Chapter 22 Just in case anyone was worried about Mr. Collins' poor broken heart, don't be; he solves that problem ASAP. quote:
Well, that was fast. I think they've spoken a grand total of three or four times. Charlotte really is the practical one. quote:Sir William and Lady Lucas were speedily applied to for their consent; and it was bestowed with a most joyful alacrity. Mr. Collins's present circumstances made it a most eligible match for their daughter, to whom they could give little fortune; and his prospects of future wealth were exceedingly fair. Lady Lucas began directly to calculate with more interest than the matter had ever excited before, how many years longer Mr. Bennet was likely to live; and Sir William gave it as his decided opinion that whenever Mr. Collins should be in possession of the Longbourn estate, it would be highly expedient that both he and his wife should make their appearance at St. James's. The whole family, in short, were properly overjoyed on the occasion. The younger girls formed hopes of coming out a year or two sooner than they might otherwise have done; and the boys were relieved from their apprehension of Charlotte's dying an old maid. Charlotte herself was tolerably composed. She had gained her point, and had time to consider of it. Her reflections were in general satisfactory. Mr. Collins to be sure was neither sensible nor agreeable; his society was irksome, and his attachment to her must be imaginary. But still, he would be her husband. -- Without thinking highly either of men or of matrimony, marriage had always been her object; it was the only honourable provision for well-educated young women of small fortune, and however uncertain of giving happiness, must be their pleasantest preservative from want. This preservative she had now obtained; and at the age of twenty-seven, without having ever been handsome, she felt all the good luck of it. From a practical point of view, she's done the right thing, and everyone in her family is happy for her. It will mean a big social promotion for the whole family -- the parents will gain status (though the idea that it will get them a chance to make an appearance at Court may be hopeful exaggeration), the younger daughters can start chasing men now (because you're supposed to let the older siblings marry first), and the younger brothers don't have to worry about supporting her. Charlotte's age of twenty-seven is important because she's basically at the top end of the marriageable range -- over thirty and you were considered an "old maid" and essentially guaranteed not to marry.( The Annotated points out that Austen was herself in her thirties when P&P was written.) Mr. Collins returns to the family and takes his leave of them, without initially telling them about the new engagement. There is one funny exchange: quote:As he was to begin his journey too early on the morrow to see any of the family, the ceremony of leave-taking was performed when the ladies moved for the night; and Mrs. Bennet, with great politeness and cordiality, said how happy they should be to see him at Longbourn again, whenever his other engagements might allow him to visit them. Mr. Bennett is smarter than he lets on. Charlotte drops by to tell Elizabeth about the engagement. Elizabeth's surprised. quote:``Engaged to Mr. Collins! my dear Charlotte, -- impossible!'' Elizabeth may be smart, but she's not nearly as good a judge of character as she thinks she is. All the clues were there -- every time Elizabeth's tried to avoid Mr. Collins previously, Charlotte stepped into the breach -- but she didn't want to see them. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:26 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:26 |
Chapter 23. Soon enough, everyone else finds out. quote:ELIZABETH was sitting with her mother and sisters, reflecting on what she had heard, and doubting whether she were authorised to mention it, when Sir William Lucas himself appeared, sent by his daughter to announce her engagement to the family. With many compliments to them, and much self-gratulation on the prospect of a connection between the houses, he unfolded the matter, -- to an audience not merely wondering, but incredulous; for Mrs. Bennet, with more perseverance than politeness, protested he must be entirely mistaken, and Lydia, always unguarded and often uncivil, boisterously exclaimed, There's a bit of irony going on there with Sir William's "complaisance of a courtier" and "good breeding," since he's only been to Court once (to be knighted) and comes from a trade background, but to be fair to the guy he is being really polite in the face of Mrs. Bennett's ravings. Elizabeth and Jane are saying the correct polite things here and keeping their heads on their shoulders, unlike their mother. From The Annotated I learn that it's a distances of around twenty or so miles from Hunsford (where Collins lives, near Rosings Park) to London and an additional twenty or thirty or so miles from London to Longbourne, so the Bennetts live around fifty miles away from Rosings total, or "about half a day's journey on good roads." The rest of the family reacts as expected (selfishly, except for Jane, who tries to believe it will work out happily). Mr. Collins writes to say that he's going to come visit again (he did check with Lady Catherine de Blaaaaaargh, and she totally approved). A few weeks pass and he comes back, but fortunately or unfortunately spends his time with Charlotte mostly. Then we have this sharp little exchange: quote:``Indeed, Mr. Bennet,'' said she, ``it is very hard to think that Charlotte Lucas should ever be mistress of this house, that I should be forced to make way for her, and live to see her take my place in it!'' If Mr. Bennett dies first, Charlotte Lucas will become the Lady of the House, and will take precedence at events, sit at Mrs. Bennett's current place at table, etc., and the Widow Bennett would have to move down and rely on the Collins' charity. Mr. Bennett is telling her not to worry about that because she may die before he does. And on that note, we're at the end of Volume One. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:42 |
Obviously I'm moving slower than I had initially planned! I'm going to keep going. Right now my plan is to finish this out as a "normal," i.e., non BoTM thread, next month, probably throwing A Night in the Lonesome October up for next month as a nice casual break book. Alternatively, I could just say "discuss whatever part" and lift the restrictions, or I could continue this BotM over two months. Thoughts/feedback?
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# ? Sep 18, 2014 12:57 |
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Obviously I'm moving slower than I had initially planned! I don't mind it going slowly at all. Personally I'd just continue this BotM over two months and continue it as a let's read, but I'm not the one who has to write all those summaries so honestly you should just decide yourself. edit: oh, on topic: I thought the chapter with the ball was by far the best one so far and really enjoyable. I've been enjoying this book so far despite my initial prejudices against Austen. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Sep 18, 2014 |
# ? Sep 18, 2014 17:43 |
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This thread inspired me to go back and revisit this great novel. You've done a great job so far, i don't mind that it's slow i'm still interested in the in depth read you're doing. Walh Hara: I've struggled getting into Austen's work such as Emma and Sense and Sensability; but Pride and Prejudice really is such a pleasure to read and follow that it makes Austen easy in my opinion. The great 1995 BBC rendition also helps too
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# ? Sep 19, 2014 13:51 |
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Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Emma, I feel that the main character is simply too unlikeable, and in Sense and Sensibility the whole "sense" part just feels too sterile to me. Pride and Prejudice hits this beautiful middle ground. Also, Hieronymous, your write-ups are great and I'm really enjoying them. One thing I feel is odd is how outré the younger girls are and why this is the case - I get that this family is pretty eccentric, but the younger girls are all just gently caress-ups. I feel as though there must be some reason for this that I'm not getting, some irony that's contingent on knowledge I just don't have. Any thoughts on that? Basically, a commentary on how loving annoying younger siblings are?
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# ? Sep 20, 2014 20:14 |
V. Illych L. posted:Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Emma, I feel that the main character is simply too unlikeable, and in Sense and Sensibility the whole "sense" part just feels too sterile to me. Pride and Prejudice hits this beautiful middle ground. They talk about this a little more later in the book, but basically, Mr. and Mrs. Bennett have worked less and less on raising each succeeding daughter correctly.
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# ? Sep 20, 2014 22:38 |
EDIT: Obviously this is a post in progress! Whurps, hit the button too soon! Ok, Onwards and Upwards! Excelsior! For those following along online, it looks like the Pemberly website is changing their formatting, so you can find the novel here: http://pemberley.net/etext/PandP/index.html Chapter Twenty-Four (Vol II, Chapter 1) quote:
This is a gently caress-you-I-win letter if there ever was one. quote:Elizabeth, to whom Jane very soon communicated the chief of all this, heard it in silent indignation. Her heart was divided between concern for her sister and resentment against all the others. To Caroline's assertion of her brother's being partial to Miss Darcy she paid no credit. That he was really fond of Jane, she doubted no more than she had ever done; and much as she had always been disposed to like him, she could not think without anger, hardly without contempt, on that easiness of temper, that want of proper resolution, which now made him the slave of his designing friends, and led him to sacrifice his own happiness to the caprice of their inclinations. Had his own happiness, however, been the only sacrifice, he might have been allowed to sport with it in what ever manner he thought best; but her sister's was involved in it, as she thought he must be sensible himself. It was a subject, in short, on which reflection would be long indulged, and must be unavailing. She could think of nothing else; and yet, whether Bingley's regard had really died away, or were suppressed by his friends' interference; whether he had been aware of Jane's attachment, or whether it had escaped his observation; whichever were the case, though her opinion of him must be materially affected by the difference, her sister's situation remained the same, her peace equally wounded. Elizabeth is mad because she thinks Bingley's very amiability is making him hurt her sister (Jane). On the upside, he's a nice, easy to get along with guy, and just like Jane everyone likes him; on the downside he's being a pushover. Jane reacts to it all as positively as only Jane can: quote:"Oh that my dear mother had more command over herself! she can have no idea of the pain she gives me by her continual reflections on him. But I will not repine. It cannot last long. He will be forgot, and we shall all be as we were before." By "nothing to reproach him with" she means that he never made any promises (such as an overt promise of marriage) or did anything untoward. She's saying she can't fault him for crossing any boundaries or toying with her emotions unfairly. quote:Miss Bennet eagerly disclaimed all extraordinary merit, and threw back the praise on her sister's warm affection. The "one I will not mention" is (I think?) Bingley's conduct, which she doesn't want to upset her sister with. Of course both of these are perfectly understandable. Bingley's being a pushover is something we've known about all along, and all the clues were there to see Charlotte's plan too -- every time Elizabeth pushed Collins away Charlotte stepped into the breach. Elizabeth just didn't want to see them coming. Anyway, Elizabeth and Jane finish their conversation, and with it (sad face !) their discussion of Mr. Bingley. quote:"My dear Lizzy, do not give way to such feelings as these. They will ruin your happiness. You do not make allowance enough for difference of situation and temper. Consider Mr. Collins's respectability, and Charlotte's prudent, steady character. Remember that she is one of a large family; that as to fortune it is a most eligible match; and be ready to believe, for everybody's sake, that she may feel something like regard and esteem for our cousin." There's a lot to talk about in this passage; it some ways it's one of the philosophical centerpieces of the novel. Just to touch on one angle, it's easy for a reader to look at Jane's attitude here and think "what the gently caress? Is she a human being or a teddy bear?" but on this re-read I'm more tempted to give Jane some credit. Her attitude might just be the best, healthiest way to approach a situation like this. It reminded me of this article on conflict resolution, which points out that the best way to resolve a conflict with someone is to assume they are merely ignorant (rather than arrogant, hostile, etc.). We've just seen that Elizabeth isn't as smart as she thinks she is; Jane isn't claiming that she's smart, or even that she's right, just that she's happiest thinking of things in their best light. Is that Pollyanaish or Panglossian, or simply practical? I honestly don't know! This seems like a good question to have characters in a novel argue over, because it's worth thinking about and I'm not sure there is a clear answer. quote:Mrs. Bennet still continued to wonder and repine at his returning no more, and though a day seldom passed in which Elizabeth did not account for it clearly, there seemed little chance of her ever considering it with less perplexity. Her daughter endeavoured to convince her of what she did not believe herself, that his attentions to Jane had been merely the effect of a common and transient liking, which ceased when he saw her no more; but though the probability of the statement was admitted at the time, she had the same story to repeat every day. Mrs. Bennet's best comfort was that Mr. Bingley must be down again in the summer. Mr. Bennett comes across as a little cold here, but is he trying to warn Elizabeth about Wickham? Note that despite Wickham's earlier promises that he wouldn't talk about Darcy's alleged ill-treatment of him, he's instead obviously telling everybody. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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# ? Sep 21, 2014 04:46 |
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I really enjoy the development of Elizabeth and Wickham - especially Elizabeth, being the narrative focus. They act against their words and thoughts - Wickham, especially, is a magnificent hypocrite. Elizabeth is the very typically "smartest person I know" - she gets this role by people, and she genuinely is very clever. The problem is, being smarter than everyone else in your narrow circle of acquaintance means that you're designated "smart person", and so it's easy to get stuck in your prejudices. I'm sure we've all seen this in our circles' "smart persons", and it's a very interesting observation to make of a hero(ine), I think. It also works well with both titular motifs - other people's prejudices feed into Elizabeth's own pride, and gives her her greatest character flaw.
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# ? Sep 21, 2014 20:35 |
Vol II, Chapter II (Chapter 25)quote:After a week spent in professions of love and schemes of felicity, Mr. Collins was called from his amiable Charlotte by the arrival of Saturday. The pain of separation, however, might be alleviated on his side, by preparations for the reception of his bride; as he had reason to hope that, shortly after his next return into Hertfordshire, the day would be fixed that was to make him the happiest of men. He took leave of his relations at Longbourn with as much solemnity as before; wished his fair cousins health and happiness again, and promised their father another letter of thanks. That first line isn't as bad a dig as it seems -- Collins has to return on Saturday so he can preach on Sunday. This section is also important because it introduces the Gardiners. Austen was sortof slamming people "in trade" with the way she drew Mrs. Bennett's other relatives, the Phillips family; now we get a more positive portrayal. They're from London and they live in the commercial district -- i.e., not the fashionable district, which is the point of that "within view of his own warehouses" bit. Still, though, they're well-liked and mannerly and sufficiently well-to-do to know what the most current London fashions are. quote:"I do not blame Jane," she continued, "for Jane would have got Mr. Bingley if she could. But Lizzy! oh, sister! it is very hard to think that she might have been Mr. Collins's wife by this time, had not it been for her own perverseness. He made her an offer in this very room, and she refused him. The consequence of it is, that Lady Lucas will have a daughter married before I have, and that Longbourn estate is just as much entailed as ever. The Lucases are very artful people indeed, sister. They are all for what they can get. I am sorry to say it of them, but so it is. It makes me very nervous and poorly to be thwarted so in my own family, and to have neighbours who think of themselves before anybody else. However, your coming just at this time is the greatest of comforts, and I am very glad to hear what you tell us of long sleeves." I love how Mrs. Bennett shifts from talking about what are apparently serious long-term family issues to hear about long sleeves.(Since people in this era were generally going to be buying fabric, not ready-made clothes, so if you knew what the latest fashions were, you could have something stitched together yourself.). Clearly Mrs. Bennett has her priorities in order. quote:Mrs. Gardiner, to whom the chief of this news had been given before, in the course of Jane and Elizabeth's correspondence with her, made her sister a slight answer, and, in compassion to her nieces, turned the conversation. We like Mrs. Gardiner already for handling Mrs. Bennett. We've seen Mr. Collins use that phrase "violently in love" several times before -- it was a contemporary cliche -- so it's interesting that when Mrs. Gardiner hears Elizabeth utter the cliche she calls her out for it. Jane Austen's positive characters don't tolerate that kind of sloppy verbiage. quote:"Oh, yes! -- of that kind of love which I suppose him to have felt. Poor Jane! I am sorry for her, because, with her disposition, she may not get over it immediately. It had better have happened to you, Lizzy; you would have laughed yourself out of it sooner. But do you think she would be prevailed on to go back with us? Change of scene might be of service -- and perhaps a little relief from home, may be as useful as anything." A ray of hope! Jane's going to go live in London with the Gardiners for a month or so. That's not an unusual length of stay for a "visit" in this era. When it takes a long time to travel, and the servants are taking care of the housework anyway, might as well make it a long trip. quote:The Gardiners staid a week at Longbourn; and what with the Philipses, the Lucases, and the officers, there was not a day without its engagement. Mrs. Bennet had so carefully provided for the entertainment of her brother and sister that they did not once sit down to a family dinner. When the engagement was for home, some of the officers always made part of it -- of which officers Mr. Wickham was sure to be one; and on these occasions Mrs. Gardiner, rendered suspicious by Elizabeth's warm commendation of him, narrowly observed them both. Without supposing them, from what she saw, to be very seriously in love, their preference of each other was plain enough to make her a little uneasy; and she resolved to speak to Elizabeth on the subject before she left Hertfordshire, and represent to her the imprudence of encouraging such an attachment. Hrrrrrmmmmmm.
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# ? Sep 22, 2014 02:29 |
Vol II, Chapter 3 (Chapter 26)quote:Mrs. Gardiner's caution to Elizabeth was punctually and kindly given on the first favourable opportunity of speaking to her alone: after honestly telling her what she thought, she thus went on -- Apparently a common romantic convention in novels of the time was for parental opposition to create a romance. In one of Austen's juvenilia parodies, Love and Friendship, characters say things like " Lady Dorothea is lovely and Engaging; I prefer no woman to her; but know Sir, that I scorn to marry her in compliance with your Wishes. No! Never shall it be said that I obliged my Father.". So Mrs. Gardiner is mocking that trope here. She's also got a point, though. Both Wickham and Elizabeth are (by the standards of this novel) penniless; they'd be an incredibly unwise match. The Annotated indicates that there's reason to believe Austen herself refused an engagement on similar financial grounds. quote:"My dear aunt, this is being serious indeed." The interjection about Darcy is because she blames Darcy for Wickham's lack of fortune. The Annotated points out that we haven't seen any indications that Mr. Bennett likes Wickham -- rather the reverse -- so Elizabeth may be imputing her own preferences to her father. All in all Elizabeth is being fairly insightful about herself here though, admitting that she'll do the best she can. Meanwhile, quote:Mr. Collins returned into Hertfordshire soon after it had been quitted by the Gardiners and Jane; but as he took up his abode with the Lucases, his arrival was no great inconvenience to Mrs. Bennet. His marriage was now fast approaching, and she was at length so far resigned as to think it inevitable, and even repeatedly to say, in an ill-natured tone, that she "wished they might be happy." Thursday was to be the wedding day, and on Wednesday Miss Lucas paid her farewell visit; and when she rose to take leave, Elizabeth, ashamed of her mother's ungracious and reluctant good wishes, and sincerely affected herself, accompanied her out of the room. As they went downstairs together, Charlotte said -- More notes from The Annotated: the "affected" is important because the convention would be that Elizabeth is moved by her friend's future happiness, but maybe here it's the reverse. Similarly, all the mentions of how eagerly and quickly Charlotte wants Elizabeth to write and visit show that Charlotte realizes exactly how painful living all alone with Mr. Collins is going to be. While that's going on, Jane is in London: quote:Jane had already written a few lines to her sister to announce their safe arrival in London; and when she wrote again, Elizabeth hoped it would be in her power to say something of the Bingleys. Poor Jane. The Wimmin Bingley are pretty clearly deliberately avoiding Jane and deliberately keeping her away from their brother. From The Annotated "Standard etiquette dictated that visits, such as Jane has already made on Miss Bingley in London, be returned within a reasonably short time. Miss Bingley's violation of these norms indicates her wish to break off her acquaintance with Jane." Basically Miss Bingley's phone was on silent for four weeks. quote:
And it ain't working out between Elizabeth and Wickham either, but she's not too broken up about it. Maybe she just liked flirting with Wickham because it gave her a reason to be so aanngry at Darcy. The bit about "importance may sometimes be purchased too dearly" is saying she doesn't want to be the Romantic Jilted Drama Queen because the price of it is actually going through the drama and she's happier being peaceful. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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# ? Sep 23, 2014 03:04 |
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I finished this book a few days ago. I started off slow - following along with the posts in the thread as I went - and then I shotgunned the other two-thirds of the book over the weekend. Great, great book. I love Austen's dry, sardonic wit about people like Miss Bingley and Mrs. Bennet. Mrs. Bennet, especially, since the way that Austen wrote her she has no clue that anything she does is objectionable or excessive in any way. It's been a while since I read Emma but I recall her father being just as hilarious as Mrs. Bennet. I know this is a completely out-of-nowhere recommendation, but one of the books that came to my mind while reading this again was Vikram Seth's A Suitable Boy. It's also about marriages, in a way - the plot is about an Indian matriarch trying to find a suitable match for her daughter. Mrs. Rupa Mehta, the mother, reminds me a great deal of Mrs. Bennet in her marriage-mania - and the upper class in India was about as strict and regimented about marriage as that of Austen's characters. Granted, it's about 5 times the length of P&P - my copy clocks in at 1400 pages - but it's also about the independence of India, countless families with their own dramas and history - it seems like Jane Austen done in widescreen in 1947 India. In any case, derail over. Utterly brilliant book, and now I'm inspired to go on and read Mansfield Park and Northanger Abbey - the two Austens I've yet to touch.
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# ? Sep 26, 2014 04:25 |
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I'm on the chapter 17 on the audiobook. Thanks for the explanations Hieronymous Alloy. I've read the Aubrey and Maturin series, some of the Hornblower series and the Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel, so the late Georgian and Regency era isn't completely strange territory, but I still found your explanations really helpful, and they made me realize some stuff that I had missed. This book is better than I was expecting. But then again I'm something of a fan of tv shows set in British mansions. And listening to snooty people being catty is quite relaxing when I'm walking or doing chores. But would it have hurt Austen to put even one single-ship action in the book?
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# ? Sep 27, 2014 17:21 |
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So is it cool to nominate a book for October here now that September is winding down? Ifso, I nominate "American Gods" by Neil Gaimian
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# ? Sep 28, 2014 22:33 |
Chamberk posted:I finished this book a few days ago. I started off slow - following along with the posts in the thread as I went - and then I shotgunned the other two-thirds of the book over the weekend. Great, great book. Heh, the same thing happened to me (which is part of why I've fallen behind on updates -- after I finished P&P I went over and did a re-read of Aubrey/Maturin, etc.) I will keep this project rolling but at a slower pace. If people want to just talk the book generally that's fine too. Benny the Snake posted:So is it cool to nominate a book for October here now that September is winding down? Ifso, I nominate "American Gods" by Neil Gaimian I'm going to be abusing my mod powers and simply appointing Roger Zelazny's A Night in the Lonesome October as next month's book, because I can, it's October-themed, it's a fun pastiche novel, and after this past month I figure we all deserve a break. We'll return to regularly-scheduled polling next month. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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# ? Sep 30, 2014 15:54 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:26 |
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Is there a P&P or jane Austen coloring book?
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# ? Dec 5, 2014 21:24 |