale Probe. Also just got back from a second viewing. Went with some Trekkie friends and they loved it. I also found the frenetic pacing to slow down and work smoother on a second viewing. When you've seen it once and have taken it all in, the plot beats hit and there seems to be breathing room and more tension in a good way. Things just flow better. Astroman fucked around with this message at 06:48 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 06:44
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Hot Sexy Jupiter posted:Wow, they actually one-upped the hull breach scene from the first movie: the Vengeance catching up with the Enterprise, making that horrible buzzing noise, blowing chunks out of the hull and crewmembers being sucked out at warp. Holy poo poo ... Yeah, that was totally awesome. Sounded like a horde of angry buzzing mechano-wasps coming to destroy you. 
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May 19, 2013 15:14
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Siroc posted:Do you want a villain today quoting Paradise Lost and Moby Dick? Yes. Pycckuu posted:
I think that it served a greater purpose than you think. If they didn't do that, then everyone would be sperging about "why didn't they just call Old Spock and get all the dirt on Khan? What a waste of a great cameo opportunity!" Also it puts to bed, for better or for worse, for the rest of the new franchise, why Old Spock isn't giving them cheat codes all the time. It was something that needed to be addressed, unless they were just going to forget he existed, which would have been lame.
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May 19, 2013 18:16
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Democratic Pirate posted:I've never watched Star Trek outside of these two films, but I'd like the next one to be more about the Prime Directive. Have a dude going around to different undeveloped civilizations and playing God to them for the fun of it while Kirk and crew try to stop him. I'm not entirely sure if that would work, but it'd be a fun way to explore a few different settings and worlds.  Asiina posted:Honestly, the It's not necessarily wrong, it's just two different schools of design from two different centuries approaching two different problems. The Defiant was a ship built specifically to take out a known threat: the Borg. The Vengeance was built to take out unknown possible future threats of big fuckoff poo poo like the Nerada showing up randomly because holy poo poo, THAT's what's out there? 
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May 19, 2013 21:28
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MadDogMike posted:the Klingon captain was pretty obviously planning to kill/harm Uhura when he drew his knife, so it wasn't Klingons acting in "self defense" in that case. I definitely got the impression Kirk was getting ready to come out guns blazing in any event, Khan's attack just gave him a perfect distraction he seized. The knife shot was pretty much put in there as a "Greedo shoots first" justification for Harrison (and maybe Kirk too) to fill their hands. It made Harrison's motivations somewhat more "good" and ambiguous to us. That scene would have read very different if we didn't see the knife.
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May 19, 2013 22:50
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I really don't get why we're still spoilerizing stuff ITT. Even in the TVIV thread we stopped doing spoilers, and there's been movie discussion ITT for like 3 weeks. Is there seriously anybody coming in here and reading cryptic half sentences covered in black bars that hasn't seen the movie? What are they getting out of it? Oh well. Phylodox posted:I'm a sucker for both film soundtracks and consistency. So while I liked Giacchino's soundtracks to the new Trek films, the consistency nut in me would love some more musical callbacks. Goldsmith's theme and Klingon motif from The Motion Picture especially. I was hoping for some thematic callbacks to Horner's TWOK theme myself. Mourning Due posted:As I didn't find Khan in WOK very compelling as above, I hated the scene with Old Spock acting like Khan had been that big a deal. Had his death been at Khan's hands I could have understood his reaction, but really what did Khan do to deserve the "greatest threat the Enterprise ever faced" moniker? -Within a day or two of being woken up he managed to take over the Enterprise -He and his fellow people from the 1990s figured out how to run a 2260s starship in a few days of reading technical manuals -When the first people beamed down to his place of exile in 20 years he immediately took over their Federation starship -He and his fellow people from the 1990s figured out how to run a 2280s starship in a couple of hours -He stole a top secret device from a secret lab that same day -He beat the Enterprise within seconds in their first encounter in an inferior ship -He severely damaged them in the next battle -He very nearly destroyed the Enterprise in a suicide bid with a ship that had no propulsion, shields, weapons, crew left alive, and massive damage Styles Bitchley posted:When Sulutook over as captain and made his announcement to Khan, did he say he would shoot the torpedos in TWO minutes? Wasn't sure if I heard that right. Couldn't be. Yeah, I caught that too on the rewatch. And in the next scene Spock says they are "three minutes" away from Harrison's position. Then they fight Klingons for like 10 min so 
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May 22, 2013 02:53
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Mourning Due posted:I suppose, but to me they faced much greater challenges on multiple occasions. I mean, he was a dick, but I would say the Klingons were a greater threat, that Charlie X and Gary Mitchell had greater power, and the Nomad space probe clearly had a much greater capacity for killing. Yes, he was deranged and single-minded, but I don't feel that he was effectively portrayed as a threat, not to the level that V'Ger or even Benedict's version were. The Klingons were a threat that would later become a friend. Khan's danger lies in his intelligence and adaptability plus evil intent. Charlie X and Gary Mitchell were gods, but with the minds of regular humans. V'Ger was vastly intelligent but had no ill intent underpinning it's agenda. Old Spock was thinking of it from the perspective of "of everything we went up against, what had the capacity for doing the most different kinds of damage in myriad ways in a timeline that has changed, and can't be one-shotted with a simple solution like flying a starship down it's throat." And yeah, he was probably letting his human side get the best of him there and taking it personal that Khan caused his death, therefore maybe giving Khan a higher threat level than was true.
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May 22, 2013 13:18
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Apollodorus posted:I think he was actually higher than that--he had four gold pips on his shoulderboards, making him an Admiral, whereas Marcus had five, suggesting he was a Fleet Admiral or Commander in Chief of Starfleet, or Commander-Starfleet, or whatever they want to call it. Kirk had 4 too. I can't figure out the ranks. Maybe they are shaped different? It made sense that Kirk was still wearing Captain's insignia in the first meeting after he'd been demoted, and he had 4. But I can't see Pike still wearing Captain's pips after being an Admiral for months. Maybe they are shaped different for different ranks too?
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May 22, 2013 20:48
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computer parts posted:If it did, we wouldn't have a Wrath of Khan movie. "Have you ever heard the proverb verse by Cypress Hill, Kirk? Don't you know...I'm loco!" Would make sense though, since Khan left earth in '96. He probably loves 90s jams. The true reason he started a war with Starfleet was his rage that all the 90s radio stations were gone.
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May 22, 2013 20:52
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Gianthogweed posted:Honestly I don't understand the whole pseudo-philosophical "I can't tell you what happened in my timeline because it would taint yours," BS Old Spock keeps bringing up in these movies. He already irreparably hosed up the timeline. Everything is unfolding differently now. Nothing he "predicts" holds much weight anymore anyway so he might as well tell all. I have major issues with it because Old Spock is dooming them to a lot of poo poo. Sure, nothing he knows politically is correct, and the technology is so bootstrapped because of the Narada that they'll probably be at Old Spock's level in 30 years. But poo poo like V'Ger? The Doomsday Machine? The Whale Probe? To say nothing of dangers like the Borg and Dominion. V'Ger is out there, it's coming in what, 14 years? What if Kirk and the gang are off cataloging gaseous anomalies or Boldly Going out in some other quadrant and Captain B Team and his crew on The Only Ship In The Sector can't figure it out? I do appreciate though that they at least addressed it. Same with there being a logical in universe explanation that Khan was found early because of the timeline changes instead of just letting it hang out in the wind and everyone would be debating it forever.  : "Why don't they just call Old Spock and ask him?" would be heard over and over otherwise.
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May 23, 2013 04:57
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Riso posted:Interestingly there were also 84 pods mentioned in the original show, but 12 failed. Even more interestingly is that there were 84 pods total in Space Seed, 12 failed. Leaving 72. In the movie, where Khan is woken 5-6 years earlier, there were 72 pods plus his. This would be perfect if we assume that they were failing every few years--waking him up early means one more working pod. I have no idea, of course, if this wasn't just a mistake in addition by the writers, but it's neat especially if it was intentional.
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May 24, 2013 00:21
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jivjov posted:Something I haven't seen enough praise for this far is the music and sound design. Into Darkness simply sounds beautiful. Despite its bombasticy, Khan's theme is great, and I'm glad they didn't lean as heavily on the Enterprising Young Men theme as they did in Trek '09. I was just talking about this in the TVIV thread. The big difference between this movie and any old Star Trek movie, such as TWOK, where the soundtrack was so memorable, is that you can barely hear it. In the theater it's buried under sfx and explosions, whereas in TWOK you can really hear Horner's stuff. Listening to the ID soundtrack on it's own, it's really good. I wish it got more of it's due in the movie. But I think that's just modern film for ya.
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May 24, 2013 03:22
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ID wasn't a remake of TWOK any more than TWOK was a remake of Space Seed. And a movie can be a remake of an episode. For example, TMP was a remake of The Changeling. TWOK was about revenge and aging. Other than Khan, who wasn't the protagonist, wanting revenge on Admiral Marcus, there wasn't much revenge in this one. The themes of this one are exploration vs military in Starfleet, and personal responsibility and growth.
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May 24, 2013 20:30
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 05:28 |
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MrBims posted:Fake-Kirk sounds like a fourteen year old kid trying to make sure his parents don't hear him talking. I don't know if I can stomach much of him. Sulu: "Captain, I've been in space all this time and I haven't had one woman yet!" I know nobody knew (or did they?) but it never gets old. I'll watch that fanfilm tomm. I did look at a few seconds of it and it seems it suffers from the same issues that New Voyages/Phase II does: they nail the sets, fx, sound, and music. But they acting just isn't there. Granted, they have the Son of Scotty, and these guys are all pros, unlike (many) of the actors on New Voyages. But I still feel they'd be far better served if they had done what long gone Exeter fanfilm guys did, and have NEW characters on a different ship in the TOS era instead of trying to duplicate TOS and the Enterprise crew. Granted, since JJ Trek came out it's not as much heresy as it was when New Voyages debuted to have other actors play the parts Shatner and the gang did. But you'd be less up for comparisons and more judged on your own acting merit if you had a new character. Still, if they can manage to turn out episodes on a more regular basis than Phase II they'll have that going for them.
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May 25, 2013 06:18
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