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This Movie is just a really bad rehash of the same moral confusion and lovely storyline that Black Panther 1 beat into the ground. Honestly the film has made me reanalyze the first film and honestly start downgrading how much I liked and rated that film given how we're getting this same message repeatedly from these movies about minority respectability politics and knowing your place. They're not pro-black or pro-hispanic movies in any way or form. If anything I find them to be quite the opposite. I don't know how Marvel continues to create movies where the "Villains" of the film are actually the heroes and the heroes of the film are actually they villains but they've been doing it non-stop for the past 20 or so releases. It's pretty bad.
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Jan 5, 2023 05:10
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CameronisGod posted:I don't know how Marvel continues to create movies where the "Villains" of the film are actually the heroes and the heroes of the film are actually they villains but they've been doing it non-stop for the past 20 or so releases. It's pretty bad. It's better than the villain being one-note or a complete copy of the hero they did for a long time, honestly. Vulture was the first great villain where you'd actually care about them were as the others before him (Yellowjacket, Iron Monger...etc) all kind of sucked. Except for Loki. He's good because Tom Hiddleston makes him funny and better than Thor. Especially after Thor 4.
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Jan 5, 2023 05:56
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ThermoPhysical posted:It's better than the villain being one-note or a complete copy of the hero they did for a long time, honestly. Vulture was the first great villain where you'd actually care about them were as the others before him (Yellowjacket, Iron Monger...etc) all kind of sucked. Loki was at best an "okay" villain. He became much more interesting as of Thor: The Dark World when he became more of an anti-hero.
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Jan 5, 2023 06:09
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Everyone posted:Loki was at best an "okay" villain. He became much more interesting as of Thor: The Dark World when he became more of an anti-hero. Honestly, I need to watch that movie again. I fell asleep during it, not because it was boring but I had a crappy night the night before.
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Jan 5, 2023 06:16
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CameronisGod posted:I don't know how Marvel continues to create movies where the "Villains" of the film are actually the heroes and the heroes of the film are actually they villains but they've been doing it non-stop for the past 20 or so releases. It's true. Sure it makes the villians more compelling and relatable, but here's something more. Dismissing their ridiculous plans/methods needed to see them as "bad guys", Thanos and ultron's motivations were definitely correct and relevant. Lemme put this somewhat in terms of our current world, because it's been years since watching the films so I'm largely going from memory. Ultron seems to think humanity has run itself into a dead end, desperate for answers to problems that are increasingly caused by the very machine they depend on. By controlling so much of their environment and development, they have failed at diversity and adaptation, usurped the order of life. Thanos seems to see a certain tragedy of the commons. The ideas of peace and progress and growth forever are doomed without balance and sustainability. Today's excess is tomorrow's extinction, yet it's nobody's job to "do the work" of leaving enough for tomorrow. Ultron wanted to give humanity a little kick in the rear end, knock us out of our rut / captured cycle. Thanos was so incensed by the lack of responsibility among leaders or the masses, he resigned to take undue responsibility upon himself. Need a multiverse / alternate timeline / what if where Thanos and Ultron are openly protsgonists fighting to change a world fully captured and fully doomed , counter to the desires of its inhabitants who view them as bad bec- oh. If only they had plans that made sense, instead of "new ice age / near global extinction" and "kill 50% of all live I guess why not". To the topic of BPWF, Namor was such a big dumb rear end in a top hat about murdering one girl that as much as Shuri left me feeling rather cold I wanted her to just waste him at the end. He seemed to prove he was more committed to never reconsidering or compromising than any of the ideals that made him relatable, even with an otherwise willing and powerful alliance at stake. It is my biggest complaint, even as Namor being otherwise very well done was one of the best parts. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jan 5, 2023 |
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Jan 5, 2023 14:51
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Eliminating 50% of all types of life from all planets regardless of their situation or whatever Thanos did is actually stupid. If he just eliminated 100% of humans from Earth and called it a day maybe he would have had a more compelling case.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:29
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mystes posted:Eliminating 50% of all types of life from all planets regardless of their situation or whatever Thanos did is actually stupid. If he just eliminated 100% of humans from Earth and called it a day maybe he would have had a more compelling case. Literally him in the comics, he wants to kill EVERYTHING to impress Mistress Death. If they'd worked on that a bit to a full on death cult where he wants life to start over like a reset and he only takes half of all life cause Strange hosed with the time stone or something you know WIZARD DID IT they could still have had the same setup for the next movie. Not even with years of hindsight here I heard this from someone right after seeing it myself.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:35
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mystes posted:Eliminating 50% of all types of life from all planets regardless of their situation or whatever Thanos did is actually stupid. If he just eliminated 100% of humans from Earth and called it a day maybe he would have had a more compelling case. Well you're free to discuss whatever ya want, and you didn't quote me, but just in case... I do feel the need to point out my post definitely stated that thanos' plan was stupid (and ultron's!) Their actual methods had to make them bad guys, but their motivations were surprisingly correct in a way and even if they had "good" plans I doubt they'd be seen as heroes by the systems and people they would be forcing rather radical changes upon. This is only for the MCU, comics Thanos is on some whole other poo poo loving both the force and avatar/manifestation of death. He's also famously self-defeating or perhaps self loathing, as pointed out by Memphis (if in a manipulative sense). All I know about comics ultron is ~crazy murder robot~. I believe the start of secret wars saw the villians team up to stop him right off the bat since he immediately goes all "EXTERMINATE!" on them.
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Jan 5, 2023 15:54
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MariusLecter posted:Literally him in the comics, he wants to kill EVERYTHING to impress Mistress Death. If they'd worked on that a bit to a full on death cult where he wants life to start over like a reset and he only takes half of all life cause Strange hosed with the time stone or something you know WIZARD DID IT they could still have had the same setup for the next movie. Not even with years of hindsight here I heard this from someone right after seeing it myself. Hey the "The rear end Was Fat" meme villain would at least have been interesting. And the comic version of Thanos does come off as a bad guy with bad reasons for doing what he is doing. The scale is also much, much bigger than anything presented in the Disney movies.
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Jan 5, 2023 23:18
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BRJurgis posted:It's true. Sure it makes the villians more compelling and relatable, but here's something more. Dismissing their ridiculous plans/methods needed to see them as "bad guys", Thanos and ultron's motivations were definitely correct and relevant. Lemme put this somewhat in terms of our current world, because it's been years since watching the films so I'm largely going from memory. Motivations are secondary to methodology. If my motive is "to bring ever-lasting peace and love to Earth" but my method is "by sacrificing infants to Moloch" my methodology is clearly flawed to the point that yeah, I'm very much the bad guy.
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Jan 6, 2023 00:02
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Everyone posted:Motivations are secondary to methodology. If my motive is "to bring ever-lasting peace and love to Earth" but my method is "by sacrificing infants to Moloch" my methodology is clearly flawed to the point that yeah, I'm very much the bad guy. Thats correct.
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Jan 6, 2023 01:12
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Finally got around to watching this fully. My first time was just after release, and the projector broke down about 20 mins in, so I eventually got to see the rest. drat, that shot of the T’challa mural during the funeral scene hit me so hard, I couldn’t help but tear up, as did the Marvel Studios opening bit with all the shots of Chadwick. Absolutely wrecked me. Nice to see Toby Ziegler made Secretary of State. Also, I was happy to see Namor be perfectly charming when he wanted to be. Like, yeah I’d have some of that if it was going. Please release the bulge cut. My prediction going in was that they were going to continue this phase’s remit of multiple versions of the same character, and have several characters take on the Black Panther mantle. I expected to see Shuri, Nakia, M’Baku, and maybe Okoye all suited up. Oh well.
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Jan 6, 2023 05:31
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The_Doctor posted:
Good to see I'm not the only fan of The West Wing here. I managed to stop myself from squealing "Toby!" in the theater but it was a close thing.
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Jan 6, 2023 15:01
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He wasn't driven by what would've accomplished his stated goals (which I don't know why we'd believe him about anyway,) the best. He was driven by trauma. He believes that hia idea would've saved *his* world. And then his world died. And now he's all obsessed with proving he could've saved his because otherwise he'd just have his pain. He's The Mad Titan. Not The Correct and Justified Titan or even merely The rear end in a top hat Titan.
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Jan 8, 2023 06:39
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I think it was weird that Ironheart’s in the movie because she and Shurri are both really really similar. Iconoclast genius girls with chips on their shoulders, dead relatives who taught them technology, who fight with powered suits. I can’t imagine watching this in theaters, watching it in two parts on Disney+ still felt pretty long.
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Feb 2, 2023 22:28
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I thought Wright did a surprisingly good job of carrying the dramatic weight but I am also grading her on a curve for being: a.) previously techie/chair girl/supporting character b.) haver of dumbass opinions in real life Very frustrating to have award winning actors Lupita Nyong'o and Angela "Should of been Storm in some universe" Bassett just sitting on the bench. Would of been very easy to write either one has being the Black Panther for a while. Angela Bassett certain had the arms for it she looked like Stallone in Rambo II.
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Feb 3, 2023 00:06
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Finally on Disney+ so I’m gonna watch it this weekend. Just one minor question before I jump in: what does the world know of Wakanda at this point (up to the start of the movie I mean)? My timeline is a bit fuzzy but the world no longer believes Wakanda to be a kingdom of poor farmers and herders anymore right? Do they know the full extent of Wakanda’s technology?
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Feb 3, 2023 21:36
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At the start of black panther they didn’t know the country existed, it was literally invisible. Now they know and black panther was a celebrity who continually interacted with the avengers.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:38
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Golden Bee posted:At the start of black panther they didn’t know the country existed, it was literally invisible. Now they know and black panther was a celebrity who continually interacted with the avengers. Yeah I know at the end of BP they said they would be more open and would share technology with the world. And then Infinity War and Endgame happened and my thinking was due to those events the world has finally learned just how technologically advanced Wakanda was. Am I wrong?
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Feb 3, 2023 21:43
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Golden Bee posted:At the start of black panther they didn’t know the country existed, it was literally invisible. Now they know and black panther was a celebrity who continually interacted with the avengers. Not quite true. The world knew the country of Wakanda existed but they thought it was basically like Sally Struthers Ethiopia or Rawanda - a super-poor African country with no exports or natural resources worth mentioning.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:43
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Avatar 2 had more teeth.
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Feb 3, 2023 23:26
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Everyone posted:Not quite true. The world knew the country of Wakanda existed but they thought it was basically like Sally Struthers Ethiopia or Rawanda - a super-poor African country with no exports or natural resources worth mentioning. Yes, which doesn't really make sense: the rest of the world knew Wakanda existed, but assumed it was an incredibly poor developing nation that was also a hermit kingdom that never engaged in trade of any kind. That'd look like an absolute human rights disaster to the UN, this country that's extremely resource-poor but that also lacks all transparency, has an absolute monarch, and doesn't seem to have any means or desire to obtain resources beyond its borders. North Korea kind of poo poo. Meanwhile, in Civil War, there's a Wakandan presence in Nigeria and King T'Chaka is a seemingly well-liked figure at the UN. One who's not treated like he's Kim Jong-un. You'd think the international community would have a ton of hard questions, both for him and for all these Wakandan ex-pats living elsewhere in the world. But it's chill, everyone's real friendly about it. (Even with the explanation that they have super-tech based on a magical metal, it's still confusing. How many Wakandans are there? Does vibranium help with agriculture or medicine to the point they don't need to import or export crops? Do they have enough of other minerals to support whatever their local industries are? How does Wakanda work for the average citizen?)
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Feb 4, 2023 00:13
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Xealot posted:Yes, which doesn't really make sense: the rest of the world knew Wakanda existed, but assumed it was an incredibly poor developing nation that was also a hermit kingdom that never engaged in trade of any kind. That'd look like an absolute human rights disaster to the UN, this country that's extremely resource-poor but that also lacks all transparency, has an absolute monarch, and doesn't seem to have any means or desire to obtain resources beyond its borders. North Korea kind of poo poo. I mean, yeah, it's BS, but so is pretty much everything else about the MCU in terms of realism. For my part I'm assuming that the facade of Wakanda is that it can feed itself but somehow doesn't have anything worth trading or conquering for. At the same time, unlike North Korea, Wakanda isn't threatening other places or kidnapping people.
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Feb 4, 2023 00:33
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Yeah and no one is fleeing Wakanda to adjacent countries with any horror stories, unlike North Korea. Everyone probably thought of them as being like the Amish more than a dystopia.
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Feb 4, 2023 00:37
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Xealot posted:Yes, which doesn't really make sense: the rest of the world knew Wakanda existed, but assumed it was an incredibly poor developing nation that was also a hermit kingdom that never engaged in trade of any kind. That'd look like an absolute human rights disaster to the UN, this country that's extremely resource-poor but that also lacks all transparency, has an absolute monarch, and doesn't seem to have any means or desire to obtain resources beyond its borders. North Korea kind of poo poo. In the real world slave states can host international sports event and Nicki Minaj poses for pictures with a dictator's daughter. Everybody is real chill with human rights disasters in the real world too. I liked the movie, partly because Shuri is arguably just as much of a villain that Namor is. The only part that felt out of place was the sideplot with the feds. It felt like Marvel panicked when they realized there weren't any white people in the movie and shoehorned them in.
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Feb 4, 2023 11:22
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Another movie ruined by being incredibly dark lighting wise. People are going to say "blah blah blah it's your TV lol" but when I'm streaming from the Disney+ app to my iPad Pro there's no option to get the non-HDR version and this is consistently happening with Disney+ and HBO Max streams so at some point the blame falls on the apps not my loving monitor. The movie was just ok. Kinda boring and I wouldn't pay to watch it. I felt like they could have removed Riri/the ironman-wannabe character and the movie wouldn't have been any worse. Maybe even better with some of the scenes trimmed making for a shorter movie. Like I distinctly remember a scene when Wakanda was being invaded and the Queen was staring at a monitor and Riri came up and asked if she could help, and the Queen said "yes take this second monitor." Except, all the text on it was written in Wakandan and Riri had never ever interacted with that software before but she expertly took control of the screen and started moving stuff around with her hands like she was helping. The whole situation reminded me of a scene in CSI or whatever where 2 of the protagonists hopped on the same keyboard to outhack a hacker. You probably know the scene I'm talking about. Every time they said "Riri" my mind was transported back to early 2010s nerd culture when people called each other "re re". I'm super disappointed at just how godawaful bad and non-existent Wakanda's defense is. They just got overrun. Where's the most powerful nation in the world's armies? Technology? Drones? Intelligence? e: I have no idea who that CIA director is suppose to be but she seems like she's suppose to be important, and the streak of dyed hair especially makes me think it's a tell for "this be a future villain." Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Feb 4, 2023 |
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Feb 4, 2023 16:55
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Boris Galerkin posted:e: I have no idea who that CIA director is suppose to be but she seems like she's suppose to be important, and the streak of dyed hair especially makes me think it's a tell for "this be a future villain." She turned up in The Falcon & the Winter Soldier and at the end of Black Widow. She’s putting together the Thunderbolts, basically a ‘Dark Avengers’
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Feb 4, 2023 17:12
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Everyone posted:I mean, yeah, it's BS, but so is pretty much everything else about the MCU in terms of realism. In Black Panther 1 I thought they did mention that Wakanda is known for some sick textile work and some other thing they export.
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Feb 4, 2023 17:31
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Boris Galerkin posted:Another movie ruined by being incredibly dark lighting wise. People are going to say "blah blah blah it's your TV lol" but when I'm streaming from the Disney+ app to my iPad Pro there's no option to get the non-HDR version and this is consistently happening with Disney+ and HBO Max streams so at some point the blame falls on the apps not my loving monitor. weird, i watched the 1080p disney stream on a 1080 tv and had no brightness issues. could be a full vs limited issue: https://referencehometheater.com/2014/commentary/rgb-full-vs-limited/
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Feb 4, 2023 17:36
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People were complaining about the darkness in theaters so it’s probably just the movie. I remember some scenes being a little dark like the initial Namor reveal.
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Feb 4, 2023 17:45
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The_Doctor posted:She turned up in The Falcon & the Winter Soldier and at the end of Black Widow. She’s putting together the Thunderbolts, basically a ‘Dark Avengers’ The Thunderbolts aren't the Dark Avengers, they're the Thunderbolts. They've been around for 25 years dammit 
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Feb 4, 2023 17:47
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The_Doctor posted:She turned up in The Falcon & the Winter Soldier and at the end of Black Widow. She’s putting together the Thunderbolts, basically a ‘Dark Avengers’ Dark as in "evil" or dark as in "black ops?" Or I suppose "yes" could answer both as well lol.
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Feb 4, 2023 17:48
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Boris Galerkin posted:Dark as in "evil" or dark as in "black ops?" Or I suppose "yes" could answer both as well lol. Thunderbolts were originally a team of supervillains pretending to be superheroes cause all the main Avenger types were off on another planet (it was a whole thing). They've more commonly been a team of supervillains pressed into military service by coercion or plea bargaining. They're Marvel's Suicide Squad basically
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Feb 4, 2023 17:51
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When he walks out of the water in a night scene? It looked good here, he's lit, they are both lit on the beach watching him. Even the underwater stuff looked decent. I could see if you were in a theater where it was projected darker than intended, those scenes in the cave "jail" where everything is basically all tonally the same hue wise might be a whole mess. This usually drives me nuts, solo was the biggest offender for me, but I think this one is down to something in dudes display chain. Was it still dark when you send the stream to a tv? The namor cgi also looked way better in that first nighttime helicopter attack sequence, less so when he runs up on them in broad daylight.
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Feb 4, 2023 17:52
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I also had some darkness issues with the underwater stuff that it wasn’t visible in other marvel (and non-marvel) movies on the same screen.
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Feb 4, 2023 19:36
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Rarity posted:Thunderbolts were originally a team of supervillains pretending to be superheroes cause all the main Avenger types were off on another planet (it was a whole thing). They've more commonly been a team of supervillains pressed into military service by coercion or plea bargaining. They're Marvel's Suicide Squad basically
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Feb 4, 2023 20:07
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Neo Rasa posted:In Black Panther 1 I thought they did mention that Wakanda is known for some sick textile work and some other thing they export. I honestly don't remember but still "They make really pretty blankets" isn't on the same "desirability scale" as "They have gold/diamonds/uranium/oil/some-kind-of-supermetal."
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Feb 5, 2023 01:34
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We finally watched Wakanda Forever and on the one hand, overall I liked it but like, it really was a solid half hour too long. EVERY Martin Freeman/Orochi Elaine/CIA/SEAL whatever scene didn't need to exist besides the failed vibranium heist and Namor messing up the vibranium detection team. I sort of liked the way they explained what Nakia was up to and why, but it was frustrating to have her character so sidelined. I would have much rather her become the new Black Panther than Shuri. Or even as someone suggested having it be something Shuri, Nakia, M'Baku, etc. all use when needed. Namor and all the Talokan stuff was cool. Generally all the stuff involving Wakanda and Talokan folks interacting with each other was good, good use of Michael B. Jordan. I liked that we got to see more of Wakanda in general. I didn't even hate the action as much in this one though the bloodlessness of PG-13 definitely hurt it when there's so many spear stabbings throughout especially that one towards the end lol. It was the typical CG not a lot of weight kind of stuff overall but there's fun moments and nothing as bad as the worst stuff in like Black Widow or whatever. The movie was a bit frustrating because there is some good poo poo in there and the cast does carry a lot of it but it's very bloated, and I wasn't really feeling Shuri as the Black Panther, maybe if she had that meeting with Nakia and her kid earlier on then sure. Invalid Validation posted:People were complaining about the darkness in theaters so it’s probably just the movie. I remember some scenes being a little dark like the initial Namor reveal. The rest of the flick looked fine to me though. It was kind of an odd choice when Namor makes such a big todo about how he brought the sun to his people. Speaking of which I'm mega out of the loop on comic stuff is the reason he gives for his name being Namor from the comics or something they wrote for the movie?
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Feb 5, 2023 21:29
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Neo Rasa posted:It was kind of an odd choice when Namor makes such a big todo about how he brought the sun to his people. Consider what Queen Ramonda and Shuri were doing at night (by theater-dimmed moonlight), and what Shuri does by daylight at the end of the movie, then circle back to Namor living with centuries' worth of history. I think there's a difference in ways to handle grief there, which is a running thesis in the movie.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:04
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What does roger ebert think of the MCU? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iT8t-euxas
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Feb 7, 2023 23:22
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