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OldSenileGuy posted:I really like Crystal Skull. It's obviously the worst of the first four, but it has a certain goofy charm to it and I feel like there's a mildly better movie hidden in there. The actual "nuke the fridge" bit is deeply silly because surviving a nuke in a fridge, but the lead-up to it is pretty baller. Just Indy walking around this little fake suburb and slowly grokking that THAT IS A BAD PLACE TO BE RIGHT NOW.
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Jan 21, 2023 14:50
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Just having the fridge land in a shallow lake or something to absorb the impact would have made suspension of disbelief that bit easier. But no, it hits solid ground at like 100mph (it was going way faster than the Russians' car, and they were booking) and bounces violently along it before stopping. Indiana Jones and the Months in Traction. M:I5 and F&F7 both had people flipping over and over a ridiculous number of times without a scratch too. Seems to be one of my bugbears.
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Jan 21, 2023 15:51
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I’ve always disliked the way we’re introduced to Crystal Skull. In previous installments, the year is shown and that’s that (I.e. Last Crusade being 1912 and 1938). Don’t need anything more to go by. In Crystal Skull, it beats you over the head with a cartoon mallet and continuously nudges you in the ribs while going “Eehhh? Eeeeeeeehhhhh?” to establish that, yes, it is in fact 1957, what with the 1950s hot rod full of 1950s college kids listening to 1950s Elvis Presley singing his 1950s hit “Hound Dog” while dragging with 1950s Cold War Soviets in their 1950s Ford as they pass a 1950s atomic cafe. The only things missing from the intro were a way to throw in Eisenhower as the president and a 1950s TV show reference, and those come later with Indy saying “I like Ike.” and Howdy Doody playing on TV in the fake town. That poo poo just reeks of Boomer nostalgia pandering and it was dumb as hell, but apparently people love the intro? I’m probably alone with this opinion. I will say that I did like the use of the old Paramount logo before it morphed into the prairie dog mound (with the stupid CGI prairie dog), and the Soviet grunt having a little joyous moment dragging with the kids 
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Jan 21, 2023 16:37
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I just love these god drat movies, and even Crystal Skull is pretty good. I hope the new one is good, too.
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Jan 21, 2023 18:03
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You Are A Elf posted:That poo poo just reeks of Boomer nostalgia pandering and it was dumb as hell, but apparently people love the intro? I’m probably alone with this opinion. It's laid on a bit thick, but the new time period is sort of the movie's whole "thing" (you could've called the movie "Indiana Jones and the Year of Our Lord 1957") so in that context most people don't mind, I don't think. Once the movie leaves the US it stops being so obnoxious with it.
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Jan 21, 2023 18:57
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Once the movie leaves the US it stops being so obnoxious with it. Oh yeah, definitely. It turns into a classic Indy adventure by then. I really enjoy all the Indy movies thoroughly, even though as an adult I find Temple of Doom not as good as the rest. It really does follow a Die Hard metric! It’s astounding. My rankings of both franchises: 1) Raiders 2) Last Crusade 3) Crystal Skull 4) Temple of Doom 1) Die Hard 2) With A Vengeance 3) Live Free 4) 2 Can’t remember jack poo poo from A Good Day to Die Hard and found it pretty terrible and unremarkable the one time I saw it, so it doesn’t count.
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Jan 21, 2023 21:51
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Temple of Doom owns, no way is it worst than Skull
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Jan 21, 2023 22:41
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Yeah the intro to Temple of Doom in Club Obi Wan is already better than anything in Crystal Skull. The way it's edited, shot and acted creates a lot of tension. I don't recall there ever being a tense moment, or any feeling that there were any real stakes at all, in Crystal Skull. Part of it is the general artificial veneer it has, but it's also the fact Indy stumbles his way through the film inertly in very clean well pressed old man trousers.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:09
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For a long while it was actually Raiders itself that was the outlier for me, I found it just a little too serious and the non-action scenes a little too slow. In some ways I still think so (I think what it is is some lingering 70s sensibility in a concept that needs a full-on commitment to the 80s), but later on especially after Crystal Skull I found Raiders' edginess was an even more important part of that authentic Indy experience.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:51
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:For a long while it was actually Raiders itself that was the outlier for me, I found it just a little too serious and the non-action scenes a little too slow. In some ways I still think so (I think what it is is some lingering 70s sensibility in a concept that needs a full-on commitment to the 80s), but later on especially after Crystal Skull I found Raiders' edginess was an even more important part of that authentic Indy experience. Raiders was also the first movie and had no guarantees that there'd be any sequels/prequels. So it kind of had to establish all aspects of Indy's character. So it's not just the hat and bullwhip. Indiana Jones is also a serious person who is a real professor teaching the serious academic subject of archeology to (at least theoretically) serious students.
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Jan 22, 2023 02:38
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Everyone posted:Raiders was also the first movie and had no guarantees that there'd be any sequels/prequels. So it kind of had to establish all aspects of Indy's character. So it's not just the hat and bullwhip. Indiana Jones is also a serious person who is a real professor teaching the serious academic subject of archeology to (at least theoretically) serious students. Serious students except that one girl deliberately distracting him and the guy who dropped off the apple.
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Jan 22, 2023 02:44
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Meaty Ore posted:Serious students except that one girl deliberately distracting him and the guy who dropped off the apple. Wait do your students not do that.
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Jan 22, 2023 04:01
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Crystal Skull is the least good movie, but the roughly 30-minute stretch in Temple of Doom from the time Indy & Co land in the village up to the spike room is probably the dullest stretch in any Indy movie. Just 30 minutes of exposition and Willie Scott whining with a couple nice Indy/Short Round moments thrown in there
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Jan 22, 2023 04:21
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OldSenileGuy posted:- Changed the timing of Indy's dramatic pause on "Sorry kid, looks like you brought a knife to a gunfight" (this always bugged me for some reason) It's cause no one would ever say it like that, and in order to do so you'd either have to be psychic or know that you're in a movie to time it just as the goons pull out their guns, it's borderline fourth-wall breaking. (And talk about your "Get it? GET IT?" moments, this one's the worst) Edit: Gosh, it really is something how there's just all these stupid little things with Crystal Skull that add up to a big "feels too fake" problem. I always find myself saying some variation of "I could almost see that working if they just didn't {something something}" in regards to that movie. SidneyIsTheKiller fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 14:29
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:It's cause no one would ever say it like that, and in order to do so you'd either have to be psychic or know that you're in a movie to time it just as the goons pull out their guns, it's borderline fourth-wall breaking. (And talk about your "Get it? GET IT?" moments, this one's the worst) I think I've identified the specific kind of "too fake." One of the attractions at the California Disneyland Park is Disneyland Resort: Guardians of the Galaxy - Mission Breakout! I have half a wild-rear end guess (it does not rise to the level of a theory, not even an Ancient Astronaut theory) that Indy 4 spent part of its existence as something that was going to be something like that. Like there's points where it almost seems like Ford or another character is going to turn to the audience AKA rideload of dumbass tourists that are somehow along for this ride and go "Wow, that was rough, but hang on tight folks, we're just getting started!"
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Jan 22, 2023 16:33
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I have some issues with Temple but it's way better overall than Crystal Skull. Crystal Skull isn't like a disaster or anything like that, I didn't hate it. But without the slight edginess "this is a rip roarin' adventure movie that could almost be a family flick but also hey enjoy some squibs/gore/whatever slightly more adult stuff out of nowhere" quality it's just not in the same tier as the first three. It's just a little too clean on a lot of levels which I think adds to the amusement park ride feel of it. I only watched it once which is definitely NOT something I can say about he first three lol.
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Jan 22, 2023 17:27
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Hoo boy did I choose the precise wrong time to finally check out the Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny trailer, coming off this Crystal Skull discussion and going right into discovering Indy 5 is a CGI fest with noticeably clean indoor sets and stylized monochromatic lighting in parts. (oh and apparently studios are still modeling trailers on the main one for The Force Awakens, nearly beat for beat. It's been over 7 years now!) Oh well! I was more or less expecting this to feel like a 'Never Say Never Again'-like offshoot anyhow, being so far removed from the rest in both time period and crew involved, so I can just continue looking at it mostly as its own self-contained thing (maybe). On the bright side, from what little we see it looks like an enjoyable enough modern blockbuster, and I'm actually quite impressed just how credible Harrison Ford still looks in the Indy getup. The dude is 80 years old!!!
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Jan 22, 2023 21:39
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Funny enough, I actually picked up a vibe that reminded me of the effects-heavy stylized period piece genre flicks of the late 80s/ early 90s like Who Framed Roger Rabbit , Dick Tracy, or The Rocketeer. Which you could say is... adjacent to the original Indiana Jones series at least!
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Jan 22, 2023 21:50
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I genuinely hadn't heard that the title of the 5th one was "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny" until now. That's just an awful sounding title in a series where all of them have been punchy and iconic.
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Jan 22, 2023 21:59
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Indy: "Hey, Hitler! Don't touch that dial!" [Mecha-Hitler smirks mockingly]
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Jan 23, 2023 00:04
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Shiroc posted:"Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny" is just an awful sounding title in a series where all of them have been punchy and iconic. To be fair, “Temple of Doom” is equally pulpy and silly as a title. “Kingdom of the Crystal Skull” is already much lamer as a title IMHO.
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Jan 23, 2023 03:58
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A Temple of Doom or a Kingdom of the Crystal Skull sound like some wild places where Indy is going to have some adventures. Raiders of the Lost Ark, Raiders are cool, a lost ark is neat, what’s everyone up to? The Last Crusade just outright says a big adventure. ‘Dial of Destiny’ isn’t a phrase that means anything. With the whole space exploration era setting the movie apparently has, it seems like they could have put together something that highlights the adventures instead of the object.
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Jan 23, 2023 06:15
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(Edit: ^^^ lol basically everything above poster just said more succinctly than I did) "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" is a clunky and long title but it grew on me. I can absolutely picture an old pulp adventure paperback with that title, and it sounds appropriately "big" for such a long-awaited sequel. "Dial of Destiny" has some pleasant aliteration but it's easily the least evocative of all the Indy titles. It sounds romantic if anything, like I can see a third 'Romancing the Stone' movie going by that title. The director (forgot his name, sorry; he did 'Ford Vs Ferrari') says explaining the title would give too much away, so with that in mind I think "destiny" is meant to tease us that Indy might die at the end (and I do think it's just a tease). Also, going by the tiny little tidbits that we do know about the plot, I have a gut feeling (longshot totally bonkers conjecture incoming, but potentially massive spoiler) that the "dial" refers to an instrument on a rocket or some type of vessel that ends up taking Indy to the moon SidneyIsTheKiller fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 06:32
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Dial of destiny is gonna be a big ol clock that senda them back in time or some poo poo
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Jan 23, 2023 06:44
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CelticPredator posted:Dial of destiny is gonna be a big ol clock that senda them back in time or some poo poo Yes, we very explicitly know that the movie takes place at least in 1944 and 1969, and Mangold has been playfully coy about any other time periods being in play.
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Jan 23, 2023 07:23
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I seent the leaked bts footage!
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Jan 23, 2023 07:41
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Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny That's a Big Ol' Clock or Some poo poo I Dunno
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Jan 23, 2023 07:54
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Turning a big dial taht says "Destiny" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right.
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Jan 23, 2023 09:37
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CelticPredator posted:Dial of destiny is gonna be a big ol clock that senda them back in time or some poo poo We're gonna get some digitally deaged Harrison Ford, aren't we?
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Jan 23, 2023 16:13
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:It's cause no one would ever say it like that, and in order to do so you'd either have to be psychic or know that you're in a movie to time it just as the goons pull out their guns, it's borderline fourth-wall breaking. (And talk about your "Get it? GET IT?" moments, this one's the worst) I rewatched it a few days ago and there's major early example of this where Indy attempts to swing onto a truck using his whip, but he doesn't quite make it so he swings backwards and crashes through the windshield of the trailing truck instead. Back in the day Ford would've conveyed the comedy of that scene with just his facial expression. He would've crashed into the truck and made a face that said "well that wasn't what I intended but gently caress it, let's make the best of it". Instead, they have him say "drat I thought that was closer" more or less directly to the audience. Takes me right out of the movie.
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Jan 23, 2023 16:47
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I would argue that the actual plotline of Crystal Skull isn't bad. It's entirely possible to make that work - Indiana Jones vs the Greys. I think they would have needed to go more personal and scary and small scale at the end, rather than a big epic UFO thing. They could still fry Spalko's mind with knowledge (a nice, fitting, Indiana Jones death for the main bad guy). Just my opinion. The idea that Crystal Skull is an unmitigated disaster is just not true. There is some pretty good stuff in there. Unfortunately for every one of those there's a couple scenes that I can clearly remember thinking "this isn't working" in mid-scene. I know "nuke the fridge" was the one everyone remembers and yeah it's pretty bad but...it's got a precedent in Temple of Doom. Indy and co. survive certain death by jumping out of plane in a raft...but again, context matters. The raft fall is shown in one continuous shot and honestly looks pretty survivable. The digital fridge is zooming around at 120mph at least and looks like it would turn Jones to jelly on impact. I know that Ford technically did more stunts in Crystal Skull but the fridge scene is illustrative - the lows are way lower and faker and it's a problem. Also, I think that the characters in Crystal Skull really come up short. Between Mutt or Short Round I know who I'd pick. Mac is no Sallah; he's just not interesting and his double-triple-crosses become tiresome. Poor John Hurt is barely more than a plot device. Cate Blanchett is pretty good but I would put her at the bottom of the Belloq, Mola Ram, and the Donovan/Elsa/Vogel (in that order) hierarchy. Marion is a bright spot some of the time but she's not in the movie very much and she suffers, like Jones does, from the weaker writing. With a just-ok main villain, an occasionally obnoxious sidekick, and an unendearing ally the movie becomes a chore. All signs point to Dial of Destiny being pretty poor, I'm sorry to say. I've read the script leaks and the trailer confirmed them; this movie is more digital danger and more mugging and more "they fly now?!??!" modern blockbuster snark. Lower your expectations and hey, even if it reeks we'll always have <your favorite Indiana Jones movie>.
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Jan 23, 2023 18:30
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fishing with the fam posted:We're gonna get some digitally deaged Harrison Ford, aren't we? As as soon as I saw that spoiler I realized this movie's going to be a time travel victory lap like Endgame kind of movie. Where's Shia though lmao
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Jan 23, 2023 18:44
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I would argue that the actual plotline of Crystal Skull isn't bad. It's entirely possible to make that work - Indiana Jones vs the Greys. I think they would have needed to go more personal and scary and small scale at the end, rather than a big epic UFO thing. They could still fry Spalko's mind with knowledge (a nice, fitting, Indiana Jones death for the main bad guy). Just my opinion. I think Blanchett's Spalko almost worked, she's easily one of the best things in that movie, but it's almost entirely on her performance and not on the character. It's just that Cate Blanchett is really good at her job, and if you hand her a pulpy villain she'll play the gently caress out of it no matter what.
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Jan 23, 2023 18:56
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For me personally I think I could drastically improve Crystal Skull by eliminating like 5 or 6 lines of dialogue. Pretty much everything that's meant as a "previously on Indiana Jones..." really blows and instantly takes me out of the movie. Just off the top of my head: 1. In the opener when Indy says to Mac "all those years we spent spying on the Reds, I thought we were friends..." and various other bits of dialogue during that scene. 2. When Indy looks wistfully at the photos of his dad and Marcus. He says "it's been a rough couple of years, first dad, then Marcus..." There's no reason he has to say that, just have him look at the photos and we'll get the idea! 3. When Indy reunites with Marion they have a bunch of similar cringey dialogue where they catch you up on what happened with their relationship.
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Jan 23, 2023 19:04
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I'm gonna need to rewatch Crystal Skull, since I'm going off 15 year old memories and watching a couple Youtube clips...I have a feeling that now I know it's a lesser film, I'll be much more receptive to it. Basebf555 you're really nailing the artlessness of the dialogue. Just let the actors act! Everyone in the cast is a good actor, they can do it.
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Jan 23, 2023 19:12
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"Indy, looks like we can set the Dial of Destiny to go to 1957!" *Harrison Ford turns to the screen* "I don't think we need to revisit that one" *audience hooting and hollering*
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Jan 23, 2023 19:14
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fishing with the fam posted:We're gonna get some digitally deaged Harrison Ford, aren't we? Well, yeah. Did you watch the trailer?
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Jan 23, 2023 20:11
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Xiahou Dun posted:I think Blanchett's Spalko almost worked, she's easily one of the best things in that movie, but it's almost entirely on her performance and not on the character. It's just that Cate Blanchett is really good at her job, and if you hand her a pulpy villain she'll play the gently caress out of it no matter what. One of my favorite bad movie accents, for sure. Her Australian comes through A LOT. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I would argue that the actual plotline of Crystal Skull isn't bad. It's entirely possible to make that work - Indiana Jones vs the Greys. I think they would have needed to go more personal and scary and small scale at the end, rather than a big epic UFO thing. They could still fry Spalko's mind with knowledge (a nice, fitting, Indiana Jones death for the main bad guy). Just my opinion. My issue is that nothing about the structure or tension of the movie quite lands. Firstly, the "reveal" that it's aliens happens in the first warehouse sequence. It's part of the plot from the outset, Roswell happened, etc. Then they reveal it again, later, when John Hurt holds up the skull to some mural in Akator. There's even a big musical swell...and yeah, we know, we've been watching the movie! Then there's this thru-line that knowledge and respect for history is a scarce, valuable thing. Mutt doesn't want to go to school, doesn't value knowledge. Indy is personally forgotten to history (Henry Sr is dead, Marcus is dead, Indy is estranged from Marion, nobody cares who he is/was) and lacks knowledge of the family he had all along (Mutt is his son, Marion still loves him, etc.) Those are his personal stakes. Meanwhile, the A-plot is to uncover this secret history about ancient aliens, who were explicitly interested in preserving history and imparting knowledge on ancient humans. "They were archaeologists. Knowledge was their treasure." That's all fine, that all works ok. But the villains Indy is set against are kind of on the same page. Irina Spalko is obsessed with knowledge, wants to learn the forgotten history. She actually deeply reveres the aliens, and wants badly to know as much as she can about them. She doesn't give a poo poo about treasure. She's a Soviet Communist, so she could easily be characterized as an iconoclast who *doesn't* value history, or who doesn't give a poo poo about who or what the aliens were beyond the power she can exploit. But that's not really her deal. She asks for knowledge, which is what the aliens are all about, and gets her eyes fried out like that's some just punishment for her hubris or whatever. (There's even that line from Indy, "Oh, I believe, sister! That's why I'm down here," as if being humble before their power was a theme prior to that exact moment.) It's just a thematically messy movie.
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Jan 23, 2023 20:42
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Basebf555 posted:
Yeah but that scene gives us one of the best lines in the movie. They all had one thing wrong - they weren’t you, honey. *cut to Marion with a big goofy grin on her face*
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Jan 24, 2023 07:08
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:All signs point to Dial of Destiny being pretty poor, I'm sorry to say. I've read the script leaks and the trailer confirmed them; this movie is more digital danger and more mugging and more "they fly now?!??!" modern blockbuster snark. Lower your expectations and hey, even if it reeks we'll always have <your favorite Indiana Jones movie>. I'd be careful here, I don't think there actually have been any genuine specific plot leaks, and there's a LOT of bullshit going around from people trying to make this the next culture wars thing (my freakin' DAD came up to me asking if Indy is secretly being replaced by a young female whipper-snapper like he heard on the radio - funny enough, he actually seemed to like that idea). What's out there is mostly a lot of conjecture that gets molded into shape as more official details come in and the one or two people online that may actually know anything give us a "hot or cold" signal. Basically what we know of the plot is that the macguffin is of Greek origin, involves astronomy, is of interest to an ex-Nazi rocket scientist working with NASA, and the whole thing involves Indy's goddaughter and a previous encounter Indy had with Nazis in 1944 that by all accounts is a flashback. The idea that there's an element of time travel persists as it makes a plausible fit for the villain's ultimate goal and nothing's really come out that debunks it, but there's nothing that suggests we're getting an out-and-out "time travel story." SidneyIsTheKiller fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 11:13
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