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This is an honest question and I’m not trying to just take a steaming dump, but is the game actually salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk? Like there’s no way they’re suddenly going to figure out how to make the planets fun right
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Apr 24, 2024 02:58
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it would have done a lot if they had just made a shitload of interesting randomly placed content and made it so that you're no longer likely to see a repeated explorable point of interest after trekking around 2 or 3 planets. and maybe not made one of the few that exist about finding a letter written by a specific named dead individual in a specific named building that then shows up everywhere
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Apr 24, 2024 03:06
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If there was a dlc that just added enough dungeons to match FO4 or Skyrim, that might be enough to bring me in. I'd love if they scrapped the lovely spacesuit system and replaced with it something akin to FO4s power armour, hell with their base armour underneath. Few more weapons and expand the crafting system while they're at it. These are probably achievable, and while the new game wouldn't blow my nuts off, I'd probably spin it up now and then and wander around shooting space bandits.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:07
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Is there even a real modding scene for Starfield? The way some commentators made it sound the major modders just aren't interested and/or don't feel like dealing with this version of Creation Engine. With Fallout 4 enjoying a massive resurgence, thanks to the TV show, I have seen modders say they are putting focus there.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:21
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MechaSeinfeld posted:This is an honest question and I’m not trying to just take a steaming dump, but is the game actually salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk? Like there’s no way they’re suddenly going to figure out how to make the planets fun right
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Apr 24, 2024 03:25
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they haven't seemed to be trying
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Apr 24, 2024 03:50
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MH Knights posted:Is there even a real modding scene for Starfield? The way some commentators made it sound the major modders just aren't interested and/or don't feel like dealing with this version of Creation Engine. With Fallout 4 enjoying a massive resurgence, thanks to the TV show, I have seen modders say they are putting focus there. On nexusmods Starfield had 33 new mods this week. Fallout 4 had about 360, Skyrim SE had 500. To be fair Starfield doesn't have the creation kit released for it yet, but that's its own problem.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:50
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The "mods" are almost exclusively retextures/recolors though there are a few more in-depth ones from crazy folks. The StarUI mods are solid but they also haven't been touched since October
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Apr 24, 2024 03:52
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MechaSeinfeld posted:This is an honest question and I’m not trying to just take a steaming dump, but is the game actually salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk? Like there’s no way they’re suddenly going to figure out how to make the planets fun right no it isn't. Leave. Tiny Timbs posted:The "mods" are almost exclusively retextures/recolors though there are a few more in-depth ones from crazy folks. The StarUI mods are solid but they also haven't been touched since October Most of those fallout 4/skyrim mods are also retextures and recolors. The running joke on fallout 4 for a while was "all the cool mods are on NV, all we get is bodyslides, CBBE presets and COD guns." Skyrim just has a dozen different booba mods betwixt one cool new framework of modders resource released per month. Tankbuster fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 04:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:I doubt it. It just seems like with the way the current game is they aren't going to be able to turn things around, but who knows. It really depends how much BGS is interested in working on fixes or not. I haven’t been keeping up so the only thing I’ve heard post-release is that they couldn’t make the game fun for a decade and there’s a title for the dlc but not what’s in it. Wonder if they just crunched the numbers and figured that it’s not worth spending more time on after that and instead moving to Elden Scrolls.
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Apr 24, 2024 04:03
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Bethesda should disown starfield Gaslight people and say obsidian made it, actually
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Apr 24, 2024 04:10
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moist turtleneck posted:Gaslight people and say obsidian made it, actually Well, I sure hope Obsidian don't make another space game after that Starfield debacle. 
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Apr 24, 2024 04:13
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MechaSeinfeld posted:This is an honest question and I’m not trying to just take a steaming dump, but is the game actually salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk? Like there’s no way they’re suddenly going to figure out how to make the planets fun right Devil's Advocate: Sure, but it would have to be a self contained campaign that functionally replaces the big, empty lovely game with a small but curated and somehow compelling game. Like everything takes place on a new space station map that has its own branching campaign that can also change between universes.
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Apr 24, 2024 05:30
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Father Wendigo posted:Devil's Advocate: Sure, but it would have to be a self contained campaign that functionally replaces the big, empty lovely game with a small but curated and somehow compelling game. Like everything takes place on a new space station map that has its own branching campaign that can also change between universes. Even then it wouldn't "save" starfield as a game any more than far harbor "saved" FO4's writing, it'd just be a digression into better content for a couple hours before returning to the base game and being depressed about the wasted potential that's also asking for A Lot out of DLC, "a better quality of side story/quest" is a lot less time-consuming to do retroactively than "oops poo poo we need to try to fix all the game mechanics to be not poo poo"
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Apr 24, 2024 05:51
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MH Knights posted:Is there even a real modding scene for Starfield? The way some commentators made it sound the major modders just aren't interested and/or don't feel like dealing with this version of Creation Engine. With Fallout 4 enjoying a massive resurgence, thanks to the TV show, I have seen modders say they are putting focus there. Modding without the CK might as well be considered masochism, we can see variables that exist but barely understand what some of them do so it comes down to how willing you are banging your head against that wall figuring it out. The CK should have been out months ago and Bethesda is dropping the ball hard. I'm curious where you're seeing people commentate on the game though, I would have figured any streamer interest would have fizzled out months ago as well.
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Apr 24, 2024 05:57
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the commentary about the game being dead to modders also came out months ago. Nearly all of them based off that one guy who made Skyrim together.
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Apr 24, 2024 06:54
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Having made my own mods / modified existing mods for compatibility and tweaks for both Skyrim and FO4, I just...don't see the CK saving it. There's a lot of deep flaws in the game that no amount of modding is going to be able to resolve, and putting more and more coats of paint over the rotting wood doesn't solve it.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:02
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Vasudus posted:Having made my own mods / modified existing mods for compatibility and tweaks for both Skyrim and FO4, I just...don't see the CK saving it. There's a lot of deep flaws in the game that no amount of modding is going to be able to resolve, and putting more and more coats of paint over the rotting wood doesn't solve it.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:12
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Vasudus posted:Having made my own mods / modified existing mods for compatibility and tweaks for both Skyrim and FO4, I just...don't see the CK saving it. There's a lot of deep flaws in the game that no amount of modding is going to be able to resolve, and putting more and more coats of paint over the rotting wood doesn't solve it. And it would require enthusiasm, which seems lacking at the moment. As a whole, I don't see what the CK will accomplish, except reveal all the hacks they did to the existing systems which could be interesting to see. Maybe, probably, someone crazy enough will create something worth while, it just likely has to ignore large swaths of the base game.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:29
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Barren planets themselves wouldn't be too problematic if they would be useful as resource nodes, for example. This would, however, require that the outpost system was more robust and would feed into the rest of the game in some semi-meaningful way.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:31
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Even then it wouldn't "save" starfield as a game any more than far harbor "saved" FO4's writing, it'd just be a digression into better content for a couple hours before returning to the base game and being depressed about the wasted potential I mean that just goes to what do people mean by "saved". If Bethesda put out a Far Harbor quality DLC -which isn't impossible, I'm not holding my breath, but in the past they have managed at least one really good piece of DLC per game- than sure it might be tacted on but it would still be some fun to have in the game, and as it's on gamepass than you know Starfield might go from recommending not to play, to yeah if you have gamepass yeah maybe spend a weekend going through that good DLC bit or whatever. So sure it wouldn't make the rest of the game better but it still would be fun in the game world. To actually make the rest of the game better would require No man sky'esq years of updates, and major fundemental changes to the outpost/exploration mechanics and content.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:46
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Tankbuster posted:the commentary about the game being dead to modders also came out months ago. Nearly all of them based off that one guy who made Skyrim together. which is kind of funny because it wasn't even explicitly because of modding issues or lack of CK support, just straight up "I don't want to waste my time modding a game I hate"  dr_rat posted:I mean that just goes to what do people mean by "saved". If Bethesda put out a Far Harbor quality DLC -which isn't impossible, I'm not holding my breath, but in the past they have managed at least one really good piece of DLC per game- than sure it might be tacted on but it would still be some fun to have in the game, and as it's on gamepass than you know Starfield might go from recommending not to play, to yeah if you have gamepass yeah maybe spend a weekend going through that good DLC bit or whatever. I mean the specific original context was "salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk", so that's the "what people mean by saved" here and since most of cyberpunk's issues were "the game wasn't actually finished when it launched", not "the developers didn't have a coherent vision of how to even make the game they were making", it's probably very safe to say "yeah that's not happening" even a no man's sky turnaround isn't really even conceptually in the cards since, again, the underlying issue of NMS wasn't with the developmental vision of what they were going for, it was an overhyping/overmarketing thing where they eventually ended up in a combined state of "delivering what was originally promised/implied" and "everyone who didn't know what NMS was going to be in 2016 certainly knew what it actually was by 2020" now all of that said, it's not literally impossible for "the game called Starfield" to be "fixed", but it'd require such a fundamental overhaul of product vision that from nearly all perspectives they're probably better off throwing in the towel on it after the first DLC and refocusing on polishing Elder Scroll 6 to a mirror sheen instead of trying to salvage this nasapunk procgen mess e: and the CK taking this long to drop for starfield probably means either they've done just that, OR they've run into such fundamental issues with it in Starfield that they can't even get it working yet, OR they're explicitly holding off on dropping the CK because they're trying to get their ducks in a row for better monetization of the CK in Starfield because they think that Starfield is Such A Hot Property that it's worth spending that extra time and effort on that up front my money's on one, personally, but I guess we'll see Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 08:42
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He also threw the same tantrum for Fallout 4 which is why I don't take it seriously.
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Apr 24, 2024 09:17
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Tankbuster posted:no it isn't. Leave. I reinstalled Fallout 4 this week because TV show and incoming patch, and even knowing what's in it the gameplay experience of leaving the Vault and walking out into a crafted world is just so fundamentally different to anything I experienced playing Starfield. You are absolutely right, the game isn't fixable, the best that could happen is that someone takes the technical work Bethesda have done and use it to craft an entirely new game.
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Apr 24, 2024 10:54
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MechaSeinfeld posted:This is an honest question and I’m not trying to just take a steaming dump, but is the game actually salvageable by dlc/update akin to cyberpunk? Like there’s no way they’re suddenly going to figure out how to make the planets fun right Honest answer? Modders will mod a game to tweak stuff, or add stuff to a core of decent, but lacking certain things in their eyes, features. A lot of it is based on popularity and goodwill, if a lot of people will benefit from something, people make the effort. Bethesda released slop, made working with it difficult and have gone silent on releasing modding tools they said were coming "at the start of this year". Why am I talking about modders and not DLC? because its the modders who add years to a games life,as opposedto a month or two blip a dlc adds, (dlc's also add more things to mod, and means of modding, but again, at its core, the game is slop). for bethesda, they dont care, they tried monetising modding and it did not work out, they already sold the game and have had half a year of people telling them their game is poo poo. their attitude is basically the opposite of No Mans Sky; "it was a commercial success, we are very happy"
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Apr 24, 2024 11:17
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dr_rat posted:I mean that just goes to what do people mean by "saved". If Bethesda put out a Far Harbor quality DLC -which isn't impossible, I'm not holding my breath, but in the past they have managed at least one really good piece of DLC per game- than sure it might be tacted on but it would still be some fun to have in the game, and as it's on gamepass than you know Starfield might go from recommending not to play, to yeah if you have gamepass yeah maybe spend a weekend going through that good DLC bit or whatever. This hope's already dead. Gamepass makes you buy DLC you want to play. They aren't included in the subscription.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:17
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:and since most of cyberpunk's issues were "the game wasn't actually finished when it launched", not "the developers didn't have a coherent vision of how to even make the game they were making", it's probably very safe to say "yeah that's not happening" Yeah, 100% agreed with this: Starfield is not a "salvage by polishing or bug fixing" game. It needs a fundamental overhaul of basically everything in the game, and I seriously doubt there's the will/inclination to do that. And would anyone actually be interested in it? There was enough good stuff in Cyberpunk (and residual goodwill for CDPR) for people to have faith that it was fixable. Whereas Bethesda is kinda controversial at best these days?
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Apr 24, 2024 12:55
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I could be wrong but I don't think modders generally mod games they don't play. And not very many people are playing Starfield. The reality will probably be less mods instead of no mods, but it's going to be a problem for Starfield.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:05
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Doesn't help that the most active modding going on rn is "star wars stuff in game."
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Apr 24, 2024 13:18
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The one, tiny, sliver of hope I have for Starfield is that once the CK comes out some mad scientist of a modder makes a TC over the next few years that basically uses the engine to create a more interesting, better game. If nothing else properly supported (as in having CK) Gamebryo is a pretty decent platform for that kind of enthusiast game making and there have been some really impressive projects in other Beth titles over the years. Someone understanding from the start what the limitations of Starfield as a platform are could work around them in interesting ways - e.g. creating more interesting space maps linked by a system of exit points (jump nodes or whatever) requiring some traversal. If nothing else it's the most recent version of Gamebryo and it does have some little add ons like the ship stuff. That said, I'm not expecting that. I'd be extremely surprised, bordering on shocked, if that happened. I'd love it, though, because then it would give me something to justify owning this turd.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:21
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Twilek cheek clapping it is.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:26
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Tankbuster posted:Doesn't help that the most active modding going on rn is "star wars stuff in game." But why, there's already so, so, so many star wars games! When will there be enough star wars for people!!!!
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Apr 24, 2024 13:31
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webmeister posted:Yeah, 100% agreed with this: Starfield is not a "salvage by polishing or bug fixing" game. It needs a fundamental overhaul of basically everything in the game, and I seriously doubt there's the will/inclination to do that. And would anyone actually be interested in it? There was enough good stuff in Cyberpunk (and residual goodwill for CDPR) for people to have faith that it was fixable. FO76 was by all accounts a dumpster fire at launch and Bethesda managed to turn it around to the point where it has more active players than Starfield (prior to the Fallout show revitalizing Fallout numbers in general even). Starfield getting a makeover to become a decent game isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it'll definitely take way too long to happen and the game will forever have that initial impression attached. I expect there will always be some modders interested in Starfield because it's a space setting with all the basic components. There's a lot of ideas that you could drop into Starfield relatively seamlessly that doesn't quite fit the fantasy of Elder Scrolls or the post-apocalypse of Fallout.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:33
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Economics of fixing MMOs are different than of single player games, though. (FF14 being the big example there).
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Apr 24, 2024 13:38
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isndl posted:FO76 was by all accounts a dumpster fire at launch and Bethesda managed to turn it around to the point where it has more active players than Starfield (prior to the Fallout show revitalizing Fallout numbers in general even). Starfield getting a makeover to become a decent game isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it'll definitely take way too long to happen and the game will forever have that initial impression attached. IIRC the biggest issue with FO76 at the time was the lack of NPCs. I initially played it before the Wastelanders update and every quest had you running between terminals and dead bodies to pick up notes that would lead you to the next terminal or dead body, or talk at you about the plot. The world was very, very dead, you always felt like you were arriving just after a big event happened but could never actually participate. After Wastelanders, it more closely resembles a normal Fallout game. The fundamentals are still the same - you're collecting stuff to craft into slightly less crappy stuff, but FO76's issues were always something that could be fixed because the base of previous Fallouts was still there. Starfield has far deeper flaws that would require basically a rework of the entire game, and I doubt Bethesda (or modders) are going to do it.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:49
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For Bethesda to have any hope the TESVI office needs to have a whiteboard with the words NO LOADING SCREENS written on it. Starfield wasn't just a one game failure, it really revealed that creatively they've gone a bit stale and the next game needs to really convincingly show that they are going to step up a notch.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:51
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Alchenar posted:For Bethesda to have any hope the TESVI office needs to have a whiteboard with the words NO LOADING SCREENS written on it. The loading screens are an engine limitation. My understanding is that you're not going to get seamless traversal across the entire world like you can in most other open world RPGs just due to how streaming assets works in Gamebryo, which is to say it doesn't.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:00
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starfield's biggest problem is that that there isn't a fun handcrafted world you can go traipsing around in.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:03
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I've been one of the biggest Starfield fans/apologists in this thread, having played ten NG+ to try out all of the variants and RP different playstyles/faction choices in each. But I'm finished with the game and I can't believe they haven't released DLC and the CK yet. A complete bag fumble. So much wasted potential and bad design choices, and yet I gave the game 90 hours. I started my first Skyrim playthrough in 6 or 8 years and wow I forgot how great that game is.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:04
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Tankbuster posted:starfield's biggest problem is that that there isn't a fun handcrafted world you can go traipsing around in. Yeah, all the engine stuff is annoying but people still play Skryim FO4 and NV and loving Morrowind etc. If there's a solid game there people will play it and just kind of laugh about the bethesda jank while they have a good time. But, on the other side of that coin, if you don't have an engaging world for people to latch onto then they're absolutely going to point out the technical debt that you're also operating with.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:06
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