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I'm all for people paying off their school debt. College is pricey and has been for a while... Hate me if you want to, but at the end of the day, this $10k is paid out of the taxpayer's pocket. I pay taxes. How about me not having to pay someone else's school debt? Our current president made that decision for me, screw him for that. I really feel like that the adults should take responsibility for the things they do in life, including taking out massive loans...
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Aug 27, 2022 11:42
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 22:19 |
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Framboise posted:We spend around 800 billion dollars a year on the military, which is more than the next top 9 nations in military spending in the world, combined. I don't want my money going to that and nor do I think we should be blowing all of our money on new toys for warlords to murder people with. I think the rich coprs who got bailed out should have taken responsibility instead. You don't need to construct the notion I was somehow in support of that. There are many things in the budget that I, as a registered voter, am not happy with. And I vote accordingly and suggest everyone does so as well. It certainly does not mean that I drew the line at the school loan bailouts and somehow ok with a hunded of other dumb things we pay for. Higher education is not a constitutional right. People may choose to make this investment in themselves by hiring the services of an educational institution. This is an individual financial decision everyone makes for themselves. Sometimes the investment pays off, other times it does not. Why should I have to pay for someone's investment in a "BS in Left-Handed Puppetry" that comes with $100k debt and does not nearly produce enough income? Eveyone should be able to study where ever and whatever they want, just don't ask for the bailouts if it doesn't pan out. There are plenty of legitimate options already on the table to get a degree paid for by a 3rd party in a way that most people support. Here's just a few: - Merit scholarships tied to academic achievments - Sports scholarships for athletes - Military Institutions of Higher Learning - Military service and GI Bill afterwards - STEM scholarships for those willing to work hard getting their education - Tution assistance by coprorate emploeyers for their Regular Full-Time Employees Lastly, not going to college at all and instead picking up a skilled trade is a very sound financial decision. Many Electricians, HVAC people, Plumbers etc. are making $100k+ year after only a few years in the trade. Granted this isn't for everyone, but those physically able and willing to overlook the stigma attached to it, there are great financial rewards to be had.
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Aug 28, 2022 00:11
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Kalit posted:We all pay for things we don’t want. For an example of “my” tax money, I don’t want to subsidize religion by giving them a bunch of tax breaks. I agree, federal gov't needs to stay out of subsidizing religion as well. And I would argue that any government "for the people and by the people" actually should cater to and align with the collective personal values of the people who created it. I don't like the student loan debt bubble either, but I disagree that this is the way to resolve it. Sure, if I was the only one who felt the taxpayer is getting shafted here, who cares then, right? I assure you, this couldn't be further from the truth and we will make our voice heard in November.
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Aug 28, 2022 00:31
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BonoMan posted:It's not just a bubble. It's an entire predatory system designed to keep people in financial servitude. Often unable to ever get out of repayment for decades. And they do it by preying on young kids who shouldn't be allowed to make such decisions that will set a nearly immovable course for their life. 1. Higher education is not a right. Nor is it a basic human requirement for survival like food, water, and shelter. Plenty of successful people never spent a single day in a college classroom and have done quite well for themselves. Moreover, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head demanding they go to college and sign on the dotted line. College education is 100% optional. If young kids are not capable of recognizing the financial peril they're getting themselves into, then perhaps a financial literacy and/or an age requirement may need to be implemented in order to take out over a certain amount of school debt. If something is too expensive, then the very first logical instinct should be not to buy it. 2. I and any other law-abiding citizen like myself make our voices heard at the ballot box. We vote for the candidate whose views are more aligned with our own. Perfect candidates do not exist and a lot of times it feels like choosing a lesser evil. So, it's a tradeoff analysis that everyone does for themselves. 3. I understand you are willing to double down on the loan forgiveness notion and decided to go even further by wanting to forgive all of it, not just the $10k. I hope you also understand that there is no such thing as "free college". There is no "free" service of any kind for that matter. Just because the student isn't the one paying, it does not mean said service is free. Tell me who you would like to pay for it instead, how they benefit from it, and why it should be their legal responsibility. Then we can have a discussion. Otherwise, it's just a socialist utopia not rooted in realism. 4. Destructive predatory systems are not aligned with my personal values. Likewise, I do not support payday loans and car title loans which usually come with incredibly high-interest rates and primarily affect people of lower socioeconomic status. Making the poor even poorer instead essentially. To which extent do these types of organizations need to be controlled, I'd leave that up to the qualified legal experts, as I'm afraid any solution I'd propose would be too radical and violate other people's rights. 5. Correlation does not mean causation. Likewise, correlation does not exclude causation either. With this out of the way, I do find it peculiar that college tuition began to skyrocket after school loans became widely and easily available. Tuition's growth rate outpaced any other commonly used service over the past 30+ years. Like it or not, at the end of the day colleges are a business driven by profit. If the customer all of a sudden gains access to more funding, why wouldn't they increase the price? There's an argument to be made that the reason why college tuition became so expensive to begin with is because of the easily available loan money. There is plenty of studies on this topic available one google search away if this interests you more.
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Aug 28, 2022 01:56
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Kalit posted:While you might not be the only person with this point of view, you absolutely are in the minority with your opinion. In case you're unaware about this poll in June, 55% of all adults support 10k in loan forgiveness. Not true. Every voter's voice is heard in the election even if you don't agree with them and regardless of the election's outcome. Also, as recent years have shown, the poll data are far from a sure way of predicting which way the pendulum will swing this time. I could give very specific examples, but it will then probably turn this thread into a different discussion. So let's stay on topic instead.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:04
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BonoMan posted:Thanks for your InternetArgument101 nonsense of “you do realize it’s not free right?” Yeah no poo poo. Our taxes pay for it. And I’m ok with that because I’m not a selfish shithead. I want my taxes to pay for services and policies that will be a tide that raises all boats. I stated my opinion, I do not like socialism and things that resemble it. Forgiving school debt reeks of socialism to me. You are free to have any opinion you like even if I don't agree with it. I had no intention of starting a fight, but your language is clearly becoming hostile for no good reason. This is the point where I disengage. Have a nice day!
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Aug 28, 2022 02:33
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 22:19 |
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Epic High Five posted:Debt forgiveness and debt jubilees are as old as the concept of debt itself, and are in many cases religiously proscribed. All of these things predate capitalism AND socialism by thousands or tens of thousands of years. This is America, your right to your opinion is about the only one you've really got, but your qualms here are with something greater than the predominant economic modes of the last few centuries. Fair enough. Besides, I'm done debating this topic anyway. I've stated my opinion and I have nothing else to add.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:55
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