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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
And another OTJ Premier

https://www.17lands.com/draft/c05e1abdae22421a8765c7d8ff9e704f

Got a few Green goodies, wasn't really super open, but enough to remain in it. Black, however? Flowed like crazy. I didn't really get any self-mill going - there always was something a little better to pick - but also I had a bunch more crime payoffs, so I just took every Desert I could get my hands on. Thus:



I feel like this could have gone a bunch of ways. If someone wants to take a look at the draft and tell me "I would really not have", would be happy to hear.

Note: I took Tinybones because I couldn't quite decide and thought it would be fun to try it (also, hell, he's mythic). There's definitely better picks.

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Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Chamale posted:

I still don't understand OTJ drafts at all. Here's my latest draft, which went 1-3. What did I do wrong, what should I have been trying to do?

https://www.17lands.com/draft/9619a311e19a4722ae034da4a2b221dc

Trash the Town is an instant

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Simply Simon posted:

Overall, you decided to be a certain deck way too early instead of staying open and also individual card evaluations were often wrong. Especially the former is not really a format question. Stay open!

Thanks for the advice. I went into my next draft trying to stay open, then it turned out blue was incredibly open, and I got an easy 7-0. I ended up in UB, but I probably could have played UR or UW and done equally well. I considered splashing Gitrog, but my cards were so good that I figured my best chance at winning was to have consistent mana. There were some interesting choices in pack 3 between taking good spells or more crime lands.

https://www.17lands.com/draft/cb66377291384c609686fd2910891306

Lone Goat posted:

Trash the Town is an instant

Wow. I haven't been using it as a combat trick, because normally something with that many effects is a sorcery.

wei
Jul 27, 2006

Simply Simon posted:

And another OTJ Premier

https://www.17lands.com/draft/c05e1abdae22421a8765c7d8ff9e704f

Got a few Green goodies, wasn't really super open, but enough to remain in it. Black, however? Flowed like crazy. I didn't really get any self-mill going - there always was something a little better to pick - but also I had a bunch more crime payoffs, so I just took every Desert I could get my hands on. Thus:



I feel like this could have gone a bunch of ways. If someone wants to take a look at the draft and tell me "I would really not have", would be happy to hear.

Note: I took Tinybones because I couldn't quite decide and thought it would be fun to try it (also, hell, he's mythic). There's definitely better picks.

P1P9 Ankle biter is very medium, Tyrant's Scorn is efficient interaction I've loved splashing
P1P11 I don't like Decisive Denial much, it's probably fine but I like just getting more deserts
P2P1 Not shaping up to be a deck that wants Possum, I would have taken Mourner's Surprise
P2P2 I would take a 2nd Hollow Marauder over Tinybones yeah
P2P11 Jailbreak Scheme has a better chance of making the deck

Both the draft and deck seem disjointed to me. I would have leaned more into a grindy deck with good interaction and crimes, picking up Intimidation Campaign in P1P2 and Bandit's Haul P1P5.

The Ravens are out of place, I like them more in aggressive decks or decks that do more chip damage.

In your defense there's probably not many paths that give you a more coherent deck, there weren't many decisions or pivot points in the later picks. I'm just higher on the crimes/value based stuff now that the more aggressive or creature-based Gx stuff should be contested.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



What's good in explorer right now? I wasn't looking for a sec and my greasefang deck got "soft rotated".

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

ꜱʜʀɪᴍᴘ?
Is Selesnya/Bant toxic a viable deck in standard? I want to dip my toe back into standard and I happen to have most of the pieces I think I'd need for that.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-
Another OTJ draft where I ended up GW. Any thoughts on the last cuts? My feeling is for the three on the right, although I'm a bit unsure cutting even a middling mount when I have so few here.



e: Maybe cut Patient Naturalist over the Bighorn?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
Yeah it still works, think it might e gotten a new toy even? Seen it a few times last couple days

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


A Moose posted:

What's good in explorer right now? I wasn't looking for a sec and my greasefang deck got "soft rotated".
I know more about pioneer than explorer but Phoenix and Vampires are current top decks, right below them are Lotus combo (not on explorer) and Amalia. Mono black waste not has been much more popular recently and so has a G/R deck that is like between prowess and tempo with the new card slickshot show-off.

I also wanted to talk about this deck, there are a few picks in particular, but I still think good deck.
P1P2: I am going to pick Betrayal at the Vault over Snakeskin veil. I think Betrayal sends a stronger signal to other people in the pod that green is open, you say that green wasn't flowing, I think this might be part of the reason. Snakeskin is a common, you are way more likely to see another than Betrayal as well. Also the crime trigger with you Freestride lookout is great.
P1P5: I love picking up lands, but in this scenario I actually am picking Naturalist. It finds a land or makes a treasure so it is pseudo fixing, and it fills up the graveyard which B/G loves. It works with hollow marauder.
P1P9: I am probably picking sentry over ankle biter. Slightly higher win rate, it still blocks early, but can help close out a game late too. I might even pick Tyrant's scorn over either. It is a really solid card, and you already have one land to splash with.
P2P2: Yeah marauder is stronger (especially if you had naturalist) but can't really blame you. Tinybones is a fun card.
P2P5: Naturalist is so good, getting it here over the bandit. On 17lands for BG it is almost 2% higher win rate which is a lot for a common. (60% vs 58.1%)
P3P1: Not a great pack but are you ever playing Lasso? I am picking Sentry or Conduit Pylon. What I said about Sentry early applies, and Pylon fills up graveyard for BG.
P3P5: It is really close but I think I am grabbing Consuming Ashes over Unfortunate Accident. You don't really have any token/outlaw synergy, but you do have surveil synergy. Also exile is amazing.

I love picking up lands when nothing better is in it. It lets you spec on opening bombs, or just able to splash freely in this format.

wei
Jul 27, 2006

A Moose posted:

What's good in explorer right now? I wasn't looking for a sec and my greasefang deck got "soft rotated".

Phoenix? idk how important Temporal Trespass it but it seems like the best deck in the format and is rewarding if you can pilot it well.

Somberbrero posted:

Is Selesnya/Bant toxic a viable deck in standard? I want to dip my toe back into standard and I happen to have most of the pieces I think I'd need for that.

Yes, it's mostly meta dependent. Convoke is quite a bad matchup for it but it preys on decks like Domain.

big scary monsters posted:

Another OTJ draft where I ended up GW. Any thoughts on the last cuts? My feeling is for the three on the right, although I'm a bit unsure cutting even a middling mount when I have so few here.



e: Maybe cut Patient Naturalist over the Bighorn?

Naturalist Sheriff and Keykeeper. I would like Naturalist more if you had anything that used the graveyard.

I would consider playing Bristlepack Sentry over Bighorn to lower the curve, shouldn't be too hard to get something to 4 power in this deck.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012
Fun interaction: You can pay for the collect evidence ward on axebane ferox to bounce it with colossal skyturtle, with the colossal skyturtle you're sticking in the graveyard.

I mean, i still lost the game, but the "i wonder if this works how I want it to - oh hey, it does!" was still cool

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-

wei posted:

Naturalist Sheriff and Keykeeper. I would like Naturalist more if you had anything that used the graveyard.

I would consider playing Bristlepack Sentry over Bighorn to lower the curve, shouldn't be too hard to get something to 4 power in this deck.
:tipshat:

I'm still figuring out this draft format (just about a positive record over 5 drafts so far but definitely gem-negative) so it's nice to have a little confirmation that I'm on the right lines. Probably a good call on the Sentry, I'll give it a try like that.

e: lol I got immediately owned G1 by Archangel of the Tithes. Not much you can do sometimes.

big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 23, 2024

Mr_Companie
Jul 4, 2003

ARE YOU INTERESTED IN AN EXCITING BUISNESS OPPROTUNITY?
I had a busy couple of months and didnt play much ladder during MKM, mostly screwing around in play mode with vampire decks. Previewing the new deck, I saw something in red and thought, why not take the advantage and run with it? This is the strongest mono red's been since Wilds of Eldraine, maybe stronger. I took this deck from Gold to Mythic in a little under a week so I'm sure you guys could too.

Plot has ridiculous synergy with the prowess creatures in this deck. The idea here is to set up the kill shot and take it. Slickshot is probably too good - there are multiple lines of play that deal 15+ damage on turn three or 20 damage on turn four, so use the bird while you can. Special thanks to Twinferno, Demonic Ruckus, and Invasion of Regatha for providing the knockout punch before I had the chance to see a lot of the new cards in action.

Honorable mention to Chandra, Dressed to Kill which replaced two copies of Case of the Crimson Pulse, providing some extra casting triggers and a smoother ride through the mid game once I hit high diamond.




Here's the deck - I only played two bo3 games to close out diamond so most of those pics were strictly counter picks for Boros aggro and Esper so it may have looked a little different had I played more bo3 games.

quote:

Deck
4 Slickshot Show-Off (OTJ) 146
20 Mountain (OTJ) 284
2 Squee, Dubious Monarch (DMU) 146
2 Demonic Ruckus (OTJ) 120
4 Monastery Swiftspear (KTK) 118
2 Fugitive Codebreaker (MKM) 127
3 Monstrous Rage (WOE) 142
4 Bloodthirsty Adversary (MID) 129
2 Nahiri's Warcrafting (MOM) 155
4 Kumano Faces Kakkazan (NEO) 152
4 Lightning Strike (JMP) 152
2 Chandra, Dressed to Kill (VOW) 149
3 Twinferno (DMU) 149
2 Invasion of Regatha (MOM) 148
2 Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance (NEO) 276

Sideboard
1 End the Festivities (VOW) 155
1 Great Train Heist (OTJ) 125
3 End the Festivities (VOW) 155
3 Brotherhood's End (BRO) 128
1 Great Train Heist (OTJ) 125
3 Lithomantic Barrage (MOM) 152
2 Voldaren Thrillseeker (MOM) 171
1 Jaya, Fiery Negotiator (DMU) 133

Mr_Companie fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Apr 23, 2024

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
I tried the abuelo combo and lol, just feels like cheating. Guess I don't play a lot of combo decks but the setup was basically discard until I have mana and a way to cast the thing.

I wanted to try and make a new deck but don't have enough new cards to do it so I just made a monowhite homebrew with michiko and Empress as wincons. The rest were enchantments to imprison/exile/lock. Didn't feel like figuring out which were best so did a little of a bunch of random ones. Won first 2 games with it, basically just a half-rear end control deck but a little more fun with everyone hanging out on board and having a get out of jail option.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!

Somberbrero posted:

Is Selesnya/Bant toxic a viable deck in standard? I want to dip my toe back into standard and I happen to have most of the pieces I think I'd need for that.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I feel like Selesnya vs. Golgari Toxic is a question of security versus speed; black has more force multipliers and toxic sources by itself, but white's got ways to ensure your toxic sources just keep going. And of course All Will be One's whites are just real good in general.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 23, 2024

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
Anything's possible with the guy who spreads toxic when your stuff's targeted.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Chamale posted:

Thanks for the advice. I went into my next draft trying to stay open, then it turned out blue was incredibly open, and I got an easy 7-0. I ended up in UB, but I probably could have played UR or UW and done equally well. I considered splashing Gitrog, but my cards were so good that I figured my best chance at winning was to have consistent mana. There were some interesting choices in pack 3 between taking good spells or more crime lands.
That's awesome, congrats!

Thanks both of you for the analysis:

wei posted:

P1P9 Ankle biter is very medium, Tyrant's Scorn is efficient interaction I've loved splashing
P1P11 I don't like Decisive Denial much, it's probably fine but I like just getting more deserts
P2P1 Not shaping up to be a deck that wants Possum, I would have taken Mourner's Surprise
P2P2 I would take a 2nd Hollow Marauder over Tinybones yeah
P2P11 Jailbreak Scheme has a better chance of making the deck

Both the draft and deck seem disjointed to me. I would have leaned more into a grindy deck with good interaction and crimes, picking up Intimidation Campaign in P1P2 and Bandit's Haul P1P5.

The Ravens are out of place, I like them more in aggressive decks or decks that do more chip damage.

In your defense there's probably not many paths that give you a more coherent deck, there weren't many decisions or pivot points in the later picks. I'm just higher on the crimes/value based stuff now that the more aggressive or creature-based Gx stuff should be contested.

Fritzler posted:

I also wanted to talk about this deck, there are a few picks in particular, but I still think good deck.
P1P2: I am going to pick Betrayal at the Vault over Snakeskin veil. I think Betrayal sends a stronger signal to other people in the pod that green is open, you say that green wasn't flowing, I think this might be part of the reason. Snakeskin is a common, you are way more likely to see another than Betrayal as well. Also the crime trigger with you Freestride lookout is great.
P1P5: I love picking up lands, but in this scenario I actually am picking Naturalist. It finds a land or makes a treasure so it is pseudo fixing, and it fills up the graveyard which B/G loves. It works with hollow marauder.
P1P9: I am probably picking sentry over ankle biter. Slightly higher win rate, it still blocks early, but can help close out a game late too. I might even pick Tyrant's scorn over either. It is a really solid card, and you already have one land to splash with.
P2P2: Yeah marauder is stronger (especially if you had naturalist) but can't really blame you. Tinybones is a fun card.
P2P5: Naturalist is so good, getting it here over the bandit. On 17lands for BG it is almost 2% higher win rate which is a lot for a common. (60% vs 58.1%)
P3P1: Not a great pack but are you ever playing Lasso? I am picking Sentry or Conduit Pylon. What I said about Sentry early applies, and Pylon fills up graveyard for BG.
P3P5: It is really close but I think I am grabbing Consuming Ashes over Unfortunate Accident. You don't really have any token/outlaw synergy, but you do have surveil synergy. Also exile is amazing.

I love picking up lands when nothing better is in it. It lets you spec on opening bombs, or just able to splash freely in this format.
P1P2: I was heavily considering it. However, I really, really like Veil and it will always be amazing, but Betrayal needs more setup and you can lose HARD with it. I don't think the signal argument is enough of an edge, especially considering how deep G is. There's always going to be other people in G no matter what I pick here. Crime is a point, though, I didn't consider that.
P1P5: I was debating here as well. I almost took the Naturalist, I like it a lot, but I didn't want to pigeonhole myself into doing the graveyard thing too early, whereas the Desert I'm pretty much always playing, if just to splash stuff (either of my good cards so far).
P1P9: Yeah I saw the snake doesn't have great stats - I generally do like it if I get enough Bite spells, and it helps in G mirrors, but it doesn't do much by itself. I can understand why it underperforms. I did compare the Sentry's winrates with it and debated picking it, but figured the Ankle Biter might fit better into a GY deck (because it will always trade and be a body in the yard). Scorn is interesting, I didn't consider that at all - both because I didn't think it's good enough to splash but also because I wanted a creature

P2P1: I've seen the Surprise go super duper late so often that I'm not willing to pick it first - Possum doesn't really fit but it's a good rate card and a creature for the yard, also I wanted to not pass too much G
P2P2: Marauder was definitely the best candidate to take over Tinybones, I agree
P2P5: Yeah that one was tough. I figured I don't actually have that much GY stuff going, and I did pass on another Naturalist + Hollow Marauder, so that's probably not my plan - I'd rather play my good rate stuff earlier, more consistently, and splash around. Also, I'm leaning more and more into the Crimes thing with a bunch of Deserts and there the untapping of the Bandit is actually relevant. Had I taken the other two GY cards this would have been a no-brainer here
P2P11: valid point, yeah. I saw that R was p open and I had some free fixing lands, so I figured maybe I want to expand its role (e.g. if I open a Calamity) and I was hedging on that. I didn't see U as any option, but it's true, what if I open Bonny Pall instead? Much more likely to splash for that than for a R bomb and a 2drop.

P3P1: I am playing Lasso. I forgot that Pylon can fill the GY, I was once again mentally off the GY plan but I'll have to put more value on that. Otoh I already had a Pylon, I'm never ever playing 2. Sentry perhaps better, yeah, but Lasso is so drat good and I was already picking up so many Deserts...
P3P5: Yeah also very close. Probably in the end the wrong choice, both need BB after all to do their thing.

A word on the Ravens: yeah they don't fit super well into any sort of GY plan, but the deck turned out to have a lot of Crime synergies (starting with the first pick), so I deliberately leaned into that. All my Deserts also draining seems sweet to me. Let's see how it goes!

SpiritOfLenin
Apr 29, 2013

be happy :3


Well I just had a rollercoaster of a draft experience. First I drafted the nastiest UR Ixalan quick draft I've ever managed to do, with the absolute highlight of it being Breeches attacking with two other pirates on turn 4 in my last game that was an easy 7-1 (and the only loss was to never drawing an island), followed up quickly by a clownshoes GRW Thunder Junction draft that went 0-3. The deck wasn't very good, but never drawing any of the removal or bombs didn't help. All the pack 1 pick options were just awful to mediocre and it felt like everyone was drafting like maniacs. I saw 4 copies of "Annie Joins Up" in the first 3 picks of pack 3 (two of which were in my p3p1) and none of them wheeled somehow. I think its because the packs just didn't have a lot of good stuff in them and everyone was just trying desperately to get something playable going on (which included me, there weren't really any good black or blue cards that I saw so couldn't pivot out of the few good cards I got in other colors). Unusually low amount of rares and mythics going around for OTJ.

SpiritOfLenin fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Apr 23, 2024

Retcon
Jun 23, 2010

Commander
1 Geralf, the Fleshwright (OTJ) 50

Deck
1 Compelling Deterrence (SIR) 55
28 Island (UND) 90
1 Lazotep Plating (WAR) 59
1 Poppet Stitcher (MID) 71
1 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
1 Hall of Storm Giants (AFR) 257
1 Otawara, Soaring City (NEO) 271
1 Sea Gate Restoration (ZNR) 76
1 Cavern of Souls (LCI) 269
1 Field of Ruin (THB) 242
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (THS) 223
1 Tyrite Sanctum (KHM) 272
1 Storm of Saruman (LTR) 72
1 Baral, Chief of Compliance (MUL) 73
1 Curious Homunculus (SIR) 58
1 As Foretold (WOT) 14
1 Case of the Ransacked Lab (MKM) 45
1 Haughty Djinn (DMU) 52
1 Mindsplice Apparatus (ONE) 63
1 Saiba Syphoner (Y22) 11
1 Baral's Expertise (KLR) 43
1 Discover the Formula (Y22) 15
1 The Magic Mirror (ELD) 51
1 Cloud Key (BRR) 12
1 Primal Amulet (XLN) 243
1 Brainstorm (STA) 13
1 Consider (MID) 44
1 Hard Evidence (MH2) 46
1 Opt (STA) 19
1 Shore Up (DMU) 64
1 Sleight of Hand (WOE) 67
1 Slip Out the Back (SNC) 62
1 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81
1 Wash Away (VOW) 87
1 A-Mentor's Guidance (STX) 46
1 Borne Upon a Wind (LTR) 44
1 Callous Dismissal (WAR) 44
1 Contentious Plan (WAR) 46
1 Counterspell (STA) 15
1 Cyclonic Rift (RTR) 35
1 Experimental Augury (ONE) 49
1 Into the Roil (ZNR) 62
1 Jace Reawakened (OTJ) 271
1 Impulse (DMU) 55
1 Ledger Shredder (SNC) 46
1 Mana Drain (OTP) 11
1 Memory Lapse (STA) 16
1 Negate (STA) 18
1 Snapcaster Mage (SIS) 23
1 Tale's End (M20) 77
1 Think Twice (ISD) 83
1 Archmage's Charm (MH1) 40
1 Oracle of the Alpha (Y23) 4
1 Quick Study (WOE) 65
1 Solve the Equation (STX) 54
1 Thirst for Discovery (VOW) 85
1 Behold the Multiverse (KHM) 46
1 Memory Deluge (MID) 62
1 Flow of Knowledge (BRO) 49
1 Lórien Revealed (LTR) 60
1 Time Warp (STA) 22
1 River's Rebuke (XLN) 71
1 Mox Amber (BRR) 35
1 Chromatic Star (BRR) 11
1 Arcane Signet (ELD) 331
1 Coldsteel Heart (CSP) 136
1 Mind Stone (WTH) 153
1 Plan the Heist (OTJ) 62
1 Mishra's Bauble (BRR) 34
1 Wayfarer's Bauble (CM2) 229
1 Lonely Sandbar (ONS) 320
1 Rise from the Tides (SIR) 88

New Geralf is my favorite brawl commander from the new set so far. Plays a bit like a Storm deck except that you don't win on the spot since you don't really generate enough zombies to insta win most of the time and there are very few ways to give your board haste in Mono U. Could play Crashing Drawbridge i guess.

I tried playing the actual storm card we have (Mind's Desire) but it was simply too bad.

Fritzler
Sep 5, 2007


Somberbrero posted:

Is Selesnya/Bant toxic a viable deck in standard? I want to dip my toe back into standard and I happen to have most of the pieces I think I'd need for that.
There is a standard pro tour this weekend. I would probably not craft/buy any singles until I see how the meta from that looks this weekend.

Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

Starting to play Arena a bit more again, only brawl so far though. Wanting to dip back into timeless; what's the meta like? Is it a format where homebrews can do well, or should I pick an already-established archetype? Not a tryhard grinder, usually I'm happy with getting to plat in a given season, which is more a function of time versus winrate since I know I can eventually fail upwards to plat if I get enough reps in.

My collection is decent enough I don't need any disclaimers on WC cost, I can work that out myself. Thanks in advance.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Mr_Companie posted:

I had a busy couple of months and didnt play much ladder during MKM, mostly screwing around in play mode with vampire decks. Previewing the new deck, I saw something in red and thought, why not take the advantage and run with it? This is the strongest mono red's been since Wilds of Eldraine, maybe stronger. I took this deck from Gold to Mythic in a little under a week so I'm sure you guys could too.

Plot has ridiculous synergy with the prowess creatures in this deck. The idea here is to set up the kill shot and take it. Slickshot is probably too good - there are multiple lines of play that deal 15+ damage on turn three or 20 damage on turn four, so use the bird while you can. Special thanks to Twinferno, Demonic Ruckus, and Invasion of Regatha for providing the knockout punch before I had the chance to see a lot of the new cards in action.

Honorable mention to Chandra, Dressed to Kill which replaced two copies of Case of the Crimson Pulse, providing some extra casting triggers and a smoother ride through the mid game once I hit high diamond.




Here's the deck - I only played two bo3 games to close out diamond so most of those pics were strictly counter picks for Boros aggro and Esper so it may have looked a little different had I played more bo3 games.

Been trying to climg using red deck wins too, gonna steal some of this.

wei
Jul 27, 2006

Simply Simon posted:

That's awesome, congrats!

Thanks both of you for the analysis:

P1P2: I was heavily considering it. However, I really, really like Veil and it will always be amazing, but Betrayal needs more setup and you can lose HARD with it. I don't think the signal argument is enough of an edge, especially considering how deep G is. There's always going to be other people in G no matter what I pick here. Crime is a point, though, I didn't consider that.

P1P9: Yeah I saw the snake doesn't have great stats - I generally do like it if I get enough Bite spells, and it helps in G mirrors, but it doesn't do much by itself. I can understand why it underperforms. I did compare the Sentry's winrates with it and debated picking it, but figured the Ankle Biter might fit better into a GY deck (because it will always trade and be a body in the yard). Scorn is interesting, I didn't consider that at all - both because I didn't think it's good enough to splash but also because I wanted a creature

Betrayal's just a middling uncommon, it wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of my pick order. Signals don't matter

On the Tyrant's Scorn point I think you should be more open to 'splashing' or just playing more colours. Synergies and mechanics bleed into other colours, imo the drafts should be guided by higher rarity payoffs/buildarounds and not a rigid colour pair. I like the Sultai wedge because it has good access to two of the main pillars of the format (recursion and crimes).


I experimented more earlier in the format but have comfortably settled in the Bx midrange decks this week, since Gx should be more heavily contested now. Maybe I shouldn't be encouraging goons to play more colours but it's a good set to learn how to do it.

A Moose
Oct 22, 2009



Judgy Fucker posted:

Starting to play Arena a bit more again, only brawl so far though. Wanting to dip back into timeless; what's the meta like? Is it a format where homebrews can do well, or should I pick an already-established archetype? Not a tryhard grinder, usually I'm happy with getting to plat in a given season, which is more a function of time versus winrate since I know I can eventually fail upwards to plat if I get enough reps in.

My collection is decent enough I don't need any disclaimers on WC cost, I can work that out myself. Thanks in advance.

Meta is almost entirely show and tell, and people brewing weird jank that loses to show and tell.

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream

A Moose posted:

Meta is almost entirely show and tell, and people brewing weird jank that loses to show and tell.

not even close to true lol

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

wei posted:

Betrayal's just a middling uncommon, it wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of my pick order. Signals don't matter

On the Tyrant's Scorn point I think you should be more open to 'splashing' or just playing more colours. Synergies and mechanics bleed into other colours, imo the drafts should be guided by higher rarity payoffs/buildarounds and not a rigid colour pair. I like the Sultai wedge because it has good access to two of the main pillars of the format (recursion and crimes).


I experimented more earlier in the format but have comfortably settled in the Bx midrange decks this week, since Gx should be more heavily contested now. Maybe I shouldn't be encouraging goons to play more colours but it's a good set to learn how to do it.



I have difficulty knowing when to take fixing and when to try and commit to two colors

Thundercracker
Jun 25, 2004

Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.
College Slice

reignonyourparade posted:

My understanding is the consequence unless you're SERIOUSLY abusing it is just "we're not going to refund you anymore."

Like, the only known case I've heard about of "actual consequences to your existing account instead of just having the refund tap turned off" was somebody who was deliberately taking a bugged card every time it came up in draft regardless of whether it would've actually been in his colors, then going to support with "hey I had this bugged card in my pool, please refund me."

Every other case, it's just people going "I got told I wouldn't get drafts refunded anymore."


That's annoying because I actually had to do that a couple of times for sawblade chariot because it wouldn't crew on opponents turn. I just assumed they fixed it each time because why would you leave a broken card that causes so many refunds to stay in the pool.

Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

Time posted:

not even close to true lol

Mind giving your own take, then? I know you play a lot of timeless.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

wei posted:

Betrayal's just a middling uncommon, it wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of my pick order. Signals don't matter

On the Tyrant's Scorn point I think you should be more open to 'splashing' or just playing more colours. Synergies and mechanics bleed into other colours, imo the drafts should be guided by higher rarity payoffs/buildarounds and not a rigid colour pair. I like the Sultai wedge because it has good access to two of the main pillars of the format (recursion and crimes).
I almost always splash, I love it (the final deck splashes two colors after all). I just didn't see Scorn as valuable enough for splashing, which I realize is a mistake - it hits a lot of things and has a great buyout for big stuff.

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream

Judgy Fucker posted:

Mind giving your own take, then? I know you play a lot of timeless.

there are lots of good decks. i built a brew and took it to high mythic and posted it here. i dont think its something i would craft from scratch but it was fun. I wanted to push back on the certainty that person was saying something that is not true

the format is insanely interactive rn. if you are trying to play a linear thing you are going to be repeatedly blown out in sideboarded games. mana drain, surgical, and reanimate have changed the format a bunch - as have the regular otj cards. jund is one of the best decks, shadow variants as well. Show and tell is very good and will sometimes make you feel like you were never in a game, but it is not head and shoulders better than the interactive stuff. It just goes over the top of non-interactive decks like titan. the best aggro deck is domain zoo and it should be played as aggressively as possible.

there is a good balance right now. too greedy? zoo beats you. no interaction? show and tell wins. too reliant on one thing? congrats on getting surgical'd out of the game. there are probably 20 decks you could climb the ladder with into mythic and be competitive the whole time. is there any style of play you gravitate towards? anything that is intriguing?

wei
Jul 27, 2006

Simply Simon posted:

I almost always splash, I love it (the final deck splashes two colors after all). I just didn't see Scorn as valuable enough for splashing, which I realize is a mistake - it hits a lot of things and has a great buyout for big stuff.

Ah yeah sorry, I should have looked again. You're right about Scorn and the format is shaping up to be a value/removal format so the efficient removal spells are premium.

kalel posted:

I have difficulty knowing when to take fixing and when to try and commit to two colors

This is my approach at this stage of the format, but I haven't done as many drafts as I normally would and I haven't drafted some of these decks.

Assertive Green creature decks (GW, RG): No/minimal splashing.
Mardu shitters, go wide? (RB, BW, RW): No splashing again. I've only drafted BW and it was good. Recursion is good in this format.

Nongreen multicolour (e.g. UB base, Grixis, Esper crimes): Pick deserts higher. Oasis Gardeners are fine. Bandit's Haul is both fixing and a payoff in these decks. I haven't played the 1/2 that puts a land on top of your library and would hope never to.
Green multicolour (GB, UG base): You get more chances at picking up fixing but I don't like Dance of the Tumbleweeds much. Hardbristle Bandit is nice, esp if you're in the crime space. Armadillo and Greenblade are premium uncommons and major pulls into G.

UW and UR are bad, their synergies don't quite get there and the commons aren't deep enough. If I were to build around some of these synergies I would try and build these into a Bx shard deck. I'm sure offerred enough power you can build into Bant/Temur but Black has better buildarounds imo.


I pick bombs, then premium removal and buildarounds/payoffs (e.g. Intimidation Campaign, Lazav, Rutstein, Back for More, Pegasus, Ruthless Lawbringer) over fixing.

I'm reasonably happy with this draft as an example, but there was a rare draft or two in pack 2 so disregard those. https://www.17lands.com/draft/fe8fe2af18444f549b2e41b6270fdb0c

Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

Time posted:

the best aggro deck is domain zoo and it should be played as aggressively as possible.

Domain zoo is where I will start then, thanks!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I played the first game with my deck now and let me just tell you, picking up Vault Plunderer with the Possum 3 times is incredible even if it's not the main plan. I have no idea why they didn't just trade with their deathtoucher (the 3/2 Apothecary) but I think they had a grand plan around Greed's Gambit and lifelinking all the losses back. Meanwhile I got three lands off Freestrider Lookout (play Desert, get another non-pinging tapped land is seriously funny) and just played a billion things. They did a big turn gaining back 6 life but that didn't even offset how far the Gambit had drained already. Don't think it's a good plan!!!

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Simply Simon posted:

Meanwhile I got three lands off Freestrider Lookout (play Desert, get another non-pinging tapped land is seriously funny)

Funniest thing I've done with Freestrider Lookout is played all three modes on Trash the Town, pump a creature to win combat and give the card draw trigger to my unblocked creature, but give my opponent's creature trample to get the crime trigger. This was at FNM, so I got to see them reread Trash and ask "what the gently caress is his card???" as I turn my three 3 for 1 into a 4 for 1.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Should I play the Great Train heist in monored?

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

MonsieurChoc posted:

Should I play the Great Train heist in monored?

I tried a few copies in a low CMC Slick Shot deck and found it was mostly a pointless win more honestly, and you don't really want something that costs that much.

thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 23, 2024

GrandpaPants
Feb 13, 2006


Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Pro tip if you want to play that Bonny Pall Festival: Mono red Prowess absolutely destroys. Doing 5 damage on turn 1 was not uncommon!

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
https://www.17lands.com/history/5132607bc3f341ef904a73608325b83d/4/0 I really thought I was going to get to 3 wins with this until I saw that stupid horse come down.

Venuz Patrol
Mar 27, 2011

https://www.17lands.com/draft/e3a5282147d24189823cd7f3cd0c88e8

i managed a 7-2 trophy on a very fun grixis crime deck splashing for villainous wealth. i think i'm starting to get better at evaluating card value in limited- everything in this deck put in work at some point or another in the league, even the gold pan in one game i was mana starved and had to peck in the air with my raven to get anything done

i really wanted to try comboing Breeches and Esoteric Duplicator together, but i wanted to win any of my games even more than that. why did they make OTJ breeches so bad???

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CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



lol do I play Gisa here?


https://www.17lands.com/draft/a7e5745fb7f04822820e85aec1235165

The ideal is hiding her away under the collector's cage but if the game goes long I think Greenblade + 5 fetchable sources seems doable? I guess I could just put in white filler for consistency, especially since I'm not making the best use of the Mount stuff... Also maybe I have too many tricks lol. Maybe regardless i cut two Take up the Shields and put in the bighorns

CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 23, 2024

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