|
fallout new vegas still doesnt have mod support on console so maybe they could put that on a planet
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 08:37 |
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:I want to see the responses to the feedback that the game had too much friction. The arguments from the people who championed things like fuel and environmental hazards after they were told "it's too hard and not fun". Environmental hazards are absolutely there and stupidly unfun/unimmersive while pretty much harmless in a just-use-the-matching-icon-consumable-once-you're-indoors way. I thought I was packing a spacesuit, but it might as well have been a bikini for how little it does to protect from hot/cold/gas/whatever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 18:52
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:Environmental hazards are absolutely there and stupidly unfun/unimmersive while pretty much harmless in a just-use-the-matching-icon-consumable-once-you're-indoors way. I thought I was packing a spacesuit, but it might as well have been a bikini for how little it does to protect from hot/cold/gas/whatever. They used to be much stronger and actually affect gameplay. There's an interview where Todd talks about how he didn't think they were fun, so they basically nerfed them into just being flavor that didn't actually impact gameplay. It's the same interview where he talks about how he thought needing to fuel your ship was too much friction and un-fun so they got rid of that too. The problem is they did all this way late in the dev cycle, so you've got poo poo like perks and ship attributes that directly interface with that poo poo that just don't do anything now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 18:55
|
|
|
SOMEONE at BGS knew they had to sometimes to tell the players no, and I want to hear from them. I want to hear they still work there and didn't resign in disgust, for one thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:01
|
|
|
Remember when a guy went to prison for leaking Starfield?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:02
|
|
|
Todd was actually right about refueling and environments.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:04
|
|
|
They have a thousand planets, they could have had the main quest lines in places where environment/fuel were negligible concerns and still kept the hard stuff for the players that wanted to go out there and work for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:24
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:Todd was actually right about refueling and environments. There are interesting and dumb ways to do that. If it's a constraint that you're forced to plan around and engage with some gamplay system in a way that makes sense? Yeah, it's the good kind of friction that forces you to actually, you know, play the game as opposed to just doing whatever you want at all times. If it's just some stupid bullshit like you have to drink space-water every 30 seconds to prevent space thirst? Yeah, that sucks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:If it's just some stupid bullshit like you have to drink space-water every 30 seconds to prevent space thirst? Yeah, that sucks. Considering that this is 99% of the survival genre, I simply can't picture a universe where Bethesda of all people come out with a better implementation. It was probably exactly that and they did well to scrap it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:37
|
|
|
Doesn't Fallout 4's survival mode already surpass that low bar?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:39
|
|
|
If that's the case, then fair enough. Fallout 3 made me drop the franchise, so I wouldn't know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:41
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:If that's the case, then fair enough. Fallout 3 made me drop the franchise, so I wouldn't know. Shame, you missed the best entry in the franchise then.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Doesn't Fallout 4's survival mode already surpass that low bar? Yeah more or less, and the restrictions created a fun game where progress felt meaningful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 19:57
|
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Doesn't Fallout 4's survival mode already surpass that low bar? other than the survival diseases which were just punitive for no actual gain
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:01
|
|
|
Right, I remember Survival mode being a big step forward for the game. I didn't want to over speak because, of course, I quickly found a modded overhaul I preferred, but double checking a wiki corroborates my memories: Survival Mode was good and whatever team or clique within BGS created it was probably pushing for something similar in Starfield.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
I still think basic food/water survival stuff would be really stupid in Starfield but there is surely some kind of friction that would provide an interesting challenge to the player beyond shooting and getting shot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:24
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:They used to be much stronger and actually affect gameplay. There's an interview where Todd talks about how he didn't think they were fun, so they basically nerfed them into just being flavor that didn't actually impact gameplay. It's the same interview where he talks about how he thought needing to fuel your ship was too much friction and un-fun so they got rid of that too. Problem: you made a bunch of unfun mechanics Solution: come up with better mechanics Reality: no mechanics
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:40
|
|
|
Gabe Newell played a half life one build and said the whole game blew chunks; and the thing is he and Todd Howard may have been completely right in those particular builds, but you have to keep going, you can't just toss the poo poo out and a release a bland toothless lump of a game. That's the biggest sin, it's just so drat gutless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:43
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:Environmental hazards are absolutely there and stupidly unfun/unimmersive while pretty much harmless in a just-use-the-matching-icon-consumable-once-you're-indoors way. I thought I was packing a spacesuit, but it might as well have been a bikini for how little it does to protect from hot/cold/gas/whatever. It's weird how stupidly "worst of all worlds" it is-- the suits don't actually protect you, there's no UI element to show you how not-protected you are, and the actual debuffs don't do anything anyways, and the inventory system/UI is so rear end that you don't want to gently caress around with swapping gear unless you absolutely have to anyways I'd give examples of ways to do it better but since the answer is "literally everything", I feel like it'd be more interesting to find anyone who's managed to do it worse. Star Citizen when running for 30 seconds caused fatal heart attacks?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 20:45
|
|
|
Right. I don't know how the mechanic was annoying enough to tone down but they decided that letting you catch AIDS through your suit was great gameplay
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 21:06
|
|
|
FeculentWizardTits posted:Remember when a guy went to prison for leaking Starfield? I mean, he went to prison because he was stealing entire pallets of stuff from his warehouse job. Leaking Starfield just got that poo poo noticed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 23:53
|
|
|
Ursine Catastrophe posted:It's weird how stupidly "worst of all worlds" it is-- the suits don't actually protect you, there's no UI element to show you how not-protected you are, and the actual debuffs don't do anything anyways, and the inventory system/UI is so rear end that you don't want to gently caress around with swapping gear unless you absolutely have to anyways Tiny Timbs posted:Right. I don't know how the mechanic was annoying enough to tone down but they decided that letting you catch AIDS through your suit was great gameplay You can see your "protection" stats in the character screen for temp, radiation, corrosive, and I think biohazards. It is kinda buried but basically where it was in Fallout/Elder Scrolls. The numbers there are completely meaningless because regardless of the values, you will still be unprotected in certain environments after a certain amount of time. The time may vary, but it has absolutely nothing to do with, for example, the displayed temperature. Some locations are just flagged with "fuck_player_up" and some aren't, and regardless of the level of protection you have, you'll get hosed up in the ones that are. Even better, certain hazard types, like temperature and radiation, get applied to the entire zone, so indoors or outdoors, unless you pass through a loading zone, you are getting fried/frozen/hosed. You can get hypothermia in the greenhouses in New Homestead, while the farmers are walking around in shorts. Of course there's also the fun of toxic mushroom spores and sandstorms causing respiratory damage, while I'm in a loving space suit. There is no way this could have been missed in play testing, it's 100% consistent and it happens in a bunch of MSQ locations, nevertheless, it shipped. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Apr 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 00:19
|
|
|
FishMcCool posted:If that's the case, then fair enough. Fallout 3 made me drop the franchise, so I wouldn't know. Sorry to hear you hate fun
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 01:24
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:There is no way this could have been missed in play testing, it's 100% consistent and it happens in a bunch of MSQ locations, nevertheless, it shipped. I think my favorite thing I had happen was one specific landing area apparently positioned my ship's cockpit over a gas geyser so I started taking toxic damage every time I was sitting in the pilot's seat, in my spacesuit, in my ship And of course due to the nature of the procgen and landing area selection, this happened 100% of the time I landed at that outpost going forward
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 07:51
|
|
|
Fanatic posted:Sorry to hear you hate fun Fallout stopped being fun the second it started delaying Elder Scrolls. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 08:34
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Shame, you missed the best entry in the franchise then. New Vegas? In hindsight it's like a freshman class of philosophy wearing an Elvis costume.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 09:56
|
|
|
Ursine Catastrophe posted:I think my favorite thing I had happen was one specific landing area apparently positioned my ship's cockpit over a gas geyser so I started taking toxic damage every time I was sitting in the pilot's seat, in my spacesuit, in my ship lol. That is incredible. On the one hand it seems like your bog standard Bethesda jank, but on the other hand, it only happens because of the bullshit half-implemented environmental hazards and not because it's a neat mechanic having unintended consequences. The whole thing is so broken they couldn't apply any status effects to NPCs, presumably because half the galaxy would die instantly, so you can be in a room full of boiling acid with your suit alarms screaming and your lungs melting and as long as it's "indoors" your companions will very happily walk around without a suit on. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Apr 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 12:48
|
|
|
BlueGrot posted:New Vegas? In hindsight it's like a freshman class of philosophy wearing an Elvis costume. dang you must have gotten a lot more annoying
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:21
|
|
|
It's cool how they let down every side of the environmental hazard debate. No one is pleased. I wanted Spacerim and would have hated all that poo poo and indeed still hated everything that remained in the game. Todd expertly also let down people who like a completely different ( unfun for me, personally ) genre. It just goes to show they had no idea what they wanted this game to be and that when you can just jettison mechanics it's clear none of them were all that great, inherent to the game, or finished.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:23
|
|
|
What is this thing with people talking like New Vegas is supposed to be politically impactful or philosophically relevant or something? People liked it cause it had better quests, locations, companions, and dlc than fallout 3 not because it had incisive political commentary
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:23
|
|
|
Casey Finnigan posted:What is this thing with people talking like New Vegas is supposed to be politically impactful or philosophically relevant or something? People liked it cause it had better quests, locations, companions, and dlc than fallout 3 not because it had incisive political commentary because it has better quests, locations, companions, and dlc, but they still wanna talk some poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:27
|
|
|
A metric of how good or bad a Fallout thing is is whether it understands that the Brotherhood of Steel are assholes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:35
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:A metric of how good or bad a Fallout thing is is whether it understands that the Brotherhood of Steel are assholes. Both 1 and 2 the BOS weren't all complete assholes. Particular in one some were, but there was also more chill BOS people as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:38
|
|
|
Casey Finnigan posted:What is this thing with people talking like New Vegas is supposed to be politically impactful or philosophically relevant or something? People liked it cause it had better quests, locations, companions, and dlc than fallout 3 not because it had incisive political commentary Caesar says "Hegelian dialectics" at one point and Intro to Philosophy students' ears perk up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:47
|
|
|
New Vegas is Brown Fallout 3 is Gray
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:47
|
|
|
Casey Finnigan posted:What is this thing with people talking like New Vegas is supposed to be politically impactful or philosophically relevant or something? People liked it cause it had better quests, locations, companions, and dlc than fallout 3 not because it had incisive political commentary In the last DLC the antagonist is a wordy bastard who won't shut up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 13:55
|
|
|
Isn't politics something you do?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 14:22
|
|
|
Casey Finnigan posted:What is this thing with people talking like New Vegas is supposed to be politically impactful or philosophically relevant or something? People liked it cause it had better quests, locations, companions, and dlc than fallout 3 not because it had incisive political commentary Some people enjoyed the political commentary in addition to those things you mentioned. The factions of FNV felt more lived-in, like they actually had cause-and-effects from each other and the Mojave environments. The NCR most closely resembles modern democracy, but they're falling prey to the same problems of the old world - expansionist tendencies and capitalists (caravan companies) becoming more powerful. Or Caesar's Legion, a slave army led by an "too smart" fascist, but the authoritarian lifestyle actually leads to a better living standards for its people. There are interesting layers to the groups. Like many horror movies, insightful commentary can be found once you look for it. Compare that to FO4 where the factions are a bit more surface level. The Minutemen guard the Commonwealth; any other aspects of their identity I forget. Or Starfield, where the only faction I remember anything about is the snake worshippers, and they're hardly featured.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 18:16
|
|
|
BlueGrot posted:New Vegas? In hindsight it's like a freshman class of philosophy wearing an Elvis costume. A drastic different from Fallout 1 and 2.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 08:37 |
|
|
DarkLich posted:The factions of FNV felt more lived-in, like they actually had cause-and-effects from each other and the Mojave environments. The NCR most closely resembles modern democracy, but they're falling prey to the same problems of the old world - expansionist tendencies and capitalists (caravan companies) becoming more powerful. Or Caesar's Legion, a slave army led by an "too smart" fascist, but the authoritarian lifestyle actually leads to a better living standards for its people. There are interesting layers to the groups. Like many horror movies, insightful commentary can be found once you look for it. *spits drink*
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 18:27
|
|
