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Inspector Gesicht posted:It helps if the Kickstarter takes inspiration from a game that wasn't good in the first place. Shovel Knights owes a big debt to Zelda II of all things. zelda 2 ruled
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Apr 24, 2024 05:36
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Push El Burrito posted:I still say "grabbin pills" when I go get a bottle of aspirin or something.  I think Back 4 Blood could have been good, except for the insanely stupid and bad "power card" system or whatever the gently caress. It was just like the insanely stupid and bad "star card" system EA put into Battlefront 2, 100% pure loot crate bait. Actually playing the game was fun and there were a lot of cool setpieces, but holy poo poo the stupid card system. Just give me a guy or a lady who can maybe do a thing, and some guns and like, sharpened rakes and let me go hog wild! I don't want or need to build a deck of cards to unlock "baseball bat +10% damage to stunned enemies", I just want to hit the monster until it explodes 
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Apr 24, 2024 07:54
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Biplane posted:I just want to hit the monster until it explodes An odd euphemism, but I'll allow it.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:00
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Biplane posted:
Also its weapon system was unnccessarily overcomplicated just for the sake of having "more". L4D had it figured out just right: lovely starter guns for the first part of a mission to make you scrape and struggle a bit, then a selection of actually good guns, all about equally powerful, at determined checkpoints. Gives you a nice sense of progression and added power as you go along, while also allowing for a consistent escalation in enemy numbers without overwhelming the players.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:34
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What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? I watched the Suicide Squad review by Monty Zander and it's full of nonsense like "criticals do extra damage but regular damage heal them." On the other hand it was a surprise that Mass Effect 3's skill system actually tallied the numbers up in an easy to read manner.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:34
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? A game that got it quite good after a billion patches is actually Diablo 3. They broke down stats in three broad categories - damage, defense, regeneration - and showed a quick representation of how those change for new equipment. On console, there's even a quick equip when you pick up something shiny and better, don't have to go into the menu, it's brilliant. Also, the weapons don't have damage and attack speed as the only values, they have a combined DPS stat too so you can tell at a glance if a hammer is better than a sword despite it being slower. Sure, if you want to optimize your build for idk thorns synergy or go nitty gritty with a mix of elemental types, you have to dig a bit deeper, but that's also kinda what you're playing the game for at some point. The most baffling thing about this is that Diablo 4 doesn't have the quick equip and its menus are also somehow worse.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:52
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An Actual Princess posted:zelda 2 ruled Zelda 2 is one of those weird cases where the sequel to a beloved game wasn't bad, just different, and the fans were so mad that they changed it that they refused to recognize that the game was still actually really good. What other examples are there of this phenomenon? Where a sequel is a major genre shift, but still pulls it off? The only other one I can think of is Super Mario Bros 2, which is still a platformer, but a wildly different style from the first game.
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Apr 24, 2024 12:12
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Zelda II only became a "sequel" late in development. Before then it was an unrelated game.
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Apr 24, 2024 12:21
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Zelda II only became a "sequel" late in development. Before then it was an unrelated game. I don't think that's true - are you thinking of SMB2?
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Apr 24, 2024 12:47
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did you know that Super Mario Bros 2 was originally called Doki Doki Panic in Japan?
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Apr 24, 2024 13:10
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Zelda 2 is one of those weird cases where the sequel to a beloved game wasn't bad, just different, and the fans were so mad that they changed it that they refused to recognize that the game was still actually really good. Symphony of the Night Hell, Mario 64 just for the jump to 3D
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Apr 24, 2024 13:15
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Dino Crisis 1 and 2. Okay, arguable about how much the sequel pulls it off, but from what I've heard, if you weren't hoping for the same survival horror gameplay, it was pretty good.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:20
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Parasite Eve went from semi-realtime JRPG to survival horror-inspired arcade shooter. And then nothing else happened.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:46
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? The skill tree in AC Valhalla is ridiculous. There are hundreds of nodes with +5 health and poo poo, and then twenty or thirty useful skills (like being able to return enemy arrows to them or stomp on enemies on the ground).
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Apr 24, 2024 13:52
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Simply Simon posted:Metroid Prime Nice, thank you! Your posting of SotN reminded me that Castlevania II had a similar "they changed it and it sucks" reaction, because of the change from strict level-based progression to an open-world RPG-ish thing. Though, CV2 also has the issue that it was hideously unintuitive in English, thanks to a cramped translation and some outright lies from NPCs.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:03
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? Fire Emblem has both. The level-up and stat system is a dumb mess and always has been, but in battle it tells you exactly how much damage you will do, and your chance to hit, crit etc. that specific enemy.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Nice, thank you! Your posting of SotN reminded me that Castlevania II had a similar "they changed it and it sucks" reaction, because of the change from strict level-based progression to an open-world RPG-ish thing. Though, CV2 also has the issue that it was hideously unintuitive in English, thanks to a cramped translation and some outright lies from NPCs. Generally there are probably a huge amount of game series where the first game was something quite different from the sequels, but it might not spring quickly to mind because the first one was e.g. a terrible RPG/action hybrid and for the sequel they made it pure action and it's much better now, but nobody played the original and it's not even clear that the sequel is technically the same franchise. For example did anybody (besides me, I emulated it out of curiosity) play the first Gex, the 2D PSX/Saturn sidescroller? Do people know that Enter the Gecko is Gex 2: 3D edition?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:31
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:
Spec Ops: The Line.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:33
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Like a Dragon is an obvious recent addition
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Apr 24, 2024 18:38
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One of the biggest genre shifts of all time is Dynasty Warriors 1 to Dynasty Warriors 2. 1 was a forgettable fighting game, the second is arguably one of the most influential beat 'em ups of all time and when you say Dynasty Warriors now everyone knows you're talking about the big massive army battle stuff.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:41
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Sonic Adventure 2 removed all the adventure game elements.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:51
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? Encased, which is a game strangely similar to Fallout 1, has a ton of almost-but-not-quite-insignificant stat modifiers for just about everything you do. Ate spicey food? Got wet? Took a piss recently? Fail to pick a lock within the last couple minutes? All these add to the stack of stat effects going on at any time.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:04
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Duke Nukem started off as a sidescrolling platformer
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Apr 24, 2024 19:10
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ImpAtom posted:One of the biggest genre shifts of all time is Dynasty Warriors 1 to Dynasty Warriors 2. 1 was a forgettable fighting game, the second is arguably one of the most influential beat 'em ups of all time and when you say Dynasty Warriors now everyone knows you're talking about the big massive army battle stuff. "In Japan, the game was released as Sangokumusou. With the next installment in the series a departure in genre and style from the original Dynasty Warriors, it was entitled Shin Sangokumusou in Japan. Nevertheless, in Europe and North America, the game was released as Dynasty Warriors 2, leading to a discrepancy in title numbers that has continued ever since." They don't make them every couple of years every more, so I doubt it's a recurring source of confusion for Japanese players. Mierenneuker has a new favorite as of 19:17 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 19:13
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credburn posted:Encased, which is a game strangely similar to Fallout 1, has a ton of almost-but-not-quite-insignificant stat modifiers for just about everything you do. Ate spicey food? Got wet? Took a piss recently? Fail to pick a lock within the last couple minutes? All these add to the stack of stat effects going on at any time. I really want to like Encased and it does scratch that FO1/2 itch, but there really is too much going on at any one time. However with enough Influence I can get tipsy and become more charismatic so that’s nice.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:16
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Mierenneuker posted:"In Japan, the game was released as Sangokumusou. With the next installment in the series a departure in genre and style from the original Dynasty Warriors, it was entitled Shin Sangokumusou in Japan. Nevertheless, in Europe and North America, the game was released as Dynasty Warriors 2, leading to a discrepancy in title numbers that has continued ever since." Yeah, but "Shin Sangokumusou" is basically titling it "New Dynasty Warriors."
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Apr 24, 2024 19:17
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credburn posted:Encased, which is a game strangely similar to Fallout 1, has a ton of almost-but-not-quite-insignificant stat modifiers for just about everything you do. Ate spicey food? Got wet? Took a piss recently? Fail to pick a lock within the last couple minutes? All these add to the stack of stat effects going on at any time. That reminds me of how The Outer Worlds has a bunch of buff items but their duration was way too low and so it never felt worth doing. For games that change things up between sequels there's the Jak series where the first was basically a 3D Mario style platformer and then the sequels were more open world games. Introducing vehicles and guns. Then of course the last one was a racing game.
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Apr 24, 2024 20:29
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What games go overboard with the stats and modifiers, and what does them right? Most of Control's modifiers went overboard. Not just a paltry percentage amount, but they would often have absurd qualifications, like: "+3% damage to flying enemies when you are flying"
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Apr 24, 2024 20:43
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The mod system in Control was entirely unnecessary and should have been cut
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Apr 24, 2024 20:56
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haveblue posted:The mod system in Control was entirely unnecessary and should have been cut Whenever there's weirdly specific systems that don't have a lot of impact I always assume that at one point it was much more important, but got scaled back a ton during testing. Otherwise it's always seemed weird to me to put extremely small, extremely specific bonuses on equipment.
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Apr 24, 2024 21:08
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:[...] where a sequel is a major genre shift, but still pulls it off? SWAT managed two genre shifts in four games, starting out with an FMV game (which, in fairness, set the bar low) and an isometric RTS before settling on tactical FPS
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Apr 24, 2024 21:10
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The insane thing is that there are some extremely powerful bonuses in there like “+40% damage all the time” competing with those inconsequential 3% conditional bonuses, and also that they added even more of those conditional bonuses like “get a few pennies worth of currency when you receive melee damage” in the DLC, after the devs had to have seen how uncompelling it all is.
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Apr 24, 2024 21:13
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I remember I got an absurdly powerful 0-cost one at some point but I can't remember what it did.
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Apr 24, 2024 21:21
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Philippe posted:The skill tree in AC Valhalla is ridiculous. There are hundreds of nodes with +5 health and poo poo, and then twenty or thirty useful skills (like being able to return enemy arrows to them or stomp on enemies on the ground). That's not even the worst part of it. Who the gently caress puts FOG OF WAR on a skill tree?!
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Apr 24, 2024 21:31
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goblin week posted:did you know that Super Mario Bros 2 was originally called Doki Doki Panic in Japan? Did you know Doki Doki Panic started out as a mario 2 tech demo? 
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Apr 24, 2024 21:36
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interestingly doki doki literature club was originally Mario Teaches Typing 2
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Apr 24, 2024 22:15
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What other examples are there of this phenomenon? Where a sequel is a major genre shift, but still pulls it off? The only other one I can think of is Super Mario Bros 2, which is still a platformer, but a wildly different style from the first game. The steamworld games? Whichever Kirby went to pinball? The Rambo series of films? Soccer turning into rugby?
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Apr 24, 2024 22:24
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Mario to Mario 2 is not a "major shift" in anything.
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Apr 24, 2024 22:32
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credburn posted:Mario to Mario 2 is not a "major shift" in anything. In what way? Mario 2 plays almost nothing like Mario 1 except for being a side scrolling platformer. Mario 1 and 3 play pretty much the same + some evolution but Mario 2 remains an oddity.You pick up and throw things to defeat enemies, and jumping on enemies isn't a method of attack aside from picking them up afterwards and tossing them, you have an actual health bar instead of one-hit damage, there's no Fire Flowers or anything, there are multiple playable characters with unique skills, etc. Some of this stuff eventually came back but even things like Luigi's High Jump/Peach's Float don't go hand-in-hand with SMB2 gameplay. ImpAtom has a new favorite as of 22:39 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 22:36
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mario 2 also had a light exploration puzzle aspect that didn’t really get reintroduced to the series until super Mario land 3: wario land
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Apr 24, 2024 22:44
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