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Kalli posted:Israel tortured the head of orthopedics in Gaza's largest hospital to death over 4 months in captivity: While Israel is to blame for his death in captivity, I don't see how "tortured" is documented here?
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# ? May 2, 2024 19:43 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 22:37 |
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Rust Martialis posted:While Israel is to blame for his death in captivity, I don't see how "tortured" is documented here? quote:Dozens of Palestinians who had been freed by Israel in past months including some staff of a U.N. agency have reported ill-treatment during detention, including torture and deprivation of food and sleep.
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# ? May 2, 2024 19:46 |
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Rust Martialis posted:While Israel is to blame for his death in captivity, I don't see how "tortured" is documented here? Torture has been widely reported by detainees and the IDF won't even release a cause of death for this guy. Seems like a reasonable conclusion.
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# ? May 2, 2024 20:08 |
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Rust Martialis posted:While Israel is to blame for his death in captivity, I don't see how "tortured" is documented here? Someone beat me to it, but it's basically a given if you're a Palestinian person imprisoned by Israel.
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# ? May 2, 2024 20:09 |
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punishedkissinger posted:Torture has been widely reported by detainees and the IDF won't even release a cause of death for this guy. Seems like a reasonable conclusion. I mean it's going to be ignored by pro-Israel politicians anyhow, what's one more dead Palestinian to them
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# ? May 2, 2024 20:11 |
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Neo Rasa posted:Someone beat me to it, but it's basically a given if you're a Palestinian person imprisoned by Israel. Seeing as they're currently torturing two million people in Gaza, not sure why anyone would even question it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? May 2, 2024 20:16 |
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Fidelitious posted:For what theoretical reason would Hamas attack the pier? Is it supposed to be the thing about them stealing supplies again? You do know Hamas hates the US just as much as it hates Israel right? Not everything is some big conspiracy.
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# ? May 2, 2024 20:51 |
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Just gonna assume they cremate the body whenever they send it back
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# ? May 2, 2024 21:39 |
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I think Hamas has bigger things to worry about than US/UK soldiers on a pier that is intended to bring food to Palestinians
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# ? May 2, 2024 22:13 |
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What about the strategic Israeli controlled maritime route Netanyahu requested back in October?
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# ? May 2, 2024 22:33 |
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China recently hosted representatives from Hamas and Fatah for a talk about the shared future of Palestine. Seems they're stepping in where the US is consistently dropping the ball with Middle Eastern diplomacy as it becomes increasingly decrepit and insane. Not sure if there will be any substantive progress made, but it's clear there needs to be unity between Hamas and the West Bank resistance going forward. Hamas is more popular in the West Bank than the PA at the moment, and Israel seems hellbent on destroying their only comprador, which can only make things worse for them in the long term. It's pretty clear that Hamas is going to remain in control of Gaza, but it's up in the air what shape the Palestinian resistance is going to take in the West Bank after Abbas dies.
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# ? May 3, 2024 00:17 |
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DynamicSloth posted:What about the strategic Israeli controlled maritime route Netanyahu requested back in October? The day before in the Jerusalem Post linked to in that article: “Despite Gallant’s spin, when the US announced the initiative last Thursday, sources close to the defense minister and multiple senior IDF sources were caught blindsided. It was unclear if they had no idea that the initiative was happening at all, or if it had been discussed theoretically at some point, and they only did not realize that the US had moved up the timetable. It was hours before any Israeli defense official knew how to even respond to the question of what the US meant by “establishing a port.” As of press time, the Prime Minister’s Office had not clarified whether it was in the loop or if the US had made the decision unilaterally.” They’re full of poo poo and it’s internal spin to not look terrible inside Israel.
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# ? May 3, 2024 00:29 |
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Your Brain on Hugs posted:China recently hosted representatives from Hamas and Fatah for a talk about the shared future of Palestine. Seems they're stepping in where the US is consistently dropping the ball with Middle Eastern diplomacy as it becomes increasingly decrepit and insane. Not sure if there will be any substantive progress made, but it's clear there needs to be unity between Hamas and the West Bank resistance going forward.
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# ? May 3, 2024 00:52 |
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The West Bank often gets overlooked, but in some ways living there as a Palestinian could be worse than living in Gaza (pre Oct 7, obviously). Before, in Gaza, you at least had relative freedom inside the open air prison, in the sense that you're not interacting with the IDF much at all. In the West Bank, every single day, every time you go through a checkpoint or have an interaction with an Israeli who has power over you, it's a gamble to whether you're merely deliberately inconvenienced, verbally abused, or whether you're kidnapped and tortured or killed. It's a different kind of constant stress but in some ways I'm sure you'd feel the boot on your neck even more than in Gaza. I really hope the liberation of the West Bank gets more attention with all this.
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# ? May 3, 2024 01:31 |
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Charliegrs posted:You do know Hamas hates the US just as much as it hates Israel right? Not everything is some big conspiracy. So to get this straight, you think the Qassam brigades will attack the pier feeding their people?
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# ? May 3, 2024 02:41 |
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Jaxyon posted:So to get this straight, you think the Qassam brigades will attack the pier feeding their people? Even some people in this thread are extremely sceptical that the pier will actually be used for anything good. Why would fighters in Gaza be more trusting of Biden's initiative?
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# ? May 3, 2024 02:47 |
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Paladinus posted:Even some people in this thread are extremely sceptical that the pier will actually be used for anything good. Why would fighters in Gaza be more trusting of Biden's initiative? So you think that they're pre-attack it before it can do anything, or that they'll decide to attack it because it's not feeding enough of their supporters? I'm really struggling to see the logic here that isn't "muslims be violent". Israel attacking makes sense, as they have along record of attacking things that help palestinians, but Hamas doesn't.
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# ? May 3, 2024 02:51 |
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Jaxyon posted:So you think that they're pre-attack it before it can do anything, or that they'll decide to attack it because it's not feeding enough of their supporters? I think they will see American soldiers as a legitimate target. Because they are soldiers. From America. Which is exactly what a high-ranking Hamas official said.
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# ? May 3, 2024 02:58 |
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The pier is to feed them while still bombing them. Not ending the genocide. Hard to see America as being altruistic here.
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:00 |
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Paladinus posted:I think they will see American soldiers as a legitimate target. Because they are soldiers. From America. Which is exactly what a high-ranking Hamas official said. Can you source that quote? hadji murad posted:The pier is to feed them while still bombing them. Not ending the genocide. Hard to see America as being altruistic here. It's not altruistic, that doesn't mean it's not going to feed people.
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:04 |
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I really shouldn’t be surprised at this point but it’s not only sickening, it’s bad politics https://twitter.com/mychaelschnell/status/1786155281862349040?s=46&t=BHs6Pl38GJXGN2Y4xeriNA
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:06 |
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Jaxyon posted:Can you source that quote? It's from the previous page. https://apnews.com/article/hamas-kh...94%20he%20said. quote:“We categorically reject any non-Palestinian presence in Gaza, whether at sea or on land, and we will deal with any military force present in these places, Israeli or otherwise … as an occupying power,” he said.
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:10 |
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Paladinus posted:It's from the previous page. So a Hamas official said they'd see the US as occupiers, not that they'd attack a pier feeding their people. That quote reads as posturing. I still don't get why you think that they'd attack it if it was supplying food. As I said, they have no history of that, while Israel has a huge history of that.
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:16 |
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Jaxyon posted:So a Hamas official said they'd see the US as occupiers, not that they'd attack a pier feeding their people. That quote reads as posturing. Who do you think will be manning the pier? Are you really insisting that fighters in Gaza have no reason to attack American soldiers? Military personnel from the country that supports Israel by giving it billions in military aid? Paladinus fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 3, 2024 |
# ? May 3, 2024 03:24 |
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Jaxyon posted:I'm really struggling to see the logic here that isn't "muslims be violent". Israel attacking makes sense, as they have along record of attacking things that help palestinians, but Hamas doesn't. the whole post is stupid but this part makes my head spin. This is like saying Jews shouldn’t have fought the Warsaw uprising because they might have been fed longer, and anyone cheering it on believes in the protocols of the elders book too
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:35 |
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I think the bigger issue is that an attack on the pier by Hamas has zero strategic benefit and only provides cover for the US to actively partake in the war rather than just aid and abet Israel.
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# ? May 3, 2024 03:56 |
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If the pier does get attacked it's going to be a hot mess. You're going to get a lot of finger pointing from Israeli's claiming it's Hamas who hate Americans and Hamas claiming it's Israel because they don't want Palestinians to get aid. That press release seems perfectly primed to cast doubt on who the perpetrators are. Is there a full transcript of the interview anywhere?
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# ? May 3, 2024 04:06 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:I really shouldn’t be surprised at this point but it’s not only sickening, it’s bad politics Are Democrats trying to lose? They just consistently make me even more disgusted with their conduct.
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# ? May 3, 2024 04:28 |
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There is a clear security issue for the pier that needs be resolved from an American military perspective. That means either a) a Israeli security zone, rendering the idea of the peer as some sort of value add over the checkpoints as senseless, b) some variety of the us or its proxies effectively or literally have boots on the ground, which is inflammatory or c) no security and just wait for a flashpoint which is basically creating a new gulf of Tonkin type situation. When the US military has a fleet week or an air show in America for a friendly crowd there is a security plan and security personnel for all kinds of wild and unlikely circumstances. The idea that the US military is going to be operating right next to, and in sight of Gaza, while effectively a belligerent in the war on Gaza, with no security - it’s always struck me as the most insane/unlikely aspect of this whole pier enterprise. There is either going to be very substantial security provided by someone or this is America begging for an excuse.
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# ? May 3, 2024 04:35 |
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Mustang posted:Are Democrats trying to lose? They just consistently make me even more disgusted with their conduct. You're not Chuck Schumer's voter constituency. You're not the average target voter for the Dems, generally.
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# ? May 3, 2024 06:01 |
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Congress wise they might be fine, but it really is something to see Joe Biden trying everything in his power to tank his re-election so he can continue to support a genocide. Doesn't he realise that if he loses, he'll no longer have the power to personally send more weapons to kill Gazan children? Trump can't be trusted with that kind of thing, he might gently caress it up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? May 3, 2024 08:04 |
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Mustang posted:Are Democrats trying to lose? They just consistently make me even more disgusted with their conduct. I/P is the last thing on voters minds and no parent wants to see a college campus with a bunch of people doing anything but partying or studying.
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# ? May 3, 2024 08:44 |
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Discendo Vox posted:You're not Chuck Schumer's voter constituency. You're not the average target voter for the Dems, generally. Pretty much. The number of people who would care so much about inviting Netanyahu that they'd withhold their vote over it, but are fine with billions in lethal aid for the ongoing slaughter, is probably next to nonexistent. Surely the speech can't cost them any more votes than they've already lost. Beating college kids might have been a mistake though, if any of them weren't single-issue voters on I/P, they might still be single-issue voters on getting beaten on the orders of Democratic mayors and governors. Or Republican governors while the Democratic president says they deserve it, as the case may be. Although "people the cops are beating" might not be the Dems' target voters either. The larger question of whether it's wise to write off all those people and not target their votes in the first place is of course trickier to figure out. But if they care about doing genocide more than winning the election, it would make sense not to worry about the votes of anyone opposed to genocide.
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# ? May 3, 2024 09:32 |
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According to polls, the majority of registered Democrats support the US giving aid to Israel, and while they disapprove of the "war", most blame it on Hamas rather than Israel. As in, every time they hear about horrific death tolls, they blame Hamas for forcing Israel's hand and want to support Israel even more. They believe Israel is trying to minimize civilian deaths as much as possible. IE: the propaganda works. There's definitely a large skew with younger voters supporting Palestine more, but not as much as you might think. It's closer to 50-50 than a majority in either direction. Clarste fucked around with this message at 11:00 on May 3, 2024 |
# ? May 3, 2024 10:58 |
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The problem is that while the Democrats are split on the issue, the Republicans are overwhelmingly in favour of Israel. Their candidate also has a track-record of exceptionally pro-Israel actions (eg the unprecedented recognition of Israeli land seizures in Jerusalem and the Golan Heights) and is heavily favoured by Israeli politicians. Continuing to support Israel will certainly cause some people to not vote for Biden on principal, but ultimately those voters don't really have anywhere better to go. Meanwhile the pro-Israel Democrats can and will defect to the Republicans if Biden makes a significant break with Israel.
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# ? May 3, 2024 11:07 |
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Your Brain on Hugs posted:The West Bank often gets overlooked, but in some ways living there as a Palestinian could be worse than living in Gaza (pre Oct 7, obviously). Before, in Gaza, you at least had relative freedom inside the open air prison, in the sense that you're not interacting with the IDF much at all. In the West Bank, every single day, every time you go through a checkpoint or have an interaction with an Israeli who has power over you, it's a gamble to whether you're merely deliberately inconvenienced, verbally abused, or whether you're kidnapped and tortured or killed. It's a different kind of constant stress but in some ways I'm sure you'd feel the boot on your neck even more than in Gaza. I really hope the liberation of the West Bank gets more attention with all this. Here's a really good piece on a family literally having to live under Hebron settlers and not being able to go outside. https://www.facebook.com/denatakruri/videos/710482359976481/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
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# ? May 3, 2024 11:32 |
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Clarste posted:According to polls, the majority of registered Democrats support the US giving aid to Israel, and while they disapprove of the "war", most blame it on Hamas rather than Israel. As in, every time they hear about horrific death tolls, they blame Hamas for forcing Israel's hand and want to support Israel even more. They believe Israel is trying to minimize civilian deaths as much as possible. IE: the propaganda works. That's not consistent with what I've been seeing, but then there's been a lot of polling and I don't claim to have seen it all. Can you post what you're relying on? Ipsos, March 1, 2024: quote:The latest Reuters/Ipsos poll finds that Americans are split on whether the U.S. should continue providing military aid to Israel. Nearly half (47%) of Americans say they would be more likely to support a 2024 presidential candidate who continues to support Israel, while 48% say they would be less likely to support a candidate who does so. These sentiments, however, vary by political affiliation. While at least half of Democrats (56%) and independents (51%) say that continuing to give military aid to Israel would make them less likely to support a presidential candidate, most Republicans (62%) say doing so would make them more likely to support a presidential candidate. Gallup, March 27, 2024: quote:After narrowly backing Israel’s military action in Gaza in November, Americans now oppose the campaign by a solid margin. Fifty-five percent currently disapprove of Israel’s actions, while 36% approve. Pew Research, March 21, 2024: quote:A plurality of Democrats (43%) oppose providing Israel with military aid for the war against Hamas, while a quarter support it.
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# ? May 3, 2024 12:33 |
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DeliciousPatriotism posted:UCLA apparently the pulled the plug on the campus website. Student reporters are claiming censorship. Smaller websites that are not accustomed to getting a huge influx of readers can and often go down.
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# ? May 3, 2024 12:38 |
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FlamingLiberal posted:I really shouldn’t be surprised at this point but it’s not only sickening, it’s bad politics Going from calling for regime change to this
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# ? May 3, 2024 12:55 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 22:37 |
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The problem is that while the Democrats are split on the issue, the Republicans are overwhelmingly in favour of Israel. Their candidate also has a track-record of exceptionally pro-Israel actions (eg the unprecedented recognition of Israeli land seizures in Jerusalem and the Golan Heights) and is heavily favoured by Israeli politicians. Continuing to support Israel will certainly cause some people to not vote for Biden on principal, but ultimately those voters don't really have anywhere better to go. Meanwhile the pro-Israel Democrats can and will defect to the Republicans if Biden makes a significant break with Israel. So the choice is potentially lose because you pissed off some key demographics by supporting a genocide, or potentially lose because you pissed off some key demographics by not supporting a genocide? Well at least he chose what makes him happy. Not the one I personally would have gone for, but I guess that's why I'm not the president. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? May 3, 2024 13:16 |