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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

I'm not sure you can adopt anything with those pilot suits into a good anime.

They're no worse than the pilot suits in Eva.

Darth Walrus posted:

Apparently it's pretty hilariously hypernationalistic, too, though I guess that (literally) fetishising the shogunate rather than the Meiji/Showa empire is a small plus.

I'm not saying it's not nationalistic but most of criticism that it's received from that is from people who didn't understand the coup arc or what America and Japans role in world politics is in the Alt verse. They've also massively backed off from the more nationalist stuff in the new adaptions coming out.

DamnGlitch posted:

Bugwar gundam is called muv luv alternative, and for the life of it it cant get adapted into a halfway decent anime.

I'd kill for a muv luv series by sunrise though.

There's no way alternative would be great, maybe good, but not great without including unlimited and extra. But there's no way people are gonna sit through 10 episodes of highschool hijinx, lacrosse, and cats cradle to get to the alien killing.

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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

MonsieurChoc posted:

I love 00 because it's an anime version of Foundation.

MonsieurChoc posted:

No but seriously, the 00 authors must have read a lot of old sci-fi like Asimov and Clarke and it shows and that's why it's great.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
Like out of all the AU's 00 is the only one that goes into the crazy 70's Sci Fi poo poo like the original series did.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Kanos posted:

I should elaborate a bit, actually. Kincaid/Vera don't really ACT massively different than Seabook and Cecily for the most part(some very specific oddities like Cecily being gung ho about taking up the Ronah name despite Cecily spending her entire life up to that point avoiding being a Ronah to the point of killing her own father aside). It's just that Crossbone in general bears extremely little relation to F91 despite the characters and setting being the same and I feel like there was no reason that they had to include Seabook and Cecily at all because they had a solid ending already in F91.

Crossbone is full of little "this is a callback that didn't need to happen, but does for no reason" things. The Crossbone Vanguard in F91 is the military arm of Cosmo Babylonia, an aristocratic organization that seeks to conquer the Earth Sphere. The Crossbone Vanguard in Crossbone are a bunch of "space pirates" that are actually guerillas fighting a Kira Yamato-style try-not-to-kill-anyone war against the Jupiter Empire. These two things have literally nothing to do with each other besides name, but they have the same name for no reason. Old Man Judau shows up to ask Tobia to stop the Jupiter Empire from getting combat data from Amuro Ray(a pilot who last fought literally forty years ago in mobile suits completely different from what's being used in the Crossbone era) to stop them from making a superweapon with it.
My best guess is that Cecily taking the Ronah name was a situation similar to Quattro embracing his Birthname in Zeta, trying to turn the negative of the crossbone vanguards actions and the actions of the Ronah family into a positive by using the power of her name to unite the dissipating Vanguard and remake them into a positive force opposing Jovian ambitions. It's more then a little shaky of a theory though.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I'd still rather fight Mika then cca amuro, he was so competent in that movie that he clowned char without even paying attention to him half the time, he was just on a different level in that movie

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

For Unicorn's ending Imagine if the framers of the constitution had added an amendment that "Pioneers adapted to the ways of the Ohio valley and other Territory, should they emerge shall be granted, prominence in government". It's just a nonsensical and impossible thing to add to a piece of legislation

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I've never actually seen it but isn't Gasaraki in this vein.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

AradoBalanga posted:

I think F91 is supposed to take place between a few days at minimum and an entire week at max.

I'm pretty sure that once they take over the colony there's a few month long timeskip between scenes. And then another before the final battle.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Marx Headroom posted:

I just realized Gundams don't have airbags

What the gently caress

Victory also has these flexible harness airbag things that only like half the characters use.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Victory probably has the best choreography of a full length series, uso manages to consistently pull off crazy poo poo with his dividing suit gimmick the whole way through, and the weirdness of the zanscare suits brings a strange dimension to a lot of fights that you don't see in most series.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The offscreen one before cca is the most successful isn't it. He hit the capital and gained all the concessions he wanted.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I think unicorn wanted to think that the federation rebuilding gryps was a horrible thing, but gently caress they were justified as far as I'm concerned. It does make me wonder why they didn't use it in f91 or victory

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

They supported the Titans until the end of the gryps conflict. And there was a Hardline faction that was supposed to have been supporting the sleeves.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

G reco was fantastic. It knew how to tell a story that was serious without spewing garbage melodrama at you every five minutes. And despite it having a fight in every episode it's fight direction shits all over ibos.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Anybody who finds ibo's characters to be well realized but thinks g reco's are alien are certifiably insane. The characters in reco are humans who've grown up in a different cultural context. The guys in ibo are what people who've never been within the same time zone as a warzone thinks child soldiers are. Don't get me started on harem gangster.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The cultural context in the two shows is completely different. The earthlings in turn a have experience in war. It's that they're utterly eclipsed technologically by the moonrace.

The amerians in reco are constantly at war with others over the limited resources and are very aware that they've been held back technologically by the capital. The capital forces, and Venus globe are more "innocent" but their war fever is as much a reaction to the collapse of a system that had been going on for God knows how long suddenly breaking down and the people in charge making rasher and rasher decisions to capitalize on the collapse.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Kanos posted:

I think SEED Kira is a fine protagonist who is a lot more interesting than Banagher. He has emotions, goals, and a recognizable narrative arc. Destiny damns him, but Destiny is trash that pretty much fucks up everything it tries to do.

I would argue that execution is honestly all that matters. A lot of the best Gundam characters have terrible concepts. If you just look at concepts, Char is a mediocre fanfic character; an omni-talented prettyboy who hides his identity with an anime mask while going undercover to avenge his dead parents. Domon in concept is a generic kung fu movie protagonist. As you mention, Loran in concept is an incredibly boring nice guy everyman.


I don't think it's fair to call Char a fanfic character. Dude is never as smart, capable, or skilled as the people he's against, and his list of flaws is pages longer than his abilities.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Char gets wrecked by an inexperienced kid piloting a prototype. Loses every battle in the first series. Get's run by Yazan, Buran, and Haman. Is a weirdo with mother issues who watches his girlfriend/mother figure die in front of him because he's not good enough as a pilot. Loses the sociopathic manipulation game to Scirocco. In the end all he's got is a teenage girl, mediocre piloting skills, and a family name. His own men even abandon him at the end of CCA.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Kanos posted:

Ah, but now you're getting into execution rather than concept, which was the argument to begin with.

Char's men didn't all abandon him, either, just a few. There's an entire army full of people who are so up their own asses at the idea of working for The Legendary Red Comet that Unicorn's main antagonist is literally a guy pretending to be Char.


I don't really hold Char losing mobile suit battles in Zeta against him. The Hyaku Shiki is a piece of poo poo garbage prototype suit that is inferior to the Gundam MkII at the outset of the series, and that suit is mediocre enough that it had to get a bolt-on backpack to continue functioning halfway through the show. The fact that Quattro manages to hold his own against enemy aces in state of the art hardware speaks well of him, even if he loses against the big boys and girls.

Kanos posted:

Ah, but now you're getting into execution rather than concept, which was the argument to begin with.

Char's men didn't all abandon him, either, just a few. There's an entire army full of people who are so up their own asses at the idea of working for The Legendary Red Comet that Unicorn's main antagonist is literally a guy pretending to be Char.


I don't really hold Char losing mobile suit battles in Zeta against him. The Hyaku Shiki is a piece of poo poo garbage prototype suit that is inferior to the Gundam MkII at the outset of the series, and that suit is mediocre enough that it had to get a bolt-on backpack to continue functioning halfway through the show. The fact that Quattro manages to hold his own against enemy aces in state of the art hardware speaks well of him, even if he loses against the big boys and girls.

Unicorn is so poorly written that I choose to ignore everything in it to be honest.

I'm with you on the execution vs. the concept

That said I'd be willing to blame more of his losses on Zeta on the Hyaku Shiki if Elle and Beecha didn't manage to perform just as well if not better than him in ZZ.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The Notorious ZSB posted:

Laplace's Box is way dumber than anything in 0083. Even Kou's irrational distaste for carrots.

Kou has the same voice actor as Vegeta. It was just a stupid VA joke. The joke behind laplaces box is that someone somehow managed to get it published without realizing how loving dumb it was.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

The Ol Spicy Keychain posted:

Thanks guys. Going to check out War in the Pocket + IBO first and then Wing later down the line.

BTW is that Reconguista show any good? Some of the art I've seen looks phenomenal.

It's the best gundams been in decades. Just make sure you pay attention instead of tuning out.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

tsob posted:

It's also probably the most interesting because it's not just a thematic image but is such an explicit part of Setsuna's development and character. He deifies the idea and image of Gundam for a lot of the show, replacing the concept of "God" with that of "Gundam" because worship of God let him down and made his life so poo poo while a Gundam saved his life and he simply wants to be a soldier for one instead of the other with the story revolving around his questioning of what that means and how to do so.
That scene is great because it's not just a defining moment for Setsuna but also for Ribbons. His entire god complex could be rooted in that moment. Setsuna see's him take out the suits that were slaughtering his comrades and treats the gundam as a god. Ribbons descends upon the conflict and effortlessly ends the fight. He didn't know or care about who was fighting or why. He saw the awe and terror the gundam inspired and realized that setsuna was correct, he was a god.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Frost Ace posted:

Is The Origin manga a decent way to get the 0079 story if I don't have a good way to watch the original series?

Id recommend the compilation movies over origins, but more so that there more of an alternative retelling of events, and it's interesting to see that after having seen the original. But yeah you can start with origins and be fine

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

I wish that Unicorn had shown the anti new type weapon counter measures being more effective. You'd think that after facing them for decades the federation could do a little better at countering funnels and the like.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Willo567 posted:

So with that new G-Reco movie coming out, I've been thinking about giving the series a watch. Is it really as bad/confusing as people say it is? It looks too fun for me to pass up

It's the best gundam show of the decade.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

drrockso20 posted:

I've said it before but 00 works better if you treat it as having only one season
The second season is nearly as good as the first. If you skip out on the second season you miss out on all the cool 70's sci fi goodness, one of the best villians in the entire franchise, and the best gundam.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

My very first exposure to gundam was a GP01 action figure I got from a relative on my birthday, followed some years later by the Federation vs Zeon game for PS2, which I would argue is still one of the best gundam games out there

I would kill for another game in that mold where you were some nameless grunt and chose missions and got new MS's over the course of the game. Gundam vs zeta Gundam was good, but loving with the timeline didn't feel as good as carving out your own place on the list of aces from the one year war.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Warmachine posted:

The particles also gently caress with visible light optics too iirc, so even long range gunnery with the mk 1 eyeball doesn't work. Hence why ships are getting right up next to each other.

Yeah it screws with visuals over distance, it's why you get things like the dummy balloons

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Ethiser posted:

Guntank was my favorite suit in Federation vs. Zeno. Those cannons packed a punch.

The z'gok and the guncannon are both incredibly beastly in that game in the zeon side

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Zeta or war in the pocket

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

They should do a crossbone anime because the scuba zaku is cool and I want a kit of it.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Argas posted:

He's just one of the Federation bigwigs that are in the background. I think he's in a bunch of the Gihren's Greed/Ambition games?

Return of Johnny Ridden also has some funny commentary by Gopp and crew on how Jamitov was just trying to get Earthnoids into space or some weirdass retcon/motive justification, and how Jamitov's complete failure basically soured the public on anything vaguely in the realm of his approach (???).

Jamitov trying to get people to move into space is in Zeta. I'm not surprised you missed it it's like a two minute conversation somewhere near the negotiations with Haman.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Bloody Pom posted:

The way this works is somewhat hilarious. Officers in GG exert a zone of control which applies their stat-altering effects in a radius around the unit they're assigned to. The higher the officer's rank, the larger the zone. Higher-rank officers also override officers below them within that zone. So if you have Gopp and, for example, Bright in the same combat group, Bright's amazing stats get negated just by being in proximity to Gopp's incompetence.

Frighteningly accurate portrayl

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

tsob posted:

Scirocco mentions it when talking to Jerid and Maour at one point, though I'm not sure if that's the same scene you're thinking of. He basically explains Jamitov's motives, then compares those motives to AEUGs and says his own motives seem similar but that he's not "bound by Earth's gravity" i.e. that while AEUG and the Titans just want to contend over the Earthsphere, and maybe move everyone in to space one way or another, he wants to push people out from Earth beyond the Earthsphere.

Yeah Its been a while since I've seen zeta so I'm struggling to remember. I think he might go into his goals too at some point when he's talking to jerid in his weird inner sanctum

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

War is actually good

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Stairmaster posted:

Why is war in the pocket called Gundam 0080? that is most definitely not the year it takes place

Yes it is? Like barely but there war ends in the opening months of the new decade.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

It must be a matter of perspective but I'm not able to write off stardust. It's plot is whack along with the characters, but the design and animation is top-notch, only F91 holds a candle to it.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

How close is it to being done? I've been interested in it for a minute, but I don't wanna suffer for years waiting for releases.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

That's a shame, every week there's another reason to be sad that I fell off of my Japanese acquisition. Hopefully some saints pick it up, if it's truly so good it deserves to be seen by the western fanbase

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Just pretend everything is in its own slightly different continuty like Macross. Bam no more handwriting about panoramic cockpits or I fields.

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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

As far as I know they're far more willing to ignore small discrepancies and look at the work as a standalone piece instead of trying to cram it into a Canonical framework. I'm not Japanese so I'm sure there's others who can tell you more about their perspective

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