|
I have a general history question. Its not really roman history, but since this is the only history thread I can find, I'll post it here. Does anyone know what the oldest surviving date written is?By that I mean a AD/CE date written on a document or artifact that is believed to be accurate. I have tried to google for this, but nothing comes up. It doesn't seem to be a "category" that historians recognize. I nominate this drawing by Albrecht Durer: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Self-portrait_at_13_by_Albrecht_D%C3%BCrer.jpg It has the date 1484 written on it, and it is believed to be from 1484. I have personally never seen one older than this, but I am wondering if anyone here knows of any older one...
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2024 20:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 18, 2024 18:08 |
|
|
Deteriorata posted:The BC/AD system was proposed in 525 AD and spread rapidly, so there are likely going to be lots of documents from around that time dated that way. The thing is, Dionysius Exiguus's original manuscripts doesn't survive. I'm looking for the oldest example that survives. Let me ask this question another way. Does anybody know of a surviving document or artifact from the years 1400 to 1484 that still exists and is believed to not be a fake, and also has the year written on it?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2024 21:30
|
|
|
Goatse James Bond posted:Internet suggests tablets from the reigns of various Sumerian kings might be the winners if we stick with "original document must exist and have a date", like someone else said In my opinion, it has to be an AD date. Yes, you can convert a date from one calendar system to another calendar system, that conversion is not perfect, especially when that calendar system is from pre-history. A date written in AD doesn't have to be converted, and therefore can be assumed to be completely accurate.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2024 22:20
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The oldest surviving Western paper document is the Missal of Silos. According to that link, the author of that document never wrote what date it was written. Scholars have to use various methodologies to determine the age, and even then they don't have an exact age. If the author had written "This document is being written in 1089", then there would be no discussion, the exact date is right there. quote:he paper dates to the 11th century and depending on different sources, the very specific the dates of 1072 or even 1036 might appear. However, I have not found arguments strong enough for either of those dates. What is definitely true is that Manuscript number 6, as it is also known in the monastery, was definitely written before 1089 – and so, its paper, must predate that year as well. This is the thing I have noticed. Dates written are very rare (in any calendar system) from before the Renaissance in Europe. At some point during the late 15th century, for whatever reason, the AD dating system became common. What interesting about the late 1400s, is that since then the AD system has been in common and continuous usage. This si why Bede and Dionysus don't count. After they made their calculations, the system just did not see common and continuous usage. This is why it can be said that Albrecht Durer's drawing from 1484 is exactly 540 years old. There is no "some historians say its this old, and some, other historians think it's that old"
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2024 23:23
|
|
|
CrypticFox posted:Several 7th century BCE copies of the Assyrian year name list record that in the year when Bur-Sagalę held the office of limmu, a total solar eclipse was observed in the month of Simanu. So I looked into this and came across this link: https://historiarex.com/e/en/77-bur-sagale-eclipse Its not so cut and dry. First off, the word they used to describe the eclipse translates to "twisted sun". I guess you could say thats an eclipse, but it could also be something else. Also eclipses occur too often to acurately match ancient documents. The link I posted even mentions another eclipse happening in 791 that could also be the eclipse mention in the text (assuming it's even referring to an eclipse in the first place). There was also multiple eclipses that happened in the 800s, 900s, 600s, 500s, BC also. This is why I think "written dates" are more accurate and interesting than "historian derived dates".
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2024 02:07
|
|