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I feel like if you can strike a deal with the universe where you receive what you need to kill a person who poses a uniquely insurmountable problem, and the cost is, "If that specific person comes back to life, it'll be harder to kill them a second time," that undermines the narrative stakes. Like, with all the extra powers Sukuna has been shown or implied to be sitting on, he doesn't particularly need to do the Gojo-killer again to win against the backup squad. You could argue it makes sense in-universe that he genuinely believes that was a fair trade, but I don't think that makes it feel any better to readers.
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Mar 29, 2024 07:35
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Brought To You By posted:Naturally charismatic with an interesting power that lent itself to a great fight. Basically the anti-sukuna. Reggie really was the full package kind of character and the only problem is we lost him so soon after he showed up. Sukuna waited until Reggie died to enact his plan. Coincidence?
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Mar 29, 2024 07:40
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Honestly I think the why didn't everyone do binding vow poo poo is overdone but having higirushima learn and abuse them would've been interesting and in character, leave it to the lawyer to think of good ones on the fly
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Mar 29, 2024 14:10
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Huh. That's actually a great take. Huge missed opportunity for sure. Despite my childish whining I am still gonna rate this manga at least an 8/10 by the time its all said and done
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Mar 29, 2024 15:17
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I feel like any rules lawyering (lol) about binding vows really depends on the fact that you're making a vow with yourself. Even if you're a top-grade rules lawyer, you're also aware of any loopholes you're trying to build into the vow which would weaken it I think. It's basically like Nen that way, where trying to make an easily broken restriction just leads to lovely benefits.
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Mar 29, 2024 16:25
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A backup link for tcb version https://tcbbackup.banglagan.in/chapters/7700/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-255
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Mar 29, 2024 17:41
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So as far as I can tell the TCB translation is saying that Sukuna didnt get an instant cast, it just let him cast at all with one arm vs gojo. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 17:59
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cgfreak posted:Is he... breakdancing through Sukuna's CT? This is peak lmao Alright Gege, fine, I'll accept this explanation, it's still kinda bullshit, but at least you tried.
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Mar 29, 2024 20:07
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Yeah, it wasn't for the "instant" cast, but primarily because he couldn't use it at all while missing one arm. It might've also led to Gojo misreading it as a normal Dismantle which worked out for and was probably intended by Sukuna.JackGeneric posted:I feel like if you can strike a deal with the universe where you receive what you need to kill a person who poses a uniquely insurmountable problem, and the cost is, "If that specific person comes back to life, it'll be harder to kill them a second time," that undermines the narrative stakes. Like, with all the extra powers Sukuna has been shown or implied to be sitting on, he doesn't particularly need to do the Gojo-killer again to win against the backup squad. You could argue it makes sense in-universe that he genuinely believes that was a fair trade, but I don't think that makes it feel any better to readers. The chosen narrative framing works because the downsides of Sukuna's regular Dismantle had been pre-established by the story (it can be blocked/tanked) and came to fore during the Gojo fight, in which the limits of Sukuna's ability were being tested. Actually just possessing the potential for the World Dismantle via Binding Vow from the beginning would've been cheap, but by instead having this ability be born not just from his fight with Gojo but it being even the root of Sukuna's focus on Mahoraga makes it all a lot more interesting, and establishes Sukuna - despite being an ancient evil already hailed as "the strongest" - as the sort of character that gains power as he's tested in a dark mirror to plucky punchman protagonists. That he had to make it temporarily stronger to beat Gojo at the expense of making it more difficult to wield henceforth is narratively inconsequential and, frankly, a very strange thing for people to be focusing so much on; it's just adding flair. Also, due to having his Domain disabled Sukuna has already been genuinely pushed into using his fancy new World Dismantle a couple times (he had no good solution against full power Kashimo or fighting inside Yuta's DE). With Black Flash coming into the equation for his second wind he's already ran out of tricks in the bag other than Fire Arrow, and the fact that he's not pulled it yet (and recall how he used it against Jogo just for fun) strikes me as setting up it's got some weird Binding Vow conditions attached to it like it can only be used once against the same opponent or some poo poo.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:04
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Conspiratiorist posted:Yeah, it wasn't for the "instant" cast, but primarily because he couldn't use it at all while missing one arm. It might've also led to Gojo misreading it as a normal Dismantle which worked out for and was probably intended by Sukuna. With Six Eyes Gojo should have been able to detect it was not just a normal Dismantle. Gojo reads the cursed energy, not the signs/chants/whatever. Conspiratiorist posted:That he had to make it temporarily stronger to beat Gojo at the expense of making it more difficult to wield henceforth is narratively inconsequential and, frankly, a very strange thing for people to be focusing so much on; it's just adding flair. It's not just flair as it's a (possible) explanation for people as to why Gojo got caught off guard. EDIT: Also, this latest chapter, Yuji points out that Sukuna can no longer cast it with just his right arms, celebrating that everything is coming together (and setting us up for another rug pull moment.) rkd_ fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 21:17
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I don't see why you think it's narratively inconsequential. It was weird that every further appearance of the world slash seemed to emphasize that it required chanting, wind-up, etc, making it retroactively very weird that Gojo was caught totally off guard by it despite the Six Eyes when just recently we saw characters like Kusakabe able to predict and react to it. I'm satisfied by this explanation though. It feels a bit clunky to get it so much later, but it resolves the logical issue I had with the scene. Now, given the emphasis on Miguel only coming if Sukuna's domain was disabled, and the way the TCB translation phrases the end of the chapter after his second black flash as Gojo "getting his RCT output back. Now, Sukuna..." and ends on the cliffhanger, I have to think he's getting Malevolent Shrine back. I like this as an alternative to getting a full heal, so I hope Gege goes that route instead of having Sukuna restore himself or worse, both. It presents a more interesting challenge to the protagonists and I can see them overcoming it, given that it will probably be nerfed by Sukuna's condition and they saw in the Gojo fight that the key to dealing with Sukuna's DE is to damage him as much as possible.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:31
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Black Flash always makes me think of that part in Dragonball Super where Goku replenished his drained stamina by having a friendly fight.
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Mar 29, 2024 21:36
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rkd_ posted:With Six Eyes Gojo should have been able to detect it was not just a normal Dismantle. Gojo reads the cursed energy, not the signs/chants/whatever.. This chapter also doesn't explain how Yuta got cut either because now we know Sukuna needs the Enmaten specifically and not just the chant + one hand as I previous speculated. Something he was fully incapable of performing with Rika holding two of his arms, and Yuta having just cut off one of his other arms. I'm fully braced for Gege to either re-draw that for the volume or just outright say Sukuna made another binding vow for a one-handed world cleave. Otherwise this means that Sukuna broke his binding vow so I guess Gojo's damage is undone? :shrugs: How does this even work when the consequence is that someone dies as a result of the binding vow? That is also ignoring how yet another person who really should have been pulled into the Hiruguma plan which still had the highest success chance but wasn't. And not Miguel, I mean the guy with the hands that could have held Sukuna down for even a split second to give Higuruma a better shot. gently caress's sake, I also went back and realized that Yuta never fully manifested Rika which I take to mean he could have been actively synergizing copied abilities through himself, along with the swords in his domain to pull off some Chrollo Lucifer combos instead of doing one at a time and randomly drawing them. Did he also think he could afford to hold back both a fully powered Rika and his own capabilities just because it has a 5 minute time limit? Even when the fallback plan was to have Maki rush in to backstab Sukuna should Yuta's domain collapse?
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Mar 29, 2024 22:03
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Miguel is cool. That’s all.
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Mar 29, 2024 22:15
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Brought To You By posted:This chapter also doesn't explain how Yuta got cut either because now we know Sukuna needs the Enmaten specifically and not just the chant + one hand as I previous speculated. Something he was fully incapable of performing with Rika holding two of his arms, and Yuta having just cut off one of his other arms. I'm fully braced for Gege to either re-draw that for the volume or just outright say Sukuna made another binding vow for a one-handed world cleave. Otherwise this means that Sukuna broke his binding vow so I guess Gojo's damage is undone? :shrugs: How does this even work when the consequence is that someone dies as a result of the binding vow? why would gojo's damage be undone because sukuna breaks a vow? e: oh wait you mean the damage to gojo. i don't think breaking a vow can go back in time and do anything but that's where i'd expect the "backlash" or whatever to come into play. i really hope the eventual winning strategy isn't "cursed energy got mad at sukuna" tho. also agree that yuta getting rocked is either a clue to something or collateral damage from this explanation, it doesn't line up with the news stuker fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 29, 2024 |
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Mar 29, 2024 22:31
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stuker posted:why would gojo's damage be undone because sukuna breaks a vow? I don't actually expect the damage to be undone. It's just part of a larger issue I'm having with the idea that people can make binding vows that let them win a fight and the side-effect of potentially breaking that vow subsequently is nebulous at best if it can't be circumvented altogether. Really, this also recalls Hakari sacrificing his arm to Kashimo knowing he had someone to fix it for him. Unlike HxH where the implied and demonstrated consequences of contracts and restrictions make them far more or a trade-off. JJK lets people basically give themselves a momentary cheat even if the cost afterwards is negligible at best.
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Mar 29, 2024 22:42
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HxH is a very different story and binding vows feel less intentionally chosen, they're more like innate techniques with downsides. You certainly are never asked to admire the cleverness of someone who minmaxes the binding vow system.
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Mar 29, 2024 22:49
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Brought To You By posted:This chapter also doesn't explain how Yuta got cut either because now we know Sukuna needs the Enmaten specifically and not just the chant + one hand as I previous speculated. Something he was fully incapable of performing with Rika holding two of his arms, and Yuta having just cut off one of his other arms. I'm fully braced for Gege to either re-draw that for the volume or just outright say Sukuna made another binding vow for a one-handed world cleave. Otherwise this means that Sukuna broke his binding vow so I guess Gojo's damage is undone? :shrugs: How does this even work when the consequence is that someone dies as a result of the binding vow? A Binding Vow with yourself just removes the benefit if you break it, so even if Sukuna broke it he would not die because of it. However, him just breaking it like that seems to go against the idea that Binding Vows with yourself only work if you genuinely believe that the trade-off is fair. If Sukuna knew he could just break the Binding Vow after and proceed with using the World Cleave normally, surely even he could not genuinely believe it was a fair trade-off.
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Mar 30, 2024 00:45
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Tosk posted:I don't see why you think it's narratively inconsequential. It was weird that every further appearance of the world slash seemed to emphasize that it required chanting, wind-up, etc, making it retroactively very weird that Gojo was caught totally off guard by it despite the Six Eyes when just recently we saw characters like Kusakabe able to predict and react to it. It's narratively inconsequential because the World Dismantle and its rules were invented right then and there. The scene could very well have played out as, instead of Sukuna losing one arm from the AoE Purple, having both available to do the whole song and dance (which for the purposes of this hypothetical let's say is the default required for the WD), Gojo realizing something was wrong and raising his arms defensively while focusing his CT output on Limitless or attempting a counterattack before Sukuna can pull it off, and either way getting bisected because he recognized a split second too late what Sukuna sought out of Mahoraga. The end point would've been much the same, but Gege decided to play with Binding Vows for flair. Tosk posted:I'm satisfied by this explanation though. It feels a bit clunky to get it so much later, but it resolves the logical issue I had with the scene. Now, given the emphasis on Miguel only coming if Sukuna's domain was disabled, and the way the TCB translation phrases the end of the chapter after his second black flash as Gojo "getting his RCT output back. Now, Sukuna..." and ends on the cliffhanger, I have to think he's getting Malevolent Shrine back. I like this as an alternative to getting a full heal, so I hope Gege goes that route instead of having Sukuna restore himself or worse, both. It presents a more interesting challenge to the protagonists and I can see them overcoming it, given that it will probably be nerfed by Sukuna's condition and they saw in the Gojo fight that the key to dealing with Sukuna's DE is to damage him as much as possible. That's been on my mind since two chapters ago. Maki noted he'd stopped RCTing his heart right before the first Black Flash, and since he didn't go ahead and immediately fix his arms after the KO, he's probably focusing on repairing the brain damage from Unlimited Void in order to get his DE back. rkd_ posted:A Binding Vow with yourself just removes the benefit if you break it, so even if Sukuna broke it he would not die because of it. However, him just breaking it like that seems to go against the idea that Binding Vows with yourself only work if you genuinely believe that the trade-off is fair. If Sukuna knew he could just break the Binding Vow after and proceed with using the World Cleave normally, surely even he could not genuinely believe it was a fair trade-off. Since you couldn't take back the intended immediate benefit you got from the BV, seems reasonable that the consequence in this case would be either the technique just fails (read: you simply can't break it) or maybe you could stack an even more restrictive BV on top such as losing it forever. Whichever the case, as with most Binding Vows we've seen it's not something that'd be tested outside of extreme desperation, which seems the narrative intent.
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Mar 30, 2024 01:23
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Gojo not killing them as soon as he was freed is the funniest blunder, although now I would say that might have been a difficult fight in its own right, even though at the time what we knew about Gojo didn't make it seem that way. I will be surprised if we just get no further POV from Gojo somehow, or something happens with his body. Gege does love the red herrings but our attention was specifically drawn to the fact they recovered it, and as we saw just now with Ui Ui, that was a calculated risk.
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Mar 30, 2024 02:13
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they're going to make a coatrack with his torso and an ottoman with his legs. just like that curse user toolmaker from the exam arc promised.
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Mar 30, 2024 02:21
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Tosk posted:Gojo not killing them as soon as he was freed is the funniest blunder, although now I would say that might have been a difficult fight in its own right, even though at the time what we knew about Gojo didn't make it seem that way. He's off on a farm with Nobara. Edit: Alternately Nobara comes back with one of Gojo's eyes replacing her lost one.
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Mar 30, 2024 02:24
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ImpAtom posted:Edit: Alternately Nobara comes back with one of Gojo's eyes replacing her lost one. ok now i want this to happen
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Mar 30, 2024 04:10
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Domain Expansion... Pachinko??? Of course it's an adaptation and of course he hates it lmao MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 05:24
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ImpAtom posted:He's off on a farm with Nobara. You may be on to something 
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Mar 30, 2024 05:59
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Sukuna waited until Reggie died to enact his plan. Coincidence? If Reggie didn't die he could fit into a number of roles during this operation since I think he'd have been willing to help out at least with Kenjaku along with Iori. Give Reggie a solid month with free reign to utilize any receipt the gang can pull together and I'd have him loaded with hospital treatment bills and spa tickets just as a start.  Just this move alone, if he can apply it to other people, means everyone can probably regain all their cursed energy and heal minor aches and wounds. Get a surgery bill and internal stuff should also be healed instantly. Pair Reggie with Shoku and Ui Ui and he's perfect for Triage. To say nothing about giving him receipts for any kind of vehicles, weapons, and even larger buildings for him to manipulate. Just imagine rocket launchers that fire when the desired target steps into their line of fire. Suddenly having multiple houses dropped on from the sky while a fleet of trucks barrel down on the ground. Maybe even a Yacht or two. And that's just the flashy and big items. Honestly, the possibilities are endless for Reggie.
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Mar 30, 2024 06:15
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Mei Mei starts an LLC, hires Gojo, and charges for his combat services. Settle the tab after he dies and get a receipt for all the damage he did to Sukuna. The rest of the fight so far has just been stalling for time while everyone maxes out their credit cards to pay the bill. Ui Ui is grabbing people to get their wallets.
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Mar 30, 2024 09:00
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 I think Gojo saw the slash but couldn't physically dodge it in time. From chapter 285, look at how close they're standing to each other. He's exhausted with his guard completely down. I thought there was more distance between them, but they were actually really close to each other. We know the dismantle travels at crazy speeds since even lightning man Kashimo couldn't move out of the way. Kukusabe focused 100% of his attention on deflecting it using his counter-attack style, and his simple domain was specialized for it. During the fight, Gojo never displayed that he was capable of doing sick matrix-style reactions like Maki (and Maki heard the chant coming, too). He was hit by Mahoraga's dismantle after all. Also, near the beginning of their fight, Sukuna threw a normal dismantle which would've hit him had Limitless not stopped it though I'm not sure if Sukuna was purposefully aiming for the building behind him or the building as just collateral. rkd_ posted:You may be on to something This is likely Gojo moments before the world splitting dismantle hits him with his 6 Eyes telling him he's hosed. yum fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 14:22
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Was starting to feel exhausted from so many (awesome) fights in the culling game but holy gently caress Maki is so drat cool in 198 Oh ok and we are back to itadori, angel and fraud, perfectly timed then Omg shinra via plugging an usb cord on a sorcerer Bro wait they actually dropped in 800 soldiers super fortnite LFG!!! Wait when exactly did they add jjk characters to fortnite? How close was the timing?! 213 SU-KU-NA! SU-KU-NA! SU-KU-NA! SU-KU-NA! SU-KU-NA! NO SUKUNA YOU FOOL, YOU ABSORBED THE FRAUD DNA, NOW YOUR rear end IS GRASS omg it's canon MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 22:17
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ImpAtom posted:He's off on a farm with Nobara. so nobara would be the new kakashi of the series?
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Mar 31, 2024 03:44
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MorningMoon posted:Was starting to feel exhausted from so many (awesome) fights in the culling game but holy gently caress Maki is so drat cool in 198  give us more live posting. it's been a while since we've had a fresh take
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Mar 31, 2024 03:45
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Honestly professional wrestling poster getting way into JJK while babbling almost completely nonsensically about fortnite makes extreme sense for where we are generally (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2024 16:51
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Sukuna can floss while still doing incantation signs and this is why he's peak jujutsu form
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Mar 31, 2024 17:52
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Sukuna tag teaming with the super shikigami is so insanely strong after that fight in the anime. Goddamn. Have started Gojo vs Sukuna. I am aware of some vague "fraud reveals" that should happen probably a dozen chapters from where I'm at, and that by the time I catch up people are fed up with the story just being bodies getting thrown at Sukuna, so I'm excited and slightly afraid of how this fight goes. But man is Gojo fun to see fight Someone go revive megumi's dad, Gojo needs a tag team partner against Mahoraga it's so over God this match is like what Will Ospreay vs Bryan Danielson will look like MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 31, 2024 |
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Mar 31, 2024 18:05
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Official translation this week was pretty weird in that everything idiomatic flowed pretty well but when it came to describe the technique intricacies it seemed to be translated by someone who'd been thrown into translating JJK for the first time without any prior context.
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Mar 31, 2024 19:02
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That has been a problem for a while. How many people do we have left in the cast? When everyone who can fight gets beaten, can something interesting happen again?
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Mar 31, 2024 19:33
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Gojo vs Sukuna was pretty dang good. Everything it needed to be, and hell, that was only twenty chapters ago to the present. It should be fun to see every jabroni left standing try and do poo poo until Itadori gets his shot and then Sukuna's testicles explode because at some point he pulls out the rabbits against someone and all get nailed by Nobara, who hit one with a blackflash to make Sukuna feel 683476 blackflashes at the same time.
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Mar 31, 2024 20:36
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Assuming nobody else gets a second wind from triage and Hakari is spent from fighting Uraume, we still have Yuji, Maki, Choso, and Miguel's breakdancing.
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Mar 31, 2024 20:37
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Considering Yuta didn't even get to use max power Rika, I'd be very surprised if he's just completely out of the fight, but who knows. After all, Kenjaku died without ever showing the cursed technique he imbued in his domain during the Yuki fight.
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Mar 31, 2024 20:42
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He did put on the ring before the DE so that was him going all out.
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Mar 31, 2024 20:47
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