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Raenir Salazar posted:Definitely I feel like Namor's city could've been way brighter and vibrant, in 500 years I am 100% certain they've could've All Tomorrow's some deep sea glow in the dark fish to act as modern Vegas style storefront lights. I appreciated that they made the actors open their eyes underwater instead of just filming them on a green screen and CGing their hair to make it look like they were underwater like Aquaman.
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Nov 14, 2022 06:02
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The reveal of Talokan was one of the few times I've experienced genuine wonder at something in the MCU. What the gently caress are you talking about "too dark"
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Nov 14, 2022 06:18
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flashy_mcflash posted:I wish the lines of the film's true villain, Valentina, were treated with more gravity. Maybe it just feels trite because it's Julia Louis-Dreyfus so it feels like she's going to bung up this American imperialist initiative in the way Selina Kyle or Elaine Benes would. The line about wanting to destabilize Wakanda really should play as a big supervillain line, but it feels like a joke. Then again, I never watched any of the Winter Soldier show so maybe she's better established there. I don't know if I should put this in spoilers, but just to be safe. In Falcon and the Winter Soldier Valentina only appears in two scenes. Long story short, John Walker, the government's replacement for Captain America, got a little bloodthirsty and caused an international incident. He was relieved of his duties in disgrace. Valentina appeared to him and his wife, acted all playful and enigmatic, and said that she had use for him. In the final episode, Walker helped out the good guys and redeemed himself just enough. Valentina later had him put on a black version of the Cap costume, saying that the world needs a US Agent. At no point was it made clear that she was CIA, though she was blatantly amoral at best.
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Nov 14, 2022 06:38
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The Val stuff fits when you consider that Wakanda Forever is also Captain America 5 or 6.
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Nov 14, 2022 07:03
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live with fruit posted:The Val stuff fits when you consider that Wakanda Forever is also Captain America 5 or 6. Did the character of Captain America appear in the movie even once? No? Then it probably wasn't. Remember that the MCU stands for Marvel Cinematic Universe. All of this stuff is happening in the same universe. Figure that much like in our own real world the USA was considered to be the biggest economic/military power on Earth. And now some pissant African country that was assumed to not even be able to have baked bread or flush toilets turns out to be decades more advanced than anyone else, knocking the USA off that top spot. Of course certain people in USA are going to want their #1 spot back.
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Nov 14, 2022 15:18
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Everyone posted:Did the character of Captain America appear in the movie even once? No? Then it probably wasn't. Remember that the MCU stands for Marvel Cinematic Universe. All of this stuff is happening in the same universe. Figure that much like in our own real world the USA was considered to be the biggest economic/military power on Earth. And now some pissant African country that was assumed to not even be able to have baked bread or flush toilets turns out to be decades more advanced than anyone else, knocking the USA off that top spot. Of course certain people in USA are going to want their #1 spot back. It's all happening in the same universe but these two series are the only ones dealing with it, to the point that their characters bounce between each other's series. Of course Wakanda Forever isn't literally Captain America 5 but the stories are intertwined, which makes Val's presence fit.
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Nov 14, 2022 17:37
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this should be in the OP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McCTU_Q07uA
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Nov 14, 2022 17:56
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Wasn't Val in hawkeye also? Here's a random question for lore.... wasn't T'Challa snapped? what did Wakanda do for those 5 years while he was gone? lol
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Nov 14, 2022 20:52
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w00tazn posted:Wasn't Val in hawkeye also? I assume Ramonda became Queen because that’s what happened the second time T’Challa died. She probably willingly gave him back the crown when he returned.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:32
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I'm not a fan of how the Black Panther appeared to be fully cgi a lot of the time instead of a person in a suit.
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Nov 14, 2022 21:47
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Barry Convex posted:re: Namor, imo, a smarter rewrite of the opening would have had some of the Talokanil getting attacked and killed by Westerners looking for vibranium, instead of the scene we actually get, in which Talokan comes off as the aggressor by killing people who merely stumbled onto their vibranium (even if they no doubt had bad intentions for it). Would have given them a more sympathetic reason for blaming Wakanda and going to war. Buddy, this is such a white moderate take. The vibranium has been found. You either let France go Cortez 2.0 or you nip that poo poo in the bud.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:51
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w00tazn posted:Wasn't Val in hawkeye also? No, she was in the post-credits for Black Widow to set up Yelena's role in Hawkeye. Now that we know more about her, it looks like the CIA is in some way associated with the Kingpin's organization.
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Nov 14, 2022 22:51
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Saw this 24 hours ago and haven't really stopped thinking about it. The acting, the art direction, the soundtrack. This is the movie the MCU desperately needed to show that someone knows what the hell they're doing. Easily the best since Infinity War. Shuri carried the movie surprisingly well. Ramonda killed every scene she was in. I loved Ironheart's introduction and actual comedic relief she brought. But the MVP was Okoye. Incredible peaks and valleys for her character and now I get why she's apparently getting a spin-off. Saw some complaints about the combat being bad and I don't agree at all. Every fight was tense and brutal but I especially loved the one-on-ones between Okoye vs Attuma and Black Panther vs Namor. It's wild that some Talokan grunts were more of an intimidating presence than Gorr the loving God Butcher. I'd say give Ryan Coogler the keys to the Avengers but he deserves better than the burnout from that responsibility.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:47
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Thundercracker posted:Buddy, this is such a white moderate take. The vibranium has been found. You either let France go Cortez 2.0 or you nip that poo poo in the bud. Yeah. Speaking as a white moderate, figure Namor and co. have some pretty deep ancestral memories of the last time a bunch of us paleface mother-fuckers caught a whiff that there were shiny valuable rocks in their territory.
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Nov 15, 2022 01:54
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Everyone posted:Yeah. Speaking as a white moderate, figure Namor and co. have some pretty deep ancestral memories of the last time a bunch of us paleface mother-fuckers caught a whiff that there were shiny valuable rocks in their territory. For Namor its even within living memory. 
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Nov 15, 2022 01:58
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Shneak posted:Saw this 24 hours ago and haven't really stopped thinking about it. The acting, the art direction, the soundtrack. This is the movie the MCU desperately needed to show that someone knows what the hell they're doing. Easily the best since Infinity War.  these are basically my thoughts as well.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:23
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Namor's hardline on murdering iron heart (a young nonpartisan student prodigy) even when she was a secured asset, really sucked IMO. Real nations can, have, and would/will do such things, but Namor is a character and even his pride and rage and responsibilities don't justify (again obviously imo) his insistence on that act. I think his actions wrt the vibranium seeking ship (or missionary) work well. Maybe if they'd stressed more how he needed to seem strong for his people, or wanted to kill her as the opening salvo of their war against the surface (he didn't even want to reveal himself yet in film). Shuri or even/(especially) ironheart should've been capable of a compelling argument he'd have to be an absolute fool or villian to dismiss. Maybe I've come full circle on my "I only see mcu movies" phase, and the universersal implications of the characters really does interfere with the story. Just saw too many plot-convienant motivations and occurrences to do lifting for the film.
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Nov 15, 2022 02:42
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Namor killed the leader of a sovereign nation he wants to ally with to send a message. Trying to kill Riri is nothing.
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Nov 15, 2022 03:45
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I think of it as like a Nietzschean Will to Power sort of thing.
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Nov 15, 2022 04:02
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While it might not make sense to some, it is pretty perfectly in character for Namor in the comics. He's just that dude.
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Nov 15, 2022 05:02
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Namor's motivations make sense if you analyze them carefully after the movie and keeping in mind all the historical and sociological nuances of colonialism. In the movie and in the moment he kinda comes off as an rear end in a top hat who doesn't give diplomacy a fair shot (like the Wakandans do despite every other country being Just The Worst).
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Nov 15, 2022 05:40
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dpkg chopra posted:Namor's motivations make sense if you analyze them carefully after the movie and keeping in mind all the historical and sociological nuances of colonialism. He's the villain. Plus none of the Wakandans said his name correctly. live with fruit fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 06:04
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So was Killmonger and he still had a better explanation to why he had such a cynical outlook on life. If I’m just watching this movie, Namor has led one of the most powerful civilizations on Earth for the past 500 years and decided that the only way he can solve poo poo is by murdering a 19 year old kid even though they can clearly credibly threaten any world power?
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Nov 15, 2022 06:40
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dpkg chopra posted:So was Killmonger and he still had a better explanation to why he had such a cynical outlook on life. They want to stay hidden. live with fruit fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 06:42
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Was anyone else expecting the inventor to be one of the many existing MIT science prodigies we've seen in Spiderman, Ms Marvel etc?
stev fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 08:48
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I'm just going to assume MCU Namor has the same 'being in the sea or above land too long makes him wacko' thing to justify all his character swings that comics Namor has
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Nov 15, 2022 12:05
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I dunno, Namors lust for murder felt absolutely in character. In the comics, he consistently seems to prefer the extreme option vs. the reasonable one and has to be talked off the ledge from invading the surface world for....*checks notes* a child littering? every other week.
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Nov 15, 2022 12:26
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Xander B Coolridge posted:The reveal of Talokan was one of the few times I've experienced genuine wonder at something in the MCU. I didn't think it was too dark either, but I felt like there were definitely points in the movie where they REALLY closed in on people's faces while they were talking and some scenes felt a bit claustrophobic. I'll wait until I see it again on Disney+ but in the theater that was my feeling. No a spoiler but just to be safe It sorta sucks that Wakanda has been invaded twice successfully already. I thought it was a thing that Wakanda is hard to invade?
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Nov 15, 2022 13:57
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dpkg chopra posted:So was Killmonger and he still had a better explanation to why he had such a cynical outlook on life. Yeah. I'd be dissapointed in Namors leadership and judgement even if they had done more to have him explain and justify his hardline on murdering this girl (even when she was already their prisoner). The movie did explicitly say she was "the only one who could make that machine", but even then why would the Atlanteans wait to begin their war? How long until it's re-created by another scientist? Killing this girl eventually has no material benefit. Just a symbol of their unforgiving senseless rage that ensures they will lose their only potential (very powerful) ally, presumably shortly before their war campaign against the rest of the world. Namor may be a proud stubborn rear end in a top hat, but this was a misstep out of necessity to the plot.
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Nov 15, 2022 15:06
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I think at this point most people have a number of Marvel titles that get watched out of duty/completionist mentality. This one was for me given that I found the first one to be pretty mediocre in story, unremarkable in craft (man, some of those green screen shots) and disappointingly conservative in message by the end. And (a sin to say I know), I found Boseman's T'Challa to be incredibly bland. And even more so felt like it would be a chore since Letitia Wright is a anti-vaxxer/TERF I just plain don't want to support. Begrudgingly, I thought this was better than the first one in overall flow, sound, visuals, performances, dialogue and story. More cinematic. Only real complaint is that yeah, I still don't want to see any more of Wright entirely on principle, and the various characters that tie in to upcoming projects... I get why it's done but I wish I could see just one thing that is divorced from everything else in the MCU. Reminding me of all the other stuff coming up feeds into the superhero fatigue.
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Nov 15, 2022 19:59
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live with fruit posted:They want to stay hidden. I will admit that it seems like the simplest solution, once they'd grabbed Riri and Shuri would have been to just feed Riri their special plant, turn her into a blue water-breather and go "Congratulations, you live here now. First job, build a thingie that shields our Vibranium from detection."
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Nov 15, 2022 22:27
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Mochiballs posted:I didn't think it was too dark either, but I felt like there were definitely points in the movie where they REALLY closed in on people's faces while they were talking and some scenes felt a bit claustrophobic. I'll wait until I see it again on Disney+ but in the theater that was my feeling. Wakanda has never been conquered despite attempts. Except one recent time in the comics when Thanos and a multiversal crew did it right before the Marvel Universe ended and none of the global super powers helped Wakanda. During Infinity they failed. But later welp.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:11
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The whole plot revolving around Namor demanding that Riri be killed was ridiculous. Most of all because didn't Riri have a line about how she made the Vibranium seeker machine for a class? Meaning she didn't even know that the government had stolen and used the design? Sure, Namor probably couldn't have known that, but if the government already had the plans for the machine, killing the inventor probably wouldn't stop them from making another one. Seemed flimsy to me.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:39
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Namor is not the smartest tool in the shed
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Nov 15, 2022 23:41
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Rarity posted:Namor is not the smartest tool in the shed Namor wants to be a hard man making hard choices but mostly just has a hard head.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:36
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Thundercracker posted:Buddy, this is such a white moderate take. The vibranium has been found. You either let France go Cortez 2.0 or you nip that poo poo in the bud. I don't think Namor and co acted wrongly at all, but the movie kinda gives up the game too early by showing them being ruthless killers from their first scene. Set/costume design, soundtrack, and cinematography were all among the best MCU has ever had. The funeral procession scene alone was maybe the best thing I've seen from Marvel Studios. The acting and heart of the story landed really well and not only because of the real-life weight of losing Boseman. Combat was really great until the characters moved like Superman and the CGI just couldn't keep up with the realism of the rest of the film. Namor-flying stuff especially, but also a lot of BP parts. Ironheart generally looked great in action though, which is what made it so glaring when one of the CGI shots stumbled. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Nov 16, 2022 |
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Nov 16, 2022 00:49
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OldSenileGuy posted:The whole plot revolving around Namor demanding that Riri be killed was ridiculous. Most of all because didn't Riri have a line about how she made the Vibranium seeker machine for a class? Meaning she didn't even know that the government had stolen and used the design? Sure, Namor probably couldn't have known that, but if the government already had the plans for the machine, killing the inventor probably wouldn't stop them from making another one. I think in general with MCU movies whenever a supergenius is involved we're supposed to believe that contrary to the real world where such things requires a huge team of talented people working together that: only that one person is truly critical to the thing. E.g: Only Tony Stark can make a miniturized arc reactor and all of the resources and brightest engineers at Stark Industries being secretly put to that task by Obediah couldn't pull it off; only Humpty Dumpty can put himself back together. And thus only Riri can build a Vibranium detector; and US engineers and scientists trying to do it would fail to replicate it even when they get a chance to look at it like its Ork Warhammer 40,000 technology. It doesn't make real world sense; but its an internally consistent logic for comic books.
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Nov 16, 2022 00:50
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Mochiballs posted:I didn't think it was too dark either, but I felt like there were definitely points in the movie where they REALLY closed in on people's faces while they were talking and some scenes felt a bit claustrophobic. I'll wait until I see it again on Disney+ but in the theater that was my feeling. Also I liked the depiction of Namor's flying in this. He doesn't fly around propelling himself like superman, but he literally uses his feet wings to push off and stop or change his momentum.
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Nov 16, 2022 01:57
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MasterSitsu posted:I think at this point most people have a number of Marvel titles that get watched out of duty/completionist mentality. I don't think it's very normal to have this attitude no matter how many people are doing it (I suspect less than you think). You really don't have to consume or like this or any movie. You don't owe them anything.
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Nov 16, 2022 02:07
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flashy_mcflash posted:I don't think it's very normal to have this attitude no matter how many people are doing it (I suspect less than you think). You really don't have to consume or like this or any movie. You don't owe them anything. It's more of an obligation to follow everything to understand what's going on in the ones you do want to see.
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Nov 16, 2022 02:14
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