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I just remembered the scene where Rick and Cliff are watching Rick's appearance on the FBI show. The POV shot of the TV, hearing them joke around, recognize stuntman buddies, etc. Both funny but also a really warm moment.
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Jul 27, 2019 06:43
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I felt like the film was a western inside a western. Gave the ‘heavy’ a redemption arc as a hero in reality. Chekhov’s gun was hysterical and on the nose (dirty feet too). I’m a simpleton film watcher and found this to be rewarding and palatable without needing to have a 4D understanding of filmmaking.
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Jul 27, 2019 07:34
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LanceHunter posted:I couldn’t tell if that was a bit or some weird thing that actually existed that Tarantino was referencing. I think the bit was to just solidify how much better he fed his dog than himself...which only furthered his existence as a human golden retriever.
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Jul 27, 2019 07:44
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Big Bizness posted:I just remembered the scene where Rick and Cliff are watching Rick's appearance on the FBI show. The POV shot of the TV, hearing them joke around, recognize stuntman buddies, etc. Both funny but also a really warm moment. I loved how much this felt like watching a DVD commentary.
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Jul 27, 2019 07:51
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Was that a Sgt Fury and his Howling Commandos comic in Pitt’s character’s trailer? I instantly recognized those yellow Coca Cola crates on the movie set. My dad has a few in his garage. Don’t know why they went with yellow in the 60’s, but they stand out. EDIT: Looked up that FBI show because I never heard of it, and apparently the actor who played the main character was also the voice of Alfred on the Batman Animated series. Open Marriage Night fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 08:43
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I felt like Sharon Tate was handled just fine. Most people equate her name with the murders, it was refreshing to see her as a beautiful actress who made some wonderful films and celebrating her life instead. Also it was funny to see Kurt Russell and Zoe Bell as a married couple, given the ending of Death Proof.
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Jul 27, 2019 08:59
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Man someone said Bruce Lee teams up to help kill the Manson family and I'm really bummed that didn't happen
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Jul 27, 2019 11:23
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I'm actually going to push back against the self-aggrandizement piece because in a lot of ways the film is the opposite. Tate's death has often been mythologized into this end of the Hollywood Dream. I think Tarantino in his fantasy of saving Tate from being slaughtered, pushed back against the idea. Roman Polanski hovers over the film in the same way Manson does, not a real character, but someone we the audience recognize is a monster. Rick is still an alcoholic and while this trait is technically what probably saved Sharon, we've seen how it hinders his acting. Cliff might have been a hero for the moment, but he still most likely murdered his wife. Most importantly, people really don't just pay men in suits to sit there and smoke anymore. The reason that the Mansons were allowed to live on the ranch was that nobody was shooting westerns there anymore. Classic Hollywood was going to die regardless of the Manson Family. Hell, even in the fantasy of the film, Charles Manson probably got away. The film is really clear that nobody knows why they were attacked and there's no reason the prosecution can connect the night to Charlie. People talked about how the tone of the film's ending is weirdly unsettling. I think the Twilight Zone nature of the film recognizing that this is just a fantasy, but I think part of it is that there is still a lingering sense of doom. Saving Sharon that night doesn't save Hollywood or even necessarily Sharon from things like the PoS she's married to. It's a film that despite its elaborate recreations of 1969 Hollywood arrives at the conclusion that it's all doomed regardless.
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Jul 27, 2019 13:20
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Hot drat I really loved this film. I was just enthralled by the atmosphere and friendship. I really enjoyed the scenes of Cliff driving through Hollywood. Good stuff there. I think Timeless Appeal has the gist of it Hollywood was always doomed. Rick was just anxiety ridden I don't think his alcoholism was really affecting his acting skills. Also sort of unsure about Cliff killing his wife. His violent responses seemed very controlled and it doesn't seem like he would lose that control just because his wife was yelling at him.
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Jul 27, 2019 14:19
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I watched a 4pm showing yesterday, and the movie is still sticking with me. I feel like there is a good bit to unpack. This is a great film. Speaking of things to unpack, did anyone else notice the odd cuts during Olyphant's character's first meeting with Dalton? There were at least two while both men are in frame. He starts talking while not wearing a hat, then POP, the hat is on. I know it was a deliberate choice by Tarantino, but I am not sure of the significance. Making fun of how directors cherry pick their favorite takes no matter what?
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Jul 27, 2019 14:26
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Gooble Rampling posted:Speaking of things to unpack, did anyone else notice the odd cuts during Olyphant's character's first meeting with Dalton? There were at least two while both men are in frame. He starts talking while not wearing a hat, then POP, the hat is on. I know it was a deliberate choice by Tarantino, but I am not sure of the significance. Making fun of how directors cherry pick their favorite takes no matter what? I thought that was a shortcut to let us know that this conversation went on much longer than we saw on screen - but there was nothing of substance being discussed, just some Tinseltown networking, so why sit through the entire thing? Which seems counterintuitive to Tarantino's style, but I'm sure even he has little patience for actors swapping pleasantries for 15 minutes, trying to ingratiate themselves to one another.
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Jul 27, 2019 14:45
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KidDynamite posted:Hot drat I really loved this film. I was just enthralled by the atmosphere and friendship. I really enjoyed the scenes of Cliff driving through Hollywood. Good stuff there. I have to disagree with the idea that the movie is saying Hollywood was always doomed. Polanski and Manson do both linger in the film's background, but if the Tate murders never happened both of them would have been robbed of a lot of their power to do bad. Manson and his group probably would have probably killed more people but they wouldn't have become a cultural landmark. Tate and Polanski would have divorced eventually (the fact that Jay Sebring gets double the screen time of Polanski is noteworthy). When Polanski eventually got caught doing some horrific poo poo he wouldn't have a lot of the sympathy he received during his real arrest because he was Tate's widower. Big Bizness posted:One thing I was wondering during the end: I don't think it was trying to comment on audience bloodlust. It was primarily going for catharsis, but another part of it was a "shoot Hitler in the face" level of giving the middle finger to historical assholes. The Manson murderers didn't just get killed, they got humiliated. Because gently caress them.
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Jul 27, 2019 14:57
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JethroMcB posted:I thought that was a shortcut to let us know that this conversation went on much longer than we saw on screen - but there was nothing of substance being discussed, just some Tinseltown networking, so why sit through the entire thing? Which seems counterintuitive to Tarantino's style, but I'm sure even he has little patience for actors swapping pleasantries for 15 minutes, trying to ingratiate themselves to one another. A similar use of movie language I really liked was how the film starts getting grainier at times especially with the Mansons. I also really liked how they made Cliff invoke a cowboy when he gets to the ranch. His moccasins have laces around the back that stand in for spurs, he holds his keys like a gun, and the way he takes off his glasses stand-in for taking off his hat. We never really see Cliff dress up like a cowboy except for one moment I think, but he always invokes a cowboy. I do think that the movie kind of plays with the idea of Cliff being the very real-world version of the sort of characters Rick plays. And the real life equivelant can be very charismatic, someone you can easily get behind, but also scary. I do disagree with Rick being just anxiety-ridden. He legitimately does give good performances, but it's like he's doing it with his hand behind his back.
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Jul 27, 2019 15:27
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LanceHunter posted:I have to disagree with the idea that the movie is saying Hollywood was always doomed. Polanski and Manson do both linger in the film's background, but if the Tate murders never happened both of them would have been robbed of a lot of their power to do bad. Manson and his group probably would have probably killed more people but they wouldn't have become a cultural landmark. Tate and Polanski would have divorced eventually (the fact that Jay Sebring gets double the screen time of Polanski is noteworthy). When Polanski eventually got caught doing some horrific poo poo he wouldn't have a lot of the sympathy he received during his real arrest because he was Tate's widower. Hm that's a good argument. I don't even think anymore Manson murders happen in this universe since Cliff recognized them coming from the ranch. So he would probably give those details to police. But Old Hollywood is dead even with everything working out. Look at Steve McQueen "you're right I never had a chance"
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Jul 27, 2019 15:45
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JethroMcB posted:I thought that was a shortcut to let us know that this conversation went on much longer than we saw on screen - but there was nothing of substance being discussed, just some Tinseltown networking, so why sit through the entire thing? Which seems counterintuitive to Tarantino's style, but I'm sure even he has little patience for actors swapping pleasantries for 15 minutes, trying to ingratiate themselves to one another. Yeah I think it was meant to show that Dalton wasn’t interested in the conversation and won’t remember it. He doesn’t even put his book down. Contrast to him speaking to the girl and getting useful acting advice that he follows. I liked the movie a lot. Great story, leads, ending, definitely my favorite of the year. Two quick questions: -While in the car, I think Booth said that he’d never been in jail. But then later he says he was on a Houston chain gang for two weeks? -Was Rick actually cast in Great Escape, then got replaced during shooting? Or was he just imagining how he would have played the scene?
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Jul 27, 2019 16:40
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Two quick questions: - I believe Booth was referring to some stunt/film work in Houston. Didn’t he then say something like “hardest set I ever struck” or something. - It definitely felt like him imagining what he could have done in the role and how it would have been his breakout. To kinda highlight how all the talk about how close he was or wasn’t to getting cast still kinda stung. KidDynamite posted:Hm that's a good argument. I don't even think anymore Manson murders happen in this universe since Cliff recognized them coming from the ranch. So he would probably give those details to police. But Old Hollywood is dead even with everything working out. Look at Steve McQueen "you're right I never had a chance" Well, I think the film posits Old Hollywood transitioning rather than dying. The time of the Rick Daltons and Steve McQueens is winding down, but they can still have places in the New Hollywood that is to come. Hell, this is kinda what Tarantino has been saying through his whole career with his casting of actors who had been considered washed up. LanceHunter fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 17:22
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LanceHunter posted:
I think he said something like “that’s the last cop’s jaw I’ll ever break.” Good point on #2, yeah that makes sense he was imagining himself in the role, rather than be replaced late like Eric Stoltz in Back to the Future. How many references to other Tarantino movies were there? I caught: -Red Apple cigarettes -Michael Madsen cameo -The grindhouse intro music when Booth drives past the movie theater -I missed the big one, that Booth’s Cadillac is Mr. Blonde’s car. were there any others?
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Jul 27, 2019 17:43
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I think I caught Tarantino himself in some background footage. A truly subtle cameo if so.
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Jul 27, 2019 17:48
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Two quick questions: I'm probably misremembering but I thought he said he'd never been in prison, not jail (Though chain gang for a local jail doesn't seem super believable either, but it is Texas we're talking about.)
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Jul 27, 2019 17:49
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The girl actress on the western set was reading a biography of Walt Disney, who of course sanitized fairy tales that had dark elements and made them cute and dreamy. What a coincidence... Heh.
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Jul 27, 2019 18:16
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This movie owns. I keep randomly remembering the brutal violence and smile a big smile every time.
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Jul 27, 2019 20:25
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I felt like the Sharon Tate scenes were almost like a horror film. Whenever I saw her on screen, particularly being happy, I visibly cringed, because I just worried about later. When I saw her pregnant, I audibly exclaimed "Oh God, no." All of which just made the twist even better for me. This is why I LOVED this film
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Jul 27, 2019 20:43
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Yeah I think it was meant to show that Dalton wasn’t interested in the conversation and won’t remember it. He doesn’t even put his book down. Contrast to him speaking to the girl and getting useful acting advice that he follows. The simplest answer to question one was that he recognized the situation he was in and lying to tell them what they wanted to hear. He saw her behavior with the cops who drove by earlier, and was able to clock poo poo was weird, so he told a story to make himself seem like one of them.
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Jul 27, 2019 21:14
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:This is why I LOVED this film I think it's also why a lot of people who aren't familiar with the history will find the pacing to be off. I did not read up on the Manson family/Sharon Tate/ the night of her death before. I think that makes a massive difference on how enjoyable the film is at parts. My group were equally ill informed - our best recollection of it was that she was actually a member of the cult. I obviously will never ding a movie for my own lack of historical knowledge, and there was still a lot to love. But the Tate at the movies scenes and a lot of the final act lose their punch I think if you aren't already aware of how it really goes down. I'll see it again now that I'm familiar with the history. I treated not researching any of the history of Sharon Tate as part of my "seeing it blind" and I think it was a big mistake.
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Jul 27, 2019 21:28
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Gave it a day to think, and here's my thoughts.Hyrax Attack! posted:How many references to other Tarantino movies were there? I caught: This was just period--I think this music was actually played at theaters then. Re: Sharon Tate I think Tarantino chose to make her mostly dialogue-less for three reasons. One is respect to the character--portrayal of many of characters in this show were somewhat of a gag; I cackled when the camera panned to show Damian Lewis as Steve McQueen. I wasn't the only one, and it wasn't the only case (Bruce Lee). Didn't happen with her, and the seriousness of her portrayal was probably part of it. Related, had she had more of an active role, Robbie's performance would have been criticized. By keeping her in the spotlight but distant, there's not a sense of disrespect that would have emerged when it came to criticizing the accuracy of her performance. People will be mad no matter what, but I think it's just easier to handle the frustration that your movie was about something instead of something else since all movies are about that. Two, anything more and it's an entirely different type of movie. I'm sure that could be a fine movie (though I think more difficult, and with no benefit over the one presented). Three, and this gets to the root of why even Cliff and Rick are not specific real world actors. They could have been, but Tarantino composited each of them out of at least three actors to ensure they're nobody specific. If you writing actions that, if Sharon Tate did differently then the murders are thwarted, the it starts looking like a message about actions she should have taken. It reduces the surprise at the end, it changes the catharsis, and ultimately it might feel like nonsensical blame that she didn't become an action movie hero. I think people would have been far more justifiably upset at that outcome. Re: What's the point of the incredible violence. Other than meeting expectations of a Tarantino film, and utilizing violence as comedy, I think it follows an objective of taking down barriers of privilege. He will get flak for portraying violence against women, but one of his goals, based upon prior films and this one, is to eliminate this idea of the 'protected' status of women. I think the success is a reasonable point of contention, but the intent shared across Jackie Brown, Kill Bill, and this film appears to be to show that women are capable--in this case of doing wrong and suffering. The women are not spared because women are not mindless automatons to be driven and manipulated only by men and thoughts of men. I believe the level of violence was chosen to hammer home that point. Also of note, the character listed as "Flower girl" that runs away, obviously corresponds to a real world entity. Linda Kasabian, still alive, received immunity from the murders and served as the chief prosecution witness that scored death sentences (later commuted to life). None of the murderer names but Tex (and not his real name) remain in the credits.
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Jul 27, 2019 22:13
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Was the Jet Li fight scene a flash back or a dream as it cut to Cliff fixing tv antenna
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Jul 27, 2019 22:48
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I wonder if Rick and the way he regards the rumors about Cliff could be read as a bit analogous to Tarantino’s relationship with Weinstein.
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Jul 27, 2019 23:16
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Was the Jet Li fight scene a flash back or a dream as it cut to Cliff fixing tv antenna
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Jul 27, 2019 23:16
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I took it to be a daydream, because (combined with the implausibility of the scene), it cuts back to Pitt back on the roof and he just goes “nah”. It’s also possible that the scene was originally supposed to be real, but there wasn’t a place for it in the final edit so it was reframed as a fantasy, which would explain the outfits not really making sense. General Dog fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 23:21
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Did the scene before the possible flashback say that Randy was the gaffer, or that Randy was friends with the gaffer? I thought the latter, which would support it being a flashback. The costumes being totally unrelated to the scene he was filming current day lend that idea credence Edit for above: the fight at the end supports the idea he could have beat up bruce Lee. I think flashback. AARD VARKMAN fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 27, 2019 |
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Jul 27, 2019 23:39
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General Dog posted:I took it to be a daydream, because (combined with the implausibility of the scene), it cuts back to Pitt back on the roof and he just goes “nah”. It seemed real to me. Pitt was remembering why the "guy from Green Hornet" might not like him, recalls the incident with Bruce Lee on the set of Green Hornet, and then says "fair enough".
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Jul 27, 2019 23:45
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I don’t think any of the scenes people think were imaginary were imaginary.
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Jul 27, 2019 23:49
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It's an important scene, too. I was in a packed theater and him beating Bruce Lee was the absolute loudest cheering/laughing the whole night. I'd be surprised if most people read that as a fantasy, and it colored the rest of the movie a lot, plus tied in perfectly with the final scenes.
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Jul 27, 2019 23:49
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I think this will be his least popularly acclaimed movie from general audiences. I've seen all of his movies and this is the first time I heard actual complaints outside the theater. It just loses too much emotional impact if you aren't intimately familiar with 60s film and the Manson family.
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Jul 28, 2019 00:01
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The juxtaposition of Rick shooting Lancer to Cliff going to the Spahn Ranch (and both being shot like a TV western?) *kisses fingertips*
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Jul 28, 2019 00:05
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TheAardvark posted:I think this will be his least popularly acclaimed movie from general audiences. I've seen all of his movies and this is the first time I heard actual complaints outside the theater. It just loses too much emotional impact if you aren't intimately familiar with 60s film and the Manson family. As the credits were rolling I heard someone grumble "Well, I liked about TWO THIRDS of that movie!" from a few seats down.
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Jul 28, 2019 00:09
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JethroMcB posted:As the credits were rolling I heard someone grumble "Well, I liked about TWO THIRDS of that movie!" from a few seats down. That's just weird. There were two very distinct groups at my theater: Knew the history, loved the whole thing Didn't know the history, loved Cliff's parts and the funnier Western filming parts There was no in between. are there history buffs out there who just wanted a straight retelling of the late 60s?
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Jul 28, 2019 00:21
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TheAardvark posted:I think this will be his least popularly acclaimed movie from general audiences. I've seen all of his movies and this is the first time I heard actual complaints outside the theater. It just loses too much emotional impact if you aren't intimately familiar with 60s film and the Manson family. I dunno, I liked it and I'm not intimately familiar with 60s cinema outside of the big ones (e.g. The Great Escape). Granted, the pacing was languid with a capital L but I got that very dreamlike feel from the idealization of everything and there was just some degree of comfort from that. It felt like that feeling I get when I eat at this local steakhouse that has maintained its decor since the 50s; nostalgic, warm, antique but relatable and welcoming. When they go into Musso and Frank's it immediately hearkened back to that. I think if you're not familiar with that kind of experience or have an interest in the rose-colored nostalgia Tarantino is clearly engaging in, I can see how the movie won't grab you.
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Jul 28, 2019 00:22
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MaoistBanker posted:The juxtaposition of Rick shooting Lancer to Cliff going to the Spahn Ranch (and both being shot like a TV western?) *kisses fingertips* The best part is that the acting on the Rick side is all powerful and naturalistic while all the stuff at the ranch is stilted and other worldly. Basically the style of acting you would actually see in a TV Western as opposed to what Rick is doing. By the way, "He said he was the devil and uh... He was here to do some devil poo poo." is maybe the funniest thing Tarantino has ever written.
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Jul 28, 2019 00:23
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TheAardvark posted:That's just weird. There were two very distinct groups at my theater: how do you know this
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Jul 28, 2019 00:51
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