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The plots are starting to get a little repetitive. I'm hoping the next one skips the McGuffin and goes in a new direction. TMP: Something is going to destroy Earth II: A madman wants revenge on Kirk III: The Enterprise crew rescue Spock IV: Something is going to destroy Earth V: A madman wants to find god VI: Continuing the cold with with the Klingons VII: A madman wants to go to heaven VIII: Something is going to destroy Earth IX: A madman wants to live forever X: A madman wants to destroy Earth XI: A madman wants to destroy Earth XII: A madman wants to take over Earth Destroy Earth: 5/12 Madman: 7/12 Other: 2/12 I know these are a little simplified, but how many more times do we have to see the same thing play out again?
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Apr 18, 2013 22:45
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scary ghost dog posted:Are you saying too many Star Trek movies have villains? I'd just like to see the next movie not be centered around "One INSANE man and his McGuffin" and for the story to take place away from Earth. If you're just going to recycle those two well-establish story lines over and over again, then you're not forging new territory and you're letting yourself get lazy, predictable, and your stories to just be variations on the same old theme. Like I said before, I'm 99% sure I'll love this movie, but I would like the next one to do something different than "Enterprise has to defeat a very big ship or Earth is finished".
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Apr 19, 2013 02:08
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Pibborando San posted:Why change up the formula when the same old same old will still get people (like you) into the theater? Not saying I agree with that line of thinking, I'm with you, but your money says "please keep doing this." It's the Catch 22 of franchises. You want something new, but will see the rehashed old stuff because you want the franchise to live so you can see something new.
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Apr 19, 2013 13:14
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Gatts posted:For the Undiscovered Country a ship that could fire when cloaked I'd say can be classified as a super weapon. It is rare and hard to do in the Trek universe. While it is a "superweapon" its purpose was to frame Kirk and prevent the peace talks instead of taking over the galaxy. The "villain" in ST:VI was a conspiracy of Federation, Romulan, and Klingon military personnel who wanted the status quo instead of "Glactic Rule", or "Destroy Earth". It was refreshing to see a Star Trek plot without an Obsessed-Superman Villain with a Superweapon that will totally destroy Earth. The plot was basically lifted from 1991 and the fall of the Soviet Union, and it is easily one of my favourite Star Trek movies. Wrath of Khan and TMP are great, but that was before they just rehashed the same plot a million times. It's sort of like watching Dirty Harry. Everything is a horrible cliché, but only became that way after every cop movie from then on started copying what it did. DentArthurDent posted:I posted this in one of the previous threads: Nice, that makes things a lot more clear. Although "overused" might be more appropriate than "clinched".
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Apr 19, 2013 17:13
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Star Trek really needs to bring in the middle-aged woman demographic. Spock and Uhura's relationship becomes strained as he is unable to reciprocate the feelings that Uhura expects from him. To complicate matters, a rich Vulcan lieutenant joins the crew and uses her common ground to slowly take Spock away from Uhura. After Uhura finds incriminating messages on Spock's PADD, the two separate and Uhura transfers to another ship. The two are reunited at a conference on gaseous anomalies, and Spock realizes that Uhura is pregnant, and using his superior Vulcan brain, ascertains that he is the father given how far along she is in the pregnancy. They realize that they are meant for each other and save the Federation (and Earth) from the Vulcan lieutenant who turns evil and hijacks a massive ship due to Spock rejecting her. In the end Spock and Uhura discover that a real relationship depends on compromise, and their baby grows up to be Tuvok.
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Apr 20, 2013 02:21
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Zotix posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il7aSvhN3bE Are you implying that Picard can't jump from a 2nd story window while one-handing a rifle? Or are you implying that he can't grow hair?
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Apr 20, 2013 03:11
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Maxwell Lord posted:The difference is, I can see myself watching Final Frontier once in a while- it's not a good movie but it's bright and goofy and dumb in the way that some movies of that era were and there are some funny moments and so on. Nemesis is just not fun to watch. It looks dreary, it moves slowly (but not like in TMP where there at least seems to be a reason for things to move slowly), there's no energy to any of it. I would have liked to have seen Shatner's original idea for Final Frontier, just to see if it would have turned out better than what we got. Reading the Wiki article seems to indicate that they had to cut a hell of a lot of corners due to strikes, costs, issues with locations, and some disagreements amongst the cast about what their characters would have done. Final Frontier, like you said wasn't as "epic" as the other story lines, but it was entertaining and a "feel good" Star Trek movie, much like The Voyage Home. Now Nemesis on the other hand was just awful! It had the best starship battles since WOK and DS9, but everything else was horrible. I saw it in theaters, went home and came to the conclusion that it couldn't have been worse than Insurrection. I saw it again in the theater a few days later. I attribute that to some manner of victim mentality, revisiting the scene of the crime to show yourself it actually happened. On second viewing I was positive it was as bad as I had throught, and even found more horrible things about it I missed during the first viewing. It was nearly bad enough for a "rape shower".
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Apr 21, 2013 01:17
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Great_Gerbil posted:Nemesis is pretty bad in a lot of ways, but I don't think it deserves all the scorn it gets heaped on it. It's atmospheric and I enjoy the cinematography quite a bit. And, as Blistex said, it had a really great space battle. I left the theater smiling so I can't count it as a total loss. The movie looked beautiful, sound was great, good camera work, etc. but it didn't make up for all of its sins. My biggest gripes fall into two catagories: General complaints: B-4 and how Shinzon's plan seemed to hinge on the Enterprise finding him, putting him together, and letting him access their computer and kidnap Picard? Shinzon's motivation made no sense. "The Romulans were mean to me, so I took them over and will now kill everyone on Earth". What? Actors phoning it in. (apparently they didn't get along well with the director) Pacing was really strange, and every time there was a lull, they tried to "up" the tension with a mind-rape. Picard and Data took up about 98% of the screen time. We get it, some fans would love nothing better than to watch them and nobody else, not me. Picard's character, acts out of character. Goofy, careless, shocked to the point of standing and waiting to die. Humour seemed to be really juvenile and shoe-horned in at strange times. Right at the beginning the Romulan senator is arguing that joining with Shinzon will make them "Stronger than even the Federation". How? One slave planet, which the Romulans already control will somehow make them unstoppable? That's like France saying, "If we join forces with French Polynesia, we will be even stronger than the US". You already own it, how is that going to make you stronger?  complaints:What the hell is Wesley doing there? Isn't he supposed to be some sort of space ghost? Romulan Ale. . . because Worf loves Romulan stuff all of a sudden? Let's go shoot up the natives of a Pre-Contact planet. drat! The crew looks old, somehow the TOS crew during ST:VI (being even older) looked more capable. Bottomless pit in the Enterprise E? Did the Emperor from Star Wars have a hand in the design? MIND RAPE! I'm in the middle of a very precise plan, and I want everything to go well, but I need some mind-sex. The Romulans, who have been established as masters of spying don't notice their slaves building a gently caress-off huge ship? We're going to make a clone that takes 30 years to grow, then he rapid-ages to be in-line with Picard. . . around retirement age? 80's action move body count from Picard alone. Reverse-mind rape can tell you exactly where in space a person is located. ADMIRAL JANEWAY! Shinzon's ship can overtake the Enterprise at maximum warp, despite it having a head start? The only thing I really went, "YES!" to during the movie was when they used the phasers to detect Shinzon's cloaked ship. Blistex fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 04:32
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FrensaGeran posted:Agreed. I love when they finally do something in a movie that I have been shouting at the screen for years for them to do. My number one "shout at screen" thing has always been, "You just destroyed one enemy by hitting it with 4 photons, do it again to the other two!" The TNG episode where they send Tasha back in time with the Enterprise C is a perfect example. Three Klingon Birds of prey show up. They destroy one in 5 seconds, but just sit there doing nothing until they are destroyed. Do they have to carry those torpedoes by hand from another part of the ship to launch them? "poo poo, we just fired all 4 in the tubes, maybe we should have had another 4 waiting?" Ah, sperging out over Trek. If only my basement was habitable, then everything would be right in the world.
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Apr 21, 2013 05:37
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Hot Sexy Jupiter posted:I liked it in First Contact when they suddenly remembered they could fire torpedoes in bursts instead of one at a time and consequently spew a billion of them at the cube. Forgot about that! Most of the time Picard acts like every torpedo fired comes out of his paycheque.
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Apr 21, 2013 06:48
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pik_d posted:Voyager did this against the Vidians in the hall of mirrors in the episode Phage (5th episode of season 1). I'm quoting this so your shame will. . . kidding. I guess even Voyager can do something right once in a while.
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Apr 21, 2013 15:33
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AlternateAccount posted:And if they can actually give Cumberbatch some humanity and a good story, he could easily be one of the best Trek villains, the competition is pretty low. Nero and Shinzon were just one-dimensional badguys who were all, "Argh! I'm going to blow up Earth because. . . stuff!" Khan at least had the motivation of revenge because his wife was killed, and even the guy from Insurrection had a motivation what was understandable. I sort of liked Soran from Generations because he was just an obsessed person who wanted to get back into heaven due to his tragic life being too unbearable. He wasn't really going out of his way to kill people, they were just in his way. I'm right there with you, in that Cucumberpatch should have some manner of real motivation instead of, "Ahhhhh I hate Kirk and Earth!" or it's just going to be another badguy who is evil because... "stuff".
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Apr 21, 2013 22:52
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Great_Gerbil posted:Maybe it's a stupid question, but what makes a character one dimensional? That they're cookie cutter or that their motivation is hollow? To me, a one-dimensional villain is a character who's motivations are either not explained, or make no sense. Both Shinzon and Nero wanted to destroy Earth because...? I can sort of see Nero wanting to destroy Vulcan because it was Spock's home, and Nero saw his destroyed "at the hands of Spock"*, but Earth was just tacked on to keep the stakes high. Shinzon on the other hand makes no loving sense. *apparently trying to save your planet and failing is vicious intent.
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Apr 22, 2013 02:12
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ODC posted:Nero also had the motivation of revenge because his wife was killed. True, but Spock and the Federation didn't personally maroon her on a planet next to a Supernova like Kirk did... I just now realized how much they recycled from Wrath of Khan! bobkatt013 posted:I thought he wanted to destroy earth because it was also Spock's home. It was also where starfleet was based and they said they would help and failed. That still doesn't make sense to me. Spock and the Federation use their fastest ship to try and stop a supernova. Spock races to the source, drops the red matter, but it is too late, Romulus is destroyed! It seems lazy. That would be like making a move about a husband who loses his wife in the WTC attack, and decides to kill everyone in the New York Fire Dept, for not preventing the attack. But, because it's "space" this line of thinking is totally acceptable.
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Apr 22, 2013 13:29
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bobkatt013 posted:Also Kirk did not know that it is was a There is a difference though. Kirk physically put Khan and his wife on that planet.* Spock and the Federation did not put Nero's wife on Romulus, and even tried to save them. *technically, Khan chose to be put there, but the only other option was prison. Anyway, I think a lot of 2009's flaws can be blamed on the writer's strike and JJ being unable to do anything about the script due to membership obligations. Given that there isn't a strike now, Into Darkness doesn't have that excuse, and JJ and crew should be able to put a little more effort into the script to give us a villain who is more than a Snidely Whiplash saying, "I wanna destroy Earth sooooooOOOOoooo Baaaaaad!" (spoken in Macho Man Randy Savage's Voice)
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Apr 22, 2013 15:14
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BrandonGK posted:"Hi Christopher, I'm Nero." Everyone in the theater gave me strange looks when I cracked up at this line. (Watched it opening day in Korea)
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Apr 22, 2013 15:51
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:This was the best line of the film, because though it did happen to Nero, he also knew how crazy it sounds in the timeline he is in and knows drat well how crazy it makes him look, but gently caress it, he did see it happen and he is constantly convincing himself that because it did happen he needs to do something about it, henceforth fulfilling the self inflicted crazy man prophecy. When Nero traveled back in time he could have left a letter with the Vulcan post office saying, "At Stardate #######.# there will be a supernova at coordinated #####. Please tell Spock to be ready with a ship and some red matter. Love Nero XOXOXO".
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Apr 22, 2013 20:35
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twoot posted:The deleted scene of Nero in the Klingon slave camp was quite good. I assume it had to be removed because it would have lead to questions like; what the hell did the Klingons do with the Narada for 20 years. Duh! Gluing spikes to it... obviously!
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Apr 23, 2013 02:56
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Hasters posted:Nothing. It was unfamiliar Romulan/Borg hybrid technology that for all intents and purposes seemed to be dead after the Kelvin slammed into it. They had no way of knowing it could, or would, repair itself. Borg? Was that in the DVD extras or something? Why did they need a ship 100 years in the future to be 1/2 borg? Being that far ahead technology wise should have been more than enough to explain why it was able to destroy a federation fleet and a bunch of Klingon ships as well. Also, when has mixing Borg tech and non-borg tech ever resulted in good things happening? Shouldn't the ship have turned "Borg" and said, "screw y'all Romulan bitches, we're going assimilatin! YeeeHaw!" (Borg ships sound like Southern Stereotypes in my head)
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Apr 23, 2013 04:55
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Pops Mgee posted:The Borg thing comes from the prequel comics which are fanwank and aren't canon from what I've heard. Hahahaha! Oh my god! Borg, timetravel. . . please tell me the comics were 99% Data shenanigans to complete the trifecta. Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Y'all gonna be assimilated. Reckon there ain't no point in resistin'. "My designation is (shows two fingers) of (shows seven fingers*) of unimatrix 1,2,3,4 . . . 5?" *all on one hand
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Apr 23, 2013 05:17
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So Glorious. . . should have sent a poet.  It's like a Vulcan just sat down in Data's office, told him how much he sucks, and how he will never be a real boy, and then Data walks off to contemplate suicide. Is this pretty typical of Star Trek literature? (over-the-top pandering to the greasiest and nerdiest of fans) The only experience I have with it is getting a copy of "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" for Christmas when I was a kid (kicked rear end), and reading a novel where the crew of the Enterprise D are taken over by Romulans and explore a hollow planet. I was probably 11 or 12 so I don't remember how good/bad it was. Blistex fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 05:26
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Aatrek posted:Welp, that does it for me, I guess. See you all in three weeks. An older friend said he remembered when they were showing WOK in the theaters and they had back-to-back showings of it, and they had to make people who had just watched it leave through the fire exit because everyone was exclaiming, "OH MY GOD THEY KILLED SPOCK!" He said they did the same for Empire Strikes back.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:35
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OrganizedEntropy posted:Truthfully, I just want to see ships going to warp and shooting at each other. They could remake "Errand of Mercy". Middle of a Federation Klingon war, lots of ships shooting each other, lots of phaser fights on the planet. And the Organians could bring the war to a conclusion so that the next movie doesn't have to explain how the war stopped, or having it going on in the background. They seem hell-bent on recycling old Trek, so might as well go with something like that. That way we don't have ONE INSANE GUY trying to blow up Earth alone, but instead a ruthless Klingon commander doing his part against the Federation. I don't know if I'm alone here, but I've always wanted to see the Klingons and Federation duke it out on an even footing (no birds of prey please), and a with the exception of a few episodes of DS9, we havn't really seen this. I sort of feel that TNG "neutered" the Klingons by making them the Federation's ally.
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Apr 24, 2013 05:21
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Cellophane S posted:Reading a bullet point list can make any movie sound dumb Exactly. You could make a bullet point list of Shawshank Redemption if you wanted that would make it sound horrible.
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Apr 24, 2013 13:10
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Considering how much money it is making, I guess we're going to get a third Wrath of Khan remake from J.J. (assuming he's not too busy half-assing Star Wars). Look forward to "One crazed super-villain with a doomsday weapon who attacks Earth" coming 2016. What I would like them to do for the next one is have the Enterprise and crew in the middle of a full-scale war with the klingons. The first 15 minutes could be just straight up action showing how the Feds and Klingons are pouring huge amounts of resources into the meat-grinder and how it looks like neither side is going to really walk away with a clear-cut victory. Somehow a plot is uncovered where it becomes apparent that there is a 3rd party pulling the strings and hoping to take advantage of a weakened federation and klingon empire (just to take more territory, not blow up earth!). The enterprise is dispatched to find proof, stop the 3rd party, whatever. Meanwhile there is a klingon commander who has a vendetta against Kirk and the enterprise because they blew up his son's ship or disabled his and didn't even bother to finish him off, he could be chasing Kirk and they eventually have a final battle or work together to defeat the 3rd part. In the end there could be a truce, or both sides ally against the third party. You get your gratuitous action. You get your high-stakes plot You get your intelligent/shadowy enemy. You get your crazy/obsessed villain. And it can all get a nice little bow to end it.
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May 24, 2013 15:19
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armoredgorilla posted:I couldn't find the never-ending headspin gif or I would have linked that. A single throwback line in the middle of a Klingon vs Fed battle could be, "Good thing we foiled Admiral Robocop's plan! Huh?" I would like to see anything, almost anything other than "Villain threatens Earth". Hell a bad guy that steals Spock's brain and then goes faster than warp 10 and turns in to a salamander almost seems better than another loving rehash of WOK. They did WOK perfectly the first time, every time they try to do it over it gets worse and worse. Just anything DIFFERENT would be nice for a change.
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May 24, 2013 17:05
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Danger posted:'There was no story' is either real lazy criticism or some form of illiteracy or something. I think it would be better to say that it had a lazy, incoherent story that only existed to introduce action sequences and visuals. The 5 minutes where they go through the plot (which was accurate) sounded like an 8 year old making up a story. If you can't explain a movie's plot in a minute or less, then it's either a poorly written story, or 34 hours long. You could say that they went into a little too much detail summing up the plot, but if you missed even two or three of the points, then the movie makes absolutely no sense. . . well less sense since it didn't make much to begin with. I find the best stories are the ones that focus on one thing, and don't reply on 50+ plot twists and double-crossing. They put as many plot twists in this one film as there were in the previous 11. I wanted to like this, and even going into it with lowered expectations, I was thoroughly disappointed with the story. Like the RLM guys said, it looked great, but at no point was my brain acknowledging there was a worthwhile story to follow.
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May 24, 2013 22:55
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Spaceman Future! posted:Which on many levels is pretty true. I think that JJ is really weak when it comes to asserting what he thinks is a passable script, or is in fact really weak in the story department. There have been directors who have sat down with the writers or even new ones and totally re-wrote scripts to make them acceptable. If JJ said, "I don't think this story is acceptable, you need to re-do it so it doesn't suck" there is a good chance it might happen as he (like you said) saved the previous one, and only his directing ability managed to make this not look and play like a Sci-Fi original movie.
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May 25, 2013 00:46
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I think, by far, the best thing to come out of this film is John Cho taking the piss and passive-aggressively giving JJ Abrams and the casting director poo poo in interviews.
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May 30, 2013 14:02
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Finally watched Into Darkness again and I figured out what was annoying me about Cumberbatch's acting. Does the guy always talk like he is trying to pop his ears/unhinge his jaw? It almost looked like he was trying to get someone in a car in the next lane to lip-read what he was saying. Did anyone else pick up on that, or am I just seeing things?
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Feb 12, 2014 17:15
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Was looking for a video on the new USN Supercarriers and found something magical. The typical undertakings of a nerdy 11 year old, being discussed with the seriousness that only a +30 year old Trek fan, pretending to be Frank Lloyd Wright can muster. It's a 13 minutes long (completely legit) "tour" of a man's journey to "design a better Starship Enterprise". Skip ahead to 7:00 to see the scribblings of a madman, and at 8:50 there are actual scribbles. At 7:11 I let out an audible laugh upon hearing a line that goes counter to the seriousness of the established tone so far. Around 11:00 it gets into some  territory. Star Trek's best entertainment value is easily its more hardcore fans.
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Apr 9, 2014 06:23
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penismightier posted:Hahahaha misspelling Matt Jefferies's name in the opening dedication is a hell of a start. Hassling Gene Roddenberry’s widow and getting an, “It’s so nice I’ll put it up on my fridge” reply is the best ending.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:36
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