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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z3QKkl1WyM Official Disney Summary: Queen Ramonda (Angela Bassett), Shuri (Letitia Wright), M’Baku (Winston Duke), Okoye (Danai Gurira) and the Dora Milaje (including Florence Kasumba), fight to protect their nation from intervening world powers in the wake of King T’Challa’s death. As the Wakandans strive to embrace their next chapter, the heroes must band together with the help of War Dog Nakia (Lupita Nyong’o) and Everett Ross (Martin Freeman) and forge a new path for the kingdom of Wakanda. Made in the shadow of Chadwick Boseman's death, Disney declined to recast the role, a decision supported by some fans as respectful to his legacy while criticized by others, including the late actor's brother speaking on his understanding of his brother's preferences. The sequel instead focuses on how the fictional kingdom of Wakanda will carry on without its protector and, implicitly, how the MCU will move on from losing one of its brighter stars. It introduces the villain/sometimes-antihero Namor (Roman spelled backwards), an oceanic mutant that interacted with numerous parts of the Marvel comics universe. It also sets up the hero Ironheart, who will have a series on Disney+ in late 2023. Director and writer Ryan Coogler returns from the original. Primary Cast Angela Bassett as Ramonda Letitia Wright as Shuri Winston Duke as M'Baku Danai Gurira as Ogoye Florence Kasumba as Ayo Lupita Nyong’o as Nakia Martin Freeman as Everett Ross Tenoch Huerta as Namor the Sub-Mariner Dominique Thorne as Riri aka Ironheart Michaela Coel as Aneka Mabel Cadena as Namora Alex Livanalli as Attuma The film fully opens November 11, though, as usual, that actually means November 10. Some "top critics" reviews from Rotten Tomatoes, where it sits at 85% on the evening of November 10th: Positive "To a much greater degree than I would have thought possible, Wakanda Forever is a gajillion-dollar comic-book blockbuster about something as complex and interior as the act of female mourning, split among at least four different strong woman protagonists." – Dana Stevens, Slate "Tragedy has always been an easy win for Marvel, laying waste to worlds so that chiselled heroes can gaze damp-eyed into the middle distance. Now, real life has shocked the glib out of the operation. For the first time... the tears actually mean something." – Danny Leigh, Financial Times "Chadwick Boseman is deeply missed in a sequel that still checks all the right boxes for Marvel fans." – Rafer Guzman, Newsday "Director/co-writer Ryan Coogler packed each of the 141 minutes of 'Wakanda' with good stuff." – Chris Hewitt, Minneapolis Star Tribune Negative "'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' might have its heart in the right place but is in the wrong mindset and in the worst space—at the center of a contrived cinematic universe—to mourn on its own terms." – Robert Daniels, RogerEbert.com "Regrettably, Black Panther: Wakanda Forever tries to do so many things that it comes across as threadbare and pallid — less a failure of imagination and more of circumstance, time, and narrative constraints." – Angelica Jade Bastién, New York Magazine/Vulture Please use spoiler tags for this thread for the first couple of weeks to allow people who don't watch it opening weekend to have the opportunity to see some spoiler-free discussion. Spoiler-tag-free posting can begin on Thanksgiving (US, November 24). Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 11, 2022 |
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Nov 11, 2022 01:24
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I was going to make a BP thread but as a poo poo post so thank you for making this instead. I’m gonna see it tonight
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Nov 11, 2022 01:46
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Gatts posted:I was going to make a BP thread but as a poo poo post so thank you for making this instead. I'll be watching it Tuesday, so I'll need to avoid this thread until then.
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Nov 11, 2022 03:59
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thought it was pretty okay i liked a lot of it despite the fairly weak and unnecessary addition of ri-ri/ironheart, whose introduction and backstory deserves more attention and appreciation. Is she getting her own show or anything? that felt like one plot thread too many. the movie suffered as a result.
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Nov 11, 2022 04:30
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my cat is norris posted:thought it was pretty okay She is, yes.
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Nov 11, 2022 04:31
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Just got home from seeing it. Honestly not impressed. Namor is such a better character in the comics. Plot is predictable, characters are flat and uninteresting, even the soundtrack is boring. I expected a lot more after I loved the original. Reviews seem to be glowing so maybe I'm just not vibing with it but I wish I hadn't wasted almost 3 hours in a theater on that.
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Nov 11, 2022 04:34
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Give the people what they want. More M'Baku. I don't have too much to say. I thought it was probably the best crop of Marvel movies this year but that's not an incredibly high bar to clear.
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Nov 11, 2022 04:39
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Just got home from the movie. Absolutely loved it. As a sequel, it's the best direct sequel since Winter Soldier. Elevates everything from the original and explores some interesting things. I may have more to say tomorrow once I've really digested it, but a few initial impressions... -- Yeah it was long but I never once checked the time like I did during Eternals. I felt the pacing was good. -- Overall, some of the best performances in an MCU entry. Letitia Wright, Winston Duke, Angela Bassett... all very good. But Tenoch Huerta owned every scene he was in and I'm in awe of how great of an interpretation we got for Namor. Just, wow. -- My only gripe was how as excited as I was to get one of my favorite new Marvel characters on screen, Riri Williams, she really felt like a studio mandate. Her inclusion in the third act was pretty pointless and a distraction from an otherwise excellent story. She deserved more development than what she got and could have been handled better. I had several issues with that whole part because it was so nonsensical. -- Ludwig Goransson's score was fantastic. Really captured the emotional weight and intensity pitch perfectly from beginning to end. -- I was critical of the idea that they simply couldn't recast T'Challa, but I'm happy I was wrong. The way its handled was great and I'm eager to see how they develop Toussaint, aka, T'Challa Jr. -- I was really struck by the final scene with Shuri. She meets her nephew and her performance is stellar. I liked how you could absolutely tell she was joyous to realize part of her brother lived, but that one more thing was due to be taken away from her; the throne. -- I'm glad we have a slightly better understanding of who Val serves. Strong rear end movie. Can't wait to get a chance to rewatch.
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Nov 11, 2022 05:56
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Sir Kodiak posted:
The movie grew on me a lot as I was watching it and I came out mostly positive on it, but I agree with most of Angelica Jade Bastien's review above. Mostly I think the weight of so many pressures to be basically a seminal work for the Black community as well as mourning its star both on and offscreen are bound to result in some missteps. The action doesn't feel as good as Black Panther even though there are some cool setups, but it overachieves by expanding the series' grappling with colonialism to show how it drives minority groups apart, even if the idea isn't explored very thoroughly. There is a whole lot of talent in this movie though, and for the most part I think they're used fairly well.
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Nov 11, 2022 08:47
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Ruthkanda forever 🙅♂️
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Nov 11, 2022 14:12
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Doronin posted:
How are they going to "develop" that character? He's like 5 years old. They would have to extend the timeline forward more than they ever had in the MCU.
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Nov 11, 2022 14:58
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Caseman posted:How are they going to "develop" that character? He's like 5 years old. They would have to extend the timeline forward more than they ever had in the MCU. They're gonna put him in the Hypertonic Lion Tamer
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Nov 11, 2022 16:34
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I mostly liked it (the supporting cast from the original and Namor are great, and it largely sticks the landing on the big emotional beats), but it's hard to deny that it's overlong and lumpily paced, lacking in thematic and narrative cohesion compared to the first film. Some of that was probably inevitable given the circumstances under which it had to be made - I'm not sure it would ever have been possible to seamlessly work Chadwick Boseman's death into the Wakanda vs. Namor story that Coogler et al had originally intended to tell - but there are some pretty obvious areas where secondary characters could have had their roles reduced or cut altogether with some smart rewrites. Namely, Martin Freeman probably shouldn't have had more than a cameo here, and while Dominique Thorne is fine as Riri Williams/Ironheart, the script could easily have instigated a conflict between Wakanda and Talokan without giving that role to a new superhero with her own character arc.
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Nov 11, 2022 19:33
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I felt it was just kinda slow and dull. M'Baku and Namor are the best bits as everyone suspected they would be. But the majority of the movie is just very straight-ahead, tell-don't-show exposition which, in a nearly 3 hour long movie, just got tedious.
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Nov 11, 2022 19:35
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Between work and having to take care of a family member for a while, I won't be able to see this for a couple weeks. But for those who have seen it (without spoilers): How is Namor? I was completely blown away when he was introduced in the trailer (I keep out of production news on movies I'm looking forward to) and hope that one of my favorite old school Marvel characters is done right, including updating him for the 21st century.
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Nov 11, 2022 20:31
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He's smug and cruel and regal and terrifying when he needs to be, a good Namor. Even gave a wildly Meso-American character a good enough reason to be called Namor. e: Also not as badass as he thinks he is, which is good. Mulva fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 11, 2022 |
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Nov 11, 2022 20:35
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Mulva posted:He's smug and cruel and regal and terrify when he needs to be, a good Namor. Even gave a wildly Meso-American character a good enough reason to be called Namor. Fukkin' A. This is exactly what I wanted to hear.
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Nov 11, 2022 20:57
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Yeah, Namor is easily the best bit of the movie, to the point where plenty of the scenes gave me "...but what's Namor up to" feelings. Give him his own movie.
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Nov 11, 2022 21:11
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I missed this bit in the OP: is this referring to one quote from Boseman’s brother? seems like bait but okquote:Made in the shadow of Chadwick Boseman's death, Disney opted to ignore his dying wishes and those of his family, and declined to recast the role.
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Nov 11, 2022 21:54
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Rewrote it to be more neutral. I didn't want to ignore the issue, but I'm not interested in starting an argument about it.
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Nov 11, 2022 22:23
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Namor is rad I want to see more of him.
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Nov 11, 2022 22:32
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First movie was so good, this one was such a bummer. - i felt like I sat through a 3 hour funeral wake, crying and all. - maybe it was my theater but a lot of the scenes were way too dark - iron heart was cool, but felt really out of place. the introduction of her final suit was treated with the same reverence as iron man 1 but wasn't earned in any way, she could be cut entirely and it would make little difference - the cgi was so rough in places it took me out of the movie - love M'Baku, I would watch his movie - a lot of things felt shoehorned in because Disney is making too much marvel poo poo Overall, it wasn't terrible, better than Thor, but was a slog.
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Nov 11, 2022 23:22
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What was with the mid credits sequence? I might have missed something but was it dramatically revealed that T'Challa had a son only for the son to sit down and dramatically reveal that he is the son of T'Challa? We literally heard that 30 seconds ago....
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Nov 11, 2022 23:40
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Just watching the credits now and I loved it. It was so great seeing a major blockbuster being led entirely by black women (and Winston Duke). It was incredibly beautiful both in visuals and sound. The trip to Talokan alone is the highlight of phase 4. Namor's a super antagonist and the Talokans are presented so well, can't wait to see more of them. I totally cried at the tribute Marvel logo The only bad bit was the much hyped LGBTQ+ content inevitably being one scene they can cut for the Middle East. Oh and I guess all the Everett Ross scenes were pretty pointless
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Nov 12, 2022 00:30
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I just saw it, great movie, strong way to end phase 4. Favourite bit: Ironheart having her Stark homage moment where she's trying to fly up 20,000 ft only to pass out and fall back down, very different circumstances from Stark's but I think it helps differentiate her character from Tony. But yeah I loved that moment a lot.
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Nov 12, 2022 01:29
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Looten Plunder posted:What was with the mid credits sequence? I might have missed something but was it dramatically revealed that T'Challa had a son only for the son to sit down and dramatically reveal that he is the son of T'Challa? We literally heard that 30 seconds ago.... Yeah, that was a thing that happened. There were several scenes where any subtext was text. Towards the end there was also the scene with Namor and one of the Atlantean characters (did any of them have any development?) where he explains just why Shuri spared him and how that's a good thing. Which I thought we got in all of the flashbacks as she was about to kill him, but maybe it was needed. I thought it was okay. A few scenes seemed to start at odd places, like they could really have used either a little more time or a little less. Several scenes felt like they were missing middle distance shots, we would only see characters in close ups and not with the person they were talking to. I'm assuming this was due to all of the Covid restrictions. I didn't enjoy much of the action. It felt flat and hard to follow in spots, especially the final big fight. I also was really not clear if the Atlanteans could be killed. They seemed to regenerate for most of the movie, were all of the Wakandans just really on a suicide mission? The giant ship was a terrible battle plan.
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Nov 12, 2022 02:04
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Fell Fire posted:Yeah, that was a thing that happened. There were several scenes where any subtext was text. Towards the end there was also the scene with Namor and one of the Atlantean characters (did any of them have any development?) where he explains just why Shuri spared him and how that's a good thing. Which I thought we got in all of the flashbacks as she was about to kill him, but maybe it was needed. I interpreted that Namor scene a little different: It wasn't him re-explaning things for the audience, it was him justifying/rationalizing events to molify Namora, like he's doing the equivalent of "We didn't want that POS anyways." and how it's all still going to keikaku.
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Nov 12, 2022 02:40
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It didn’t seem so much as restating as explaining: He’s going to make them pay when Wakanda eventually comes and asks for help.
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Nov 12, 2022 02:43
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On the flipside of over explaining things, Namoor's initial origin story explanation was fantastic but for him to cap it off with "and that is why I have to kill the scientist" was laughable. None of what he said beforehand justified that reasoning.
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Nov 12, 2022 03:36
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Loved everything about Namor. I agree with the above interpretation and hope he sticks around for a while as an antagonist. Movie could have been shorter. A lot of the mourning scenes felt like it was just the same thing again and again. Not moving the plot or characters forward. Ironheart was ok. I enjoyed the scenes in Boston. But after that she did feel like an afterthought. Especially when Shuri invented her own Ironman suits for the Dora Milaje. Too many Ironwomen at that point.
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Nov 12, 2022 04:11
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Zero One posted:Ironheart was ok. I enjoyed the scenes in Boston. But after that she did feel like an afterthought. Especially when Shuri invented her own Ironman suits for the Dora Milaje. Too many Ironwomen at that point. The worst part of the movie is Okoye's ridiculous looking suit.
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Nov 12, 2022 04:14
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Invalid Validation posted:It didn’t seem so much as restating as explaining: He’s going to make them pay when Wakanda eventually comes and asks for help. That's how I read that scene, too. Basically, a very Namor thing to do. Caseman posted:How are they going to "develop" that character? He's like 5 years old. They would have to extend the timeline forward more than they ever had in the MCU. something, something quantum realm, multiverse.... hell if I know. I'm just interested to see what they do with a 7 or 8 year old heir to Wakanda.
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Nov 12, 2022 04:17
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Doronin posted:That's how I read that scene, too. Basically, a very Namor thing to do. I assumed M’Baku is King now. So they have some time until Jr. shows up again during Young Avengers 2.5: Civil War II
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Nov 12, 2022 04:31
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Zero One posted:I assumed M’Baku is King now. So they have some time until Jr. shows up again during Young Avengers 2.5: Civil War II This is what I came to ask about. What's up with that scene? Isn't Black Panther/Shuri the queen? How can he challenge for the throne if the ruler isn't there to accept the challenge?
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Nov 12, 2022 04:42
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Looten Plunder posted:This is what I came to ask about. What's up with that scene? Isn't Black Panther/Shuri the queen? How can he challenge for the throne if the ruler isn't there to accept the challenge? Maybe he's serving as her champion? Since you have to fight without the Panther juice, which Shuri probably wouldn't be able to win a challenge without it. So I imagine its either that or she basically stepped down to let someone else rule Wakanda while she focuses on being a superhero and inventor.
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Nov 12, 2022 04:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:I interpreted that Namor scene a little different: It wasn't him re-explaning things for the audience, it was him justifying/rationalizing events to molify Namora, like he's doing the equivalent of "We didn't want that POS anyways." and how it's all still going to keikaku. That makes sense. I think I'm tired of the Marvel formula where 99% of problems can be solved through violence. Re: M'baku and Shuri as queen. I took it as her abdication and deciding she wouldn't be a very good queen, but is still Black Panther. I was a bit confused as to why rule passed up to her mother after T'Challa's death, anyway. Did she defeat any challenges?
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Nov 12, 2022 05:23
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Fell Fire posted:That makes sense. I think I'm tired of the Marvel formula where 99% of problems can be solved through violence. I dunno any of the lore in the comics but Wouldn't be surprised if she (the Queen) was like from a powerful tribe/clan and it isn't wholly without precedent, ie the Chinese Dowager Empress and Empress Wu. Wakanda already went through a lot of instability and letting her rule in a caretaker role makes sense until it can be passed to someone else. I am also similarly tired of MCU movies killing off antagonists as they appear, so this was a nice change of pace.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:32
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One of the better ones they've put out in a while. I still think it's very gross how hard they're capitalizing on Chadwick Boseman's death to make an entire movie about it.
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Nov 12, 2022 05:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:I am also similarly tired of MCU movies killing off antagonists as they appear, so this was a nice change of pace. Figure that eventually Namor will get his own movie like Black Adam did
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Nov 12, 2022 16:36
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It's pretty crazy how bad all these bilion dollar grossing, 200 million dollar Marvel movies look at times.
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Nov 12, 2022 16:49
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