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shrike82 posted:Lmao, just got started on the new Gibson book and he spins the alternate history Clinton win as potentially being due to a “reduction in Russian manipulation of social media” This is the one thing they can readily identify as a difference between the alternate timelines. All they really know is that "something" happened in 2015 and that "something" was a sociopath from an alternate future messing with the timeline to cause forever wars that spawn ever more advanced military technology. The book is full of unsubtle indicators that things are not magically better in the alternate present. California's wildfires loom in the background of the opening chapters. The protagonists from the alternate future speak about how the people in the alternate present aren't any happier or more prosperous and that they're all still heading towards calamity. StrixNebulosa posted:Not gonna argue that Hillary was a garbage candidate with a bad campaign (because boy howdy she sure was bad), but I do think Russian meddling influenced the outcome enough for Gibson to be able to use it in his book. Russian meddling is also very on theme in a novel about people from the future meddling in alternate pasts through the internet. You'll adore Agency if you like Spook Country.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:14
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Kesper North posted:Gibson usually seems like he's making fun of or outright critiquing liberal centrist boomerism to me. Yeah, and I doubt anyone who finishes Agency will think it's some #resistance fantasy.
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Jan 31, 2020 19:27
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pseudanonymous posted:This may be verboten to say, but the Star Wars sequel trilogy written by Timothy Zahn is pretty good. It doesn't hold up well to adult eyes. It's so unambitious and afraid to raise the stakes. You're told a lot that Thrawn and C'Boath present existential threats to the New Republic, but it doesn't ever really feel that way. It's like Zahn was operating under the rule that nothing the heroes do in his books can be more exciting or significant than what they'd already done in the movies. It especially suffers in comparison to the roughly contemporary Dark Empire comics that just go for broke and try to be as bonkers as possible.
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Feb 9, 2020 17:15
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Tommu posted:Does anyone have any recommendations for zombie/post apocalyptic? None of the following have zombies. All of the following are seminal post apocalyptic novels. The Postman is about conflicting narratives and values in the post apocalyptic world. A Canticle for Liebowitz is about preserving knowledge and faith. Earth Abides is about rebuilding some kind of society in the wake of a super plague. On the Beach is about coming to terms with the end of humanity. Alas, Babylon is about how real men like legs.
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Feb 11, 2020 16:54
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Hey guys, has anybody read any of the Elder Scrolls books? Or Warhammer 40k tie-ins? I prefer Forgotten Realms novels.
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Feb 18, 2020 16:08
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Proteus Jones posted:Ah, so you didn't actually read them. Got it. I look forward to hearing all the ways Sapkowski isn't writing in the long and grand tradition of pulp sword & sorcery fiction. Nevvy Z posted:I didn't realize they were all the same person but Matthew Swift stuff was pretty good and so was Harry August and so is the XMen ripoff of Harry August More correctly, Harry August and HoX/PoX are ripping off Kate Atkinson's Life after Life, which is also quite excellent. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 18, 2020 |
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Feb 18, 2020 17:38
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gvibes posted:I thought memory called empire was pretty solid Yeah, I enjoyed it. Jedit posted:They were, technically. Catelyn just didn't notice that Walder Frey was weaselling around the rules by serving his guests with neither bread nor salt. They're not, though. They're just custom. Walder weaseling around the technicalities of the custom shows how tenuous of a shield they really are.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:35
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Jedit posted:The fact that he did weasel around them shows that there was a need to do so. Customs are hugely important in every culture, but they're still just customs. Walder doesn't weasel his way around the bread and salt because he's afraid of consequences for his actions. He knows that any consequences he faces for betraying the Starks depend on who wins the war, not on what dishes he serves them. He just weasels around the custom to soothe his own conscience and tell himself he acted righteously in response to the Stark's initial betrayal. Cat is stupid because she thinks consequences actually do depend on being fed the customary food. Safety Biscuits posted:That's not stupidity; that's living by your culture's rules. She's already been involved in breaking her culture's rules when Robb reneged on the wedding pact. Indeed, breaking that pact is exactly where she and Robb show just how loving dumb they really are. Robb thinks these customs actually mean something beyond enforcing the status quo. These dipshits think a powerful and slighted man with an inferiority complex is going to let them get away with breaking one custom because they did so to honorably observe a different one. Walder doesn't give a gently caress about Robb doing the honorable thing by some girl from some petty house. He wants respect and power. That's all he's ever wanted, and he's willing to do anything to get it. Cat is too dumb to realize that obvious fact. Cat and Robb should've figured this out when Ned was killed. They stubbornly and stupidly insist that Westeros works the way custom says it should work when all the evidence around them points to the fact that Westeros works the way the powerful decide it will work. E: To use a contemporary American politics analogy: Cat Stark is basically Susanne Collins, except Susanne Collins is just pretending to think traditions and customs will constrain Trump's actions. In other words, Cat Stark is just a dumb as a Republican senator pretends to be. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 18:36
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TOOT BOOT posted:Also Robb is like 14 in the books and his dad is Ned Stark, of course he's going to do the honorable thing and not the smart thing. Robb is Ned's son through and through. He could be grizzled and middle aged and he'd still make the same mistakes, just like his dad. That's what makes those Starks dumb. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that honor and custom don't have intrinsic power.
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Feb 22, 2020 02:09
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eke out posted:None of the issues with the series' writing are really fixed in the last book so I suspect you'll have similar problems. If anything, the characterization gets thinner, if that's possible. I think the prose improves in Death's End with Ken Liu's return as translator. Martinsen's translation comes across as almost juvenile in places with how simply the prose is rendered. Liu seems to capture a bit more nuance and complexity. But you're right about the characters getting thinner. They're basically just cutouts designed to comment on the bonkers poo poo that goes down. And I think that bonkers poo poo is worth a read despite the sketchily drawn characters.
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Feb 27, 2020 19:11
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eke out posted:Yeah, I read them anyways because it was interesting, it was just... a lot of sacrifices are made in the name of getting the cool ideas down on paper. I don't even know that he's actually bad at writing characters, it just seems like he didn't care to try any more than the bare minimum. Yeah, I think he can write decent characters. Three Body Problem has decent characters. I think you're right that he just isn't concerned about characters when he's busy describing popping suns like cosmic balloons and dropping the Solar System into two dimensional space.
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Feb 27, 2020 19:51
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StonecutterJoe posted:They pretty much were, weren't they? IIRC, all of the characters were taken straight from Tracy and Laura Hickman's D&D campaign. Basically, yes. The characters were hashed out in the planning and playtesting campaigns that ran as part of the development of the game and novel lines. The first novel is essentially a "let's play" of the first two modules in the series. Then when that novel didn't cover the four adventures it was supposed to cover, they realized they couldn't just continue on like that, which is why the second two modules get summarized with a poem and short prologue to the second novel. From that point on, the second and third novels more loosely follow the adventure modules. The adventure modules also get less linear as the series progresses, so the novels only cover one of the possible paths players can take. While the series as a whole doesn't age well, Dragons of Winter's Night is an exception. There's a huge jump in the quality of prose from the first novel (though it's still pretty par for the licensed D&D fiction course). More significantly, they realize their cast is too big, and so they begin focusing on just a handful of central characters with some very good results. The climax is legit tragic because the characters it's focused on are interesting and fairly well fleshed out. The third book then ignores a lot of that well developed characterization to force everyone into place for its finale.
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Mar 9, 2020 18:43
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Gnoman posted:So, I've suddenly developed an interest in two very different types of setting, and was hoping somebody would have an idea of where I might find them. Some of Ted Chiang's short stories like "72 Letters" in Stories of Your Life And Others are in this vein.
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Mar 23, 2020 21:46
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Loucks posted:Can anyone recommend apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic fiction that doesn’t make me want to punch the author? That is, no characters who exist only to be sex objects and no obvious self-insert supermen. Bonus points for female or POC authors and major characters. Obviously Heinlein is right out. Any favorites? Bonus points for interesting and logical world/culture building. You may really enjoy Marcel Theroux's Far North. It's about a person trying to survive in post-apocalyptic Siberia. Neville Shute's On the Beach has some dated gender roles, but the women characters are well drawn and respected. And it's just a beautiful novel about coming to terms with the end of the world. The comedy option is David Brin's The Postman. In that, the genetic supermen are the villains, and a cabal of women take up roles as sex objects to assassinate them.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:34
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freebooter posted:I recall, the first act of this novel is the strongest. Yeah, the parts where the novel deals directly with the plague and how people struggle to survive in its immediate aftermath is the strongest. The middle section where the two communities build themselves is fairly generic and lacking in detail, and the end is just King pushing hard to put a bow on everything and be done. Really, the only problem I have with the uncut version is some of the more excessively vile poo poo that was cut out of the original edit, like I don't need to read about Trash getting sodomized with a handgun.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:39
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space marine todd posted:What Gibson book to read after Agency? I loved Peripheral and I am enjoying the poo poo out of Agency, but quickly running out of pages and trying to figure out what to read next of his. My friends keep recommending Pattern Recognition, but I also somehow haven't read Neuromancer yet... As others have said, the Big Ant trilogy (Pattern Recognition, Spook Country, Zero History) is your best choice because it's stylistically the most similar to The Peripheral and Agency (especially Agency, which was going to be a return to the contemporary dystopia of Big Ant before getting subsumed into the Stubs). You should give Neuromancer and the rest of the Sprawl trilogy a go at some point simply because they're so seminal to the genre. But you should also read the Bridge trilogy at some point. They're about as dated as the Sprawl novels in terms of envisioning a future that isn't going to come to pass, but they're also still quite timely in their focus on consumerism, reality television, immigration, and interstitial communities. And they're his best plotted and most tightly written novels featuring some of his most enjoyable protagonists.
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Apr 28, 2020 20:15
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freebooter posted:Also because Neuromancer is just a really cool heist story And also because Count Zero is just two really cool heist stories in one.
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Apr 29, 2020 04:27
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freebooter posted:Finished The Stand. I'll probably end up writing a super long review about it, but long story short, I really liked it - probably even more than when I read it as a teenager. I don't think it's his actual most competently written work - that probably goes to The Mist, Pet Sematary or some of the early Dark Tower books - but I can definitely see why a lot of people consider it his "best" book. It's weird, self-indulgent, naively racist, very much a book of two distinct halves, and ends with an unashamed deus ex machina... but it's also undeniably an epic and a classic. I actually feel a bit sad to have finished it! It's definitely my favorite novel by King, but that may be simply because I prefer apocalyptic stuff to spooky stuff. My one issue with the book (aside from the scene we previously mentioned) is what you said that it's "very much a book of two distinct halves." The top half is so indulgent and languidly paced. The bottom half is a headlong rush into the finale. And I always feel like it fails to live up to the promise of the first half, which leaves me sad upon finishing the book.
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Apr 29, 2020 17:33
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Anything that was made into a Tom Cruise movie is automatically forbidden in my reading recommendations. This is a bad rule because that is a good movie based on a good book.
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May 4, 2020 22:11
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Hobnob posted:Yeah, and if you really hate Tom Cruise you can watch him die over and over again in it. And since he does many of his own stunts, you get to see him experience genuine pain.
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May 4, 2020 22:31
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Iron Lung posted:Also, I would like to delve deeper into cyberpunk - any recs or thread favorites? Neuromancer is one of my favorite books (i know, how original), i've read snow crash and a few others along the way, but would love some recs for other stuff to check out! As Khizan said, read the sequels to Neuromancer. You'll probably also enjoy Gibson's second trilogy: Virtual Light, Idoru, and All Tomorrow's Parties. He really refined his style with those books. StrixNebulosa posted:Hardwired by Walter Jon Williams is weird 80s cyberpunk by a really fascinating author (that I want to read) Sadly, I found this to just be schlocky and bland scifi action. I'd only recommend it if you wanna dig into the origins of CP2020 and CP2077's setting. Lunsku posted:George Alec Effinger's When Gravity Fails from 1987 has its cyberpunk set in middle eastern, islamic future, and I remember enjoying it a lot when reading the translation in 90s. Really should try to pick it up again, plus the follow up novels. I think he establishes a great setting in this, and the trans positive aspects are really nice, but I also feel it spends too much time establishing that setting to have a strong narrative. The sequels really benefit from not having the burden of so much exposition. I'd highly recommend them if you liked WGF. I'll also add: Rudy Rucker's Hardware is a farcical cyberpunk novel about becoming robots. It has three followups, but I haven't read them. Bruce Sterling's Islands in the Net is a great novel from the perspective of a "normal person" in a cyberpunk world. Alfred Bester's The Stars My Destination is sorta proto-cyberpunk, a lot of the ideas, but not quite the aesthetic or vibe yet. In a way, it's the other ingredient along with PKD that gave us the foundations of cyberpunk. More recently, Annalee Newitz's Autonomous is a fun novel about pirating pharmaceuticals and falling in love with a robot.
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May 16, 2020 20:15
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StrixNebulosa posted:Some good recs in this post but this line is wrong, Pattern Recognition is one of the best books Gibson's written. It's a fascinating look at the internet of 2000 and how that affects culture and it's not sci-fi but it's really really good. Yeah, Pattern Recognition is excellent, though Cayce is very much a rehash of Marly from Count Zero, so if you're bingeing Gibson, you might find that annoying. Spook Country and Zero History are also interesting and fun novels, but Gibson really ping-pongs between his story threads in those and they feel half-baked at times. And then you get to The Peripheral, which is really a return to form for Gibson. pseudorandom name posted:Speaking of Gibson, I read Agency this week and wow that book is bad. A lot of time spent where nothing of consequence happens, the actually interesting part of the story is completely unexplored and in the end Hillary Clinton saves the day And Then Everybody Clapped. The emergent AI and techbro save the day at the end as I recall Agency has two interesting ideas, one of them held over from The Peripheral. Eunice together with the Server do set up intriguing possibilities for the third novel, but giving Gibson's penchant for rehashing older ideas, I suspect that will have much the same end result as All Tomorrow's Parties. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 16, 2020 23:25
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pseudorandom name posted:Nope, Eunice and the Good Billionaire do jack poo poo. Huh, I thought Eunice's reveal is what brings the crisis to its end. Shows how well it stuck with me. I wasn't bothered by the pat resolution to the other conflict because the point is that Ainsley and Eunice are similar in their near omnipotent capabilities. Of course, having two supremely capable protagonists means there's little sense of tension. ianmacdo posted:Yeah. They made a big deal about these billionaires, but then she just kills them with no problem. Seems like more Billionaire killing could solve a lot of their problems. Well yeah, the issue is never her ability to kill him; it's whether or not the rest of the billionaires will let her. The thing is the people in future London don't really have problems aside from banal domestic issues and the ennui that comes from living in a post scarcity society that rose in the aftermath of the deaths of billions. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 19:49 on May 17, 2020 |
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May 17, 2020 01:33
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Fart of Presto posted:Also, wtf is up with the non-spoiler postings about the ending of Gibson's Agency? Sorry about that. FWIW, I went back and tagged my posts. General Battuta posted:It might be my favorite Gibson, it’s so good. The reveal of the origin of the Footage is spooky and incredibly satisfying. Yeah, it's aged in light of what social media and web video have become over the years, but it's set in 2002, so it's not an entirely inaccurate picture of internet communities of its time, and the reveal about the footage is fantastic.
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May 17, 2020 19:55
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pseudorandom name posted:William Gibson's Agency plot discussion: Yeah, I reread the last few chapters and you're right. Eunice even says so herself.
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May 17, 2020 23:13
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Ccs posted:Like in that essay Le Guin says "But in fantasy, instead of imitating the perceived confusion and complexity of existence, tries to hint at an order and clarity underlying existence," which may have been true when she was writing it. But every author since Martin has been consciously writing morally grey characters in highly political situations without any hint of order or clarity. And real history of course has none of that order or clarity, so one could write a modern fantasy story written as truthfully to the medieval mindset as possible and still be writing about a world with confusion and complexity of existence. Modern fantasy in the vein of Martin is very much a reaction to the the fantasy Le Guin describes. So many of the most significant moments in ASoIaF come from the reader and focal character realizing there is no "order and clarity." According to Lewis's The Discarded Image at least, the medieval mindset was grounded in the concept of a divinely ordered world. The Order of the Spheres is, I think, the correct term for it.
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Jun 17, 2020 02:21
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Cardiac posted:Eh, morally grey characters hardly started with Martin. Or that his writing is in any way unique. Martin is nowadays a entry author to the fantasy field, but beyond that he is nothing except a decent and lazy author that wrote a trilogy about the war of the roses. Sure, you can trace morally grey characters in fantasy back to Boromir or Elric or Fafrd and the Grey Mouser or Conan even. That's not my point. Martin is, however, the most widely known example of more contemporary fantasy that is specifically questioning or "subverting" the sort of fantasy Le Guin described.
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Jun 17, 2020 05:25
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Thom and the Heads posted:I'm finishing Blood Meridian and would like some...lighter fare. Kate Atkinson's Life after Life-- A serial lives story like Harry August but imo better in just about any way. (As an aside, if you like serial lives stories, check out House/Powers of X, the X-men relaunch event series from Marvel.) Octavia Butler's Kindred-- Time travel as a symbol for the chains of history, a black woman from the 70s is drawn back in time to save her white slave owner ancestor in 19th century Maryland. Not fun, but one of the best and most meaningful time travel novels there is. David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself-- Basically every time travel paradox and motif rolled into one rollicking story with some exploration of sexuality thrown in. Jack Finney's Time and Again-- Time travel through intense nostalgia for a previous age. Samuel Delany's Empire Star-- more a time loop than time travel. Also often packaged along with Babel 17, which isn't time travel, but is an interesting novel about language. Heidi Heilig's The Girl From Everywhere-- YA time travel novel about the relationship between history and identity and a love letter to Hawaii. William Gibson's The Peripheral-- A return to form for Gibson with time travel as an allegory for borders and exploitation.
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Jul 29, 2020 20:45
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General Battuta posted:Return from what exactly From not writing science fiction, of course. 
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Jul 30, 2020 03:46
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freebooter posted:I'd decided not to bother with William Gibson's Agency based on negative reviews here and my own poor opinion of Gibson as a tedious centrist Twitter liberal, but it turned out it was on my wait list at the library so I read it anyway. Pleasantly surprised (since my expectations were so low); it's certainly not his best book and is quite a step down from The Peripheral, but it was fast-paced and readable and compelling enough even if it never ends up going anywhere interesting. The rewrite came because he didn't plan on it being a sequel to The Peripheral until after Trump won. Then, instead of rewriting the background story to be about Trump, he decided to frame the whole thing as a stub. I don't think the Clinton stuff was ever center stage. Ninurta posted:Agency isn't a great book, but I look forward to the last book in the series. From my understanding that fork in the timeline with Clinton as President resulted in an earlier Apocalypse, this one Nuclear in origin. In the main, Peripheral timeline Trump was elected and the Kleptocracy kept on chugging until the end. No idea why he would need to rewrite the plot, it's not like Stross's Atrocity Archives where he had to redo it whole cloth because his country went crazy. Yeah, the stub that much of Agency takes place was made by the sociopathic guy who tries to accelerate and escalate crises to see how people in those stubs invent new ways to kill each other. I'm also looking forward to the third one as well because while Agency wasn't great, it wasn't any worse than the sequels to Pattern Recognition, and there's a great deal of potential in connecting Eunice with the Server.
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Aug 29, 2020 19:14
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:There were dragonlance novels, but I think that was more of a universe and less of a specific event over the entire run. There is a main arc to the Dragonlance series comprised of the Chronicles, Legends, Preludes, and other books, but I doubt they add up to the length of the HH. There are just under 200 Dragonlance novels in total. There are now well over 30 Drizzt novels. That may be the longest single fantasy series by one author, but they're also a lot shorter than the average HH novel I think. Taken as a whole, the Forgotten Realms novels might be the biggest novel series. There are over 300 of them, split across over 70 different trilogies and series.
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Sep 2, 2020 02:01
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Yeah, I suspect Liu Cixin doesn't have great freedom to express his true beliefs about contemporary Chinese politics. Also, one should read good fiction regardless of the author's politics. E: So you can go ahead and skip The Dark Forest
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Sep 9, 2020 21:32
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Shardy posted:I picked up Count Zero, Mona Lisa Overdrive, and Virtual Light when they were just on sale. Just finished CZ. I got a kick out of Gibson basically describing Instagram filters incidentally. Looking forward to the other two. Note that Virtual Light begins a whole new trilogy (the Bridge Trilogy) that doesn't follow on from the Sprawl novels. What I'm saying is you should probably go ahead and get Idoru and All Tomorrow's Parties.
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Sep 17, 2020 00:48
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xiw posted:This is one of my favorite coffee table books. Great art and a fun read with weird tangents about flying bricks with dinner-plate wings, with a perfect veneer of 'yes yes I completely believe this outlandish theory i'm arguing' Yeah, the book is wonderful and gorgeous. And now I know there is a TV movie I need to watch.
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Sep 28, 2020 15:24
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Cavelcade posted:Hi thread, I'm looking for some fantasy or Sci fi by a female author for a book club that wouldn't normally read that. I've read The Left Hand of Darkness recently and was thinking of suggesting the Dispossessed, but Kindred by Octavia Butler also looks good. Kindred is excellent, but if it's something that a lot of members have already read, consider Butler's Parable of the Sower instead. For more LeGuinn, you might also consider The Lathe of Heaven, but it's pretty short. Freebooter mentioned Life after Life by Kate Atkinson, and I would recommend it over The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August because its prose is stronger, and it's a more thoughtful take on the premise. Jemisin gets a mixed reaction around here, but The Fifth Season is a fun and interesting read built around a neat perspective gimmick. It's YA, but Heidi Heilig's The Girl from Everywhere is a fun and interesting novel about maps, time travel, and colonizing Hawaii.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:19
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Ken Liu is a good writer. I'm not sure Joel Martinsen is. His translation of The Dark Forest really hurts it relative to the first and third novels. The prose is flat and makes the novel even more of a slog. I did enjoy Death's End for all the galaxy brain high concept poo poo and ultimately felt it made reading the entire trilogy worth my time.
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Oct 20, 2020 03:30
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Sibling of TB posted:I almost bought earthseed because "hey a full series!" but "A multiple Hugo and Nebula Award winner’s powerful saga of survival and destiny in a near-future dystopian America." and I'm not sure if I want to read dystopian future America right now. They're fantastic, but as others have said, they're brutal and the dystopia they present is very close to home. Another thing, "complete series" in this case means two novels.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:19
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jng2058 posted:Eh, because it's noir. The rub is that Chandler wasn't writing about how much of a stone loving badass Marlowe is while Morgan is definitely writing about how much of a stone cold loving super badass Kovacs is. Morgan isn't writing noir so much as he's using its trappings to dress up his sci fi power fantasy. While they don't check off as many of its genre markers as Morgan's Altered Carbon, Gibson's Neuromancer, Effinger's When Gravity Fails, and even some missions in 2077 do a much better job of capturing the ethos and atmosphere of noir in a cyberpunk setting. The board game Android does too.
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Jan 15, 2021 17:21
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ulmont posted:Mickey Spillane writing Mike Hammer, though... Yeah, good point. But I think of the Hammer books as less "noir" and more "hard boiled" or "pulp detective". PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jan 15, 2021 |
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Jan 15, 2021 18:20
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quantumfoam posted:Nobody answered my question about Matt Ruff's Lovecraft Country so I'm guessing the Catfishing element is extremely high in it. Nah, not really. If you're thinking about the part from the show that has a catfishing element, it's different in the novel.
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Jan 24, 2021 18:01
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