Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

I watched this with Relin last night. Overall, I thought it was alright, but I had problems with several things from a story perspective:

- Mari is really sort of a nothing character, and one of the weakest parts of the Rebuild movies overall for me. Her role in 2.22 was basically pilot Unit-02 because the plot needed her to, and her role in 3.33 is 'shoot the rifle'. You don't get a sense of her motivation of why she's piloting Eva-08 or why she allied with Wille in particular, and her scenes feel like the writers needed to give her something to do. You can have enigmatic characters in movies, but you have to give some hint of why they're doing what they're doing.

- Asuka is sort of one-dimensional too. Like with Mari, you have no real sense of why she's with Wille or why she continues to pilot Unit-02. In the second movie it was the drive to impress and to be the best because so much of her identity was tied to piloting Eva, but I found myself wondering what her relationship was to other characters. Felt like more exposition was needed for her and Mari to give a little more oomph to the fight at the climax.

- One thing I found myself wondering with Shinji and Eva in this movie was if it was so important that he not pilot Eva again because he caused Third Impact, why didn't Wille just tell him what happened fourteen years ago? I guess they kind of answered this by saying they needed to 'regulate his emotions' or whatever, but it felt like, "Hey, let's treat Shinji badly but make him act the way we want him to act. It worked out so well before!"

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 17:21

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 12, 2024 21:18

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Zore posted:

Probably because

1) Shinji deliberately murders Kowaru who wasn't even in an Eva and wasn't fighting him.

2) Has lost basically everyone else in his life at that point. Tokyo 3 is all but destroyed, Rei is dead (and has showed him how monstrous everyone at NERV is), Asuka and Toji are hospitalized because of him, and all his school friends have moved away. Hell even Pen-Pen is gone.

3) Kowaru is the only person to ever actually offer Shinji unconditional love which is something he has spent the entire series yearning for.

Don't forget that Misato, his guardian for the entire series, tried to have sex with him, and his kind-of mentor Kaji is dead.

Is Asuka in the hospital because of him? I thought she just had a mental breakdown following the Arael/Armisael fights.

Soul Reaver posted:

My argument started with me saying that the preview for Evangelion 3.0+1.0 looked bad (because it seemed to be following the same vein as Evangelion 3.0).
The reasons I gave for the above was a lack of pacing/buildup and identifiable stakes during the setpiece battles, very blatant CGI, and ridiculous mecha designs, as well as a presentation that failed to make me personally care about anything that was happening.
I went on to comment on 3.0, stating it suffers from a 'tell, don't show' style of storytelling, which is usually considered bad writing in a visual medium such a film.
I then commented how 3.0 would have been a better film if we had actually seen the events in the timeskip, as it would have lent additional weight and meaning to the events we see in the film (as well as eliminated the need to tell rather than show)

I made a bitter throwaway comment about an Evangelion turning into a sort of cat during 'beast mode' in 3.0 (something I think looks ridiculous and out-of-place)
Someone decided to engage with me on this one and say that because Evangelion is full of fantastical elements surely this is just fine.
I responded by stating it wasn't, on the basis that it runs contrary to established worldbuilding done by Evangelion in the past (relating to the Evangelion Unit's physical shape, lack of transforming abilities, and nature of their armour), and how consistent worldbuilding is important to preserve that artifice of a fantasy/science fiction setting for the audience. I felt that consistency was compromised by this event which, to date, has not actually added anything of interest or meaning to the plot of the film or series beyond it being a thing that happened.

I just popped into this thread after rewatching Eva/EoE and I must say that I really like your post, especially these two parts. I remember being excited to see the preview at the end of 2.0, but being letdown ultimately by 3.0. An overlooked thing about the Rebuild movies that I liked were the little worldbuilding elements: the aquarium/purification plant, political things like the Vatican treaty, just showing other NERV personnel, etc. that gave the movies a little bit of 'realism'. Rebuild 3.0--while it's definitely something you should watch!--had things like the ships on strings, the floating space whale ship, NERV being basically just 2 guys that can do anything somehow, that undermined the worldbuilding from the previous two movies. 3.0+1.0 continued that, with a two-dude NERV seemingly able to launch waves of monsters from across the globe.

I don't want to just say "it doesn't feel like Eva" (even though it doesn't), because it doesn't even feel like movies 1 and 2.

HobbitGrease fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jul 11, 2019

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 13:25

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Tythas posted:

I think I missed this when I watched when did it happen?

The original ADV dub gets rid of the line, but in episode 23 after Rei II self-destructs Unit-00, there's a scene back in the apartment where Shinji is on the bed and talks about how the tears won't come. Misato reaches out with her hand and says 'This is all that I can do for you.' after a weird cut with some phallic symbolism.

(According to Evageeks, the Newtype Filmbook written with Gainax says right out that she was offering her body to him.)

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 14:40

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Ogmius815 posted:

It�s the scene after Rei II dies where she comes into his room and sits on his bed. Then she says something like �this is all I can do to comfort you� and touches his hand.

I�ve always thought the scene was more ambiguous than some Eva fans have made out (the orthodox opinion is that she was definitely proposing that they have sex at that time). While Misato certainly has encouraged Shinji to view her as a sexual object (Jesus that picture in episode 1...), and the orthodox reading certainly isn�t �wrong,� there isn�t anything in that scene that unambiguously says she was propositioning him. Her statement is vague, and I worry about anyone who thinks someone touching their hand comfortingly means they are definitely proposing sex.

You're right, it's ambiguous, and her intent maybe a subconscious part of her character, but it is a reading that would support why Shinji suddenly becomes afraid of going back home and of Misato in episode 24. His fear of Rei after the dummy plug tank destruction is justifiable, but becoming afraid of Misato after she tried to touch his hand would be a bit of an overreaction.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 14:53

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Irony Be My Shield posted:

The original scene is ambiguous but there's a scene in episode 25 (or 26?) of the show where she feels guilty about propositioning Shinji, making it clear that was her intention.

25. You're thinking of the college days scene? Not sure if that's about the propositioning or more about her 'dirty' side in general.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 15:13

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Paracelsus posted:

It's possible to comfort someone with human contact without sex happening. If she'd hugged him while saying it, would we be having this discussion?

The "we'll do the rest when you get back" is super blatant, but touching his hand and saying "this is all I can do for you" doesn't automatically go into ero-doujin territory.

I mean, if the scene was Misato hugging him in the Eva cage afterwards, then no, we wouldn't. The rest of the series would probably play out very differently.

This isn't "HobbitGrease thinks Misato was propositioning Shinji because she touched her hand! Eva fans think light contact is propositioning! Ho ho!" poo poo like some assholes were saying, and I'm not saying this is something completely unambiguous because nothing in Eva really is. This is just how I read it based on the other elements going into the scene (the weird cut beforehand with the chair and Shinji's crotch dead-center, the possible Chekhov's gun from the "funny" conversation with Ritsuko in episode 2) and out of the scene (Shinji's reaction, his fear of Misato and his running away from the apartment, possibly Misato's Instrumentality scene).

It's not supposed to be something sexy or like a doujin. It's supposed to be something tragic and gross: two characters unable to totally connect and comfort each other on an emotional level, so one disastrously tries to comfort the only way she knows how and causes even bigger problems.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2019 20:50

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

EthanSteele posted:

Whatever you think of them, the true crime of the Rebuilds is cutting that episode. It's so good.

Also known as: �The Episode Where the N2 Mines Are Somewhat Effective�

Tune in a couple episodes later for: �The Pallet Guns Worked?!�

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 00:45

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

FilthyImp posted:

Tokyo-3 is mostly empty so there's solar reflectors around that channel light into the Geofront.

I think they showed a shot in Rebuild, maybe in the TV version, of the tall, flat reflectors during the scene where Misato takes Shinji to the overlook.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2019 20:34

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 12, 2024 21:18

HobbitGrease: Jul 24, 2001; Young Orc

Mari in the Rebuild movies just seemed like a total non-character to me, even after Thrice Upon a Time. Felt like her characterization was a casualty of just having too much stuff to get through in the movies.

My EoE showing was about 40+ people, and I was totally ready for some That Guy laughs or awful jokes during the hospital scene, but everyone was actually very respectful. Seeing it in theaters though does remind me how much it sucks that we're probably not getting new Evangelion stuff outside of merch, pachinko machines, janky game crossovers, and maybe an OVA here and there on an anniversary for the foreseeable future. I guess it could be worse though (cough ANIMA cough).

# ¿ Mar 25, 2024 22:00

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author