|
Reading Ward as someone who barely read Worm but has been exposed to enough nerdery about it (this thread included) wasn't terribly difficult to me, granted obviously I didn't know who most of the returning cast in this latest arc were, but most of it is cleared up pretty well. Any complaints I have regarding the story don't really come from that stuff - except kind of interlude 1, which felt like it expected a lot of knowing/sniffing out capes to make you give a poo poo about what was going on. I have two big issues with Ward so far. The first is as people have mentioned, the writing is really struggling to pull together the story Wildbow apparently wants to tell - right now anyway - and a lot of the dialogue and general goings-on in this arc felt tedious or sub-par. I was actually quite enjoying the first arc largely based on the focus on Victoria's situation and her navigating various relationships, and this second arc can't do either of those things since it's focused on introducing a whole heap of new characters. I guess you could say I enjoyed reading Wildbow writing about Victoria more than I enjoy reading Wildbow writing about Victoria and her wacky friends. Which is my second problem: I honestly don't find myself interested in reading about any of her new group of misfits at all, certainly not compared to the characters in arc 1. I don't even just mean the relationships with baggage either, the ill-fated team of heroes were a ton more interesting to me than her group therapy pals are, which annoys me extra since I was looking forward to seeing what Wildbow would come up with for them before they were introduced. Especially the twins and Chris gave the impression of being a pain to read about, and Sveta for all her sweetness doesn't interest me that much, nor does Rain. Damsel of Distress was the only mildly entertaining one to me and we hardly got to actually know her at all, pretty much - no idea if I'd be interested in actually having her stick around for ages. I'll still be reading on for a while to see how it goes though.
|
#
¿
Jan 4, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 22:29 |
|
|
Tom Clancy is Dead posted:I think the main problem here is that a large part of what Wildbow does well are powers and action and the relation between the two, and so introducing a bunch of new characters where neither are happening seems like a terrible way for him to do it. I thought Relay and Crystalclear were more interesting in their small cameo than most of the therapy group were in the whole arc. I mean I haven't read much Wildbow but I found the first arc and the start of this second both fine enough to read. And I've always found action to be the by far most boring parts of stories like these, Wildbow's stuff no exception. The powers I can see, though so far only really the broken triggers part was particularly interesting to me thus far. It's mostly the chapters after 2.4 that have me a bit in the dumps. Well, the interlude was fine again I suppose.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 4, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
Yeah Tristan/Byron are definitely shadier than Kenzie imo, even if only one of them is probably the actual shady person (we just can't tell which) We don't know poo poo about Chris yet really so it's hard to call him shady, Ashley/Sveta don't come off as shady at all so watch Ashley secretly be a criminal mastermind E: Also I agree with Rain and T/B being similar, because in both cases the shadiness comes from trying to figure out if they did/want to do something terrible to someone (the cluster/the other bro) despite claiming they're innocent. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
Despite all the rampant speculation on secret bad guys, 'oh it looked like they were really shady but actually they're mostly just pathetic' is basically the conclusion for both Rain and Kenzie at this point (except she's still shady as gently caress too). So I'm guessing the same will be true for the rest of the team too. Replace shady with megalomaniacal in the case of Ashley and team mom in the case of Sveta.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2018 14:46
|
|
|
Let's all make peace with the fact that Victoria will definitely have the biggest blow-out of all, sure she's one of the more functional members of the team in day-to-day life but she's also probably the most liable to randomly explode without warning too. And the more poo poo goes down around town, the more likely for Amy or whoever's coordinating her around Victoria is to slip up on just that.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2018 22:20
|
|
|
I'm just wondering how she's rationalizing ignoring Amy at this point. Not saying she should actually go meet her of course, but I mean she HAS to know that no matter what they're running around the same general areas and, yeah, in theory she could be really lucky and they never happen to cross paths (I dunno if 'randomly in a mall' or 'at the site of a huge parahuman slugfest' is the worse option here) but they absolutely will. Even without meta-knowledge that it's a story so obviously they will, this place doesn't exactly seem that big AND they both frequent at least a few of the same places like the Wardens HQ. She seems just purely in denial that this is a possibility at all and doesn't appear to be remotely prepared for it. Maybe I'm underestimating her, but it's almost kind of annoying how clammed up and careful she is about everything else that has to do with her family yet apparently is completely unworried about just looking up and seeing Amy across the street or whatever. And nothing I've seen in the story so far makes me think she gets out of that without at least a personal breakdown, if not collateral damage.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
Other than the generally slow pacing - which, if you're reading serials, you should probably develop an immunity to unless you want to be forever dissatisfied - I'm pretty happy with where Ward's been going so far. But I'm in a pretty unique situation in that I A: didn't read Worm beforehand - exposed to it a decent bit through the magic of the internet though - and B: am generally not at all interested in the fights. I actually took up reading Worm after starting Ward and it's been a pretty interesting experience given all the poo poo I'm spoiled on, being halfway through at the moment. For example, I find myself not as motivated to keep reading not because the current chapter is particularly bad (although all the material up through arc 9 was definitely more engaging that what's come after, and I feel like the changes to Taylor's situation and mindset is to blame for it) but because I'm just not that interested in the large-scale world-ending fuckery that's coming steadily closer. It's a pity since some of what I was most looking forward to reading about hasn't showed up yet too, but oh well. That's why I appreciate Ward so far - the characters sitting around talking more than running around fighting suits my preferences great, and any potential world-ending threats are many, many arcs off if they show up at all. I find that Wildbow writes powers as far more interesting when used for characterization, social situations and making characters sound dangerous than in actual combat. And Victoria is definitely more interesting and engaging to read about than Taylor was. I also enjoy the Fallen as antagonists although I am a bit disinterested in Cedar Point. The biggest issue I have with Ward is really that not all the characters really work for me yet. For example, having no background from Worm to fill in info, Sveta is actually a pretty boring character in Ward so far. Her introduction was sweet to be sure, but after that, other than her story on the other Case 53s when Rain explained his poo poo and a couple throwaway funny lines, she's almost as invisible as Chris. Who is another character who's obviously not very appealing but at least his lack of characterization is very obviously intentional. I also can't find it in me to like or care about Rain at all, even though I don't mind his story/interludes because I enjoy the Fallen fuckery. I like Tristan fine so far, love Ashley, kinda on the fence for Kenzie who can be a bit too much. Victoria's definitely the main draw for me, and I do agree with what was mentioned that the group scenes feel a bit too much like her passively observing rather than participating and. But since that seems also very much intended I expect it to change after things come to a head with Rain&Co, and she gets better integrated in the group. That or everything goes tits-up and half of them leave/die/swear eternal grudges against the rest/get recruited by Tattletale/whatever.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2018 09:29
|
|
|
My first reaction to seeing all the Undersiders show up was basically 'so how many of them are gonna die?' In my opinion it's either that or setting them up as direct antagonists alongside Lisa. And while the latter sounds fun I don't feel like it'll necessarily A: make much sense for them to give a poo poo about the team at all, and B: I'm not sure Wildbow would want to rest so much of the plot on the same core group of characters as Worm, especially with Lisa and Amy already doing that job more than well enough. E: I mean I really am biased in favor of them, more so the others than Tattletale herself, so I hope they make it out fine, but I'm just having a hard time imagining a scenario where they pop in for the big opening climax of the series and then just nicely head off to do their own thing again afterwards.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2018 03:28
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Ward: man, so his sections are all well-written, but I'm kind of getting tired of Rain; I know it won't happen, but I'm sort of hoping that Tattletale will just flat-out kill him, and let us get back to focusing on Victoria and the misfit toys. It's kinda funny that the few times we've seen him actually stand up for anything has been to his cluster of all people, in his dreams even if sporadically. So I was just gonna write something about how I don't care about Rain but I'd say it's interesting that Wildbow has made Rain into this kinda pathetic person who's very easy to casually dislike. I don't know if many readers are gonna be out there hating Rain or anything, but like you said being tired of him or finding him spineless and sad is much simpler. It kinda reminds me of Amy in the S9 arc, but there are two pretty big differences between the two. First is Amy had actual presence as something other than 'the pathetic person who hosed up badly and regrets it' before the event so as a reader it was more interesting. And second, the reader's investment in Amy didn't have to carry the whole climactic conflict like Rain basically carries this one. That's kinda the problem I'm having with Rain right now - he is not just our window into the Fallen side of the upcoming war, but also together with Erin makes up most of the 'stakes' as it were for the team. And naturally the same thing should be true for us as readers. But frankly, I just don't see how he's earned it narratively. It's not that he isn't complicated, or even sympathetic. It's just that his whole character is defined by his struggles with the Fallen and his cluster which gets harped on over and over. I don't feel like we know Rain at this point even despite being in his head four times, because his entire existence and all his interpersonal relationships are defined by the coming conflict and nothing else. I'm sure there are some people who like or don't mind Rain, but I feel like the way he's written is very explicitly in a way that isn't conducive to making the reader identify with him. I feel like making that his character out the gate and putting the burden of this very first major conflict in the story on his shoulders is not doing him any favors at all. I'm not actually worried about the conflict itself being interesting - the team is still fun to watch, you're invested in seeing the Fallen get hosed over, and of course introducing the Undersiders into the mix is an easy way to get people excited about it as well. But I'm not seeing Rain's long set-up paying off very easily here. At this point I'm struggling to think of a single character related to Rain or the Fallen/his cluster that I'm less interested in or whose fate I'm less invested in than Rain himself, good or bad. I'm therefore paradoxically very interested in seeing how his part of this conflict will go from a writing POV because I want to see if Wildbow can throw something into the mix that changes my mind on all this.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2018 22:07
|
|
|
Ward: Also the end of the chapter combined with my predictions from the last one makes the future look bleak for our old friend Foil. Hopefully I'm wrong and March just wants a hug and an updated power time-share agreement!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2018 22:20
|
|
|
I know a fair bit about cults and cult mentality overall, I had a bit of fascination regarding Aum Shinrikyo for a while and I've seen/read a good amount about stuff like Jonestown, Scientology and extreme Christian offshoots and the like. But to me there's a difference between being impressed with Wildbow's portrayal of the Fallen as a cult, understanding Rain's character and not judging him harshly for his choices and struggles, and actually caring about Rain. Rain has very blatantly been depicted as separate from the team in not-so-subtle ways, even in his own internal dialogue. This is obviously done as another well-executed portrayal of cult mentality and as the reader we recognize it as such - he feels simultaneously like the team can't help him, and that he shouldn't pull them into his poo poo, both of which are understandable and the latter theoretically laudable. But it again works back to not making me care about him because as a reader, I become invested in these characters through the ways they interact with and bond within the team in general and with Victoria specifically. And Rain (as well as Chris but mostly due to lack of time in the spotlight) doesn't get that like the others do. The exception is a few scenes with Tristan, but Tristan is another character the reader and Victoria both are set up to be wary of at this point, who doesn't have the same kinda likeable rapport as Sveta/Vicky or Ashley/Kenzie or Mad Anxiety/Hollow Point. One issue for me is, I don't have any grasp on who Rain will be once this conflict is over. Clashing with the Fallen is the first real conflict of the story, between the cult, the cluster and whatever March wants him to do Rain is basically not going to come out of this the same person he came in. This is a huge part of his story at this point - he has nowhere to go as 'Rain, the reluctant cult-member' any more, he's at a crossroads and he can't take any of the paths so he has to push through the wilderness instead. But I have no idea who he might be when divorced from his position in the Fallen and his conflict with his cluster.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2018 09:22
|
|
|
Falstaff posted:Speaking of Ward, something has been bugging me about the viewpoint character of Victoria. Namely, she just seems so far removed from Glory Girl of the original story in terms of behaviour and approach. Her being methodical is definitely new and not something we really saw in Worm. It does seem somewhat at odds with her impulsiveness at the time. But there's nothing saying she couldn't have simply enjoyed researching cape stuff at the time but not necessarily approaching her actual fights in the same manner, in which case her thorough research would follow pretty naturally given all the effort she's been shown to put in to change herself. As for all the things she aren't any more, I feel like Wildbow did a good job establishing the whats and whys during the first big fight myself.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2018 01:03
|
|
|
Yeah, but I feel like the news this chapter that she outright enjoys cape and power minutiae and seeing exactly how bloated and excessive her work becomes when not actively restrained is something beyond what you'd get if her natural inclination was the opposite. That's less so the case with other things - you see signs of her arrogance in how she judged Natalie's outfits, she constantly reinforces how she has to quash her impulsiveness in combat and think of ways to fight beyond brute force. You can very much see that they're conscious and difficult decisions she makes.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:I think it works but only if he can convincingly spin it as totally about the Simurgh you guys. Yeah to be honest the Fallen here seem pretty far divorced from the impression you got through Valefor in Worm. Obviously him being a big important cape vs most of our perspective being from regular and low-tier members this time around is part of that, but I definitely had the impression of something more image-focused and thematically coherent regarding the endbringers than the more generic 'redneck cult' flavor we have in Ward. The endbringers almost come off as an afterthought. Then again, you could also reasonably claim that the events of Gold Morning and the lack of Endbringer presence for years would have eroded that part of the cult somewhat as well.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2018 10:50
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Weeellll... [ward 5.10] I disagree with the last part. If anything, Ashley is a lot like Victoria as she is now, or at least sometime between Gold Morning and today. Both of them have serious problems with their powers due to the residual effects of a cape loving with their bodies. Both of them specifically struggle with controlling it and its lethality. Both have tougher times with control in combat situations, though for different reasons. Both of them want to do better and be better, but constantly struggle with backsliding. This part even more so if you subscribe to the theory (like I do) that Ashley doesn't really want to be a villain, she just doesn't know how to NOT be a villain and is very uncomfortable with her existence as a clone, to the point where she sees villainy as a safe retreat since it's the one part of her that she feels grounded in and really connects to. It's why I'm kinda expecting Victoria to actually take this relatively well, at least so far as standing up for her goes. As for the rest of the team, I think Chris will be fine. I suspect Kenzie might be bothered honestly, not necessarily in the way of being scared of Ashley or the like though. Sveta I'm divided on. As I've seen others point out, Byron will probably not be very happy about this. Tristan might get mad/upset about it but probably not so much as to make any long-term issue of it. Rain, well, somehow I doubt it'll be a problem there. What I'm very interested in is what will happen with Ashley from a Wardens standpoint. You get the idea that she's relatively closely monitored by them, and this could spark all kinds of complications on that front. All depends on how all her mitigating circumstances affect their judgement I suspect.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
True enough regarding the specific control over how she uses it, but I was thinking more in general terms, coming from her being a clone and all. I got the impression that clone + passenger = don't play so nice, especially after how Ashley was described at the end of the chapter. I don't agree with your dumpster comparison. In that situation, Victoria was maybe a little annoyed/mad, but fully in control of herself and fully in control of her power. She just did it thoughtlessly, to deal with a random thug, because she was used to having her family pull her rear end out of the fire if she hosed up anyway. In this case the story goes so far as to point out that Victoria can't see any sign of Ashley in her eyes at all. At the very least this indicates Ashley's emotional state wasn't remotely comparable to really anything we saw of Victoria in Worm, except I guess after Amy changed her brain where ironically she actually disengaged rather than escalate things further. And at most she might literally struggle to not commit acts of violence due to the effects of her passenger and/or being a clone.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
I think if she does see her old self in Ashley, she probably won't take it very well, because old Victoria was a pretty terrible person. It's worth noting that when we're talking about her regret shown in that interlude regarding what she did to the dude the text is pretty explicit about what kind of regret that is. When she panics and calls Amy and Amy berates her, the thing that comes up is the consequences for Victoria in a legal sense. She regrets doing it because it gets her in potential trouble, less so because it was the wrong thing to do murdering some random mook and the morality of that. This is then reinforced when Amy agrees to heal him and Victoria completely stops caring, even to the point of enjoying it when Amy performs some twisted mind-games on him. There's no sign that Victoria at the time actually valued his life in the slightest. That's why, in addition to the very different contexts for their lashing out (being assaulted by a powerful villain in the middle of a warzone vs beating up a fleeing non-cape on the street) and Ashley's parallels to current Victoria, I personally doubt that the story will have Victoria strongly connecting Ashley with her old self at all. It might cross her mind, but I'm not so sure it'll be something that really impacts her feelings on or handling of this situation.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
Ward 5.12: I feel stupid being unsure of whether the Speedrunners deliberately betrayed Snag's group or got Valefored off-screen because I'm not sure if the story expects this to be the most obvious thing in the world or a complete misreading of the chapter. I did go back and re-read the start of the commotion a few extra times and I'm struggling to read it in a different way but it seems kinda random. Other than that, I'm thinking this was probably not the Fallen plan A because even though it's a powerful move in general, it puts Mama in a pretty drat precarious position here. I guess team March might have screwed things up for them by incapacitating her to such an extent? Speaking of March, I was kinda expecting the Undersiders to show up with Rain's cluster and having the double-whammy of cluster-animosity be what ruined things, but it's never too late I suppose.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2018 15:50
|
|
|
Random rear end in a top hat posted:I think the text is presenting it as ambiguous, but I'm having a hard time imagining an established, non-insane group willingly working for the Fallen. At worst they tried to sell them out to the Fallen for a quick buck and got mind-whammied then. Yeah it is a bit out of nowhere, but I reread it again just in case and there's no way to read what happens as anything but the Speedrunners helping MaMa/Valefor at that point. Secondhand catches her, and both Last Minute and Final Hour's powers are protecting Valefor when Vicky strikes him. In addition to that they're clearly the fastest to react of all the heroes/villains and manage to do so in coordination no less, and also conspicuously strike at the heroes rather than the Fallen.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
Random rear end in a top hat posted:I was slightly confused, I though that Last Minute or whoever tossed the repeatedly-exploding bomb into the middle of the Hollow Point group (which would be a pretty clear sign that they aren't in their right minds), but that paragraph is imprecisely worded and could be referring to the heroes. So, on second read, this still could be the Speedrunners doing what Snag & co (but presumably not Prancer) want... or they could be Valefor'd and creating chaos as a distraction so they can get Mama to safety. Either one is interesting! It is plausible that Snag&Co's plan is actually quite different from what we've been led to believe so far, and they want Mama/Valefor alive and in their own hands for whatever reason. Either way, it's clear the Speedrunners want that at the very least.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2018 19:11
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:Ward: Today's interlude really underlines the conflicted feelings I have towards Ward as a whole. When I first heard that WB was working on a Worm sequel I really hoped that he would try his hand at a street-level story instead of the systematic escalation towards everyone saving (or destroying) the world that his other stuff tends towards, and Ward really delivered in that sense. I'm pretty sure that I've been burned out on large-scale apocalypse/world-saving antics in his works, and if Ward ever rises beyond the story of a small team doing local stuff I'll probably be disappointed... but that having been said, today's interlude was so much more interesting than the stupid nazis vs. monsters vs. psychiatric patients arc that's making up the bulk of the main story. Dot's interlude and even some of crystalclear's stuff felt the same way; I want a street-level cape story, but at the same time Ward's left me feeling like the camera is constantly stuck pointing at the least interesting thing going on. Interesting. As someone who feels kinda similar in a general sense, wanting more street-level stuff and less escalation - I'd have loved it it was just a Victoria character-study without a team or real cape-business at all - I'm actually enjoying the current conflict a lot more than a lot of the previous arcs (even despite being a self-professed disliker of Wildbow doing combat scenes) while this interlude bored me to tears. I never gave a poo poo about the guy selling powers as a plot-point compared to many who I see were excited about it being brought up again. I don't particularly care about Citrine or Number Man or Sierra at all. And I absolutely find Teacher to be THE most boring antagonist/villain in all of the Parahumans verse and get really dispirited every time it's made more obvious he'll be, if not the big bad, then at least a major force in Ward. The only parts that interested me were the early talks about the war and politics.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2018 01:27
|
|
|
For me it comes down to the fact that when it comes to superpowers, whether we're talking literal superpowers or magic or alien tech or whatever, I'm just far more interested in them as stakes than reading about the nitty-gritty logistics of how they work in combat. All the best combat-related scenes in Worm and Ward to me are the standoffs, Mexican or otherwise. Sometimes not literally standoffs - people are actively attacking or defending or whatever - but where the tension comes not from whether a character will hit their attacks or whatever, but rather whether a character can figure something out, convince someone, get reinforced in time, etc. For example the opening scene of 5.12 was a great read while the ending chaos was, well, chaos - tough to visualize, lacking in tension (to me), occasionally hard to follow and not engaging. Another bonus is as long as the powers are stakes rather than explored in minute detail through lavish combat scenes, they retain their mystique and remain interesting. The more we see a character fight in the Parahumans-verse, the less interesting their power becomes, because the magic wears off. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 8, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2018 01:55
|
|
|
I agree it should happen later and on Victoria's terms, the question is how realistic that is. Seems pretty clear that things are going to go further to poo poo sooner rather than later between the Fallen and the looming war (and I guess Teacher could show up at some point if he felt like it). At what point will Amy lose the luxury of time and opportunity to play hide and seek around Victoria due to emergencies or more pressing matters? Granted that would still likely not force them to interact, but crossing Vicky's path is quite likely. And even that, if forced, is less than ideal. At the end of the day, Victoria made the choice to be an active cape constantly operating in basically the exact same area as Amy was already based out of, interacting and cooperating with the same organization Amy is in. It's only fair that the effort is still made to respect her boundaries and limit their interactions to nothing when possible. But it really makes things more complicated for all involved, and when crises arise, that kind of complicated HR-coordination is likely among the first things to go out the window.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2018 00:22
|
|
|
I don't really feel like Victoria's and Amy's situations are that similar regarding their taking responsibility for their actions to be honest. At the end of the day, Victoria didn't learn from her abuses of power at all but rather gained perspective on them in retrospect, but she also never really did anything with long-term consequences that we know of. She doesn't have much responsibility to bear outside of her own mind, nobody is holding her to any standards nor reminding her of her faults besides perhaps Yamada in therapy sessions. Amy only had the one breakdown and didn't really need to learn from it at all since she knew it was terrible all along, but she also feels the weight of her responsibility every day, not just in her head but tangibly in her work, her movement, her need to be aware of Victoria and avoid her. Which, combined with the hints of isolation - in terms of having someone to really relate to and connect with that is, rather than physically - seems like an ominous mirror of her situation at the start of Worm, where her responsibilities were healing and her stress and isolation caused her to gently caress up in the first place. Though, she does at least have the advantage of experience and perspective this time around.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2018 02:27
|
|
|
21 Muns posted:Rain could wind up getting his missing bits swapped out for, like, a dog's or something. This development would also ensure that even Rain-haters must admit he is no longer a selfish rear end in a top hat, but rather a good boy.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2018 21:55
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Based on people's reactions to him currently I think actively participating would have generated too great of a negative reaction for many readers, so his inaction works well. I feel like when people complain about Rain, or complain about people complaining about Rain, the focus is far too much on the severity of what he did. Because the problem is not one of morals - plenty of capes have done far more hosed up poo poo than Rain and had readers not dislike them nearly as much. The problem is that the narrative feels like it's doing him a huge disservice by failing to get the reader invested either way. What Amy did to Victoria had narrative impact in Worm because we knew them beforehand, because it tied in to a huge hosed-up event involving the Undersiders and all the capes in Brockton Bay, and because it involved hosed up power stuff. It was great reading, it made her one of the most controversial characters in Worm and it always complemented the main story. What Rain did at the mall happened before the story of Ward even started, it basically launched its own arc (at the very start of the story no less) with minor tie-ins to other parts of the story or characters, it didn't involve anyone else we give a poo poo about at all and it was exceedingly mundane as far as hosed up poo poo goes. Frankly speaking, I don't really care about what he did in the slightest. I still enjoyed the whole Fallen storyline thankfully because Victoria is great, and the Fallen as antagonists are pretty good. I don't even dislike reading about Rain as such. But I still don't care what happens to him either way because the story has completely failed to make me invested in the crime he committed. If anything, making him more responsible for what happened would make me MUCH more interested in him as a character. But because of how information is being doled out to the readers - we found out what he did and then kept finding mitigating circumstances afterwards, compared to for example Amy's situation again where all the mitigating circumstances came earlier in the narrative, allowing her terrible gently caress-up to stand on its own and justify her going to the Birdcage - it keeps feeling like the story wants me to treat him with kiddy gloves. And my feelings on that are 'sure, whatever, can we get to the other hosed up members of team therapy yet?' Before this whole arc started, I was pretty ambivalent on a lot of Therapy members. Chris and Tristan have become a lot more interesting to me, but Rain just keeps spinning the wheels despite this being his story-arc. That feels a bit backwards. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 12:06 on May 21, 2018 |
|
#
¿
May 21, 2018 12:03
|
|
|
New Ward chapter: Looks like it's fanservice appearances time in today's chapter. I'm a simple reader conditioned to respond positively to this. Looking forward to more of them in good ol' Boston. Really missed Accord. Did not need to know that detail about our good friend Bad Apple however.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
navyjack posted:You guys acting like my waifu Akua is somehow untrustworthy is making me upset. She's perfectly trustworthy as long as you trust her to push her own agenda
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2018 14:25
|
|
|
Yeah I really felt like that pivot towards Gold Morning was incredibly inelegant. I guess you could justify it by arguing the showrunners really wanted dibs on the juicy info and didn't care about how it played but it still felt silly. Honestly I was huge on Ward throughout the Fallen operation even despite being vocally bored by Rain and not a big fan of combat scenes. But the last two arcs since the Damsel interlude it's been a few splashes of great stuff like Martin family dinner with a lot of really boring set-up in between. I'm kinda surprised since Ward had a lot of what could be called boring set-up fluff before but I still enjoyed reading it. Lately, not so much.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2018 22:23
|
|
|
I could say a lot of my thoughts about the plot and story and how I'm kinda disappointed in where it's gone since Arc 6. But I dunno, another part of me just isn't sure why I'm not enjoying this fluff as much as I did the earlier stuff. I didn't give a poo poo that Wildbow introduced eleventy-one threats to Gimmel while showing us none of it in favor of Victoria's therapy adventures before poo poo went south in Fallentown. And I even like most of team therapy more than I did pre-arc 6 and none really less, and have greatly enjoyed many scenes of them since. So why do I enjoy the chapters less now?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
New Ward interlude: I find it interesting that we're seeing the smaller villain groups of Gimel get repeatedly thwarted this arc. Also wonder who paid the villains to go for Kenzie, it seems a little brutish/counterproductive for the anti-Parahuman faction following the talkshow. Though I guess we don't know much about the true motives of Gary's sponsor. Kenzie really is the scariest matchmaker.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2018 18:01
|
|
|
violent sex idiot posted:the go at kenzie failed intentionally and is a rallying point for the cape unity group. probably designed and funded by tt Last time TT organized an attack like this we got confirmation that the villains knew what they were doing and were very careful to not even really injure the heroes they were fighting. All of a sudden they're inflicting heavy wounds to civilians when they didn't need to in the slightest? This isn't even a Rain deal where it was 'justified' for the greater good or revenge or whatever, it was actively detrimental if this attack was intended to fail at capturing Kenzie.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2018 21:26
|
|
|
violent sex idiot posted:yeah i guess none of those warlords would really be cool with cutting up a human woman huh. yeah, they wouldn't
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2018 23:03
|
|
|
Hmmm for a chapter focused on conspiratory multiverse machinations it was surprisingly gratifying if only because it gave us some answers as to what the most mysterious big bad candidate is up to and tied some factions together. I still don't feel like I have a great grasp on Scapegoat though, I definitely see why he turned villain from his thoughts and monologues this chapter but I don't really see why he'd join the Fallen specifically. All his thoughts basically amounted to 'gently caress being selfless it got me nowhere and everyone gets hosed eventually anyway' and while I guess it's a nihilistic outlook that matches with the Fallen I never saw anything else that fit their MO. And from how Teacher talked about it he apparently wasn't one of their important capes either which combined with his undercover position meant he couldn't have gotten much out of it in the way of cushy luxuries or material rewards. Also it's funny that this chapter implying that Goddess just Isn't That Bad You Guys just made me somehow more convinced that she and Amy partnering up will mean bad news. It has to be intentional that every time we've seen Amy in Ward, the takeaway for the reader is very ambiguous. The first time least so since she was intruding over Victoria's boundaries but there were still nuances. The second time hanging out with monsters and that final line people argued about. And showing up with Goddess inviting theories from 'she's planning to take over the world and keep Vicky for herself!' to 'awww what a cute date'. Honestly, seeing how Wildbow ends up handling Amy narratively in Ward is at least as interesting to me as Amy herself as a character, given all the different themes of Worm and Ward that her and Victoria's relationship plays into. E: Also I'm wondering at Dinah's plans too but her not giving a poo poo about capes isn't exactly very surprising given not only all the poo poo she went through in Worm, but also her attitude towards capes through the story. That said obviously 'cape-racist' is way too silly and simplistic a motivation for a seer so who knows what her plans are, I'm just not surprised that she'd use these methods is all. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Aug 18, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2018 23:23
|
|
|
I'm confused about what Amy wants to do here. Not like, morally or whatever, though there's definitely a discussion to be had there too. But she really has never seemed like either a leader or more importantly someone who WANTS to be a leader in any form. Her passivity and willingness to go along with other people's plans and ideas was one of her defining traits in Worm and the Dot interlude didn't make her look any more sure of herself. I can see why she'd want to go to Shin and get away from everything, but I'm not sure why she'd bring a bunch of capes along with her, especially villains. Pragmatic reasons i.e. she figures she's a target? It's something I have trouble wrapping my head around. What's Marquis's thoughts on all this I wonder. I also wonder if Chris will end up going along with her or if the narrative will intervene in some way. It would be weird to have him separated from Breakthrough to such a great extent when not only us readers but apparently the entirety Breakthrough don't REALLY know what his deal is. Especially since he's basically the only member of the group we don't know a lot about yet. E: Also yeah, it seemed like Goddess still had at least one member of her cluster still alive, so...that seems like it could be a bad time for everyone. I won't complain about Goddess going down like that since I felt like poo poo had to go down before the chapter finished once I saw we were still on Gleaming. And it was a little annoying to follow when Breakthrough were all mastered. I do feel like Goddess didn't end up as thoroughly characterized as I'd expected her to be for the size and impact of her role in the story though. E2: Also now we might never know what the deal she and Amy had was all about, neither seemed like they were very comfortable with it and I'm not sure why Goddess risked having her so close if she didn't have Amy mastered. Which combined with Chris leaving if he does, makes me suspect we might get Amy POV soon. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Oct 13, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Oct 13, 2018 19:45
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:I suppose, though at that point the limit of Amy's powers is basically "whatever wildbow wants to decide is the limit organisms can have." Like, she could also make biosuits that let her shoot organism-lasers, or all sorts of absurd things. I don't really agree. Before the whole food situation I would agree - we don't really see her counter parahuman effects like that previously in the story, even Bonesaw's mist while created by biotinkering was presumably a normal chemical reaction that could be countered. We didn't have any real reason to think Goddess's power could be countered in the same way besides the fact that Amy didn't seem to be mastered before. But once the drugged food was introduced we knew that the effect could be counteracted through ingesting some kind of actual, material agent into the body - and from there it seems not the slightest bit strange to me that Amy could use her power to counteract it as well in some way. Doesn't seem any different from how she countered the aforementioned mist in Worm. Honestly the drugged food thing kinda weirds me out too though and doesn't match with how I expected powers to work, especially weird since it seemed mostly irrelevant to Bianca's eventual demise besides making her mad at Breakthrough so it feels like it could have just...not been a thing. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2018 21:00
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:I feel like Wildbow is better at character writing at this point (obviously, he's had a lot more experience and he was deliberating pushing himself on stuff to improve during Twig and probably Pact), but I think part of it is that in a lot of ways the Undersiders were pretty unrepentant? I have a lot of fondness for them but there also wasn't a lot of active improvement. Ward is about people deliberately trying to improve and get better, and I feel like there's even a counterpoint to that with Amy. I was primed to have a lot of sympathy for Amy from Worm, and I still do, but it's also made pretty clear she's not actually getting better, she's just in a holding pattern, and she keeps choosing the exact wrong way to deal with things and then people make excuses for her. I feel like it'll be interesting to see how Amy is doing from a different perspective eventually. Though we've certainly seen that she's not really improved wrt Victoria and their relationship, we also have very little to go on regarding her general state of mind and situation. It's actually a little interesting to me that in several ways, the Amy in Ward reminds me more of the Amy of Worm 1 - 15 than the one we see at the end of Worm, and I'm starting to wonder how much of that is due to Ward being from Victoria's perspective. Between the language used being colored by Victoria's ideas and thoughts on Amy, and the fact that barring the Dot interlude we only ever SEE Amy when she's near Victoria, it's hard to judge how she's actually doing when Victoria isn't in the picture. Especially since once Amy's no longer primarily focused on Victoria, working with Chris at the end of the prison arc, she suddenly not only behaves but even looks (posture-wise) and talks very differently, much more reminiscent of late Worm Amy's demeanor. We do know from the Dot interlude she's not doing amazingly though.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2018 13:52
|
|
|
Omi no Kami posted:The way the goddess thing shook out, in particular, really bugs the crap out of me. To be fair, Amy may not have known that control issues were a big manifestation of Victoria's pathology, but how could she have possibly thought that more mind control, followed by whatever trying to grope her in the dark was (I assume rewriting her brain again, to undo the mind control), would've made things better? I never really got that take on the situation because we don't really have any context for how things ended up happening. We still don't know what the deal between Goddess and Amy really was for one thing. For another, I believeit was stated that Goddess found out about and became interested in Breakthrough from their TV-appearance, in which case I'm not sure what Amy could have done about the whole thing. Goddess was even the one who made contact with them wasn't she? I can't remember any signs that Amy thought bringing Goddess and Breakthrough together was a good idea in any way. All her gently caress-ups related to that situation are all about her own interaction with Victoria imo, it's not like she could control the crazy mind-control lady. Add to that we know in hindsight she was 'undercover' the whole time and trying to figure out her thoughts on things feels futile to me.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2018 20:56
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:Yeah, I've been assuming the touch in the dark was planned to render Victoria immune to Goddess' control. Which is genuinely useful! Less useful is doing it in surprise without Victoria's consent when Victoria knows more than anyone how a single touch from Amy can spiral into hell. I don't really believe that was it for two reasons. First, I feel like it would have come up by now if that was the real reason. It wouldn't HAVE to but it feels weird to leave that hanging unanswered this long after the situation's done with. Second, if she could and wanted to cure it that comes with a host of other questions. Why didn't she cure any of the other members of Breakthrough, either before or after trying to touch Victoria? And it would seem very arbitrary if she couldn't spread such a cure the same way she spread the cure for Bonesaw's mist, by just putting it in one person and letting them spread it naturally - in which case she wouldn't even have to touch Victoria to cure her.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2018 23:00
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 22:29 |
|
|
It's an interesting question, and one that I personally feel is best answered by looking at it as a consistent thread through their relationship so far. First time Amy freaks out and does everything wrong, it's because she's trying to create and maintain distance, and Victoria doesn't let her. Once Victoria is there anyway, she fucks everything up. This is kinda flipped in the finale when she's the one approaching Victoria to fix her. After the Vick-blob is created, she seemed to be doing great for ages, right? But notice that, besides looking at it as an act of penance, the most obvious effect of her going to the Birdcage is that it removes her from the people and places she's scared to do harm to. After Worm finishes and Ward starts, she continues to stay away from Victoria - granted at Vicky's request this time, but nevertheless distance is maintained. Now consider the two times they meed in Ward - the garden party and the touchy incident. Both times she ended up in near Victoria through the machinations of others - Carol the first time, Goddess the other. And both times she ends up loving up and breaching Victoria's boundaries. Granted she didn't get nearly as far the first time, but she did go running after Victoria despite that being an obvious Bad Idea. The trend seems to be that Amy knows she should leave Victoria alone and complies with it in a general sense, but for whatever reason her decisionmaking goes to poo poo if plan A of 'stay away' fails. This also adds an interesting dimension to her decision to leave for another earth entirely now. The one weakness to this idea though is she's pretty close to Victoria in the Dot interlude and, while frustrated/angry at the situation, she certainly doesn't act on anything or seem to be suffering mentally or anything.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2018 23:48
|
|